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Jews

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: General
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: General Discussion
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12679
Printed Date: 25 November 2014 at 2:11pm


Topic: Jews
Posted By: JihadX
Subject: Jews
Date Posted: 22 June 2008 at 8:05pm
Asalaamu Alaikum!
Can anyone explain the connection between jews and islam, if there is any connection. Also, why are Jews being discriminated against? I don't get it!!



Replies:
Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 22 June 2008 at 9:10pm
JihadX
 
If I may answer your question the connection between Judaism and Islam starts at the basic level of monotheism. both believe in the Abrahamic God. Both believe that Abraham known as Al-Hanif in Islam is the one who turned away from polytheism towards monotheism. You can say Abraham is the founding father of a structured monotheistic faith. Islam, like Judaism also acknowledges that God transcends physical reality, that is, is an immaterial being with no form or is composed of any material substance. Islam like Judaism believes in structured laws to guide the community and these laws operates on spiritual morality such as doing right and forbidding wrong etc.
 
You also asked "Why are the Jews being discriminated against?" this is an ambiguous question because you have not highlighted who the oppressor is. Assuming you must be referring to the Palestinian/Israeli situation I am inclined to say that this situation involved both protagonist and antagonists on both sides. Yes there are Jews who are being discriminated against but there are Jews who discriminate themselves it depends what you are talking about.


Posted By: JihadX
Date Posted: 22 June 2008 at 9:33pm
For exaple,with  Hitler and The Holocaust. I've always wondered why the Jews were chosen to be primary victims of the holocaust. To me they seem like average people.

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“The knife that slaughtered the guards at Bagram and set us free is now on its way to other places,”
_ The Mujahid, The Eminent, Sheikh Abu Yahya Al Libi


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 23 June 2008 at 8:10am
Your second part of question - Discrmination against --- Its unclear
 
Here are some more details that shall help you understand Jews and Islam { connection }  better. It is from Quran and hadith. On the whole - its a fact
 
The Children of Israel remained on the straight path for a period of time after Moses. They then innovated in the religion and some of them even worshipped the idols. Yet, there were always Prophets sent among them who would command them to work righteous deeds, refrain from doing evil and who would rule them according to the commands of the Torah. When they (Israelites) committed the evil that they committed, Allah caused their enemies to overwhelm them, and many fatalities fell among them as a consequence. Their enemies also captured a great number of them, and took over large areas of their land. Earlier, anyone who would fight the Israelites would lose, because they had the Torah and the Tabut, which they inherited generation after generation ever since the time of Moses, who spoke to Allah directly. Yet, the Israelites kept indulging in misguidance until some king took the Tabut from them during a battle. That king also took possession of the Torah, and only a few of the Israelites who memorized it remained.
 
The prophethood halted among their various tribes and only a pregnant woman remained of the offspring of Lavi (Levi), in whom the prophethood still appeared. Her husband had been killed, so the Israelites kept her in a house so that Allah may give her a boy, who would be their Prophet. The woman also kept invoking Allah to grant her a boy. Allah heard her pleas and gave her a boy whom she called `Shamwil' meaning `Allah has heard my pleas.' Some people said that the boy's name was Sham`un (Simeon), which also has a similar meaning.

As that boy grew, Allah raised him to be a righteous person. When he reached the age of prophethood, Allah revealed to him and commanded him to call (his people) to Him and to His Tawhid (Oneness). Shamwil called the Children of Israel (to Allah) and they asked him to appoint a king over them so that they could fight their enemies under his command. The kingship had also ended among them. Their Prophet said to them, "What if Allah appoints a king over you, would you fulfill your vow to fight under his command''

They said, "Why should we not fight in Allah's way while we have been driven out of our homes and our children'  But when fighting was ordered for them, they turned away, all except a few of them. And Allah is All-Aware of the wrongdoers".
 
"And their Prophet said to them: "Verily! The sign of His kingdom is that there shall come to you At-Tabut, wherein is Sakinah (peace and reassurance) from your Lord and a remnant of that which Musa (Moses) and Harun (Aaron) left behind, carried by the angels. Verily, in this is a sign for you if you are indeed believers"
 
Ibn Jurayj stated that Ibn `Abbas said, "The angels came down while carrying the Tabut between the sky and the earth, until they placed it before Talut while the people were watching.'' As-Suddi said, "The Tabut was brought to Talut's house, so the people believed in the prophethood of Sham`un (Simeon) and obeyed Talut''.
 
Then it was followed by marching there armies and there was a trial from Allah swt --- then comes the prophethood of  Dawud AS. You can read it in detail in the very second chapter and  its verses are from 240s.--
Yes the main difference that arose was the covenant which Allah took from them in the Tawrah,  that, He will send a great Prophet - meaning Muhammad - from among the offspring of Isma`il, who will be obeyed by all peoples. 
 
 They used to say, `O Allah! Send the Prophet that we read about - in the Tawrah - so that we can torment and kill the disbelievers alongside him.' When Allah sent Muhammad and they saw that he was not one of them, they rejected him and envied the Arabs, even though they knew that he was the Messenger of Allah. So , Allah said
 
"Then when there came to them that which they had recognized, they disbelieved in it. So let the curse of Allah be on the disbelievers".
 
Hope brother, you got an idea of Jews and there "connection"  to Islam. May Allah swt help you to understand the truth and accept it.  If its still unclear, you can ask us any of your doubts. InshaAllah, shall try to clear them
 
 


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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: JihadX
Date Posted: 23 June 2008 at 10:43am
shukran. it helped me understand so much.

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“The knife that slaughtered the guards at Bagram and set us free is now on its way to other places,”
_ The Mujahid, The Eminent, Sheikh Abu Yahya Al Libi


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 23 June 2008 at 11:20pm
Originally posted by JihadX

For exaple,with  Hitler and The Holocaust. I've always wondered why the Jews were chosen to be primary victims of the holocaust. To me they seem like average people.

 You are I reckon be a senior in HS and you have asked a $64000 question that not very many will like to investigate particularly in the US. The version that is generally known and taught is the Zionist produced.
There are two types of Jews Sephardics (original descendent's of the Prophet Yakoob or Jacob who was son of Isaac and nephew of Ishmael -and two of his twelve sons-- 10 tribes were lost in the Diasporas and Ashkenazis the Europeans from Khazaris converted blood lines!
It were the Sephardic Jews who had settled in Arabia and came to be discussed in Quran and gave some trouble to Muslims and Prophet Muhammad(saw).

There are three sources for trouble between men -- money, women and or land. the Jews get into trouble cuz they are the money changers to the world. They abandoned the cause of Allah and hereafter and bartered for the money and material. They were enslaved by the Pharaohs and when they were freed by Moses but after many trial and tribulations they took over the path of pharaohs and now they are trying to enslave the world. Right now the western world is under their control through the central banking, stock and commodity trade exchanges, media, press, Law and politics worldwide gambling, Hollywood films, San Fernando Valley smut through Google marketing control and what have you. Th list is endless you can add prostitution, slave trade, weapons and drugs. It was this aspect that got them into trouble with Nazis. You have to give them one credit that Allah gave them great mind for sure for dawah work that they end up using for the wordly things instead!
It is summer break I guess you might have time to read another view beside the Zionist view, so here the link you may like to go to:

http://www.iamthewitness.com/ - The French Connection

I hope I haven't put you in a info overload mode!


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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 24 June 2008 at 12:37pm
JihadX:
I reckon you have studied some European history!
Here is an article about the onset of so called Holocaust!
June 20, 2008
Was the Holocaust Inevitable?
by Patrick J. Buchanan

"What Would Winston Do?"

So asks Newsweek's cover, which features a full-length photo of the prime minister his people voted the greatest Briton of them all.

Quite a tribute, when one realizes Churchill's career coincides with the collapse of the British empire and the fall of his nation from world pre-eminence to third-rate power.

That the Newsweek cover was sparked by my book http://www.amazon.com/Churchill-Hitler-Unnecessary-War-Britain/dp/030740515X/antiwarbookstore - Churchill, Hitler and The Unnecessary War seems apparent, as one of the three essays, by Christopher Hitchens, was a scathing review. Though in places complimentary, Hitchens charmingly concludes: This book "stinks."

Understandable. No Brit can easily concede my central thesis: The Brits kicked away their empire. Through colossal blunders, Britain twice declared war on a Germany that had not attacked her and did not want war with her, fought for 10 bloody years and lost it all.

Unable to face the truth, Hitchens seeks solace in old myths.

We had to stop Prussian militarism in 1914, says Hitchens. "The Kaiser's policy shows that Germany was looking for a chance for war all over the globe."

Nonsense. If the Kaiser were looking for a war he would have found it. But in 1914, he had been in power for 25 years, was deep into middle age but had never fought a war nor seen a battle.

From Waterloo to World War I, Prussia fought three wars, all in one seven-year period, 1864 to 1871. Out of these wars, she acquired two duchies, Schleswig and Holstein, and two provinces, Alsace and Lorraine. By 1914, Germany had not fought a war in two generations.

Does that sound like a nation out to conquer the world?

As for the Kaiser's bellicose support for the Boers, his igniting the Agadir crisis in 1905, his building of a great fleet, his seeking of colonies in Africa, he was only aping the British, whose approbation and friendship he desperately sought all his life and was ever denied.

In every crisis the Kaiser blundered into, including his foolish "blank cheque" to Austria after Serb assassins murdered the heir to the Austrian throne, the Kaiser backed down or was trying to back away when war erupted.

Even Churchill, who before 1914 was charging the Kaiser with seeking "the dominion of the world," conceded, "History should ... acquit William II of having plotted and planned the World War."

What of World War II? Surely, it was necessary to declare war to stop Adolf Hitler from conquering the world and conducting the Holocaust.

Yet consider. Before Britain declared war on him, Hitler never demanded return of any lands lost at Versailles to the West. Northern Schleswig had gone to Denmark in 1919, Eupen and Malmedy had gone to Belgium, Alsace and Lorraine to France.

Why did Hitler not demand these lands back? Because he sought an alliance, or at least friendship, with Great Britain and knew any move on France would mean war with Britain -- a war he never wanted.

If Hitler were out to conquer the world, why did he not build a great fleet? Why did he not demand the French fleet when France surrendered? Germany had to give up its High Seas Fleet in 1918.

Why did he build his own Maginot Line, the Westwall, in the Rhineland, if he meant all along to invade France?

If he wanted war with the West, why did he offer peace after Poland and offer to end the war, again, after Dunkirk?

That Hitler was a rabid anti-Semite is undeniable. Mein Kampf is saturated in anti-Semitism. The Nuremberg Laws confirm it. But for the six years before Britain declared war, there was no Holocaust, and for two years after the war began, there was no Holocaust.

Not until midwinter 1942 was the Wannsee Conference held, where the Final Solution was on the table.

That conference was not convened until Hitler had been halted in Russia, was at war with America and sensed doom was inevitable. Then the trains began to roll.

And why did Hitler invade Russia? This writer quotes Hitler 10 times as saying that only by knocking out Russia could he convince Britain it could not win and must end the war.

Hitchens mocks this view, invoking the Hitler-madman theory.

"Could we have a better definition of derangement and megalomania than the case of a dictator who overrules his own generals and invades Russia in wintertime ... ?"

Christopher, Hitler invaded Russia on June 22.

The Holocaust was not a cause of the war, but a consequence of the war. No war, no Holocaust.

Britain went to war with Germany to save Poland. She did not save Poland. She did lose the empire. And Josef Stalin, whose victims outnumbered those of Hitler 1,000 to one as of September 1939, and who joined Hitler in the rape of Poland, wound up with all of Poland, and all the Christian nations from the Urals to the Elbe.

The British Empire fought, bled and died, and made Eastern and Central Europe safe for Stalinism. No wonder Winston Churchill was so melancholy in old age. No wonder Christopher rails against the book. As T.S. Eliot observed, "Mankind cannot bear much reality."





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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: JihadX
Date Posted: 24 June 2008 at 1:54pm
shukran! i now understand more about Judaism.

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“The knife that slaughtered the guards at Bagram and set us free is now on its way to other places,”
_ The Mujahid, The Eminent, Sheikh Abu Yahya Al Libi


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 24 June 2008 at 10:12pm
As'Salamu Alaikum
 
Brother, {Sign reader}, for me its an overload. - European History Confused


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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: JihadX
Date Posted: 25 June 2008 at 4:07pm
yeah..last thing. is it anything that i can say to a jew as a greeting when i see them??

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“The knife that slaughtered the guards at Bagram and set us free is now on its way to other places,”
_ The Mujahid, The Eminent, Sheikh Abu Yahya Al Libi


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 25 June 2008 at 8:18pm
Originally posted by JihadX

yeah..last thing. is it anything that i can say to a jew as a greeting when i see them??

Just a normal American Hi, Hello how are you etc
That is what I do with my neighbor!
But think through each statement you make!


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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 26 June 2008 at 7:48am
Sign Reader:
 
I am amazed and appalled that you are actually calling jews money grubbers and are quoting Pat Buchanon. 
 
Pat Buchanon is a known racist who hates all non-whites:
 
"In 1992, he said: "if we had to take a million immigrants in, say http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zulus - Zulus , next year, or Englishmen, and put them in Virginia, what group would be easier to assimilate and would cause less problems for the people of Virginia?" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_J._Buchanan#cite_note-77 - [78] He says an open Mexican border invites the drug trade, which he does not consider a victimless crime. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_J._Buchanan#cite_note-78 - [79] In Where the Right Went Wrong he claimed "the Communist Chinese government has the secret loyalty of millions of 'overseas Chinese' from Singapore to San Francisco." He opposes Muslim immigration to the United States and Europe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_J._Buchanan#cite_note-79 - [80]

Buchanan has vocally criticized large-scale immigration, both legal and illegal, especially coming across the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican - Mexican border. He supports increased border security and opposed President Bush's guest worker program (which he labeled amnesty) for illegal immigrants. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_J._Buchanan#cite_note-80 - [81]

He states many left-wing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican-American - Mexican-Americans have a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revanchist - revanchist view on territories lost to the United States in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican-American_War - Mexican-American War . He declares their high birthrates threaten the social cohesion of certain parts of the country. In http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Emergency_%28book%29 - State of Emergency , he warned that the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwestern_United_States - American Southwest could "become a giant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo - Kosovo ", still part of the United States, but Mexican in "language, ethnicity, history and culture."

Buchanan says immigration poses a security risk and porous borders is making America vulnerable to a terrorist attack. 

In a 2002 speech, he said, "In the next 50 years, the Third World will grow by the equivalent of 30 to 40 new Mexicos. If you go to the end of the century, the white and European population is down to about three percent. This is what I call the death of the West. I see the nations dying when the populations die. I see the civilization dying. It is under attack in our own countries, from our own people." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_J._Buchanan#cite_note-81 - [82] Buchanan's book http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_the_West - The Death of the West deplores the decline in non-Hispanic whites and argues no nations have held together without an ethnic majority. Buchanan believes if immigration and birth rate trends continue, young Americans((in that case http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_Y - Generation Y will spend their golden years in a "third world America", which will reduce the nation to a conglomeration of peoples with nothing in common. He believes this can be credited to the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1965_Immigration_Act - 1965 Immigration Act and the cultural revolution of the 1960s. He notes past immigration was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe - European , while 90 percent of new legal immigrants are http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_people - Asian , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African - African , and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_American - Latin American and they are not "melting and reforming." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_J._Buchanan#cite_note-82 - [83]

In State of Emergency, he writes, "Any man or any woman, of any color or creed, can be a good American. We know that from our history. But when it comes to the ability to assimilate into a nation like the United States, all nationalities, creeds, and cultures are not equal. To say that is ideology speaking, not judgment born out of experience." During an interview promoting the book, Buchanan said he did not prefer only white immigrants, yet lamented changes in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States - demographics of the United States . "I'd like the country I grew up in. It was a good country. I lived in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington%2C_D.C. - Washington, D.C. , – 400,000 black folks, 400,000 white folks, in a country 89 or 90 percent white. I like that country".

And saying that Jews are guilty for their fate in the holocaust because of their handling of money is as bad as saying that all Muslims are terrorists so they deserve having their countries attacked and being killed and oppressed.   
 


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“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 26 June 2008 at 7:51am
Originally posted by JihadX

yeah..last thing. is it anything that i can say to a jew as a greeting when i see them??
 
Tell them hello and wish them peace in your heart, just as you would wish for any human being and creation of Allah.  


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“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 26 June 2008 at 6:52pm
Shasta's Aunt:
Where did I say Jews are money grubbers? 
They create it, they control it and let the rest do the grubbing partLOL
Do you have any idea how the Feds system is set up and who runs it?
Once you know this you will be really appalled!
My reference would be toward the Zionists!
This copy from Wiki offers no scholarship one way or the other!
I will take any one who tells the truth the way it is instead of beating about the bush!

What Pat says you need to rebut his points than just saying being racist! Also you need to provide a factual argument! I think he is one politician who tells the way it is! that is why he is not in the office!
About the Muslim situation it all depends upon who says" all Muslims are terrorists so they deserve having their countries attacked and being killed and oppressed"  It is said and done; great fear of label is past and it is in the open and attacking the Muslim country is not a 'no cost' phenomena that it used to be! It good that they are being attacked to precipitate the who is who in the neo colonies! What difference does it make by the terrorist label any more?
A major part of the world knows who the real terrorists are! Now even a blind person can see the folly of making such rhetoric and cost associated with it. The Zionist are riding this bull to it's demise!
Can't you see what is happening to homeowners in the all the western countries they are paying through the nose due to the sub prime heist and fiasco, the motorist at the pump, moms at the supermarkets shelling extra  for no added value they are getting for Zionist having forced US&UK attacking the Muslim countries? They tried to please the Zionist Jews the practicing racist in the world-- Israelis, the  only country created by and sustained with terrorism ! Look at the groveling of Obama and McCain at the AIPAC audience!

I think I should stop here, I need a cup of hot tea!
Peace
PS I do have a favorite Jew though you might like to know, Dr Laura S







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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 26 June 2008 at 8:10pm

No, I don't have to rebut Pat Buchanon's points. They are ridiculous and backward and not worth rebuttal.

What I would like to do is to keep a new Muslim from believing that all Muslims hate Jews because Jews and Christians are just like Muslims. Some are bad, some are good, and each individual should be judged based on their deeds.



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“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: JihadX
Date Posted: 26 June 2008 at 10:06pm
i agree! However, i don't think that christians in America are loyal to their religion.

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“The knife that slaughtered the guards at Bagram and set us free is now on its way to other places,”
_ The Mujahid, The Eminent, Sheikh Abu Yahya Al Libi


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 26 June 2008 at 11:37pm

Adam Sandler's Shameful Film

You Don't Mess With the Racism!

I love Adam Sandler. From Billy Madison to Happy Gilmore to the Chanukah Song, the predecessor of the Superbad generation has effortlessly conquered the domain of slapstick comedy and inappropriate jokes. But damn you Scuba Steve! If you’re going to propagate misinformation about the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, do it quietly—or at least in your non-comedic life.

You Don’t Mess With the Zohan, Sandler’s new flick, takes Hollywood chicanery and stereotypes that denigrate Arabs to an unprecedented level—surpassing hit flicks like the Kingdom, the Siege, and every Arnold Schwarzenegger and Chuck Norris movie that came before it. I group Zohan with other shamelessly racist action movies because a film should at least be minutely funny to be categorized as a comedy. For the Sandler diehards and hilarity-loving skeptics, I should clearly state: using race and prejudices to engender laughter is not the problem. Mel Brooks and the creators of South Park exploit stereotypes far beyond anything Sandler has ever done, but unlike Zohan, I don’t think insidious propaganda and underlying racism drive their comedy. After all, if this hebetudinous clunker was just comedy, Sandler and company wouldn’t have, as the New York Times reported, sought out Arab actors to give the movie “legitimacy.” Their search was successful and a few token Arabs showed their presence to innocuously inform the public that it is okay to vilify the crazy towel-headed terrorists once again.

What makes this movie even worse than many of the unfavorable movies made post-9/11 is Zohan’s disarming presentation; it is a comedic approach to understanding the inner workings of the substandard Arab people. Like the job stealing Mexicans, the liquor store robbing Blacks, and the HIV infested gays, negative stereotypes in Zohan strip down the Arab people to RPG wielding animals that senselessly thirst for Jewish blood. 

From the start of the film, Sandler’s character, Zohan, is positioned as the altruistic hero—an Israeli Mossad agent who reluctantly kills Palestinian “terrorists,” while forgoing his real dream: to cut hair in the US for Paul Mitchell. Zohan is “brave,” “lovable,” and “funny,” and even his stereotypical chauvinism is eaten up by women (and men) throughout the movie—including his eventual Palestinian love interest, Dalia.

Compounded with played out, corny penis gags, the Israeli narrative is interwoven into the fabric of the film, including propagandistic reminiscences by Zohan’s father who recalls the oft-repeated myth of being surrounded “on all sides” by powerful enemies during the Six Day War—a war in which Israel preemptively struck and dominated those “enemies.” In line with Israeli and Western intelligence, Israel won the war in six days (and five hours, as Zohan’s father dutifully reminds us)—so much for existential threats and heroic narratives. Other historical revisions include a reference in a verbal battle between a Palestinian and Israeli shop owner, in which the Palestinian proclaimed, “Give it up, like you gave up the Gaza Strip!” This biting taunt, while not as blatant as the common stereotype, infers that Israel “gave up” the Gaza Strip and further insinuates that Israel had claim to it. The “humorous” jeer glosses over the glaring reality: Israel still occupies Gaza’s borders, airspace, imports and exports, and has economically strangulated and suffocated 1.4 million Palestinians in the world’s largest open-air prison.

But rewriting history (and regurgitating jokes from 1996) is hardly the movie’s worst crime. The portrayal of Palestinians as ugly, dirty, incompetent, st**id, goat loving terrorists was jammed down the viewer’s throat more times than Zohan’s lame hummus jokes. It becomes obvious to the audience why these good looking, suave, kindhearted Israelis have to kill these evil Palestinian “terrorists”—because they hate Jews more than they hate soap. The most egregious grievance by a Palestinian “terrorist” throughout the film was the stealing of a pet goat. Israel has killed more than 4,000 Palestinians since the start of the second intifada, including nearly a 1000 children, yet the main gripe of these rabid “terrorists” is a stereotypical love for hillside animals. This “inoffensive” scenario is the equivalent of a scene in a Hollywood “comedy” made by a Palestinian filmmaker stereotypically portraying Jews as pissed off about being sent to Auschwitz because they found out that Hitler was going to make them pay for the train ride.

A particular scene in Zohan went beyond comprehension: Sandler’s casting agency rounded up a handful of children to play Palestinians throwing rocks at Zohan. What does Zohan do in response to the actions of these soon-to-be terrorists? He gleefully catches the stones and turns them into the equivalent of a balloon animal. One is supposed to toss aside any arising sensitivities and overlook the many instances Israeli snipers and soldiers have shot Palestinian children in the head or taken their eyes out with rubber bullets because of these rocks Zohan takes with a smile. The posturing of the noble and affable Mossad agent is a slick attempt to humanize Israel and make the Mossad (an outfit that has engaged in countless operations of state terrorism) look like the valiant GI Joe force in the Middle East combating jihadi thugs in the name of good. But Sandler’s character is not only a hero, he’s also a humanitarian. There are multiple scenes where Zohan informs the audience that Israelis do their best to minimize the loss of innocent Palestinian life, when an examination of the conflict by Israeli human rights organizations exposes quite the opposite.

Other stereotypes saturate the movie. The Palestinian salon that Zohan gets a job at is described as a dump, Palestinians constantly cheer for the “terrorists,” a crowd of Palestinians applaud the death of “heroic” Zohan (which he faked), and the “terrorists” are so st**id and illiterate that they purchase Neosporin instead of liquid nitrogen to make their bomb to kill Zohan. There is no distinction made between Hezbollah, Hamas, jihadists, and terrorist sexcapading sheiks. Furthermore, the film conveniently illustrates how Israelis in the US, as “fellow” natives of the Middle East, suffer the same discrimination and tribulations as Arabs in a post-911 world. Oddly, Israelis are passed off as “brown” and “other” like the Arabs in the film, yet Zohan’s parents look like European Ashkenazi Jews. Moreover, while Israelis are shown as native hummus loving Middle Easterners, Zohan’s family is portrayed distinctively differently from the backwards Arabs. Zohan’s parents are sweet, comforting, reasonable and accepting from beginning to end, not rigid like their Arab counterparts. Even when Zohan finally captures Dalia’s heart, his parents show up in America and warmly embrace their relationship without question—while Dalia and others resist the notion of a courtship between the two and tells Zohan that her family would never accept him. Ah, if only all Arabs could just get to know Israelis and see how kind, generous, and amorous they all are, the sooner we could all sit in a circle singing Kumbaya over s’mores and unfunny Zohan hummus jokes.

The worst dialogue throughout this 102 minute laughless action flick is made by Dalia (played by Emmanuelle Chriqui), Zohan’s eventual Palestinian love interest. She serves at the omnipotent propagandist—blaming the troubles of the conflict on “extremists” and “hate” on both sides. She endlessly and vaguely laments about how much “hate” there is “over there,” and describes to Zohan that things are “different here.” As any knowledgeable American knows, Palestinians and Israelis love each other here in the US; they frequently have bake sales together; they form sit-ins for blind coexistence on college campuses; and have Palestinian/Israeli karaoke nights where they sing their favorite Beatles tunes like Give Peace a Chance. What Sandler, and co-writers Judd Apatow and Robert Smigel, fail to understand is that before there was Hamas, Yasser Arafat, Fatah, the PLO, or any resistance movement, there was the dispossession of the Palestinian people, whereby 780,000 indigenous Palestinians were displaced from their homeland by Jewish gangs and terror groups. Flash forward 60 years and the Palestinian people are living in squalor in demolished towns and refugee camps enduring a 40 year occupation that strangulates their economy and diminishes any semblance of normalcy or a proper life. What we are to believe by watching this film is that if everyone would just stop “hating” (which Israelis are depicted as clearly willing to do, while Palestinians resist it vehemently) Israelis and Palestinians could effortlessly live together in harmony. But “hate” has little to do with a conflict rooted in a people’s desire for basic human rights and an end to oppression.

In the end, everything ends up happy and joyful: Zohan gets the girl, he saves the block from a conniving mall developer, and the “terrorists” stop terrorizing. But the jovial ending left a sour taste in my mouth. As nearly a dozen “nameless” Palestinians were killed by innocent and heroic Israeli soldiers last week and another report of the humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza went unnoticed in the US press, people were laughing all over the country at how st**id, feeble, violent and backwards Arabs are. A diehard Sandler fan proclaimed: “He's making it for 13 year old boys. It's Critic Proof.” That’s what scares me most of all.

Remi Kanazi is the editor of the forthcoming anthology of poetry, Poets For Palestine, which can be pre-ordered at http://www.poetsforpalestine.com/ - www.PoetsForPalestine.com . Remi can be contacted at mailto:remroum@gmail.com - remroum@gmail.com .



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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 27 June 2008 at 6:21pm
O.K. Adam Sandler is a racist also......   Are you going to quote him next?Big%20smile

-------------
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: JihadX
Date Posted: 28 June 2008 at 7:58pm
if adam sandler is a racist i'm no longer watching his movies!! Also, i saw the movie 10,000 b.c and im curious if that was the beginning of the arabs and africans in the movie

-------------
“The knife that slaughtered the guards at Bagram and set us free is now on its way to other places,”
_ The Mujahid, The Eminent, Sheikh Abu Yahya Al Libi


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 29 June 2008 at 9:50pm
I agree.
 
This individual calls for the relationship between Jews and Muslims. We should give this individual a Muslim perspective, not quote non-muslims. He didn't specifically ask about the Holocaust nor any war nor anything else. It's important to address the question. It's funny that Sign Reader a Muslim, quotes a known racist in his own words: " is one politician who tells the way it is!"
 
"What Pat says you need to rebut his points than just saying being racist!"
 
You want proof?
 
ON AFRICAN-AMERICANS
After Sen. Carol Moseley Braun blocked a federal patent for a
Confederate flag insignia, Buchanan wrote that she was "putting on an act"
by associating the Confederacy with slavery: "The War Between the States
was about independence, about self-determination, about the right of a
people to break free of a government to which they could no longer give
allegiance,"  Buchanan asserted.  "How long is this endless groveling
before every cry of'racism' going to continue before the whole country
collectively throws up?"
(syndicated column, 7/28/93).
 
The War was indeed about the South's independence for the North, but it was also about the South's intent to perpetuate the inhumane practice of slavery in which estimates showed killed over 50-100million Africans over its 400 year period in the united States of America. The Confederate Flag although Sourtherns claim its neutrality, is an emblematic symbol of pain and oppression to many African-Americans across the country.
 
This is what he says about the segregated areas in the 40's:
 
"There were no
politics to polarize us then, to magnify every slight. The 'negroes' of
Washington had their public schools, restaurants, bars, movie houses,
playgrounds and churches; and we had ours." (Right from the Beginning,
Buchanan's 1988 autobiography, p. 131)
 
Buchanan on Dr. Martin luther king's widowed wife:
 
White House advisor Buchanan urged President Nixon in an April 1969
memo not to visit "the Widow King" on the first anniversary of Martin
Luther King's assassination, warning that a visit would "outrage many, many
people who believe Dr. King was a fraud and a demagogue and perhaps
worse.... Others consider him the Devil incarnate. Dr. King is one of the
most divisive men in contemporary history." (New York Daily News, 10/1/90).
 
On Jews and being gased:

Writing of "group fantasies of martyrdom," Buchanan challenged the
historical record that thousands of Jews were gassed to death by diesel
exhaust at Treblinka: "Diesel engines do not emit enough carbon monoxide
to kill anybody." (New Republic, 10/22/90) Buchanan's columns have run in
the Liberty Lobby's Spotlight, the German-American National PAC newsletter
and other publications that claim Nazi death camps are a Zionist
concoction.

On visiting Germany and the buried SS troops:
Buchanan was vehement in pushing President Reagan -- despite protests
-- to visit Germany's Bitburg cemetery, where Nazi SS troops were buried.
At a White House meeting, Buchanan reportedly reminded Jewish leaders that
they were "Americans first" -- and repeatedly scrawled the phrase
"Succumbing to the pressure of the Jews" in his notebook.  Buchanan was
credited with crafting Ronald Reagan's line that the SS troops buried at
Bitburg were "victims just as surely as the victims in the concentration
camps."
(New York Times, 5/16/85; New Republic, 1/22/96).
 
what Pat Buttchanan thinks about women:

"The real liberators of American women were not the feminist
noise-makers, they were the automobile, the supermarket, the shopping
center, the dishwasher, the washer-dryer, the freezer." (Right from the
Beginning, p. 149).

 
On people of color:

In a September 1993 speech to the Christian Coalition, Buchanan
described multiculturalism as "an across-the-board assault on our
Anglo-American heritage."

"There is nothing wrong with us sitting down and arguing that issue
that we are a European country." (Newsday, 11/15/92).
 
Like S.A. many of these statements are not worth the rebuttal as they are examples of one man's st**idity. Only a racist can admire another racist ignorant fool's point of view regarding the Jews. I'm sorry I don't subscribe to Nation of Islam-like mentality in blaming the Jews for the world's problem nor would I inform another curious soul with the quotes of another hateful human being. I'm not calling anyone a racist but if anyone subscribes to this st**idity called Pat buchanan as "telling it how it is" then the shoes just as well fits.
 
By the way reference can be found at: http://www.mtsu.edu/~baustin/buchanan.html - http://www.mtsu.edu/~baustin/buchanan.html
 
You wanna hear more crap about Pat buchana on his latest rant on blacks and Obama see the times at: http://streetknowledge.wordpress.com/2008/03/28/pat-buchanans-racist-rant-against-blacks-obama/ - http://streetknowledge.wordpress.com/2008/03/28/pat-buchanans-racist-rant-against-blacks-obama/
 
Yes, this ignorant bastard tells it alright!
 



 

 





 
 
 


Posted By: JihadX
Date Posted: 30 June 2008 at 6:19am
Thank You so much brother

-------------
“The knife that slaughtered the guards at Bagram and set us free is now on its way to other places,”
_ The Mujahid, The Eminent, Sheikh Abu Yahya Al Libi


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 02 July 2008 at 12:54pm
Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt

O.K. Adam Sandler is a racist also......   Are you going to quote him next?Big%20smile

Duh! That was for you to figure out!
When a Jew makes a buck exploiting racism the Americans are quieter than mice or simply act dumber than a door nail but anybody else  is guilty like hell no matter what LOL


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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 02 July 2008 at 2:45pm
It is obvious you have some hatred for Jews.
 
Racism exist even among Jews and nobody here is trying to argue otherwise. But what I have a problem is when you expose your hatred to a seemingly purely neutral question. Unlike you and some muslims here I'm not going to start blaming Jews for the world's problem, there is at some point some accountability on our own. It is sad f all people you had to quote a poor human being who is not only a racist (whose views obviously will support yours) but also subscribes to ahtred of all other people.
 
 


Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 02 July 2008 at 3:27pm
[QUOTE=Sign*Reader]
Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt

O.K. Adam Sandler is a racist also......   Are you going to quote him next?Big%20smile

Duh! That was for you to figure out!
When a Jew makes a buck exploiting racism the Americans are quieter than mice or simply act dumber than a door nail but anybody else  is guilty like hell no matter what LOL
[/QUOTE]
 
I think if you have read any of my other posts you will see that I am adamantly against Zionism and the Israeli occupation of Palestine. I belong to several organizations against the occupation, including one started by Jews against the occupation. I am also against the Jewish lobby in this country wielding so much power and stifling any discussion regarding the above.
 
There is a difference between Zionist and the Jewish lobby who push their agenda and the general Jewish population. Jews are not responsible for all of the evil in the world, just as Muslims are not responsible for all of the terrorists in the world.


-------------
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 03 July 2008 at 6:26am

Maybe some history research on the rise of Islamic Spain, in the early days the Jews helped the muslims, they became allies. Eventually all 3 lived harmonisely together for a period of time.



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~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 08 July 2008 at 10:38pm
Originally posted by Israfil

I agree.

This individual calls for the relationship between Jews and Muslims. We should give this individual a Muslim perspective,

Let me give you some of the perspective before you get into the assumption game! I know Jews lot better than you would ever know!

I almost married a Jewish woman but I am glad that I didn't and with my luck now we live next door to an atheist but  Jewish couple! In last thirteen years since we moved to this house they have shown zero interest in maintaining good neighborly relations toward which end my wife and I have bent over backward cuz Allah & the Prophet gave so much preference to the neighbor's rights that people thought he might make them receivers in the inheritances! This happened when we went on Hajj and told them about it,  they have been just a pain and it was twelve years ago! He has yelled at my son for no valid reason! He has so many violation  of city codes for back yard construction that we could call city on him and make his life miserable but we won't! This is no slum but rather a beach community and he has created eye sores! Even their daughter tried to create a stir with the neighbor on other side that I tried to run one of their dog over! BTW both those of those dogs died after a while with cancer! Allah's justice!



 not quote non-muslims.
He is one of most knowledgeable on the subject with proper credentials! Were you around when he was writing the Reagan's speeches?
 He didn't specifically ask about the Holocaust
He sure did  go back and read his post!
nor any war nor anything else. It's important to address the question. It's funny that Sign Reader a Muslim, quotes a known racist in his own words: " is one politician who tells the way it is!"
 
"What Pat says you need to rebut his points than just saying being racist!"
 
You want proof?
 
ON AFRICAN-AMERICANS
After Sen. Carol Moseley Braun blocked a federal patent for a
Confederate flag insignia, Buchanan wrote that she was "putting on an act"
by associating the Confederacy with slavery: "The War Between the States
was about independence, about self-determination, about the right of a
people to break free of a government to which they could no longer give
allegiance,"  Buchanan asserted.  "How long is this endless groveling
before every cry of'racism' going to continue before the whole country
collectively throws up?"
(syndicated column, 7/28/93).

So far Ms Braun is concerned I I know how clean were her hands, she was outed cuz of corruption!
The business of confederate flag is irrelevant you can go online and see how many are for sale still!

 
The War was indeed about the South's independence for the North, but it was also about the South's intent to perpetuate the inhumane practice of slavery in which estimates showed killed over 50-100million Africans over its 400 year period in the united States of America. The Confederate Flag although Sourtherns claim its neutrality, is an emblematic symbol of pain and oppression to many African-Americans across the country.

In the case of slave trade the Jewish slave traders were quite prominent and you won't want to talk about them! It is them who caused more deaths during the inhumane transportations! Their cost was lot less than the fellows who bought them!
 
This is what he says about the segregated areas in the 40's:
 
"There were no
politics to polarize us then, to magnify every slight. The 'negroes' of
Washington had their public schools, restaurants, bars, movie houses,
playgrounds and churches; and we had ours." (Right from the Beginning,
Buchanan's 1988 autobiography, p. 131)

Does he still think that way?
 
Buchanan on Dr. Martin luther king's widowed wife:
 
White House advisor Buchanan urged President Nixon in an April 1969
memo not to visit "the Widow King" on the first anniversary of Martin
Luther King's assassination, warning that a visit would "outrage many, many
people who believe Dr. King was a fraud and a demagogue and perhaps
worse.... Others consider him the Devil incarnate. Dr. King is one of the
most divisive men in contemporary history." (New York Daily News, 10/1/90).
Same as above!
On Jews and being gased:

Writing of "group fantasies of martyrdom," Buchanan challenged the
historical record that thousands of Jews were gassed to death by diesel
exhaust at Treblinka: "Diesel engines do not emit enough carbon monoxide
to kill anybody." (New Republic, 10/22/90) Buchanan's columns have run in
the Liberty Lobby's Spotlight, the German-American National PAC newsletter
and other publications that claim Nazi death camps are a Zionist
concoction.

He is not the only one! You should visit Frenchconnection and read Jack Bernstein it might enlighten you a bit!

On visiting Germany and the buried SS troops:
Buchanan was vehement in pushing President Reagan -- despite protests
-- to visit Germany's Bitburg cemetery, where Nazi SS troops were buried.
At a White House meeting, Buchanan reportedly reminded Jewish leaders that
they were "Americans first" -- and repeatedly scrawled the phrase
"Succumbing to the pressure of the Jews" in his notebook.  Buchanan was
credited with crafting Ronald Reagan's line that the SS troops buried at
Bitburg were "victims just as surely as the victims in the concentration
camps."
(New York Times, 5/16/85; New Republic, 1/22/96).

 
what Pat Buttchanan thinks about women:

"The real liberators of American women were not the feminist
noise-makers, they were the automobile, the supermarket, the shopping
center, the dishwasher, the washer-dryer, the freezer." (Right from the
Beginning, p. 149).

Do you give credit to feminists? I think the WWII had lot to do with this! The women folks end up working in the factories while the men were gone to the war front! Their pay check making those war machines and appliances  and using them did have the freedom effect from one type of drudgery to another! And you call it liberation ....... that is a joke!

On people of color:

In a September 1993 speech to the Christian Coalition, Buchanan
described multiculturalism as "an across-the-board assault on our
Anglo-American heritage."

"There is nothing wrong with us sitting down and arguing that issue
that we are a European country." (Newsday, 11/15/92).

You and I may not like every thing he says but Americans have done lot worse than just saying this ! Have you thought what happened to the natives?

 
Like S.A. many of these statements are not worth the rebuttal as they are examples of one man's st**idity. Only a racist can admire another racist ignorant fool's point of view regarding the Jews. I'm sorry I don't subscribe to Nation of Islam-like mentality in blaming the Jews for the world's problem nor would I inform another curious soul with the quotes of another hateful human being. I'm not calling anyone a racist but if anyone subscribes to this st**idity called Pat buchanan as "telling it how it is" then the shoes just as well fits.
 
By the way reference can be found at: http://www.mtsu.edu/%7Ebaustin/buchanan.html - http://www.mtsu.edu/~baustin/buchanan.html
 
You wanna hear more crap about Pat buchana on his latest rant on blacks and Obama see the times at: http://streetknowledge.wordpress.com/2008/03/28/pat-buchanans-racist-rant-against-blacks-obama/ - http://streetknowledge.wordpress.com/2008/03/28/pat-buchanans-racist-rant-against-blacks-obama/
 
Yes, this ignorant bastard tells it alright!

The streetknowledge has taken 1995 TIME cover to top his recent column  indicates a pathetic exercise in blogging!
BTW the stuff he talked in 95 cover article  Obama copied quite few points during his campaign! The politics is a Machiavellian game! S far I am concerned all have sold their souls to the Devil!
That bastard  knew then what was coming !
 



 
No need to have this here but that was your choice~
Why Africa is no better today?

 Give credit where it is due i.e., The Jewish slave traders = GO to Frenchconnection





 
 
 


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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 09 July 2008 at 6:56am
http://www.christianaction.org.za/articles_ca/2004-4-TheScourgeofSlavery.htm -
http://www.christianaction.org.za/articles_ca/2004-4-TheScourgeofSlavery.htm
 
ALL are at fault!!!


-------------
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 09 July 2008 at 11:43am
Originally posted by believer

http://www.christianaction.org.za/articles_ca/2004-4-TheScourgeofSlavery.htm -
http://www.christianaction.org.za/articles_ca/2004-4-TheScourgeofSlavery.htm
 

The role of new apartheid state Israel with old was no secret!




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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 09 July 2008 at 1:11pm
And the article made absolutely NO mention of King Leopold.. great guy he was.. was responsible for one the worst places-The Congo- of the slave trade in which 2-5 million people died.   Agreat book is called King Leopold's Ghost by Adam Hochschild.
 

Well glad to see that some people give credit to Christianity and Christians for ending slavery.. lol.

 

And no it was not Jewish people who ran the show. Give me the names. It was European powers who ran the show. And they were not led by Jewish people. Sorry, cannot foster that onto Jewish people.  That's like say ing that they are responsible for the 30 million people who died in China in the Cultural Revolution. 

 

And te article was like.. well that guy sold them to us what were we supposed to do??? Duh..  I am telling you read this book, it makes your stomach roll.. as they chopped off hands and feet of the children so the parents would not rebel..  


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When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 09 July 2008 at 1:25pm

http://www.iamthewitness.com/books/Walter.White/Who.Brought.the.Slaves.to.America.htm - Who Brought the Slaves to America?



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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 09 July 2008 at 4:28pm
I thought it was bad when you quoted Pat Buchanon, but Walter White Jr.? 
 
You have a strange group of people whom you seem to find credible and quotable. 


-------------
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 09 July 2008 at 8:08pm
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Classroom/9912/easterntrade.html - http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Classroom/9912/easterntrade.html
 

Due to the enormous length of the Arab Slave Trade, from 700 to 1911AD, it is impossible to be certain of the numbers of Africans sold in this system. Estimates place the numbers somewhere around 14 million: at least 9.6 million African women and 4.4 African men.

 

The Abolition of Slavery

The institution of slavery regretably existed both in the old, classical Christian and Islamic civilizations. Yet it is to the credit of Christianity that the abolition movement took root in Great Britain, Western Europe, and the United States and brought an end to this buying and selling of human beings.

The way in which slavery was practiced in Islamic countries had both bright and dark sides. What is regretable now is that this practice among Muslims is seldom openly discussed - as if slavery was exclusively a Western phenomenon. This deliberate silence enables Islamic propagandists in America to represent Muslims as liberators of the people of African origin, contrary to historical fact.

http://galliawatch.blogspot.com/2008/06/arab-muslim-slave-trade.html - http://galliawatch.blogspot.com/2008/06/arab-muslim-slave-trade.html

New book reopens old arguments about slave raids on Europe

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2004/mar/11/highereducation.books - http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2004/mar/11/highereducation.books



-------------
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 10 July 2008 at 3:09am
Well it seems like everyone wants to blame everyone else. Darkness exists everywhere..

i saw a PBS show on these people from Rhode Island, US. Well to do family. That found out that their ancestors were big time slave dealers from Ghana. They were episcopalean. And they were trying to come terms with it.

Darkness of the human spirit affects people all over. We will all be held accountable for our actions.

-------------
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi


Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 10 July 2008 at 10:30am
I watched Nightline two days ago. The name of the show was "How to buy a child in ten hours".
The reporter traveled to Haiti, 95% Christian population, and was able to broker a deal to buy a little girl within a couple hours of landing.  Two different men offered him children, then when they had left the waiters working at the cafe where they were approached him and offered to sell him a child. He was told once he bought the girl he owned her and could do whatever he wanted, including kill, to her.
 
They then talked to people who owned children as slaves, little children who were made to work from sunrise to sunset and physically abused. The owners felt they were doing absolutely nothing wrong. This is all done out in the open and the authorities do nothing to stop it, even the abuse.  They talked to one little girl who was 10 and who was beaten with electrical cords.
 
This is not the past, this is happening right now in a Christian country. Where are all of the Christian abolitionists? Get up and protest!!!  This is a chance for all good Christians to really make a difference. Hold these slave owning, child selling and abusing members of your religion up to public scrutiny and force them to stop.


-------------
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 11 July 2008 at 5:22am
http://www.islamicity.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=52403&FID=29 - Hayfa - yes that was behind my comment that ALL are at fault!!
 
shasta- it is happening in all countries- What shocks us that is it is in a Christian country- Because of the image of the sinless man Jesus.  People want to believe that Christians are sinless too.  Remember though that no man is sinless but Jesus.
 
Christians are expected by the world to be better people.


-------------
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 11 July 2008 at 9:51pm

*Sign Reader,

Have you ever taken a black studies course in school? college or any institution of higher learning? Do you know anything about African history beyond the popular historical findings of non-African scholars or researchers? If the answer is no this is not a topic you want to touch less you want me to embarass you so-called knowledge. My comment previously was not about trying to discuss slavery but to discuss your questionable sources, but I don't know why this turned into a discussion on slavery.
 
Believer,
 
Mainstream Christianity (meanig missionary influences) is perhaps, historically more accountable for transaction of slavery than any other relgiious faith if you wish to be technical. Eurocentric attitudes such as yours like to deduce the historical logic into "all were accountable." But who shares most of the accountability? Europeans ravaged Africa taking its resources and annihilating the idigenous people. Between 1850 and 1862 the African borders were established, not by the Africans but by colonial powers: Britain, France, Spain, Portugal, Belguim, and many of these nations came under the guise of christian religion. I'll admit, Christianity was abused to colonize a people, but I'd be damned to read an ignorant fools rant about how "Christian's freed the slaves." Christian's didn't free slaves. Freedom is not about creating laws to end slavery, freedom is about setting the standards of equality for all people. People mention Abraham Lincoln a Christian, who so-called freed slaves? Yea. When abraham made the emancipation proclamation, John F. hume an anti-slavery leader recorded Abraham saying (regarding the emancipation proclamation):
 
"did not ... whatever it may have otherwise accomplished at the time it was issued, liberate a single slave." (Fonner, Free, 290).
 
Many abolitionist saw the "Negro as an inferior being" but sought to free the Negro because of the twisted morality that was evolving at the time. Blacks were not equal, but didn't deserve to be slaves mentality. Blacks were god's children but needed to be purified for their "nigger sins." Yeah Christianity liberated my ancestors. I think you need to read more instead of googling your information, that goes for you and Sign Reader. Jews perhaps were behind the scenes but I doubt some Jewish sailors can be accounter for over 100 million of my ancestors killed during the 1,000 plus years Africans were in captivity (yes slavery of Africans by the colonial powers didn't start in America folks!).
 
 


Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 12 July 2008 at 11:42am
Originally posted by believer

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=52403&FID=29 - Hayfa - yes that was behind my comment that ALL are at fault!!
 
shasta- it is happening in all countries- What shocks us that is it is in a Christian country- Because of the image of the sinless man Jesus.  People want to believe that Christians are sinless too.  Remember though that no man is sinless but Jesus.
 
Christians are expected by the world to be better people.
 
 "Yet it is to the credit of Christianity that the abolition movement took root in Great Britain, Western Europe, and the United States and brought an end to this buying and selling of human beings."
 
I am not shocked that Christians had/have slaves. Up until 50-60 years ago White Baptist churches in the South were still teaching that black skin is the mark of Cain.
 
I am pointing out the hypocrisy in your statements. Christians talk a good game, ie: your post in red, yet nothing has ended and Christians are in the thick of the buying and selling. 
 
Or maybe many Christians just don't realise that they as a religion put an end to slavery. They haven't caught on yet....... 


-------------
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 13 July 2008 at 6:10am
LOL!!  Muslims always stabbing and attacking the followers of Jesus. 
 
Most whites in the US have been taught through school that slavery was all the fault of the USA white man.  That the US had the most slaves, more then any other country. 
 
Wonder why there is hatered between the faiths.  I extend a hand to say yes we all are at fault.  LOL!!  We will remain the poor pitiful humans we are.


-------------
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 13 July 2008 at 9:18pm
Most whites in the US have been taught through school that slavery was all the fault of the USA white man.
 
What academic institution or better yet what world are you referring? Most white kids barely know anything about slavery and how it happened and when it happened. Most middle/upper-class white kids in the United dstates grow up with this "white privilege" mentality where their words and actions are immutable. And nobody here is saying the united States had most slaves do you even know how to read or are you illiterate yourself. Check my post I even listed countries involved in the trade and selling of African slaves. I did say that Christianity historically has been the most abused religion when looking at slavery. It was used to enslave people. I believe I made a thread in the interfaith section regarding King Leopold's letter if you would like, I can post it here. You wonder things, I wonder if you have the ability to think sometimes.
 
 


Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 14 July 2008 at 3:51am
Most whites in the US have been taught through school that slavery was all the fault of the USA white man.
 
 
I agree with Israfil..what school did you go to?? I don't think 95% of thw white Americans think much of it to tell you the truth. We are not a "confrontation" society.. we don't say, hey your ancestors.. did x, y and z.
 
Yes, sadly slavery has been around way too long.
 
But are my more direct ancestors and ethnic group responsible for the transatlantic slave trade, slavery in the US, Segregation and Jim Crow. Yes.  Did most white people in the US, economimcally benefit from the slave labor. Yes. You study the economics of it and you'll see. Did the elitist attitudes of the day benefit white people. Yes. always helps to not be on the bottom and people put there through no specific actions of their own.
 
 


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When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 15 July 2008 at 10:45pm
Originally posted by Israfil

*Sign Reader,

Have you ever taken a black studies course in school? college or any institution of higher learning? Do you know anything about African history beyond the popular historical findings of non-African scholars or researchers? If the answer is no this is not a topic you want to touch less you want me to embarass you so-called knowledge. My comment previously was not about trying to discuss slavery but to discuss your questionable sources, but I don't know why this turned into a discussion on slavery.
 

It is the one you find in the mirror who brought the subject of slavery up by posting a slave in chains image!
Let me tell you must be mistaken that I give a crap with that image based on your attitude!
Why do I need the godforsaken African studies?
The same characters who were in slave trade their descendants  went on to the business of enslaving whole nations! This talk of slavery doesn't turn me on while an open crime of destruction in the heartland of Muslim people is being conducted by the same people in Iraq & Afghanistan with a new twists that the descendants of slaves have joined them in this exercise! And that is a crying shame that they are doing it for the Jews! Probably some of your buddies must be partners in this too!
This time they are also paying their slavery agents big only to get their hands on what these nations have under their feet so they could really enslave the world!

But alas the locals decided to fight back that  blew away the design of neocon mission and also the economy of this country! You are still young so it doesn't matter to you but the rest are screwed with inflation world wide with the fiat dollars squandered by the billions , loss in property values or even just loss with foreclosures in sub prime shell game run parallel to the distraction to the Iraqi fire work/ invasion! But being a cop it might help your career with rise in crime; which ghetto did you say your beat is in- south central-LA! right?
The US multi nationals are enslaving people in the poor third world to work in the sweat shops right now; the inflation and technology just changed the location and nature of work from a cotton picker to sneakers or flags for the dead bodies or any other crap you want them to make!
It is strange that you put down the Jewish boy's Google!
You might say say why are we on IC cuz it shows up with Google!
You have a problem with 100 million figure, you can make that 10 whatever, it is a technicality- you read Torah you will find quite a few weird numbers I bet!
When you have your own blog and make your own rules see how many show up!


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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 16 July 2008 at 8:04pm
It is the one you find in the mirror who brought the subject of slavery up by posting a slave in chains image!
Let me tell you must be mistaken that I give a crap with that image based on your attitude!
Why do I need the godforsaken African studies?
 
Because you are as ignorant as many of the non-Muslims who come here to defame Islam without prior knowledge. You cite a known racist as proven facts about Jews to me this is blind st**idity. Slavery was never a topic I wanted to discuss but I couldn't help but use the image to show how wrong your sources were not to mention racists. You have made Jews out to be prime conspirators of slavery and I'm saying although this is but not entirely inaccurate statement I was refuting that with other cofound variables that you have seem to have excluded.
 
with a new twists that the descendants of slaves have joined them in this exercise!
 
I suspect you are saying Blacks  are contributing to demise of other people? Where are you getting your crap from?
 
And that is a crying shame that they are doing it for the Jews! Probably some of your buddies must be partners in this too!
This time they are also paying their slavery agents big only to get their hands on what these nations have under their feet so they could really enslave the world!

Wow your conspiracy thoeries are interesting better than the X-files! I see this kind of rant equivalent to Jessie Jackson's rant on Obama.

It is strange that you put down the Jewish boy's Google!
You might say say why are we on IC cuz it shows up with Google!
You have a problem with 100 million figure, you can make that 10 whatever, it is a technicality- you read Torah you will find quite a few weird numbers I bet!
When you have your own blog and make your own rules see how many show up!

When you grow up and stop blaming Jews for everything outside your poor ability to debate then I'll respect what your saying. But I cannot debate or dialogue with someone who thinks Jews are respeonsible for 90% if not 100% of the world's problems. Jews have their hands in a lot of things I will say, but i'm not going to sit here and blame jews for everything, because as we say growing up in my house you have a level of responsibility. A Jews as you say may have enslaved my ancestors and raped my women, took away my native language and my history but that doesn't make me want to strap bombs to my body and blow up their descendants. Today I'm the boss with the degree and the power I have a level of authority where many Jews, Muslims and Christians work under me, but I respect all equally as my fellow co-workers. So despite what history shows I will not hold people accountable for the horrific crimes their ancestors have done to my people, something many Arabs especially Jews need to understand.



 
 
 


Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 3:05am
Israfil, one cannot discuss with people who are illogical and uninformed.

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When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 6:40pm
LOL!!  I was tasught Black History in High School by no less then an African-american as were my children that appear white but do contain black blood.  

-------------
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 11:25pm
Fact: did you know the first U.S. president prior to the creation of the Constitution was a BLACKMAN John Hanson (1781)? Oh, I'm sure you learned about Washington being the first U.S. president post-constitution. Yes, I'm sure you know a lot about black history. Do you know 3/4 person law? Do you know the year the abolitionist formed? Do you know prominent black leaders and ex-slaves? these are questions that ar enot covered in high school. I doubt you have little knowledge of black history because when I was growing up in a primarily minority neighborhood I was not taught the history of any other culture outside whites so don't give me that crap about being taught. you were taught the basics if not the watered down versions. From your response you weren't taught much.


Posted By: JihadX
Date Posted: 19 July 2008 at 3:22pm
wow this issue has been really going on I see. I think that Israfil makes a good point by stating the facts on african history. Many things can't be learned in school. However, im fortunate enough to have a very intelligent teacher who happens to be white but he is a brother regardless of color. He teaches me many things of this subject. I really hope America gets more teachers like him and brothers  and sisters who think similar to Israfil

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“The knife that slaughtered the guards at Bagram and set us free is now on its way to other places,”
_ The Mujahid, The Eminent, Sheikh Abu Yahya Al Libi


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 20 July 2008 at 7:20am
LOL!!  Israfil - you are calling me a liar!!
 
While I did go to a 75% white 25% black high school it was very progressive-university professor's kids school.
 
My children went to a 15% white and 85% black high school. 
 


-------------
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 20 July 2008 at 10:36pm

Originally posted by Israfil in red

 

I suspect you are saying Blacks  are contributing to demise of other people? Where are you getting your crap from?
The problem is that to you people every thing is crap! That is fine  you can always check on demographic breakdown US army at the local library! This is no conspiracy if you don't like to Google the info!
The blacks signed up with the whites way out of proportion to their demographics in all volunteer army in an Israelite/neocon jews driven Iraqi and Afghani invasion for Iraq part  the http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1198517338408&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull - chief Rabbi of Israel has thanked Bush!   I grant you that with unexpected mortal resistance springing in Iraq the blacks enlistment dropped since the invasion but that doesn't absolve them for the unholy operation they became complicit in! It just simply applies on  the enlistees but also the higher ups likes of Colin and Condi!
I challenge you to disprove that! 

 

Wow your conspiracy thoeries are interesting better than the X-files! I see this kind of rant equivalent to Jessie Jackson's rant on Obama.

OK, Israfil- they say when you are in a hole quit digging-

 You started this point, now listen what I am going to tell you- There are levels stages in people's state of slavishness, Jessie has his own and Obama has his and you have yours!

The following is from the greatest Muslim philosopher & poet of the last century Dr. Iqbal! If you know so much of philosophy you would know who was he!

The wisdom of orient and occident has taught me a point that might be a panacea for the slaves!

Religion, philosophy, whether poverty( of a monk) or a kingdom!

These are built upon firm creeds!

Just the words of those are useless and action nothing but crying and meanness!

Their conscience is devoid of firm creeds!

BTW you could wish Obama could have a non Jewish manager! That is no conspiracy that is a fact (Mr. Axelrod is a Jew)!

 everything outside your poor ability to debate then I'll respect what your saying. But I cannot debate or dialogue with someone who thinks Jews are respeonsible for 90% if not 100% of the world's problems. Jews have their hands in a lot of things I will say, but i'm not going to sit here and blame jews for everything, because as we say growing up in my house you have a level of responsibility. A Jews as you say may have enslaved my ancestors and raped my women, took away my native language and my history but that doesn't make me want to strap bombs to my body and blow up their descendants. Today I'm the boss with the degree and the power I have a level of authority where many Jews, Muslims and Christians work under me, but I respect all equally as my fellow co-workers. So despite what history shows I will not hold people accountable for the horrific crimes their ancestors have done to my people, something many Arabs especially Jews need to understand.

You haven't rebutted my point other than making your own %ages; who said it has to be 100 %, In democracy where you count 50% +1 of asses and you have your man in saddle, doesn't matter he or she white black blue Xtian Catholic or what ever as long as he sings from the their sheet of music!

Congratulations on your degree and being the boss ! Why would you or anybody in here will strap the bombs that is a silly coming from you cuz at this moment you are just a cog  of the system going haywire!

Just tell if there was any IndyMac branch in your precinct? –and  did you send the squads to keep an eye on the nervous people at the bank run?

You want to see of real power of Jews? They decide how much value is left of the paycheck you earn!Don't believe me that is OK, this is again net debate!

It is the Fed who control the life blood of US and who ever is tied to dollar economy! Do you agree on that or you don't?

Look at this board of governors below and tell me who is not Jewish and don’t forget with 2% of the population! There shouldn’t be even one!

The current members of the Board of Governors are with two empty seats!

    * Ben Bernanke, Chairman

    * Donald Kohn, Vice-Chairman

    * Frederic Mishkin

    * Kevin Warsh

    * Randall Kroszner

The Empire Builders of neoconservative group, same you figure who is not Jewish?

Also figure on your own find what powerful positions they have had and abused with impunity in the US government and in the media?

1.      Irving Kristol

2.      Norman Podhoretz

3.      Paul Wolfowitz

4.      Richard Perle

5.      Douglar Feith

6.      Lewis Scooter Libby

7.      John Boltan

8.      Elliot Abrams

9.      Robert Kagan

10.  Mike Ledeen

11.  Bill Kristol

12.  Frank Gaffney

Finally if is quite admirable that you can let be bygone be bygones! But what is happening in other parts of the world the atrocities are picking up the tempo still, genocide of the innocent and apartheid situation in 21st century is shameful reality!

So you think the inequities among blacks or others have disappeared by you being a boss in some LA police department!

You and may be some other think the preplanned injustices and destruction based on shear lies and deception globally are not worth mentioning here then I don’t know you have any basis of a Muslim’s creed in your conscience! Come on give me your best shot!



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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 21 July 2008 at 1:09am
Sign Reader:
 
You are so virulent in your attacks against blacks, Jews, Americans, all of whom you claim are murdering Muslims but what of the Muslims murdering Muslims and others?  Shouldn't your anger be directed toward them as they are Muslims and have been commanded by Allah not to kill other Muslims. They should know better and behave better.


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“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 21 July 2008 at 2:52pm
So sign Reader.. are you saying basically that the issue is less about zionist control, but the ignorance and blindness of people in general?  To an extend, yes you are right in that people are with their heads in the sand about the power brokers so to speak.
 
I guess you are including Chistians who are pro-zionism like Bush then?
 
And also then you may be saying that the Jewish people runnnig things have t obe the most brilliant people to run things as they have been doing?
 
Have you ever read about Leopold who ran probably one of the most brutal and horrible places in the Congo? He was darkness personaified about how he manipulated and had everyone in Belgium believing how he was saving the "poor African" but in relating destroyed those people.
 
And by the way, he was not Jewish..
 
Just seeking clarification 


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When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 22 July 2008 at 5:33pm
Originally posted by Hayfa

So sign Reader.. are you saying basically that the issue is less about zionist control, but the ignorance and blindness of people in general?  To an extend, yes you are right in that people are with their heads in the sand about the power brokers so to speak.
 
I guess you are including Chistians who are pro-zionism like Bush then?
Hayfa; It is all of the above! My impression was that with new democratic candidate Obama there will be some waning in the Zionist influence the supposedly independent minds after half a century of their stranglehold. But that was not meant to be the case after I listened to his groveling  to the AIPAC. It became clearer like a day that Zionism has taken over most of the American minds as new political religion for now truth be damned!When the truth is politicized the conscience is on life support and becomes beholden to who is holding the plug!
Obama ended up comparing his own life to the Zionism; politics makes strange bedfellows and he proved it so! And it is a sickening sight while being a black candidate he off limits, he is untouchable for any harsh criticism in the west! It was an appalling that even Uri Avenary is wondering what he promising to the Zionists, can he even deliver?
Don't believe me here is the small passage from that below: 

 
-----------"I had grown up without a sense of roots. My father was black; he was from Kenya, and he left us when I was 2. My mother was white; she was from Kansas, and I'd moved with her to Indonesia and then back to Hawaii. In many ways, I didn't know where I came from. So I was drawn to the belief that you could sustain a spiritual, emotional and cultural identity. And I deeply understood the Zionist idea — that there is always a homeland at the center of our story."....................

And then arrogant  expect things will be  peaceful in the ME, with unmitigated use of Zionist blessed money & machines in the air(f15-16-18-B1-2 52 cobras drones) and the ground ( million S tanks and all other gadgets of killing innocent )pulverizing the friends and foes alike- The crazy men on the triggers of the f18 won't know the difference in wedding party or a group of guerrillas! It is to be seen the new slave traders/owners' with a new agenda to enslave new lands if they can succeed which I doubt though with  current  performances!
What I won't take is Israfil (who according to his own that he is black and a cop)  completely ignoring the fact the men from the minorities who were abused as in the days of slavery  have voluntarily  been joining in the killing machine of Muslim lands as sort of blind crusade!
They need to remember Muhammad Ali's conscientious objector's stand during the Vietnam era! Unless the money situation in their communities have been pushed to conditions being perfect for their use as mercenaries!

And also then you may be saying that the Jewish people runnnig things have t obe the most brilliant people to run things as they have been doing?
Brilliant is one trait that also found in rest of the human species but you know there is some thing called selling soul to the devil!
Who is tops in producing and distributing porn the Jewish San Fernando Valley cities - Israfil should know that is not too far from him!
The gambling operations Las Vegas  or wherever , the drive to make LGBT legal  everywhere that includes the "God given state of Israel"(LOL)!
Had Wilson's with some of his sexual escapade cornered to sign their banking laws! Just remember Clinton & Monica and his lying!
The list could be endless.................
Have you ever read about Leopold who ran probably one of the most brutal and horrible places in the Congo? He was darkness personaified about how he manipulated and had everyone in Belgium believing how he was saving the "poor African" but in relating destroyed those people.
I know he was a devil's replication like many others in Europe who hired a bastard (for real) Sir Henry Stanley to be his local manager of the slave business. Leopold was  bringing Christianity to the Congolese by killing them! This bastard adopted  New Orleans trader Stanley's name!
Anyway the European were all over the globe on such missionary rampage beside colonization, Stanley was lot brutal on Leopold's behalf!
While at it read the opium wars against China and the Jewish Sassoon's role!
 
And by the way, he was not Jewish..
Stanley - Jewish extraction may be sounds like who knows
Just seeking clarification
OK, what do I know?


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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 23 July 2008 at 1:20pm

Sign Reader:

The problem is that to you people every thing is crap!
 
Sounds like the rant of a racially prejudiced individual. Who are "you people?" If you are referring to blacks you might as well save your prejudices because I'm speaking for myself. I call your information crap because everything that comes out of your mouth in computational sense is crap.
 
That is fine  you can always check on demographic breakdown US army at the local library! This is no conspiracy if you don't like to Google the info!
The blacks signed up with the whites way out of proportion to their demographics in all volunteer army in an Israelite/neocon jews driven Iraqi and Afghani invasion for Iraq part  the http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1198517338408&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull - chief Rabbi of Israel has thanked Bush!   I grant you that with unexpected mortal resistance springing in Iraq the blacks enlistment dropped since the invasion but that doesn't absolve them for the unholy operation they became complicit in! It just simply applies on  the enlistees but also the higher ups likes of Colin and Condi!
I challenge you to disprove that!
 
I'm not here to discuss the demographics of the amount of blacks who enlist, and quite frankly I don't find their enlistment relevant since, individuals enlist for various reasons.  But of course one enlisting in a military force is accountable for their actions just like we all are. Your rant proves nothing. I've never said blacks were not accountable but we are not talking about black or white we are talking about Jews. I challenge you to tell me something I don't know or I challenge you to make sense of your arguments instead of ranting and whinning like a little girl.
 

 You started this point, now listen what I am going to tell you- There are levels stages in people's state of slavishness, Jessie has his own and Obama has his and you have yours!

Wow you are really st**id aren't you. The insults keep on comin'

You haven't rebutted my point other than making your own %ages; who said it has to be 100 %, In democracy where you count 50% +1 of asses and you have your man in saddle, doesn't matter he or she white black blue Xtian Catholic or what ever as long as he sings from the their sheet of music!

Your arguments are general. You tend to use general terms to collective associate Jews with corrutible events e.g. the war in Afghanistan, Iraq. My response was to counteract that by denoting that powerful Jews are responsible, they are all not collectively responsible. Someone who is born Jewish is not accountable because  in ordeer to make them accountable you must find their individual action within an event that makes them accountable. You have not done that  except collectively associate Jews with corruption and many other things. This doesn't have to be complicated all I'm saying(without political jargon) all Jews cannot be responsible for the world's problems simple as that. I don't care who is Jewish or not in Obama's camp. Do you personally know these people well enough to make a statement?

 


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 25 July 2008 at 11:45pm
Originally posted by Israfil

Sign Reader:

Sounds like the rant of a racially prejudiced individual. Who are "you people?" If you are referring to blacks you might as well save your prejudices because I'm speaking for myself. I call your information crap because everything that comes out of your mouth in computational sense is crap.
When you use crap and call others like st**id, it is an indication of slippage of the professional detachment your high qualifications notwithstanding!
 
 
I'm not here to discuss the demographics of the amount of blacks who enlist, and quite frankly I don't find their enlistment relevant since, individuals enlist for various reasons.  But of course one enlisting in a military force is accountable for their actions just like we all are. Your rant proves nothing. I've never said blacks were not accountable but we are not talking about black or white we are talking about Jews. I challenge you to tell me something I don't know or I challenge you to make sense of your arguments instead of ranting and whinning like a little girl.
Well rant may be inconvenient truth! If I find black Americans being part of killing sprees in the Muslim lands while doing the dirty work for the Jewish  Neo cons (I gave the list that you ignored selectively) , you have an option to denounce it and show some empathy with  the hapless victims.
You need to be explicit about your stand!
You tell what countries have you traveled and what do you really know other than being a cop or excuse me the boss of some LA ghetto cops!

You can't play the both sides! Otherwise as Dr. Iqbal have said a century ago that the blacks soul is in whites' hand and his soul is in Jews hand and Jews soul is with the diablo! Of course there an exception to the rule there are few good people but where are they when there is so much injustice all around in the world!
Did you ever visit the scene of meanness by the local Jewish students and all if Palestinians tried to talk about the tragedy of the wall in Palestinian territories! They can't go for their Friday 's salat at Masjid aqsa living closeby!
 Last of their ugliness was at UCI south of where you live!
My next door neighbor is one I have to live with being nice and all I have to be as the Prophet told us their nastiness notwithstanding! The rights of the neighbors are prime!


Your arguments are general.

I gave you the list and you ignored! why?

You tend to use general terms to collective associate Jews with corrutible events e.g. the war in Afghanistan, Iraq.

Can you make some sense of your English?
Did you read the speech of the chief rabbi of Israel and that you call general! What a shame!
 No wonder reading too much of Rambam messed up your upstairs! You would need help sooner than you think!


 My response was to counteract that by denoting that powerful Jews are responsible, they are all not collectively responsible.
Read your post again and  think! You seem totally clueless even with a Phd my man! You are falling head over heels to protect the Jewish agenda and don't realize it!
Which side are you on, you are providing ammo for  Nur_Ilahi to make a call on you!
I won't call you names the way you do but then how could I not agree with what Iqbal said!

 Someone who is born Jewish is not accountable because  in ordeer to make them accountable you must find their individual action within an event that makes them accountable. You have not done that  except collectively associate Jews with corruption and many other things. This doesn't have to be complicated all I'm saying(without political jargon)
I agree! all are born guiltless but then they become Milkens, Goldsteins, Samuelis, Segals and http://nymag.com/movies/features/23146/ - Lucass(read at least till the page 2 how just one scum can pollute the holy land) and the list can go on! In case of last name just he alone is enough to infect the community worldwide and by no means he is alone your neighborhood of San Fernando valley has plenty like him!
The time and need for finding and convicting the Pollards and Rosenbergs is long past!
What kind of proof you looking for and you will see it!
Now they are in the saddle and the US has gone bonkers including this clown Obama!
It was sickening to see picture from Israel sympathizing with some Jewish settler along  with Ahud Barak ready to shed crocodile tears for a supposedly rocket damage which wasn't there! I ca understand cuz there are no Palestinian voters here the the injustice should go on- only just American at that stature is Jimmy Carter what is the name of his book "Palestine Peace Not Apartheid" speaks volumes about the collectively about Jews not individually!


 all Jews cannot be responsible for the world's problems simple as that. I don't care who is Jewish or not in Obama's camp. Do you personally know these people well enough to make a statement?
Yes I do! almost became a part of these folks when I was in Chicago and Allah saved me with his grace!
And just don't be a knucklehead-- I never said all the Jews and but enough to make even their own good ones are getting sick of them!
 


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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 27 July 2008 at 12:45am
When you use crap and call others like st**id, it is an indication of slippage of the professional detachment your high qualifications notwithstanding! 
 
It has nothing to do with the loss of credential but simple honesty. You are making a racial generalization quite prejudice at that. I don't put my academic credibility on the line when I call your statements crap they are as I perceive them.
 
Well rant may be inconvenient truth! If I find black Americans being part of killing sprees in the Muslim lands while doing the dirty work for the Jewish  Neo cons (I gave the list that you ignored selectively) , you have an option to denounce it and show some empathy with  the hapless victims.
 
I chose to not endulge in a list and for what? The discussion is about Jews and your accusations? TI'm not trying to make it a political discussion as you like I'm simply saying in a simple context, all Jews are not cupable for what other Jews do when they abuse their power. I seriously don't care to go down that path with you on discussing the list of  the board of governors and neoconservative groups its about the statements you made about Jews, period.
 
I gave you the list and you ignored! why?

Like I said this conversaiton is not about neoconservatives its about a generalization you continually make.

Can you make some sense of your English?
Sorry let me "dumb it down." You make generalizations grouping all Jews in one negative category using the current wars and the current issues in the middle east. This is  unfair generalization, but then again comparable to the beliefs of Farrakhan in the NOI.
 
Read your post again and  think! You seem totally clueless even with a Phd my man! You are falling head over heels to protect the Jewish agenda and don't realize it!

Wow you are an idiot. Do you not understanding? Powerful Jews who abuse their power must be judged INDEPEDENT of other jews across the world. It is therefore unfair to say "jews this, jews that" and judge them only citing the abuse made by Jews in political power. I'm saying there are millions of Jews across the world and all of them cannot be responsible for what other Jews do. A young Jewish boy from the bronx who plays baseball surely can't be responsible for what is going on in Palestine if he has not lived there. With respect to Dr. Iqbal I'm not going to dispute entirely what he says rather, I think the souls of some blacks are indeed in the hands of the majority and yes this chain plays on and on.

 
 

 


 
 


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 27 July 2008 at 1:28pm

The problem is that to you people every thing is crap!

(Hazrat Israfil – in his Amreekan mode)

 

Once upon a time, I had the pleasure or, you could say, immense delight of feeling that I had found a genuine philosophical friend, just a bit off the practical sense way, but nevertheless a great philosophical friend. I had hoped that we shall interact and cause to contribute some goodness to this pobre ailing and injured world, to the global atmosphere poluted by London and Washington thugs

 

Sadly, it didn’t take much time for the first layer of beauty and charm to peel off.

Over these past few months that I have been absent from this august Community, I notice that my role model seems to have turned into absolute, pure and simple American crap.

 

We call other everyone else crap only and when we are!



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Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 27 July 2008 at 11:22pm

Sadly, this dicussion of lingustical semantics is getting us nowhere.

I propose we end this here rather continue w/ this "crap."


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 29 July 2008 at 7:54pm
Originally posted by Israfil

Sadly, this dicussion of lingustical semantics is getting us nowhere.

I propose we end this here rather continue w/ this "crap."


The wise one!
Lucas item has nothing to do with the politics and others on that line!
You need to give in instead of doing the usual- crap- thing!


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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 29 July 2008 at 8:44pm

God's Chosen People

The American people have been led to believe that Jews are "God's Chosen People". This myth was started by a small group of Jews. A few Jewish leaders took excerpts from the Bible and interpreted them as "Chosen People". But, isn't it odd that it is not the religious Jews who claim to be "God's Chosen People." It is the atheistic non-believing Jews who claim that honor.

Leading the cry, "We are God's Chosen People" are the Zionist/Marxist (Ashkenazi) Jews who for political purposes chose Judaism and who don't have a drop of biblical Jewish blood in them.

One Israeli religious Jew said it well, "At one time we Jews were chosen by God to be his messengers. But, long ago we forfeited that right".

Anyone who has read the Bible with an open mind knows that God gave Jews of that time special favors. But, it was in the form of covenants. In these covenants were conditions — the conditions were that God demanded the Jews obey His Word. Time after time the Jews broke the covenants. They rejected God and turned to adoring mammon. It doesn't take a biblical scholar to realize that long ago even the real Jews lost the right of being God's chosen people.

In comparing the degree to which the followers of the 3 major religions practice their beliefs, I make this observation:

Judaism
— Few Jews, Sephardic or Ashkenazi, are religious. This is true in America, in Israel and world-wide.

Christianity — The Christians' religion has felt the influence of Jewish meddling and infiltration (especially in America) resulting in confusion and bickering between the various Christian denominations. This has led to a 'lukewarm' attitude among most Christians toward their religion. There is evidence to prove that Jews, or one of their many fronts, have started many of the Christian denominations and thus dominate doctrine.

Islam — Moslems, who follow the teachings of Islam, are by far the most fervent of the 3 major religions in following their religious beliefs.

The Judeo-Christian ethic we hear so much about in America is a big joke — the result of an intense Zionist propaganda campaign.

I'll toss in one last thought about the "God's Chosen People" myth: God said, 'Beware of those who call themselves Jews and are not, for they lie'. Could it be the Ashkenazi Jews are the people to whom God was referring?

  1. Because Israel has continuously been involved in war or preparing for war, the cream of Israel's youth are leaving Israel or they find some excuse to not serve in the armed forces. The Israeli Army is so short of manpower that it is openly recruiting homosexuals of which Israel has an abundant supply. In 1976 an Israeli army officer testifying before the Knesset (Israel's Congress) said in effect, if we do not recruit homosexuals, we will not have enough manpower to fill the ranks.
When the Zionist/Bolshevik Jews won control of the 'Holy Land', every form of sin began seeping into this land. Within a few short decades, this holy land became a modern-day Sodom and Gomorrah. Drug trade, drug abuse, illegal weapons sales, prostitution, gambling, labor racketeering, murder, extortion, blackmail, insurance fraud, loan sharking and corruption of government officials and police.

Israel has a highly organized crime syndicate headquartered in Bat-Yam near Tel Aviv. Many members of the crime syndicate are ex-convicts and ex-commandos from the Israeli Army and they are highly skilled in the use of weapons and explosives.

The crime syndicate in Israel operates openly because of corruption in government and police circles. Some of the police and government officials are actively associated with the crime operation. The average American doesn't hear of this, the real side of Israel, because the Zionist controlled press, radio and TV in America keeps silent about it. But, in Israel some newspapers report the facts. For instance: Right in the middle of page one of the Hebrew language newspapers a couple of years ago was an article that said in effect, what the Italian mafia couldn't accomplish in 40 years, the Israeli mafia accomplished in 5 years. It has developed the largest illegal drug exporting ring in the Mideast, selling drugs mainly to Germany and the U.S. They have even set up a distribution network within Germany and the U.S.

Except for a few religious Jews who have emotional religious ties to the holy sites in Israel, and lower class Jews who can't afford to leave, all other decent Jews have left or are planning to leave. One big reason is the sin permeating virtually every phase of Israeli society is too much for decent Jews to endure.

Israel's Racist Policies

You will recall that I mentioned my troubles in Israel began when I, an Ashkenazi Jew, married a Sephardic Jewess. Anti-Sephardic treatment by Ashkenazi Jews is even official government policy. This racism runs very deep in Israel and sharply divides the Jewish population.

One day, I entered a cafe in Tel Aviv. The place was crowded and I sat down on the only seat available. Also sitting at this table were 5 Sephardic Jews from Morocco. They learned that I was studying the Hebrew language, so they were helping me with my studies when a blue-eyed, Nazi-type Israeli police officer walked into the cafe.

He ordered me to "Get away from those Kooshim. 'Kooshim' in Hebrew means 'Niggers.'

I replied, "After I finish eating".

The officer drew his service revolver and said, "You move now!"

"You had better listen to him," the cafe owner advised. So, I got up.

Standing close to me, the officer pointed his gun right at my face and ordered, "Throw your coffee and pastry on the floor".

With a gun pointed at me, I didn't argue, I threw the coffee and pastry on the floor.

Then he said, "Get out of here and don't come back." Later, I learned that I was lucky. He could have arrested me if he had wished; and he could have even shot me under vague Israeli laws.

In the U.S., if anyone complains of police brutality or misconduct, there is an investigation, but not in Israel. The person registering a complaint can expect police reprisal in the form of a beating. Besides being denied decent housing and decent employment because I was married to a Sephardic Jewess, I was the target of racial slurs. Several times I was even attacked by Ashkenazi Jews because I had married a Sephardic Jewess. Other American Ashkenazi who had gone to Israel and married Sephardic Jewesses received the same treatment as I. Because Sephardic Jews are victims of the racist practices against them, I had often heard, in Israel, a Sephardic Jew tell a European Ashkenazi Jew, "Hitler didn't kill enough of you bastards".

 

But... I want to tell you one more thing. You talk about... "Oh, the Jews.
Why the Jews ? Christianity. Why, we got Christianity from the Jews and
the Jews gave us Jesus, and the Jews gave us our religion". But do you know
that on the day of atonement that you think is so sacred to them, that on that
day... and I was one of them ! This is not hearsay. I'm not here to be a
rabble-rouser. I'm here to give you facts.

When, on the Day of Atonement, you walk into a synagogue, the very first
prayer that you recite, you stand -- and it's the only prayer for which you
stand -- and you repeat three times a short prayer. The Kol Nidre. In that
prayer, you enter into an agreement with God Almighty that any oath, vow,
or pledge that you may make during the next twelve months -- any oath, vow
or pledge that you may take during the next twelve months shall be null and
void.
The oath shall not be an oath; the vow shall not be a vow; the pledge shall
not be a pledge. They shall have no force and effect, and so forth and so on.
And further than that, the Talmud teaches: "Don't forget -- whenever you
take an oath, vow, and pledge -- remember the Kol Nidre prayer that you
recited on the Day of Atonement, and that exempts you from fulfilling that".
How much can you depend on their loyalty ? You can depend upon their
loyalty as much as the Germans depended upon it in 1916.


From:Jack Bernstein



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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 29 July 2008 at 10:55pm
The American people have been led to believe that Jews are "God's Chosen People".
 
I would say "religionist" among the American people are led to believe these. These belief is predominantly spearheaded by conservative right-wing Christians.
 
But, isn't it odd that it is not the religious Jews who claim to be "God's Chosen People." It is the atheistic non-believing Jews who claim that honor.
 
Interesting.....
 
 Moslems, who follow the teachings of Islam, are by far the most fervent of the 3 major religions in following their religious beliefs.
 
I'm inclined to agree, but with this being said I can also say those who follow the doctrinal teachings exhibit the same behavior.
 
He ordered me to "Get away from those Kooshim. 'Kooshim' in Hebrew means 'Niggers.'
I'm surprised 'Kooshim' has an equivalent to the N* word, I'll have to asked some of my friends what this [actually] means if this is Hebrew.
 
Sign Reader* it would be helpful if you listed that reference that way I can cross-reference where you receive this information from. I thought it was an interesting read from the perspective of a Jewish person. Like any other cultural group there are intra-conflicts and self-hate. also this concept also reeks of ethnocentrism which, as we have seen maybe immoral Israelis exercising their given powers for the wrong reasons.
 
I still don't believe that all Jews are accountable for the few that have caused distress and evil in the world. Like any corrupted humans, thes eindividuals and countries that rpomote such hate are accountable for their own actions and this is unfortunate that such a behavior exists. However many individuals as well as religious groups promote this emntality, as mentioned before the right-wing Christians are doing this by supporting the biased American policy towards Israel. But this agenda is only supported by self-fulfilling prophecy not any altruistic concern for Jews themselves. People are playing people. I still don't think this individual experience by Jack Berstein still makes every single Jew accountable for what a whole gov't or the actions of few do.


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 29 July 2008 at 11:14pm

July 25, 2008

The Epiphany of Rev. Thomas Are

Are You Ready to Face the Facts About Israel?

“On October 21 (1948) the Government of Israel took a decision that was to have a lasting and divisive effect on the rights and status of those Arabs who lived within its borders: the official establishment of military government in the areas where most of the inhabitants were Arabs.”

Martin Gilbert, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1554700663/counterpunchmaga - Israel: a History

I had given up on finding an American with a moral conscience and the courage to go with it and was on the verge of retiring my keyboard when I met the Rev. Thomas L. Are.

Rev. Are is a Presbyterian pastor who used to tell his Atlanta, Georgia, congregation: “I am a Zionist.” Like most Americans, Rev. Are had been seduced by Israeli propaganda and helped to spread the propaganda among his congregation.

Around 1990 Rev. Are had an awakening for which he credits the Christian Canon of St. George’s Cathedral in Jerusalem and author Marc Ellis, co-editor of the book, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0807069000/counterpunchmaga - Beyond Occupation .

Realizing that his ignorance of the situation on the ground had made him complicit in great crimes, Rev. Are wrote a book hoping to save others from his mistake and perhaps in part to make amends, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0932863159/counterpunchmaga - Israeli Peace Palestinian Justice , published in Canada in 1994.

Rev. Are researched his subject and wrote a brave book. Keep in mind that 1994 was long prior to Walt and Mearsheimer’s recent book, which exposed the power of the Israel Lobby and its ability to control the explanation Americans receive about the “Israeli-Palestinian conflict.”

Rev. Are begins with an account of Israel’s opening attack on the Palestinians, an event which took place before most Americans alive today were born. He quotes the distinguished British historian, Arnold J. Toynbee: “The treatment of the Palestinian Arabs in 1947 (and 1948) was as morally indefensible as the slaughter of six million Jews by the Nazis. Though nor comparable in quantity to the crimes of the Nazis, it was comparable in quality.”

Golda Meir, considered by Israelis as a great leader and by others as one of history’s great killers, disputed the facts: “It was not as though there was a Palestinian people in Palestine and we came and threw them out and took their country away from them. They did not exist.”

Golda Meir’s apology for Israel’s great crimes is so counter-factual that it blows the mind. Palestinian refugee camps still exist outside Palestine filled with Palestinians and their descendants whose towns, villages, homes and lands were seized by the Israelis in 1948. Rev. Are provides the reader with Na’im Ateek’s description of what happened to him, an 11-year old, when the Jews came to take Beisan on May 12, 1948. Entire Palestinian communities simply disappeared.

In 1949 the United Nations counted 711,000 Palestinian refugees. [ http://domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/9a798adbf322aff38525617b006d88d7/93037e3b939746de8525610200567883%21OpenDocument - United Nations General Assembly Appendix 4, No. 15 ]

In 2005 the United Nations Relief and Works Agency estimated http://www.un.org/unrwa/publications/pdf/rr_countryandarea.pdf - 4.25 million Palestinians and their descendants were refugees from their homeland.

The Israeli policy of evicting non-Jews has continued for six decades. On June 19, 2008, the Laity Committee in the Holy Land reported in Window Into Palestine that the Israeli Ministry of Interior is taking away the residency rights of Jerusalem Christians who have been reclassified as “visitors in their own city.”

On December 10, 2007, MK Ephraim Sneh boasted in the Jerusalem Post that Israel had achieved “a true Zionist victory” over the UN partition plan “which sought to establish two nations in the land of Israel.” The partition plan had assigned Israel 56 percent of Palestine, leaving the inhabitants with only 44 percent. But Israel had altered this over time. Sneb proudly http://cgis.jpost.com/Blogs/sneh/entry/annapolis_a_true_zionist_victory - declared : “When we complete the permanent agreement, we will hold 78 percent of the land while the Palestinians will control 22 percent.”

Sneb could have added that the 22 percent is essentially a collection of unconnected ghettos cut off from one another and from roads, water, medical care, and jobs.

Rev. Are documents that the abuse of Palestinians’ human rights is official Israeli policy. Killings, torture, and beatings are routine. On May 17, 1990, the Washington Post reported that Save the Children “documented indiscriminate beating, tear-gassing and shooting of children at home or just outside the house playing in the street, who were sitting in the classroom or going to the store for groceries.”

On January 19, 1988, Israeli Defense Minister Yitzhak Rabin, later Prime Minister, announced the policy of “punitive beating” of Palestinians. The Israelis described the purpose of punitive beating: “Our task is to recreate a barrier and once again put the fear of death into the Arabs of the area.”

According to Save the Children, beatings of children and women are common. Rev. Are, citing the report in the Washington Post, writes: “Save the Children concluded that one-third of beaten children were under ten years old, and one-fifth under the age of five. Nearly a third of the children beaten suffered broken bones.”

On February 8, 1988, Newsweek magazine quoted an Israeli soldier: “ We got orders to knock on every door, enter and take out all the males. The younger ones we lined up with their faces against the wall, and soldiers beat them with billy clubs. This was no private initiative, these were orders from our company commander. . . . After one soldier finished beating a detainee, another soldier called him ‘you Nazi,’ and the first man shot back: ‘You bleeding heart.’ When one soldier tried to stop another from beating an Arab for no reason, a fist fight broke out.”

These were the old days before conscience was eliminated from the ranks of the Israeli military.

In the London Sunday Times, June 19, 1977, Ralph Schoenman, executive director of the Bertrand Russell Foundation, wrote: “Israeli interrogators routinely ill-treat and torture Arab prisoners. Prisoners are hooded or blindfolded and are hung by their wrists for long periods. Most are struck in the genitals or in other ways sexually abused. Most are sexually assaulted. Others are administered electric shock.”

Amnesty International concluded that “there is no country in the world in which the use of official and sustained torture is as well established and documented as in the case of Israel.”

Even the pro-Israeli Washington Post reported: “Upon arrest, a detainee undergoes a period of starvation, deprivation of sleep by organized methods and prolonged periods during which the prisoner is made to stand with his hands cuffed and raised, a filthy sack covering the head. Prisoners are dragged on the ground, beaten with objects, kicked, stripped and placed under ice-cold showers.”

Sounds like Abu Gharib. There are news reports that Israeli torture experts participated in the torture of the detainees assembled by the American military as part of the Bush Regime’s propaganda onslaught to convince Americans that Iraq was overflowing with al Qaeda terrorists. On July 23, 2008, Antiwar.com posted an Iraqi news report that the Iraqi government had released a total of 109,087 Iraqis that the Americans had “detained.” Obviously, these “terrorist detainees” had been used for the needs of Bush Regime propaganda. No one will ever know how many of them were abused by Israeli torturers imported by the CIA.

Rev. Are’s book makes sensible suggestions for resolving the conflict that Israel began. However, the problem is that Israeli governments believe only in force. The policy of the Israeli government has always been to beat, kill, and brutalize Palestinians into submission and flight. Anyone who doubts this can read the book of Israel’s finest historian Ilan Pappe, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1851685553/counterpunchmaga - The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine (2006).

Americans are a gullible and naive people. They have been complicit for 60 years in crimes that in Arnold Toynbee’s words “are comparable in quality” to the crimes of Nazi Germany. As Toynbee was writing decades ago, the accumulated Israeli crimes might now be comparable also in quantity.

The US routinely vetoes United Nations condemnations of Israel for its brutal crimes against the Palestinians. Insouciant American taxpayers have been bled for a half century to provide the Israelis with superior military weapons with which Israelis assault their neighbors, all the while convincing America--essentially a captive nation--that Israel is the victim.

John F. Mahoney wrote: “Thomas Are reminds me of Dietrich Bonhoeffer: an active pastor who comes to the unsettling realization that he and his people have been fed a terrible lie that is killing and torturing thousands of innocent men, women and children. Not without ample research and prayer does such a pastor, in turn, risk unsettling his congregation. The Reverend Are has done his homework and, I suspect, has prayed often and long during the writing of this courageous book.”

Bonhoeffer was a Lutheran theologian and pastor who was executed for his active participation in the German Resistance against Nazism.

Professor Benjamin M. Weir, San Francisco Theological Seminary, wrote: “ This book will make the reader squirm. It asks you to lend your voice in behalf of the voiceless.”

Americans who can no longer think for themselves and who are terrified of disapproval by their peer group are incapable of lending their voices to anyone except those who control the world of propaganda in which they live.

The ignorance and unconcern of Americans is a great frustration to my friends in the Israeli peace movement. Without outside support those Israelis, who believe in good will and do not share their government’s belief in Lenin’s doctrine that violence is the only effective force in history, are deprived, by America’s support for their government’s policy of violence, of any peaceful resolution of a conflict began in 1947 by Israeli aggression against unsuspecting Palestinian villages.

Rev. Are wrote his book with the hope that the pen is mightier than the sword and that facts can crowd out propaganda and create a framework for a just resolution of the Palestinian issue. In his concluding chapter, “What Christians Can Do,” Rev. Are writes: “We cannot allow others to dictate our thinking on any subject, especially on anything as important as Christian faithfulness, which is tested by an attitude towards seeking justice for the oppressed. It’s a Christian’s duty to know.”

Duty, of course, has costs. Rev. Are writes: “Speak up for the Palestinians and you will make enemies. Yet, as Christians, we must be willing to raise issues that until now we have chosen to dodge.”

More than a decade later, President Jimmy Carter, a true friend of Israel, tried again to awaken Americans’ moral conscience with his book, Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid.
Carter was instantly demonized by the Israel Lobby.

Sixty years of efforts by good and humane people to hold Israel accountable have so far failed, but they are more important today than ever before. Israel has its captive American nation on the verge of attacking Iran, the consequences of which could be catastrophic for all concerned. The alleged purpose of the attack is to eliminate nonexistent Iranian nuclear weapons. The real reason is to eliminate all support for Hamas and Hezbollah so that Israel can seize the entire West Bank and southern Lebanon. The Bush regime is eager to do Israel’s bidding, and the media and evangelical “christian” churches have been preparing the American people for the event.

It is paradoxical that Israel is demonstrating that veracity lies not in the Christian belief in good will but in Lenin’s doctrine that violence is the effective force in history and that the evangelical Christian Zionist churches agree.

Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal editorial page and Contributing Editor of National Review. He is coauthor of http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/076152553X/counterpunchmaga - The Tyranny of Good Intentions. He can be reached at: mailto:paulcraigroberts@yahoo.com - paulcraigroberts@yahoo.com



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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.



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