Print Page | Close Window

No One in America is Safe

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Politics
Forum Name: Current Events
Forum Discription: Current Events
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12677
Printed Date: 19 April 2014 at 6:11pm


Topic: No One in America is Safe
Posted By: Sign*Reader
Subject: No One in America is Safe
Date Posted: 21 June 2008 at 11:08pm

No One in America is Safe--From the Government

A Totally Lawless Regime

Think about this question: In the 21st century what regime is more lawless than the Bush Regime?

Everyone is entitled to his own answer. The only answer I can come up with is the Zimbabwe regime of Robert Mugabe. Voted out of power in the last election, the great man hasn’t left. Zimbabweans are going to have to vote again, and the great man has said that any vote that is not for him will be cancelled by a bullet.

Does anyone remember how determined the British and the Americans and everyone else was to turn Rhodesia over to Mugabe in order to save Rhodesia from the evil Ian Smith? What a fool everyone was.

But before we laugh at those fools, we had best laugh at ourselves, or cry.

It is now an incontrovertible fact, known all over the world, that George W. Bush and his regime lied through their teeth in order to launch wars of aggression against Afghanistan and Iraq, and that the Bush regime is doing the same thing again in hopes of launching an attack on Iran.

There have been a number of memoirs from high ranking Bush appointees who cannot stand all the lies. Bush’s first Secretary of the Treasury, Paul O’Neill, told us that an invasion of Iraq was on the agenda prior to 9/11. There is the leaked Downing Street Memo in which the head of British Intelligence told the British Prime Minister and his cabinet that the Americans have decided to attack Iraq and are creating the “intelligence” to justify the attack.

And now we have the White House’s own spokesman from 2003-2006, Scot McClellen, ratifying what we all already knew, that President Bush deceived us and led us into war based entirely on lies and fabrications, and that he, Scott McClellen, was deceived into issuing a false public denial that top Cheney aide Scooter Libby and White House operative Karl Rove were involved in committing a felony under US law by revealing the identity of a covert CIA operative, Valerie Plame.

As a consequence of Bush’s lies, there are a million dead Iraqis, mostly women and children, and four million displaced Iraqis, 4,100 dead American soldiers and tens of thousands of seriously wounded. No one knows how many dead in Afghanistan. And there is the ongoing Israeli slaughter of Palestinians and Lebanese that has fallen under the rubric of the “war on terror.”

The only ones pleased with these wars are the American neoconservatives, the Israeli right-wing, the US corporate military-security complex, and Osama bin Laden.

The Bush regime has created enormous hatred and disrespect for the United States. A recent world wide poll found that George W. Bush ranks at the bottom of world leaders as one of the least trusted along with US Pakistani puppet Musharraf and the Iranian president, Ahmadinejad, who has the disadvantage of being the victim of demonization by the US and European corporate-controlled media, which serves as ministries of propaganda for the governments that control their broadcast licenses. The American and European media lie for their living.

The two leaders with the highest approval rating are UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon and Russian President Vladimir Putin.

So, the old adversary, Russia, now has a more respected leader than the “leader” of the Great Free Nation, a Great Free Nation that has sat on its hands while its “leader” destroyed America’s civil liberties, America’s reputation, the jobs of Americans, and committed the US to a course of war crimes punishable by the International Criminal Court at the Hague.

A number of readers took issue with my recent column, “ http://www.counterpunch.com/roberts06162008.html - Elect Obama or Fall Into Tyranny .” Echoing former Alabama Governor George Wallace, readers said Obama would make no difference. But that is what I wrote.

My point was not that Obama would make any difference, as he has put himself and his administration into the hands of Wall Street and the Israel Lobby. I said that the American people could make a difference by rejecting the Republicans, as it was the only accountability that the Republicans were likely to suffer.

If Americans return a Republican regime, Americans will validate the right of the president to violate with impunity US and international law. Americans will validate the use by the president of the United States of deception and lies in order to initiate wars of aggression, aggression that is a war crime under the Nuremburg standard established by the US. Americans will validate the infringement of US civil liberties in the name of “safety” and “national security.” Americans will disembowel the US Constitution and leave themselves at the total mercy of the government.

Reelecting Republicans means the end of the United States as a land of liberty.

I am sympathetic to the argument that we, as a country of liberty, are near our end regardless. Look at the Democrats. Today, June 20, the House of Representatives, which the voters gave to the Democrats in the 2006 congressional elections in order to end the pointless barbarity that the US has brought to Iraq, voted the largest war-spending bill ever. The “antiwar” Democrats completely collapsed, giving the warmonger Brownshirt Republican regime everything it wanted.

The House Democrats, led by “impeachment-is-off-the-table” Nancy Pelosi, added to the Democratic Party’s shame by passing today, June 20, a bill that shields from punishment the criminal Bush regime and the telecommunications corporations that the Bush regime coerced into committing felonies under US law by cooperating in Bush’s illegal spying on American citizens.

The great hope of the Founding Fathers, the people’s house, the House of Representatives, has passed an illegal and unconstitutional retroactive law making acts legal which were illegal when they were committed.

If a Democratic House of Representatives will pass a retroactive law in order to legalize the criminal violations of a Republican regime, the same House will pass a retroactive law making illegal what you did legally yesterday. No one is any longer safe in America. By abandoning the US Constitution, Republicans and Democrats have made America as potentially unsafe as Zimbabwe for anyone who takes exception to the government.

The total collapse of the Democratic Party and the House of Representatives signals the end of liberty and democracy in America. Henceforth, led by the Republican Federalist Society, we will gravitate toward the beautiful regime of “energy in the executive” that has been achieved in Zimbabwe by Robert Mugabe.

Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal editorial page and Contributing Editor of National Review. He is coauthor of http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/076152553X/counterpunchmaga - The Tyranny of Good Intentions. He can be reached at: mailto:paulcraigroberts@yahoo.com - paulcraigroberts@yahoo.com



-------------
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.



Replies:
Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 22 June 2008 at 9:25pm
Very good article. Was a nice read.


Posted By: abuayisha
Date Posted: 24 June 2008 at 8:17am
Originally posted by Sign*Reader

It is now an incontrovertible fact, known all over the world, that George W. Bush and his regime lied through their teeth in order to launch wars of aggression against Afghanistan and Iraq,
 
It is my recollection that Afghanistan had almost worldwide acceptance, and even in the Arab and Islamic world.  The build up to war in Iraq was totally different and should not now be joined with Afghanistan, even though today, the quagmire is synonymous.


Posted By: Salams_wife
Date Posted: 24 June 2008 at 7:01pm
I was thinking the same thing brother Abuayisha.  They are two seperate wars though both were started by the US.
 
I am sad to see some of our freedoms going with only the smallest cry to stop them.


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 24 June 2008 at 10:44pm
Originally posted by abuayisha

Originally posted by Sign*Reader

It is now an incontrovertible fact, known all over the world, that George W. Bush and his regime lied through their teeth in order to launch wars of aggression against Afghanistan and Iraq,
 
It is my recollection that Afghanistan had almost worldwide acceptance, and even in the Arab and Islamic world.  The build up to war in Iraq was totally different and should not now be joined with Afghanistan, even though today, the quagmire is synonymous.

There was no formal UN security council's resolution where the nations opinion be recorded to attack  Afghanistan, was there? The three who had ambassadors in Afghanistan Saudi Arabia, UAE withdrew along Pakistani dictator Mush just buckled under and did the most cowardly act of handing over the Afghan ambassador to the US. This was a preplanned Anglo American operation with a custom ordered excuse to run with it! The most attackers were Saudis! What gives?


-------------
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: aspacia
Date Posted: 28 June 2008 at 11:27am
Isn't it grand to be  a U.S. citizenSmile  What a wonderful land where "we the people" are protected under the First Amendments to slam the government. 




-------------
Curious


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 01 July 2008 at 6:21pm
Originally posted by aspacia

Isn't it grand to be  a U.S. citizenSmile  What a wonderful land where "we the people" are protected under the First Amendments to slam the government. 




Just like the moron bugs slamming a locomotive with lots of effect! LOL



-------------
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: aspacia
Date Posted: 02 July 2008 at 6:57am
We the people have more power than you believe. We stopped illegal immigration/amnesty in its tracks.  We have the power to vote Congress and the President out of power.Wink

-------------
Curious


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 19 July 2008 at 10:51am
It is my recollection that Afghanistan had almost worldwide acceptance, and even in the Arab and Islamic world.  The build up to war in Iraq was totally different and should not now be joined with Afghanistan, even though today, the quagmire is synonymous.
 
There were other other nobler options for Afghanistan, but these didn't offer the prospect of limitless profits, for the US Corporatocracy that the war does.
 
The Afghans in general are now bleeding the NATO in Afghanistan in broad day light.


-------------
Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 19 July 2008 at 10:53am
We the people have more power than you believe. We stopped illegal immigration/amnesty in its tracks.  We have the power to vote Congress and the President out of power.Wink
 
Do you come every monsoon or is it just some special appearance?


-------------
Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 19 July 2008 at 11:17am
Originally posted by aspacia

We the people have more power than you believe. We stopped illegal immigration/amnesty in its tracks.  We have the power to vote Congress and the President out of power.Wink
 
We the people actually have very little power. We vote on what we are given to vote upon and rarely are we the people given the option to truly choose who or what that might be. 
 
Case in point, the Presidential election where we have perhaps seven or eight candidates to choose from to begin with, then the super delegates choose two that we are supposed to vote for, but the Electoral College actually elects the President. Popular vote really doesn't count.   If we truly had power and could vote for whomever we wanted there would be hundreds of choices and we the people would ACTUALLY get to vote. 
And as the 2000 election attests, even the Electoral College can be usurped and the office of President assigned by the Supreme Court.
 
We the people cannot impeach the president no matter what he has done. The House Judiciary Committee must draw up the Articles of Impeachment and The House of Representatives must impeach, then send the Articles to the Senate where two thirds of the Senate must vote for impeachment.
 
We the people cannot even submit a Bill of Law to be considered for passage without a representative or senator to sponsor or introduce the bill. So if you don't have a member of the government willing to sponsor your law then you are totally helpless.  Clearly we the people have no power when it comes to passing laws in this country.
 
So, in reality we the people of the United States have very little power at all.  We have given it all away to the government which now refuses to give it back, and we have become too lazy or ignorant to do anything about it.


-------------
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: aspacia
Date Posted: 19 July 2008 at 11:29am
Originally posted by Salams_wife

I was thinking the same thing brother Abuayisha.  They are two seperate wars though both were started by the US.
 
I am sad to see some of our freedoms going with only the smallest cry to stop them.


I beg to differ with you.  bin Laden declared war on us in 1993, and we weren't listening.  We did not start the Afghanistan war, the Taliban aided and abetted those who attacked our civilians.


-------------
Curious


Posted By: aspacia
Date Posted: 19 July 2008 at 11:53am
Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt

Originally posted by aspacia

We the people have more power than you believe. We stopped illegal immigration/amnesty in its tracks.  We have the power to vote Congress and the President out of power.Wink
 
We the people actually have very little power. We vote on what we are given to vote upon and rarely are we the people given the option to truly choose who or what that might be.


LOL, we have the power to write and petition for new laws.  We the people frequently do this.

 
Case in point, the Presidential election where we have perhaps seven or eight candidates to choose from to begin with, then the super delegates choose two that we are supposed to vote for,


This is a Democratic phenomena, no other party has this nonsense.  I should know, as I was a Democrat for 50+ years.


but the Electoral College actually elects the President. Popular vote really doesn't count.


True, and I am pleased you know this.  The Founding Fathers created this as they did not really trust the "unwashed masses."  These folks were rich, White elitists.

Kennedy won the Electoral vote, Nixon the popular.  This frequently occurs.

  If we truly had power and could vote for whomever we wanted there would be hundreds of choices and we the people would ACTUALLY get to vote.

You may write in any name you choose, I have written in Mickey Mouse more than once.LOL

And as the 2000 election attests, even the Electoral College can be usurped and the office of President assigned by the Supreme Court.


Most of whom were appointed by Bush Sr. 
 
We the people cannot impeach the president no matter what he has done. The House Judiciary Committee must draw up the Articles of Impeachment and The House of Representatives must impeach, then send the Articles to the Senate where two thirds of the Senate must vote for impeachment.


True, and who votes these folks into power?  We the people.  Who votes them out when we are ticked off ?  We the people.  Why do you think California has Arnold as a governor?  We ditched Gray Davis.
 
We the people cannot even submit a Bill of Law to be considered for passage without a representative or senator to sponsor or introduce the bill.


If enough people sign the petition for a new law, their representative had better sponsor it, or he/she will be history after a recall election.

So if you don't have a member of the government willing to sponsor your law then you are totally helpless.  Clearly we the people have no power when it comes to passing laws in this country.

Not so.  Try to lose the victim identification, petition your representatives, governors, mayors, etc.  I sure do.  That is, I raise hell, write, call, send faxes when angry or pleased with what those on my payroll do.  Heck, I pay enough in taxes, they had better listen.
 
[quote]So, in reality we the people of the United States have very little power at all.  We have given it all away to the government which now refuses to give it back, and we have become too lazy or ignorant to do anything about it.


If the people choose laziness and ignorance, do not vote, etc. they deserve no better.  Those who make their voices heard, are usually listened to.  Wbya and McCain backed off Amnesty, but the Congress keeps attempting do push this through a piece at a time.  Just keep reminding them who they work for, and that you are not pleased.  I sure do.


-------------
Curious


Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 19 July 2008 at 5:48pm

"So if you don't have a member of the government willing to sponsor your law then you are totally helpless.  Clearly we the people have no power when it comes to passing laws in this country.

Not so.  Try to lose the victim identification, petition your representatives, governors, mayors, etc.  I sure do.  That is, I raise hell, write, call, send faxes when angry or pleased with what those on my payroll do.  Heck, I pay enough in taxes, they had better listen."

How many laws have you personally passed?

70% of Americans are unhappy with the current administration yet this fact has not curtailed their activities at all. Hardly a government of the people since it is not representing the majority of those it governs, or is that not a criteria?
 
I'm no victim, more of a realist.


-------------
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 19 July 2008 at 5:58pm
Originally posted by aspacia

Originally posted by Salams_wife

I was thinking the same thing brother Abuayisha.  They are two seperate wars though both were started by the US.
 
I am sad to see some of our freedoms going with only the smallest cry to stop them.


I beg to differ with you.  bin Laden declared war on us in 1993, and we weren't listening.  We did not start the Afghanistan war, the Taliban aided and abetted those who attacked our civilians.
 
If you want to look at it that way, the U.S. declared war with the Middle East oil nations when it helped to assassinate elected leaders in Iran and Iraq for trying to nationalize the oil fields, helped to keep the tyrant monarchy of the Sauds and other tyrant regimes in power.
 
Our government has been responsible for the deaths of untold civilians in the Middle East. Sounds like war to me.


-------------
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 19 July 2008 at 9:10pm
I beg to differ with you.  bin Laden declared war on us in 1993, and we weren't listening. 
Will you invite me to your 15th birthday?
So Bin Laden just declared war as if it were part of some script written by some cocaine junkie?
And, it had nada to do with the American occupation of Muslim lands?
And, he had a following only because people didn't like the American faces?
Just like that!
No causes, just the effect. Love your poetry.


-------------
Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: aspacia
Date Posted: 20 July 2008 at 7:09am
Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt

"So if you don't have a member of the government willing to sponsor your law then you are totally helpless.  Clearly we the people have no power when it comes to passing laws in this country.

Not so.  Try to lose the victim identification, petition your representatives, governors, mayors, etc.  I sure do.  That is, I raise hell, write, call, send faxes when angry or pleased with what those on my payroll do.  Heck, I pay enough in taxes, they had better listen."

How many laws have you personally passed?

We are not helpless, and I have distributed and signed many a petition that came to fruition.  If my representatives do not do as I deem fit, they hear about it through phone calls, faxes, and letters.


70% of Americans are unhappy with the current administration yet this fact has not curtailed their activities at all. Hardly a government of the people since it is not representing the majority of those it governs, or is that not a criteria?
 


We are more ticked off at Congress, who popularity is lower than the White House.
I'm no victim, more of a realist.


Then try to realize your voice, and try to lose the "helpless" mindset.


-------------
Curious


Posted By: aspacia
Date Posted: 20 July 2008 at 9:27am
Originally posted by Whisper

I beg to differ with you.  bin Laden declared war on us in 1993, and we weren't listening. 
Will you invite me to your 15th birthday?


This is an ad hominem attack.  Wink  I am probably much older, and far better educated than most on this site. 
 
So Bin Laden just declared war as if it were part of some script written by some cocaine junkie?
And, it had nada to do with the American occupation of Muslim lands?
And, he had a following only because people didn't like the American faces?
Just like that!
No causes, just the effect. Love your poetry.


bin Laden is worried about Western contamination of Islamic culture.   We helped him oust the Soviets, and then he and the Taliban created one of the most totalitarian, theocratic regimes in the Middle-East. 

Occupation?  Iraq had free elections, and has Sharia Law.  This irks many citizens, but this is Iraq, and the people must make their own laws.

Al Quaida is on the run with its tail tucked between its tails.   That is, we are winning. 

BTW, prose, not poetry is more my game.LOL




-------------
Curious


Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 20 July 2008 at 11:34am
Al Quaida is on the run with its tail tucked between its tails.   That is, we are winning. 
 
Winning? What are we winning? Do tell.. We are ain debt, hundreds of thousands of people are dead or maimed all throughout the region and in this country. Fuel and food prices are through the roof in many places and people are starving.
 
We spent billions of dollars to go after who?? The US is in debt for years to come..
 
We have destabalized regions. We are still fighting the "Taliban" in Afghanistan.. we run the mayor of Kabul-Karzi... We control little of that country.. and we helped a country with continual invasions to be invaded again.. therefore not allowing anything to come to those people.
 
We are hated in the world, whereas that used to not be the case.. or shall I say it is mostly the US govt.. but the US citizens seem not to care and keep voting them into office.. so maybe it is the US population..
 
We went to war for oil and poftits and yet have the US people benefitted with anything close to cheap oil and gas? Because the current government and its cronies in certain businesses act without impunity..the small person all over the world is being squeezed.
 
Considering anyone with knowledge from inside,, we have no idea what we are doing in Iraq.. the sands are shifting.. and who really is Al-Queda in Iraq.. lots of smokesscreens to peer through..
 
The only people who are "winning" are the multibillion corporations.


-------------
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi


Posted By: Salams_wife
Date Posted: 20 July 2008 at 11:53am
Originally posted by Hayfa

Al Quaida is on the run with its tail tucked between its tails.   That is, we are winning. 
 
Winning? What are we winning? Do tell.. We are ain debt, hundreds of thousands of people are dead or maimed all throughout the region and in this country. Fuel and food prices are through the roof in many places and people are starving.
 
We spent billions of dollars to go after who?? The US is in debt for years to come..
 
We have destabalized regions. We are still fighting the "Taliban" in Afghanistan.. we run the mayor of Kabul-Karzi... We control little of that country.. and we helped a country with continual invasions to be invaded again.. therefore not allowing anything to come to those people.
 
We are hated in the world, whereas that used to not be the case.. or shall I say it is mostly the US govt.. but the US citizens seem not to care and keep voting them into office.. so maybe it is the US population..
 
We went to war for oil and poftits and yet have the US people benefitted with anything close to cheap oil and gas? Because the current government and its cronies in certain businesses act without impunity..the small person all over the world is being squeezed.
 
Considering anyone with knowledge from inside,, we have no idea what we are doing in Iraq.. the sands are shifting.. and who really is Al-Queda in Iraq.. lots of smokesscreens to peer through..
 
The only people who are "winning" are the multibillion corporations.
 
Agreed.  Good points.


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 20 July 2008 at 1:15pm
Hayfa and Salam's Wife why not let the pobre chap win in his most special fool's paradise?

-------------
Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 20 July 2008 at 1:20pm
I am probably much older, and far better educated than most on this site.
 
It's an established fact that when we are lacking somewhere, we compensate by laying such tall claims. I simply wish all this education could reflect, even as a shadow, somehow, somewhere.
 
But, never mind, we have seen quite a few Fool Blooded Amreekans here in our time.


-------------
Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 20 July 2008 at 1:32pm
Actually far from tucking tail and running the Taliban have had a resurgence in Afghanistan and last month more U.S. soldiers died in Afghanistan than in Iraq. Not to mention all of the civilians killed in U.S. bombings.
 
Al Qaeda was not in Iraq until we let them in, if they are indeed there. How will we ever know between the invading troops, the militias, the death squads and all of the other factions our government unleashed in it's quest for oil and domination in the Middle East.
 
Occupation?  Iraq had free elections, and has Sharia Law.  This irks many citizens, but this is Iraq, and the people must make their own laws.
 
Well, if you call elections under a military occupation by a country that handpicked the leaders free elections then you are right. Iraq is far from under Shariah law. As long as the U.S. military is the true governing authority in Iraq then they are under martial law. And once the military pulls out, although our military never completely pulls out of a country once we have gone in, then there will be genocide.
 
So yeah, I would say that we are winning...  Let's get ready to goose step into Iran.
 


-------------
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 20 July 2008 at 1:35pm
"This is an ad hominem attack.  Wink  I am probably much older, and far better educated than most on this site."
 
This is an argumentum ad hominem....


-------------
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: mariyah
Date Posted: 20 July 2008 at 1:38pm
Originally posted by aspacia

Originally posted by Whisper

I beg to differ with you.  bin Laden declared war on us in 1993, and we weren't listening. 
Will you invite me to your 15th birthday?


This is an ad hominem attack.  Wink  I am probably much older, and far better educated than most on this site. 


Wonderful, tell me my  arrogant friend, do you really know whose company you keep when posting on this website. The person you are addressing AKA Whisper is light years ahead of you. Perhaps you should substitute "Indoctrinated" instead of "Educated. BTW, have you ever ventured out of your special little world and experienced other cultures?
 
So Bin Laden just declared war as if it were part of some script written by some cocaine junkie?
And, it had nada to do with the American occupation of Muslim lands?
And, he had a following only because people didn't like the American faces?
Just like that!
No causes, just the effect. Love your poetry.


bin Laden is worried about Western contamination of Islamic culture.   We helped him oust the Soviets, and then he and the Taliban created one of the most totalitarian, theocratic regimes in the Middle-East. 

Occupation?  Iraq had free elections, and has Sharia Law.  This irks many citizens, but this is Iraq, and the people must make their own laws.

Al Quaida is on the run with its tail tucked between its tails.   That is, we are winning. 

BTW, prose, not poetry is more my game.LOL
[/QUOTE]
 
 
And tell me most educated one, if Al Queda is running why hasn't the "most elite" army in the world caught the cave dweller known as Bin Laden?
Guess it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt! We all have our bad days..
fools paradise!



-------------
"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.


Posted By: Salams_wife
Date Posted: 20 July 2008 at 1:40pm
Originally posted by Whisper

Hayfa and Salam's Wife why not let the pobre chap win in his most special fool's paradise?
 
I suppose ignorance is bliss at times.


Posted By: aspacia
Date Posted: 21 July 2008 at 7:26am
Originally posted by Hayfa

Al Quaida is on the run with its tail tucked between its tails.   That is, we are winning. 
 
Winning? What are we winning? Do tell.. We are ain debt, hundreds of thousands of people are dead or maimed all throughout the region and in this country. Fuel and food prices are through the roof in many places and people are starving.
 
We spent billions of dollars to go after who?? The US is in debt for years to come..


You are repeating many of the left's claims.  The left made this same claim regarding the First Gulf War against Saddam.  Within four years, we had a surplus.

We took out a bad guy, who massacred, murdered, and tortured his own people.  For twelve years he would not abide by the sanctions, and was aided and abetted by several members of the UN.  To date, the UN refuses to make transparent the Oil for Food documentation.
 
We have destabalized regions. We are still fighting the "Taliban" in Afghanistan.. we run the mayor of Kabul-Karzi... We control little of that country.. and we helped a country with continual invasions to be invaded again.. therefore not allowing anything to come to those people.


The region was already destabilized and very violent.  That is, lawless.  Many from this area were attacking their corrupt governments, Western business interests, but also massacring other Muslims.  To date, more Muslims have been murdered by their brethren, than any Western or Israeli force.
 
We are hated in the world, whereas that used to not be the case..


Nope, the Ugly American phenomena was around Europe during the 50's. Europeans and Brits often said they do not like the Yanks in spite of the fact we saved them, and rebuilt our mortal enemy's infastructure.  LOL, when I was ten,  my British Uncle Bill once told me that he did not like Yanks.

quote] or shall I say it is mostly the US govt.. but the US citizens seem not to care and keep voting them into office.. so maybe it is the US population..[/quote]

At least we vote, and 48% voted for Gore and Kerry.  Most in the Middle-East, China, South America, Africa do not have this option.  Also, I, (long-term Democrat) and my long-term Republican other, did not vote for Bush either time.
 
We went to war for oil and poftits


Many make this claim.  However, I disagree and believe Iraq was invaded more as an act of revenge because Hussain attempted to assassinate Bush Sr. 

True, wars are very expensive; it would have been cheaper in blood and gold to lift the sanctions. 

and yet have the US people benefited with anything close to cheap oil and gas?


No, but the Iraqis soon may, at lease most citizens hope so, for their sake and for our geopolitical interests.

Because the current government and its cronies in certain businesses act without impunity..the small person all over the world is being squeezed.


Really, what about Enron, ToyKo, etc.?  Halliburton was fined as well.  Generally, these interests do have too much influence in Congress.
 
Considering anyone with knowledge from inside,, we have no idea what we are doing in Iraq.. the sands are shifting.. and who really is Al-Queda in Iraq.. lots of smokesscreens to peer through..
 
The only people who are "winning" are the multibillion corporations.


I hope you are wrong, and more than one watchdog group is going after government contractors.  One is currently serving time for selling unstable ammunition.

BTW, I do not trust any politician, world leader or business interests.  Many, like Kennedy, Rummy, Cheney, Arnold, are simply opportunistic power seekers who are very rich in their own right.  This sentiment hold true for all world and business leaders, especially the UN.Wink


-------------
Curious


Posted By: aspacia
Date Posted: 21 July 2008 at 7:31am
Originally posted by Whisper

Hayfa and Salam's Wife why not let the pobre chap win in his most special fool's paradise?


LMFAO, this person is no fool, and is female.  Also, I believe it is a sin in Islam to call a person a fool.  I know it is in Christianity.  Read Matthew for insight.LOL


-------------
Curious


Posted By: aspacia
Date Posted: 21 July 2008 at 7:42am
Originally posted by Whisper

I am probably much older, and far better educated than most on this site.
 
It's an established fact that when we are lacking somewhere, we compensate by laying such tall claims. I simply wish all this education could reflect, even as a shadow, somehow, somewhere.
 
But, never mind, we have seen quite a few Fool Blooded Amreekans here in our time.


Too funny, I only stated the facts because a poster thought I was still a teenager.

Only half, I am a fourth Scots, and a fourth Brit.  That is, Celt and Anglo Saxon. 

Oh, another double entendre, personal attack, or is it just an attack against all U.S. citizens? 

I continually hear the xenophobe card played here against the U.S., however, it is more apparent in the posters who lose a claim.  LOL


-------------
Curious


Posted By: aspacia
Date Posted: 21 July 2008 at 7:54am
Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt

Actually far from tucking tail and running the Taliban have had a resurgence in Afghanistan and last month more U.S. soldiers died in Afghanistan than in Iraq. Not to mention all of the civilians killed in U.S. bombings.


Specifically, nine were killed by the Taliban.  It was an outpost of 75 troops, and the Taliban had 200.  The payback, similar to Falluja, will not be pleasant for the Taliban.  Remember, we have drones entering Pakistan and nailing the bad guys.  Or, do you support the Taliban, and how they ruled when in power?
 
Al Qaeda was not in Iraq until we let them in, if they are indeed there.


They did have a few training camps, and Saddam was giving a chunk of change to suicide bombers' families.

How will we ever know between the invading troops, the militias, the death squads and all of the other factions our government unleashed in it's quest for oil and domination in the Middle East.


Again with the oil card!  I hope that the Iraqis will benefit from the oil contracts recently initiated by other countries, not only the U.S.  I hope this allows gainful employment for the Iraqis. They benefit, and so do we.
 
Occupation?  Iraq had free elections, and has Sharia Law.  This irks many citizens, but this is Iraq, and the people must make their own laws.
 
Well, if you call elections under a military occupation by a country that handpicked the leaders free elections then you are right. Iraq is far from under Shariah law. As long as the U.S. military is the true governing authority in Iraq then they are under martial law. And once the military pulls out, although our military never completely pulls out of a country once we have gone in, then there will be genocide.


We are staying to prevent a genocide and to protect our interests, and this is a Middle-Eastern ally on Syria and Iran's doorstep.  Be happy the Surge is working.
 
So yeah, I would say that we are winning...  Let's get ready to goose step into Iran.


The goose step is an Arab trait.  Mein Kampf and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion are best sellers in the Middle-East.

Does the U.S. implement numerous covert and overt violent actions.  Yes, but so do many other countries.  Remember Black Hawk Down?  We were sending food to the starving Somalia, and 18 of our troops were massacred.  We also send supplies to Burma, now Myamar.


-------------
Curious


Posted By: aspacia
Date Posted: 21 July 2008 at 9:16am
Originally posted by mariyah

Originally posted by aspacia

Originally posted by Whisper

I beg to differ with you.  bin Laden declared war on us in 1993, and we weren't listening. 
Will you invite me to your 15th birthday?


This is an ad hominem attack.  Wink  I am probably much older, and far better educated than most on this site. 


Wonderful, tell me my  arrogant friend,

Another personal attack that is off topic.  Stating facts is not arrogance.

do you really know whose company you keep when posting on this website.


Nope, just curious and attempting to understand.


The person you are addressing AKA Whisper is light years ahead of you.


Never said he/she was or was not.  What has this to do with the topic?

Perhaps you should substitute "Indoctrinated" instead of "Educated.


Too funny considering the fact that the two universities I attended are very liberal.  Actually, several of my teachers were avowed communists, and disliked capitalism.    FYI, I read Gulf News, Ah-Ahrem, Al Jazeera, Palestinian Chronicle, along with liberal and conservative Western and Israeli media.  That is, I peruse both Haaretz and Arutz Sheva for insight regarding the issues;

http://www.themedialine.org/
http://www.mideastweb.org/nutshell.htm

That is, I attempt to understand all sides of the debate. 

Again, typical intolerance for an opposing viewpoint.  How very sad.

BTW, have you ever ventured out of your special little world and experienced other cultures?

LOL Lived in the UK for a summer, traveled to France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Mexico.  My other half and I enjoy Globe Trotter, and other shows to better understand different cultures.  I live between So. Cal., and Nevada, and am surrounded by a very diverse cultures and languages.  Last quarter I had a Japanese, Farsi, Spanish speaking students. 
LOL
 
So Bin Laden just declared war as if it were part of some script written by some cocaine junkie?
And, it had nada to do with the American occupation of Muslim lands?
And, he had a following only because people didn't like the American faces?
Just like that!
No causes, just the effect. Love your poetry.


bin Laden is worried about Western contamination of Islamic culture.   We helped him oust the Soviets, and then he and the Taliban created one of the most totalitarian, theocratic regimes in the Middle-East. 

Occupation?  Iraq had free elections, and has Sharia Law.  This irks many citizens, but this is Iraq, and the people must make their own laws.

Al Quaida is on the run with its tail tucked between its tails.   That is, we are winning. 

BTW, prose, not poetry is more my game.LOL
 
 
And tell me most educated one, if Al Queda is running why hasn't the "most elite" army in the world caught the cave dweller known as Bin Laden?


Because Bush is/was Cheney and Rummys puppet.  He did not listen to Powell.  Bush took his eye off the ball seeking revenge against the butcher, and justified it by claiming that Hussain was not abiding by the sanctions and WMD.  BTW, several tons of yellowcake was recently shipped from Iraq to Canada.

Guess it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt! We all have our bad days..
fools paradise!


An you have not provided one valid refute to any of my claims; just person attacks.

Also, isn't it a sin to call a person a fool in Islam?  I sure is in Christianity.  Read Jesus' words in Matthew.

Clap

Please lose the overemotional childish responses, and does not enlighten, and simply makes you look silly.



Clap




-------------
Curious


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 21 July 2008 at 1:43pm
Originally posted by aspacia

Because Bush is/was Cheney and Rummys puppet.  He did not listen to Powell.  Bush took his eye off the ball seeking revenge against the butcher, and justified it by claiming that Hussain was not abiding by the sanctions and WMD.  BTW, several tons of yellowcake was recently shipped from Iraq to Canada.

This yellowcake thing should have been a  full page head line news! This would have absolved Bush and saved his legacy  in a sec reversing his dissapproval !
 How did I miss it! Where is it?
Yellow cake without finding the elaborate enrichment facility in over five years of occupation is like police planting the evidence you acting an unwitting accomplice!

I don't think it will ever garner support and respect for your arguments in the future if you believe in such hogwash!

This begs the next question;do you have any foggiest idea and have an education to fathom how the uranium enrichment facility looks like for real?
 


-------------
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 21 July 2008 at 2:02pm
Originally posted by aspacia

Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt

Actually far from tucking tail and running the Taliban have had a resurgence in Afghanistan and last month more U.S. soldiers died in Afghanistan than in Iraq. Not to mention all of the civilians killed in U.S. bombings.

Specifically, nine were killed by the Taliban.  It was an outpost of 75 troops, and the Taliban had 200.  The payback, similar to Falluja, will not be pleasant for the Taliban.  Remember, we have drones entering Pakistan and nailing the bad guys.  Or, do you support the Taliban, and how they ruled when in power?
 
Al Qaeda was not in Iraq until we let them in, if they are indeed there.


They did have a few training camps, and Saddam was giving a chunk of change to suicide bombers' families.

How will we ever know between the invading troops, the militias, the death squads and all of the other factions our government unleashed in it's quest for oil and domination in the Middle East.

Again with the oil card!  I hope that the Iraqis will benefit from the oil contracts recently initiated by other countries, not only the U.S.  I hope this allows gainful employment for the Iraqis. They benefit, and so do we.
 
Occupation?  Iraq had free elections, and has Sharia Law.  This irks many citizens, but this is Iraq, and the people must make their own laws.
 
Well, if you call elections under a military occupation by a country that handpicked the leaders free elections then you are right. Iraq is far from under Shariah law. As long as the U.S. military is the true governing authority in Iraq then they are under martial law. And once the military pulls out, although our military never completely pulls out of a country once we have gone in, then there will be genocide.


We are staying to prevent a genocide and to protect our interests, and this is a Middle-Eastern ally on Syria and Iran's doorstep.  Be happy the Surge is working.
 
So yeah, I would say that we are winning...  Let's get ready to goose step into Iran.


The goose step is an Arab trait.  Mein Kampf and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion are best sellers in the Middle-East.

Does the U.S. implement numerous covert and overt violent actions.  Yes, but so do many other countries.  Remember Black Hawk Down?  We were sending food to the starving Somalia, and 18 of our troops were massacred.  We also send supplies to Burma, now Myamar.
 
Wow! Is this Donald Rumsfeld? Maybe Dick Cheney?  I would accuse you of being G.W. but I doubt he could spell Burma, however I notice you misspelled Myanmar so it might be G.W. after all...
 
You are so busy spouting right-wing propoganda you fail to realize that much of what you say has already been proven as falsehoods created by "your" administration to justify going to war against a sovereign nation that had no ties to 9-11, the original justification. Or have there been too many spins to remember the original justification?
 
Yes, we went in to spread democracy and save the Iraqis from the evil Saddam, the same evil Saddam we put in power and funded. Why weren't we concerned with saving the Iraqis from the evil Saddam for the 20 years we helped keep him in power? Giving him money, weapons, and carte blanche while he tortured, murdered and used our chemical weapons on his own people. Even condemning Israel when it bombed the nuclear reactor at Osirak. WOW! That's something we don't see everyday!
Condemning Israel in favor of Saddam. Strange how he went from being our BFF to being the devil incarnate.  Sad how so many deluded Americans believed it.
 
How could you possibly know what books are best sellers in the Middle East? I doubt even the totalitarian American controled puppet regimes have that information. From what info I could find Palestinians bought some copies of Mein Kampf in 1999, but they have no country thanks to the Israelis, and it was a good seller in Turkey, which is actually a part of the EU.  But it is also sold quite openly and freely in the United States where white supremacists and neo-nazis abound. They even hold open public events where they "goose step" through our major cities and have ex-nazis give speeches.
 
As for The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, that has been embraced quite warmly by many groups in the U.S. including lots of Christians. Over a millions copies purchased in the U.S. alone. 
 
But I can see your point, as a country we are equal opportunity haters. We can hate anyone and everyone as long as they are a little different or the government and media tell us to. In the Middle East they seem to focus more on those who have actually caused trouble and hardship, the Israelis and the U.S. government. 
 
I know, to most Americans giving away a whole country or covertly/overtly destroying people's lives for over 50 years isn't a big deal. But to the country-less and those whose lives we have been messing around with it appears to be. I suppose if you mess around with people long enough you shouldn't be surprised if they mess back.
 


-------------
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: Salams_wife
Date Posted: 21 July 2008 at 2:03pm
"Occupation?  Iraq had free elections, and has Sharia Law.  This irks many citizens, but this is Iraq, and the people must make their own laws."
 
I can't in all honesty agree with you there.  Many tried to vote in those elections and were forced to leave before casting their vote because it went against what the local militia wanted.  US troops were not stationed at all the poling stations and certainly not inside.  You can't know what was going on for that election.


Posted By: aspacia
Date Posted: 21 July 2008 at 4:53pm
Originally posted by Sign*Reader

Originally posted by aspacia

Because Bush is/was Cheney and Rummys puppet.  He did not listen to Powell.  Bush took his eye off the ball seeking revenge against the butcher, and justified it by claiming that Hussain was not abiding by the sanctions and WMD.  BTW, several tons of yellowcake was recently shipped from Iraq to Canada.

This yellowcake thing should have been a  full page head line news! This would have absolved Bush and saved his legacy  in a sec reversing his dissapproval !
 How did I miss it! Where is it?


You missed it because most media sources are biased, and dropped it like a hot potato:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=ACADEMIC+ARTICLES+ON+THE+PARANORMAL&hl=en&rlz=1B2GGFB_enUS209US209&um=1&ie=UTF-8&oi=scholart

CNN mentioned it once, ditto ABC,  I did not see it in NBC.  Basically, Reuters broke the story.

Many sides argue that we all knew it was there, and not a significatnt threat.  Why then didn't Hussein show it to IAEC?:
http://www.nysun.com/editorials/iraqs-yellowcake/81328/
Yellow cake without finding the elaborate enrichment facility in over five years of occupation is like police planting the evidence you acting an unwitting accomplice!


That crossed my mind as well  I will have to research this possibility.  Generally, a few hundred pounds I would think a plant, but 500+ tons causes me to pause.

I don't think it will ever garner support and respect for your arguments in the future if you believe in such hogwash!


This is from AP sources. 

This begs the next question;do you have any foggiest idea and have an education to fathom how the uranium enrichment facility looks like for real?

 


Somewhat, as these facilities take on various forms, and my areas are English, history, poly sci and phlosophy; I am not expert in science, do you claim to be?Sleepy

Why are you so angry??  You only make yourself look sillyLOL




-------------
Curious


Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 21 July 2008 at 5:18pm
Yellowcake in Canada, guess we'll have to attack them next.

If Saddam Hussein had the ability to produce weapons of mass destruction of any type he would have used them against the invading Americans.

And you'd think with all those Al Qaeda you were talking about running loose in Iraq someone would have been able to get their hands on some and do some damage with it.  Shoot, they've been able to get American guns and munitions right under the nose of the military, but not one little bit of hundreds of tons of yellowcake that was for all intents and purposes lying around unguarded and unaccounted for for months. 
 
But you are correct in that the media is biased. Not one media outlet in this country questioned anything that Bush and his regime of merry men told them as a prelude to war. They all jumped on the bandwagon like a bunch of trained puppies.
 
Overseas was a different story. Too bad most Americans don't speak overseas....


-------------
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: aspacia
Date Posted: 21 July 2008 at 7:06pm
Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt

Originally posted by aspacia

Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt

Actually far from tucking tail and running the Taliban have had a resurgence in Afghanistan and last month more U.S. soldiers died in Afghanistan than in Iraq. Not to mention all of the civilians killed in U.S. bombings.


Specifically, nine were killed by the Taliban.  It was an outpost of 75 troops, and the Taliban had 200.  The payback, similar to Falluja, will not be pleasant for the Taliban.  Remember, we have drones entering Pakistan and nailing the bad guys.  Or, do you support the Taliban, and how they ruled when in power?

Also, it is
to offset a comment by another, and to end the comment.
 
Al Qaeda was not in Iraq until we let them in, if they are indeed there.


They did have a few training camps, and Saddam was giving a chunk of change to suicide bombers' families.

How will we ever know between the invading troops, the militias, the death squads and all of the other factions our government unleashed in it's quest for oil and domination in the Middle East.

Again with the oil card!  I hope that the Iraqis will benefit from the oil contracts recently initiated by other countries, not only the U.S.  I hope this allows gainful employment for the Iraqis. They benefit, and so do we.
 
Occupation?  Iraq had free elections, and has Sharia Law.  This irks many citizens, but this is Iraq, and the people must make their own laws.
 
Well, if you call elections under a military occupation by a country that handpicked the leaders free elections then you are right. Iraq is far from under Shariah law. As long as the U.S. military is the true governing authority in Iraq then they are under martial law. And once the military pulls out, although our military never completely pulls out of a country once we have gone in, then there will be genocide.


We are staying to prevent a genocide and to protect our interests, and this is a Middle-Eastern ally on Syria and Iran's doorstep.  Be happy the Surge is working.
 
So yeah, I would say that we are winning...  Let's get ready to goose step into Iran.


The goose step is an Arab trait.  Mein Kampf and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion are best sellers in the Middle-East.

Does the U.S. implement numerous covert and overt violent actions.  Yes, but so do many other countries.  Remember Black Hawk Down?  We were sending food to the starving Somalia, and 18 of our troops were massacred.  We also send supplies to Burma, now Myamar.
 
Wow! Is this Donald Rumsfeld? Maybe Dick Cheney?  I would accuse you of being G.W. but I doubt he could spell Burma, however I notice you misspelled Myanmar so it might be G.W. after all...


Oops, a typo, I forgot the n.  You are too funny, and know good and well, I am none of the above.
 
You are so busy spouting right-wing propoganda


Are facts "propaganda?"  Try not to point out others typos, and not expect a response.  Also, I am not considered right-wing, nor conservative, just a Jeffersonian Democrat.  That is,  pro-choice and a gay rights advocate.  Try to remember you are dealing with a So. Cal. 50+ year Democrat, that is until the last 3 or 4 years.

you fail to realize that much of what you say has already been proven as falsehoods created by "your" administration to justify going to war against a sovereign nation that had no ties to 9-11, the original justification. Or have there been too many spins to remember the original justification?

They found 400+ tons of yellowcake, and Hussein was not complying with the UN resolutions.  Also, many sites have posted Iraqi claims that the WMD's are in Syria.  I know contractors and instructors who have been in Saudi Arabia, and the Saudis claim that those WMD's are probably in Syria.  Sooner or later, we will find the facts.
 
Yes, we went in to spread democracy and save the Iraqis from the evil Saddam, the same evil Saddam we put in power and funded.


Sure did, against our old adversary Iran.  Remember the hostage crisis, and the inept Carter?

Why weren't we concerned with saving the Iraqis from the evil Saddam for the 20 years we helped keep him in power? Giving him money, weapons, and carte blanche while he tortured, murdered and used our chemical weapons on his own people.

Sure enough, and it was because he was attacking Iran.    Similarly, we help bin Laden and his fight against the Soviets.  Shifting alliances.

Even condemning Israel when it bombed the nuclear reactor at Osirak. WOW! That's something we don't see everyday!
Condemning Israel in favor of Saddam. Strange how he went from being our BFF to being the devil incarnate.  Sad how so many deluded Americans believed it.


He attempted to assassinate Bush Senior.  Is the light coming on?  We have imprisoned and executed Jews and Israelis for spying: Rosenbergs, Pollack, and others.
 
How could you possibly know what books are best sellers in the Middle East?


I read a huge amount of Arab media, especially while on vacation  Our web sites are not blocked as most Middle-Eastern media sites are.

I doubt even the totalitarian American controled puppet regimes have that information.


Actually, they perpetuate the myths to divert attention from their failings.

From what info I could find Palestinians bought some copies of Mein Kampf in 1999, but they have no country thanks to the Israelis, and it was a good seller in Turkey, which is actually a part of the EU.

When the Arabs quit demanding "the right of return," a settlement will probably be reached.  And please, do not give me a bunch of s#$% regarding their rights.  What about the 650,000 Jews expelled from Arab lands, and absorbed by Israel.

Turkey is not part of the EU .

For some insight:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4701162.stm

This is only one site, but there are many.  Try a Google search, and if you have access to an academic site, this will help.

  But it is also sold quite openly and freely in the United States where white supremacists and neo-nazis abound. They even hold open public events where they "goose step" through our major cities and have ex-nazis give speeches.

Yes.  I have read both in academic classrooms.  Both were ripped apart.  We have strong First Amendment rights, whereas, most of Europe, Middle-East, Africa, South America, Central  America etc., do not.  Very few
U.S. citizen believe this garbage.  We are educated against fascism and totalitarianism. 


As for The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, that has been embraced quite warmly by many groups in the U.S. including lots of Christians. Over a millions copies purchased in the U.S. alone.


Sure enough, I purchased a copy for class.  This was for awareness, not indoctrination purposes.
 
[quote]But I can see your point, as a country we are equal opportunity haters. We can hate anyone and everyone as long as they are a little different or the government and media tell us to. In the Middle East they seem to focus more on those who have actually caused trouble and hardship, the Israelis and the U.S. government.


Hum, can a Buddhist worship is much of the Middle-East.  Are Copts dhiminis?  How about women's rights?  Can I drive in Saudi Arabia?  I am one of the kaffir or infidels or dhiminis in the Middle-East, are you in the U.S.  Nope, you are equally protected, not the same can be said of other minorities in the Middle East.  You may be poorer than others, well guess what, so am I.
 
[quote]I know, to most Americans giving away a whole country or covertly/overtly destroying people's lives for over 50 years isn't a big deal. But to the country-less and those whose lives we have been messing around with it appears to[quote] be. I suppose if you mess around with people long enough you shouldn't be surprised if they mess back.


Jordan is and was designated Arab by the UK; whereas previously it was to be Israeli.  This land mass is far larger than Israel.  Also, we send quite a bit of money to Arabs, albeit they use it to kill their rivals.  The Arabs chose to invade, and quite simply lost.

How about the fact that no Jews were allowed into Jerusalem until they took it in 1967. 

Now, who is more xenophobic?

LOL


-------------
Curious


Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 21 July 2008 at 7:39pm
The region was already destabilized and very violent.  That is, lawless. 
 
Now, let me ask you this, do tell were you ever in Afghanistan? Before the war and everything? Just curious..
 
Because you are wrong. They had laws. .and a sytem of governance, etc. Now you may not have liked it but they had some. And we never did go in there to help the Afghanis.. if so we would have done what Greg Mortenson has done and build schools, in stead of bombing it back further than the stone age (after the Russians).  It was and is a tribal culture. And they have rules.. you may not know them but they do.  Having been in northern Pakistan, people have rules, they are quite capable of running themselves, have done so for thousands of years. And no, they don't really need your help. Though they'd like us to stop killing people.
 
And we did not go into Iraq and make it all seem fine.. but you watch and see who ultimately gets control of those oil fields.. where that revenues goes. We did not like it when those countries nationalized the oil and we won't let them do it now.
 
It  is interesting that for alot of people in other areas, I've ben to PAkistan they want to know who is this "Al Queda." They think it is all in America's own head..a boogie man enemy to justify its tactics.
 
And its weird you think that they are "on the run" as if it okay to attack a country that did not invade or attack you.. How is this different than colonization?
 
And have you lived in a wat zone? Do you think that it is easier to live in chaos? And originally when the Kurds rose up in the 90s after the Guld war we did not back them. We jusy invaded later at our own whim.. would we like it if China did that to us???
 
Have you ever been to these regions.. just curious
 
 
 
Ugle American.. yes there was a certain view by Europeans. But the IDEAL of America was very prominant with people. It STOOD for something in the eyes of the average person around the world.  It was a sign of hope and betterment.


-------------
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi


Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 21 July 2008 at 11:25pm
Aspacia:
 
"How about the fact that no Jews were allowed into Jerusalem until they took it in 1967." 
Actually there have been Jews living in Jerusalem for centuries, quite peacefully on the whole until the U.N., the British, and the Zionist decided to take all of the land and expel the Palestinians.
 
In 1947 Jordan invaded and and occupied East Jerusalem, but even then Jews only fled the part that was occupied. From 1948 until 1967 Jerusalem was divided between Israel and Jordan. So your claims that Jews were forbidden in Jerusalem are historically incorrect. The Jews never really left Jerusalem, they just relocated to the unoccupied Israeli side.
 
"Sure did, against our old adversary Iran.  Remember the hostage crisis, and the inept Carter?"
 
Sure I remember the hostage crises. Remember Operation Ajax in which the CIA and SIS deposed the democratically elected Prime Minister Mosaddegh because he wanted to nationalise the oil fields and actually keep the oil money in Iran, and set up the Shah as a puppet ruler? A brutal dictatorship in which thousands of Iranians opposed to the Shah were murdered or disappeared, all with monetary aid and arms from the U.S.
 
Then we are shocked and surprised when the Iranians dare to take Americans hostage and overthrow the leader we forced upon them.
 
Sorry, Turkey is a member of the EC and has full candidate status to the EU.
 
"They did have a few training camps, and Saddam was giving a chunk of change to suicide bombers' families."
 
If there were any truth in this or verifiable proof it would have been trotted out when Bush was doing his big war dog and pony show. This is just another lie.
 
"I read a huge amount of Arab media, especially while on vacation"
 
Hal tal takallum Arabi? Keef haalik? Kulshi Bekhir?
 
Fin katskun? Shehal mad wenta hna? Ash kat'amli? Wash fhemti?
 
"Hum, can a Buddhist worship is much of the Middle-East.  Are Copts dhiminis?  How about women's rights?  Can I drive in Saudi Arabia?  I am one of the kaffir or infidels or dhiminis in the Middle-East, are you in the U.S.  Nope, you are equally protected, not the same can be said of other minorities in the Middle East.  You may be poorer than others, well guess what, so am I."
In Islam anyone can worship however they choose and women have greater rights than those established in most western cultures. What the governments in the Middle East, most of whom are kept in power in part or whole by our democracy speading, tyrant hating government, do has nothing to do with my religion.
 
Actually, as a Muslim in the U.S. I am a target of profiling, secret arrests, extraordinary rendition, detention without the right of habeus corpus or due process, and subject to torture. This is hardly equal protection under the law.
 
I am not a minority. I am a Euro-caucasian with a Native American, (a TRUE American) grandfather. My father, uncles, and brother all served in the Army. My father for 35 years. I grew up on army bases all over the world and studied at some of the finest military schools. The only thing that makes me a minority in this country is the hatred of Americans for my self-chosen religion. A hatred fueled by ignorance and misinformation. Much like that which you have been posting.


 
 
 


-------------
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 21 July 2008 at 11:47pm
Extremely Educated!
As educated as all the rest of Neo-con war criminals? The all hold doctorates, somehow.
 
How difficult is it to get QUALIFICATIONS in the US:
* Received it jsut this morning along with all the other Great News about increasing all types of sizes, which seems to be the premier preoccupation of the Amreekan mind. Size specially of Fire Power!
 
Bachellor, MassterMBA, and Doctoorate certification available in YOUR field of choice.

Yes, you can become a Doc and get all the benefits alongside it!
 
Our Diiploma/Certiificates are recognised worldwide.
 
No need for exams, or testing, classrooms, tests, even interviewing.
 
We turn no one down
We guarantee confidentiality.
 
CALL US 24 HOURS A DAY, 7 DAYS A WEEK
 
For US: 1-781-634-7970
Outside US: +1-781-634-7970
 
"Just leave your NAME & PHONE NO. (with CountryCode)" in the voicemail
 
our staff will get back to you in next few days


-------------
Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 22 July 2008 at 12:39am
I can't in all honesty agree with you there.  Many tried to vote in those elections and were forced to leave before casting their vote because it went against what the local militia wanted.  US troops were not stationed at all the poling stations and certainly not inside.  You can't know what was going on for that election.
 
Please, for heaven's sake, give this poor thing no more of your noble breath.
 
I have been watching for 6 years, we get one of these, regularly, every eight months or so, parroting those ultra right wing lines that we have heard a hundred or so times before.
 
This variety always appears wrapped up in American Mythology - of the kind that it was the U S that saved Europe from Hitler. YES, they did but just in the Hollywood scripts.
 
The sheer hard historical fact is the Soviet troops had taken Berlin and liberated all the other areas. Plus, Britain's role is completely ignored to paint over the impotence and sublime incompetence of American forces.
 
Please save your breath. It's so simple. He who knows (it all) knows not, shun him. I believe in this case; shun her!


-------------
Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 22 July 2008 at 12:48am
Also, isn't it a sin to call a person a fool in Islam? 
Is it a sin any religion to call a spade a spade - to tell the truth?

-------------
Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 22 July 2008 at 12:53am
Hayfa
Your 14 lines just leave me speechless as usual. What shall I or can I say?


-------------
Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 22 July 2008 at 1:02am
http://www.islamicity.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=52384&FID=41 - aspacia
Groupie
 
Just a simple word of advice. You seem to dwell in and toy with just the "debate". You seem to take it as if Life is confined to just one dimension - scores / points.
 
Life has a million dimension at the least. The day you begin to feel Life, my friend, you will begin to feel almost human. 


-------------
Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: aspacia
Date Posted: 22 July 2008 at 7:39am
Originally posted by Salams_wife

"Occupation?  Iraq had free elections, and has Sharia Law.  This irks many citizens, but this is Iraq, and the people must make their own laws."
 
I can't in all honesty agree with you there.  Many tried to vote in those elections and were forced to leave before casting their vote because it went against what the local militia wanted.  US troops were not stationed at all the poling stations and certainly not inside.  You can't know what was going on for that election.


Okay, now do you have valid support for this claim?  I did not come across this information.

Wink


-------------
Curious


Posted By: aspacia
Date Posted: 22 July 2008 at 7:53am
Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt

Yellowcake in Canada, guess we'll have to attack them next.


LMFAO, sarcasm is unbecoming shasta.  Canada is part of the non-proliferation treaty and abide by it.  The point is that Saddam did have yellowcake, and would not relinquish is according to UN sanctions. 

If Saddam Hussein had the ability to produce weapons of mass destruction of any type he would have used them against the invading Americans.

Sure enough, and we were worried regarding this.  The troops went there with tons of protection against chemical attack. 


And you'd think with all those Al Qaeda you were talking about running loose in Iraq someone would have been able to get their hands on some and do some damage with it.  Shoot, they've been able to get American guns and munitions right under the nose of the military, but not one little bit of hundreds of tons of yellowcake that was for all intents and purposes lying around unguarded and unaccounted for for months. 


Shasta, I never made this claim.  They did have a few training camps, but were not all over Iraq.  Please do not distort my words.  I am still unsure regarding the yellowcake.  UN 1991 documentation claim he had it. 

BTW: it took us a very long time locating Hussein, as he had support.

But you are correct in that the media is biased. Not one media outlet in this country questioned anything that Bush and his regime of merry men told them as a prelude to war. They all jumped on the bandwagon like a bunch of trained puppies.


I have yet to locate one unbiased media source.  Al-Ahram is as notoriously biased, as Fox is.
 
Overseas was a different story. Too bad most Americans don't speak overseas....
[/QUOTE]

Many U.S. citizens speak overseas, albeit they often do not know the language.


-------------
Curious


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 22 July 2008 at 2:05pm
Okay, now do you have valid support for this claim?
What the . . . . I am seriously tempted to use a word I never use. I will give you a valid support for the sheer fact THAT ANY ELECTIONS UNDER ARMY OCCUPATION are not elections.
 
Just see how Anne Patterson (your Ambassador in Pakistan) is screwing up Democracy in Pakistan right at this very moment.
 
Great (I wont use the most appropriate word here) Amreekans saving and caring for the world!!! Idiotic boring cultureless, power maniac control freaks produced by an even more boring square grid street system.
 
Get down from your ultra right wing horse and get straight with us. We know all these "provide me proof of this n deata for that" tricks of your DEBATE trade. The old Afghan is back after having total kidney failure and a mega Cardiac Arrest. And, in this very condition he will fry you.


-------------
Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 22 July 2008 at 2:06pm
BTW: it took us a very long time locating Hussein, as he had support.
As if you were there on the spot!

-------------
Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 22 July 2008 at 4:27pm
Originally posted by aspacia

Originally posted by Salams_wife

"Occupation?  Iraq had free elections, and has Sharia Law.  This irks many citizens, but this is Iraq, and the people must make their own laws."
 
I can't in all honesty agree with you there.  Many tried to vote in those elections and were forced to leave before casting their vote because it went against what the local militia wanted.  US troops were not stationed at all the poling stations and certainly not inside.  You can't know what was going on for that election.


Okay, now do you have valid support for this claim?  I did not come across this information.

Wink
 
  • 19 Jan 05: http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200501/s1284857.htm - "US keeps locations of Iraqi voting booths secret," AEDT.
"US authorities say Iraqis will vote in the insurgent centres of Fallujah and Ramadi but officials will keep the number and location of polling stations secret until the last minute to prevent attacks."
  • 20 Jan 05: Political Animal Kevin Drum at the Washington Monthly http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_01/005493.php - reports :
"On ABC News tonight they had a report about preparations for voting in the city of Mosul. The original plan was to have 100 polling places, but because of the violence there that's been cut down to 40.
"The population of Mosul is 2 million, and you can probably figure that about two-thirds of that number are eligible to vote. That means each polling place will have to handle 33,000 voters. Even if turnout is only 50%, that's still about 16,000 people per polling station.
"Even 100 polling stations sounds like far, far too few. But 40?"
Karl Vick and Robin Wright, " http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36582-2005Jan25.html - Coaching Iraq's New Candidates, Discreetly: U.S.-Funded Programs Nurture Voting Process ", Washington Post, January 26, 2005.
  • Robert Fisk, CounterPunch Election series
    • http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk01122005.html - "Fear Stalks Baghdad: The City Where Even Police Hide Behind Masks," The Independent (UK) via CounterPunch, January 12, 2005.
    • http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk01142005.html - "The Tent of Occupation: Fallujah's Refugees Won't Return Home, Won't Vote," The Independent (UK) via CounterPunch, January 14, 2005.
    • http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk01152005.html - "Flying Carpet Airlines: My Return to Baghdad," The Independent (UK) via CounterPunch, January 15/16, 2005.
    • http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk01172005.html - "Hotel Room Journalism: The US Press in Iraq," The Independent (UK) via CounterPunch, January 17, 2005.
    • http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk01292005.html - "The Shia Will Inherit Iraq: This Election Will Change the World, But Not in the Way the US Wanted," The Independent (UK) via CounterPunch, January 29/30, 2005.
    • http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk01312005.html - "No One Believes the Insurgency Will End: Amid Tragedy, Defiance," The Independent (UK) via CounterPunch, January 31, 2005.
  • Dahr Jamail, " http://ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=27256 - Some Just Voted for Food ", Inter Press Service, January 31, 2005. "Voting in Baghdad was linked with receipt of food rations, several voters said after the Sunday poll."
  • http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Robert_Parry - Robert Parry , " http://www.consortiumnews.com/Print/2005/020305.html - Sinking in Deeper ", ConsortiumNews, February 3, 2005.
  • Edward Herman, http://www.zmag.org/content/print_article.cfm?itemID=7240&sectionID=15 - "The Election In Iraq : The U.S. Propaganda System Is Still Working In High Gear,"] ZNet, February 13, 2005.
  • Douglas Jehl and David E. Sanger, " http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/17/politics/17elect.html?ei=5070&en=eee1eded45ea8068&ex=1122264000&emc=eta1&pagewanted=print - Plan Called for Covert Aid in Iraq Vote ", New York Times, July 17, 2005.
  • http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Seymour_M._Hersh - Seymour M. Hersh , http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/050725fa_fact - "Get Out the Vote. Did Washington try to manipulate Iraq’s election?" The New Yorker, posted online July 18, 2005; July 25, 2005 (issue).


  • -------------
    “No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    Posted By: aspacia
    Date Posted: 22 July 2008 at 4:39pm
    Originally posted by Hayfa

    The region was already destabilized and very violent.  That is, lawless.
     
    Now, let me ask you this, do tell were you ever in Afghanistan? Before the war and everything? Just curious..[/quote]

    Nope.  However, I have had students who were refugees from this area, and read numerous accounts regarding the totalitarian rule. 
     
    Because you are wrong. They had laws. .and a sytem of governance, etc. Now you may not have liked it but they had some.


    Oh, another Taliban apologist.  You condone how they behave, and follow their "laws." but we should change our laws to accommodate immigrants.

    To this Western mind, yes they did have laws, but were lawless and violent in many regards.  Rape, honor murder, maimings, executions without trial or representation.  There is a huge amount of documentation, and the following is a small portion:
    http://www.rawa.org/h-kill.htm
    http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/11/22/ret.wh.taliban.attrocities/index.html

    And we never did go in there to help the Afghanis.. if so we would have done what Greg Mortenson has done and build schools, in stead of bombing it back further than the stone age (after the Russians).


    We sure did not.  However, there was a huge outcry regarding the Taliban which many reporters covered.  Too bad the women still do not have a fair shake.

    It was and is a tribal culture. And they have rules.. you may not know them but they do.  Having been in northern Pakistan, people have rules, they are quite capable of running themselves, have done so for thousands of years. And no, they don't really need your help. Though they'd like us to stop killing people.


    Sure, like aiding and abetting those who murder civilians, and this includes Muslims.  Look at the massacres in Pakistan by these tribes.  How about Bhutto?
     
    And we did not go into Iraq and make it all seem fine.. but you watch and see who ultimately gets control of those oil fields.. where that revenues goes. We did not like it when those countries nationalized the oil and we won't let them do it now.


    We generally do not approved of any nationalization, although many on this site believe that we do.  I hope the Iraqis benefit from the oil production, and that we will geopolitically benefit as well.
     
    It  is interesting that for alot of people in other areas, I've ben to PAkistan they want to know who is this "Al Queda." They think it is all in America's own head..a boogie man enemy to justify its tactics.


    Are these people literate.  Can they freely associate and view various web sites.  Pakistan is under Musharrif, and is basically under marshal law.  He jailed the secular lawyers and civil servants.
     
    And its weird you think that they are "on the run" as if it okay to attack a country that did not invade or attack you.. How is this different than colonization?


    Again, they were aided and abetted by the Taliban.  We had every right to attack Afghanistan after Al Quaeda targeted and murdered nearly 3,000 civilians.
     
    And have you lived in a wat zone?


    No, but my mother grew up during the WWII bombing of Plymouth.  Many friends and family were blown to bits.

    Do you think that it is easier to live in chaos? And originally when the Kurds rose up in the 90s after the Guld war we did not back them. We jusy invaded later at our own whim..


    No, we did not back the Kurds. and it was not just a whim.  Bush went to the UN, and to Congress.  We had/have other partners in this Iraqi endeavor.  Hussein was a bad guy, but now is gone.

    would we like it if China did that to us???


    China probably does plan to do this to us, except, they will probably go for total, unrestrained warfare, and poison, as well as bomb us.
     
    Have you ever been to these regions.. just curious


    No, just read and watched Globe Trotter regarding various Middle-Eastern lands.   Have known several people who worked their as contractors, instructors, and simply refugees.
       
    Ugle American.. yes there was a certain view by Europeans. But the IDEAL of America was very prominant with people. It STOOD for something in the eyes of the average person around the world.  It was a sign of hope and betterment.


    We do hope for freedom and democracy for those living under totalitarian rule, especially when the rulers threaten us, as Iran has rhetorically done on numerous occasions.
    Not really.  I encountered much of this "Ugly American" b.s. when traveling to France during the 60's.  Yuk!  Parisians can be very arrogant and nasty.


    -------------
    Curious


    Posted By: aspacia
    Date Posted: 22 July 2008 at 4:41pm
    Originally posted by Whisper

    Extremely Educated!
    As educated as all the rest of Neo-con war criminals? The all hold doctorates, somehow.
     
    How difficult is it to get QUALIFICATIONS in the US:
    * Received it jsut this morning along with all the other Great News about increasing all types of sizes, which seems to be the premier preoccupation of the Amreekan mind. Size specially of Fire Power!
     
    Bachellor, MassterMBA, and Doctoorate certification available in YOUR field of choice.

    Yes, you can become a Doc and get all the benefits alongside it!
     
    Our Diiploma/Certiificates are recognised worldwide.
     
    No need for exams, or testing, classrooms, tests, even interviewing.
     
    We turn no one down
    We guarantee confidentiality.
     
    CALL US 24 HOURS A DAY, 7 DAYS A WEEK
     
    For US: 1-781-634-7970
    Outside US: +1-781-634-7970
     
    "Just leave your NAME & PHONE NO. (with CountryCode)" in the voicemail
     
    our staff will get back to you in next few days


    Whisper, I attended two expensive universities on scholarships.  I currently have a $20,000+ postgraduate bill.


    -------------
    Curious


    Posted By: aspacia
    Date Posted: 22 July 2008 at 5:21pm
    Originally posted by Whisper

    Okay, now do you have valid support for this claim?
    What the . . . . I am seriously tempted to use a word I never use. I will give you a valid support for the sheer fact THAT ANY ELECTIONS UNDER ARMY OCCUPATION are not elections.
     
    Just see how Anne Patterson (your Ambassador in Pakistan) is screwing up Democracy in Pakistan right at this very moment.
     
    Great (I wont use the most appropriate word here) Amreekans saving and caring for the world!!! Idiotic boring cultureless, power maniac control freaks produced by an even more boring square grid street system.
     
    Get down from your ultra right wing horse and get straight with us. We know all these "provide me proof of this n deata for that" tricks of your DEBATE trade. The old Afghan is back after having total kidney failure and a mega Cardiac Arrest. And, in this very condition he will fry you.


    ROLF, and not a word of valid rebuttal.  Typical.


    -------------
    Curious


    Posted By: JihadX
    Date Posted: 22 July 2008 at 5:35pm
    I hate America!! I wish i could pack up and move.. i wasn't exactly invited to this country anyway

    -------------
    “The knife that slaughtered the guards at Bagram and set us free is now on its way to other places,”
    _ The Mujahid, The Eminent, Sheikh Abu Yahya Al Libi


    Posted By: aspacia
    Date Posted: 22 July 2008 at 5:59pm
    Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt

    Aspacia:
     
    "How about the fact that no Jews were allowed into Jerusalem until they took it in 1967." 
    Actually there have been Jews living in Jerusalem for centuries, quite peacefully on the whole until the U.N., the British, and the Zionist decided to take all of the land and expel the Palestinians.


    Peacefully, Arabs Jews had been under attack by their neighbors.  Come on.  Jews left in fear, not under Israeli edicts; Arabs fled under edicts and in fear.
     
    In 1947 Jordan invaded and and occupied East Jerusalem, but even then Jews only fled the part that was occupied. From 1948 until 1967 Jerusalem was divided between Israel and Jordan. So your claims that Jews were forbidden in Jerusalem are historically incorrect. The Jews never really left Jerusalem, they just relocated to the unoccupied Israeli side.


    Hence, Arabs relocated to Arab lands.
     
    "Sure did, against our old adversary Iran.  Remember the hostage crisis, and the inept Carter?"
     
    Sure I remember the hostage crises. Remember Operation Ajax in which the CIA and SIS deposed the democratically elected Prime Minister Mosaddegh because he wanted to nationalise the oil fields and actually keep the oil money in Iran, and set up the Shah as a puppet ruler? A brutal dictatorship in which thousands of Iranians opposed to the Shah were murdered or disappeared, all with monetary aid and arms from the U.S.


    Yes!  We did this, but should business interests have their investments confiscated without compensation?  Yes, the Shah did this, but so have numerous other Arab dictators.
     
    Then we are shocked and surprised when the Iranians dare to take Americans hostage and overthrow the leader we forced upon them.


    We were, Carter allowed this.  Who is more brutal; the Shah or the Ayatollahs?
     
    Sorry, Turkey is a member of the EC and has full candidate status to the EU.


    They key word is "candidate."
     
    "They did have a few training camps, and Saddam was giving a chunk of change to suicide bombers' families."
     
    If there were any truth in this or verifiable proof it would have been trotted out when Bush was doing his big war dog and pony show. This is just another lie.


    http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/006/550kmbzd.asp
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/interviews/khodada.html
    http://www.nationalreview.com/mccarthy/mccarthy200406170840.asp

    There is much more.  It was trotted out, but as usual, our alphabet media ignored much of this or just mentioned it once or twice, similar to the recent yellowcake removal
     
    "I read a huge amount of Arab media, especially while on vacation"
     
    Hal tal takallum Arabi? Keef haalik? Kulshi Bekhir?


    This does not translate.  I went to three translation sites.  What give.  Also, I am monolingual, as are most Muslims who cannot read Arabic.
     
    Fin katskun? Shehal mad wenta hna? Ash kat'amli? Wash fhemti?
     
    "Hum, can a Buddhist worship is much of the Middle-East.  Are Copts dhiminis?  How about women's rights?  Can I drive in Saudi Arabia?  I am one of the kaffir or infidels or dhiminis in the Middle-East, are you in the U.S.  Nope, you are equally protected, not the same can be said of other minorities in the Middle East.  You may be poorer than others, well guess what, so am I."


    In Islam anyone can worship however they choose and women have greater rights than those established in most western cultures.


    Nope, read Sharia Law for insight.  The Qu'ran helps too.  Two women = one man's testimony, etc.

    What the governments in the Middle East, most of whom are kept in power in part or whole by our democracy speading, tyrant hating government, do has nothing to do with my religion.

    Ah, but this is a political thread.  Want to discuss religion?  Do the recent Surahs supercede the previous one?  No Islamic scholar will answer this very simple question.  Yes or no will suffice.
     
    Actually, as a Muslim in the U.S. I am a target of profiling, secret arrests, extraordinary rendition, detention without the right of habeus corpus or due process, and subject to torture. This is hardly equal protection under the law.


    Profiling is conducted regarding behavior, not appearance, similar to Israeli profiling.   I do hope you have behaved in a seditious fashion.
     
    I am not a minority. I am a Euro-caucasian with a Native American, (a TRUE American) grandfather.


    Hence, you probably have nothing to worry about.  Just do not threaten, and do not fratrinize with those who threaten.  BTW: Most Native Americans immigrated from Mongolia.  ROLF, my significant other is an eighth Iroquois. 

    My father, uncles, and brother all served in the Army. My father for 35 years.


    Yes, so did my brother, uncles, mother and father.  Father was on the tin can Roan when it was sunk off the coast of Salerno. None were lifers, but served their time.

    [quote]I grew up on army bases all over the world and studied at some of the finest military schools. The only thing that makes me a minority in this country is the hatred of Americans for my self-chosen religion. A hatred fueled by ignorance and misinformation. Much like that which you have been posting.


    Okay, so prove me incorrect with valid support.Wink

    BTW:  Freedom of worship is guranteed under our Constitution.  This is not a guaranteed under Sharia Law, and generally in most of the Middle-East.  Thank your lucky stars we do not stone people for changing faiths.


     
     
     


    -------------
    Curious


    Posted By: aspacia
    Date Posted: 22 July 2008 at 6:02pm
    Originally posted by Whisper

    Also, isn't it a sin to call a person a fool in Islam? 
    Is it a sin any religion to call a spade a spade - to tell the truth?


    Yes, in Christianity.  Read Matthew.Wink


    -------------
    Curious


    Posted By: aspacia
    Date Posted: 22 July 2008 at 6:04pm
    Originally posted by JihadX

    I hate America!! I wish i could pack up and move.. i wasn't exactly invited to this country anyway


    You can pack and move.  Just save your coins and leave, as we do not want those who hate us.Dead


    -------------
    Curious


    Posted By: aspacia
    Date Posted: 22 July 2008 at 6:06pm
    Originally posted by Whisper

    I can't in all honesty agree with you there.  Many tried to vote in those elections and were forced to leave before casting their vote because it went against what the local militia wanted.  US troops were not stationed at all the poling stations and certainly not inside.  You can't know what was going on for that election.
     
    Please, for heaven's sake, give this poor thing no more of your noble breath.
     
    I have been watching for 6 years, we get one of these, regularly, every eight months or so, parroting those ultra right wing lines that we have heard a hundred or so times before.
     
    This variety always appears wrapped up in American Mythology - of the kind that it was the U S that saved Europe from Hitler. YES, they did but just in the Hollywood scripts.
     
    The sheer hard historical fact is the Soviet troops had taken Berlin and liberated all the other areas. Plus, Britain's role is completely ignored to paint over the impotence and sublime incompetence of American forces.
     
    Please save your breath. It's so simple. He who knows (it all) knows not, shun him. I believe in this case; shun her!


    Typical, as you have no solid refutes to my claims.  Enjoy the sand ostrich.LOL


    -------------
    Curious


    Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
    Date Posted: 22 July 2008 at 6:41pm
    "I am one of the kaffir or infidels or dhiminis in the Middle-East, are you in the U.S. "
    "I read a huge amount of Arab media, especially while on vacation"
     
    Hal tal takallum Arabi? Keef haalik? Kulshi Bekhir?
     
    Fin katskun? Shehal mad wenta hna? Ash kat'amli? Wash fhemti?
     
    It's transliteration and if you can speak Arabic you should be able to understand.
     
    I assumed that since you wrote this you understood, spoke, or read Arabic. If you are not living in the Middle East and do not understand the language how have you become so intimately acquainted with all things Arab and Muslim?
     
    "Yes, so did my brother, uncles, mother and father.  Father was on the tin can Roan when it was sunk off the coast of Salerno. None were lifers, but served their time."  "Also, I am monolingual"
    I don't know which army your mother and father were in, but when we were stationed overseas we HAD to learn the language of the country in which we were stationed. It was mandatory in school. I learned German from grade 1 to grade 4, I learned French from grade 4 to grade 6, and Spanish from grade 6 through high school. No choice. The Arabic I learned on my own, although now I hear it is an option for dependents.  I also know some bad words in Korean and Italian, but that's from other army brats not formal training.
     
    So if both of your parents were military how could you possibly have escaped being at least bilingual? The odds of this occuring are astronomical. I'm beginning to think you're not quite honest.
     
    Prove me wrong with some valid support.....
     
     
     
     
     
     


    -------------
    “No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    Posted By: Whisper
    Date Posted: 23 July 2008 at 12:30am
    How about Bhutto?

    Shall we have some light on this one? You have thrown it in as if you know something about the situation other than what you have been told by the media.
     
    I am an insider. Come on tell us who killed pobre Benazir Bhutto?
    Everyone, specially, my friends the real and established leaders of the Pakistan Peoples'Party know who killed Bhutto AND THAT'S THE REASON THEY HAVE ALL BEEN SIDELINED - WITH ALL THE MIGHT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMREEKA - because they can do their dirty work in that area through their NOW favourite, Asif. (A chap I have known since he was 11 - exactly like I had known his late wife)
     
    Pobre Boucher and that registered Latin killer criminal, Negroponte running to Islamabad even when somone sneezes, in absolute contravention to diplomatic norms. You will have a far bigger sore on you cow boy backside than Afghanistan, soon.
     
    Come on the Enlightened one just shine on us WHO KILLED BB?
     
     
     
     


    -------------
    Sasha Khanzadeh


    Posted By: Whisper
    Date Posted: 23 July 2008 at 12:37am
    Typical, as you have no solid refutes to my claims.  Enjoy the sand ostrich.
    Play with your emoticons, kid. I would have talked with you just if I smelt one iota of sense in even one of your lines. You are a hollow drum that is desperate to join in with the band.
     
    But, the sad fact is that it has been beaten so much by the likes of Karen Hughes and the other Neo-cons (and not to forget all those Reporters! you keep flashing at us) that it has lost its appeal.
     
    What do you expect from us? to swoon over your point by point babysteps?


    -------------
    Sasha Khanzadeh


    Posted By: Whisper
    Date Posted: 23 July 2008 at 12:42am
    as we do not want those who hate us.Dead
    Pobre you that would mean the whole world.
    On the last count that would put 93% of Spaniards and well over 86% of the French, 67% Brits, 96% Pakis and a whole range of folks across the planet called Earth who have been forced, by the Americans'criminal behaviour, to wish to see the US extinguished.
     
    And, I promise, the world does exist beyond the stars n the stripes.


    -------------
    Sasha Khanzadeh


    Posted By: Whisper
    Date Posted: 23 July 2008 at 12:49am
    Whisper, I attended two expensive universities on scholarships.  I currently have a $20,000+ postgraduate bill.
    You should sue these universities and claim compensation not just for the post graduate bills but far more for having wasted your time.
    Just imagine what they have produced!
     
    I sincerely have my sympathies with you. If they hadn't planted all these degrees on you, I bet you must have been good at something, like grooming my horses or shearing sugar cane. That would have saved you from this ailment of flowing with the assumption that You Know it All.


    -------------
    Sasha Khanzadeh


    Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
    Date Posted: 23 July 2008 at 1:53am
    "Whisper, I attended two expensive universities on scholarships.  I currently have a $20,000+ postgraduate bill."
     
    WoW! I'm sure you posted that you are 50+ years old and you still owe this much in college loans? What happened to your two scholarships and your financial advisor?


    -------------
    “No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    Posted By: Salams_wife
    Date Posted: 23 July 2008 at 2:05am
    Originally posted by aspacia

    Originally posted by Salams_wife

    "Occupation?  Iraq had free elections, and has Sharia Law.  This irks many citizens, but this is Iraq, and the people must make their own laws."
     
    I can't in all honesty agree with you there.  Many tried to vote in those elections and were forced to leave before casting their vote because it went against what the local militia wanted.  US troops were not stationed at all the poling stations and certainly not inside.  You can't know what was going on for that election.


    Okay, now do you have valid support for this claim?  I did not come across this information.

    Wink
     
    Like Whisper said, you can't hold an election under the current situation.  Violence is extreme and the media is going to make the elections look good to justify our actions in Iraq.  If you haven't noticed there is no reporting done on the streets of Iraq anymore.  They have to hide behind secure walls.  So how can you be sure there was a free and fair election when the reporters can't even get out to ask anyone.  Everything having to do with Iraq is all estimates at best.
     
    So you want to know how I know?  For one my husband is Iraqi and tried to vote in those elections and was forced away when his vote wasn't what they wanted.  For two, I have spoken to many Iraqi refugees while I was Jordan and Syria.  I was on the ground talking to real people effected by the current situation.  Can you say the same?  Where is your proof?  Find me some Iraqis who were there (and living in an area where they didn't support the same side as their local militias). 
     
    It is not that the US didn't want to give those elections freely and fairly.  It is that it was impossible to do under the current situation. 


    Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
    Date Posted: 23 July 2008 at 2:12am
    "Lived in the UK for a summer, traveled to France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Mexico.  My other half and I enjoy Globe Trotter, and other shows to better understand different cultures.  I live between So. Cal., and Nevada, and am surrounded by a very diverse cultures and languages.  Last quarter I had a Japanese, Farsi, Spanish speaking students. "
     
    You live in Nevada and S. California, you grew up in the Military, you have two expensive degrees, you are surrounded by Latinos and you hint that you are a teacher, yet you speak only English?

    I live in an area with many Latinos and the teachers here, with no formal Spanish, still speak and understand to a degree. They have to as the classes are mixed and not all children are fluent in English.

    Frankly, to be honest, your grasp of English grammar is lacking. I can point out several mistakes in the above copied paragraph and it is a mere four sentences.  I would have to be appalled at the higher education system if I truly believed you have double degrees.
     



    -------------
    “No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    Posted By: aspacia
    Date Posted: 23 July 2008 at 9:56am
    Originally posted by Whisper

    Okay, now do you have valid support for this claim?
    What the . . . . I am seriously tempted to use a word I never use. I will give you a valid support for the sheer fact THAT ANY ELECTIONS UNDER ARMY OCCUPATION are not elections.


    Correct, but I am curious regarding your implication that the U.S. prevented the people from voting their conscience.
     
    Just see how Anne Patterson (your Ambassador in Pakistan) is screwing up Democracy in Pakistan right at this very moment.[/quote]

    Didn't she support the freeing of opposition leaders?  I do not know much about her.
     
    Great (I wont use the most appropriate word here) Amreekans saving and caring for the world!!! Idiotic boring cultureless, power maniac control freaks produced by an even more boring square grid street system.


    The negative "Amreekans' implications, may lead to unpleasant implications regarding various Islamic countries.  Do you understand?

    Hum, I never found the East Coast cultureless, however the Southwest has little to no real culture.  Los Angeles has a few bits of culture, but not much.Las Vegas had a small Guggenheim, but it went out of business.  There are reasons for this, as people would rather be out having fun in the sun, than walking through a museum.  This is also reflected in student achievement scores.

    Boring, but practical square grids.  We do tend to be practical, and often adept at many trades.
     
    Get down from your ultra right wing horse and get straight with us. We know all these "provide me proof of this n deata for that" tricks of your DEBATE trade. The old Afghan is back after having total kidney failure and a mega Cardiac Arrest. And, in this very condition he will fry you.


    Ultra Right horse. Nah, only a 16 hand buckskin, and 15 hand unspotted racing appy. 

    Again, I was a Democrat for 50+ years, and left after Murtha and Durbin made more than one seditious comment, and the party turned totally Socialist, borderline communist.  Just a prochoice, feminist, Jeffersonian Democrat, similar to JFK, FDR, I liked Teddy too.




    -------------
    Curious


    Posted By: aspacia
    Date Posted: 23 July 2008 at 10:05am
    Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt

    Originally posted by aspacia

    Originally posted by Salams_wife

    "Occupation?  Iraq had free elections, and has Sharia Law.  This irks many citizens, but this is Iraq, and the people must make their own laws."
     
    I can't in all honesty agree with you there.  Many tried to vote in those elections and were forced to leave before casting their vote because it went against what the local militia wanted.  US troops were not stationed at all the poling stations and certainly not inside.  You can't know what was going on for that election.


    Okay, now do you have valid support for this claim?  I did not come across this information.

    Wink
     
    • [quote]19 Jan 05: http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200501/s1284857.htm - "US keeps locations of Iraqi voting booths secret," AEDT.
    "US authorities say Iraqis will vote in the insurgent centres of Fallujah and Ramadi but officials will keep the number and location of polling stations secret until the last minute to prevent attacks."
    • 20 Jan 05: Political Animal Kevin Drum at the Washington Monthly http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_01/005493.php - reports :
    "On ABC News tonight they had a report about preparations for voting in the city of Mosul. The original plan was to have 100 polling places, but because of the violence there that's been cut down to 40.
    "The population of Mosul is 2 million, and you can probably figure that about two-thirds of that number are eligible to vote. That means each polling place will have to handle 33,000 voters. Even if turnout is only 50%, that's still about 16,000 people per polling station.
    "Even 100 polling stations sounds like far, far too few. But 40?"
    Karl Vick and Robin Wright, " http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36582-2005Jan25.html - Washington Post, January 26, 2005.
  • Robert Fisk, CounterPunch Election series
    • http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk01122005.html - "Fear Stalks Baghdad: The City Where Even Police Hide Behind Masks," The Independent (UK) via CounterPunch, January 12, 2005.
    • http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk01142005.html - "The Tent of Occupation: Fallujah's Refugees Won't Return Home, Won't Vote," The Independent (UK) via CounterPunch, January 14, 2005.
    • http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk01152005.html - "Flying Carpet Airlines: My Return to Baghdad," The Independent (UK) via CounterPunch, January 15/16, 2005.
    • http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk01172005.html - "Hotel Room Journalism: The US Press in Iraq," The Independent (UK) via CounterPunch, January 17, 2005.
    • http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk01292005.html - "The Shia Will Inherit Iraq: This Election Will Change the World, But Not in the Way the US Wanted," The Independent (UK) via CounterPunch, January 29/30, 2005.
    • http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk01312005.html - "No One Believes the Insurgency Will End: Amid Tragedy, Defiance," The Independent (UK) via CounterPunch, January 31, 2005.
  • Dahr Jamail, " http://ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=27256 - Some Just Voted for Food ", Inter Press Service, January 31, 2005. "Voting in Baghdad was linked with receipt of food rations, several voters said after the Sunday poll."
  • http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Robert_Parry - Robert Parry , " http://www.consortiumnews.com/Print/2005/020305.html - Sinking in Deeper ", ConsortiumNews, February 3, 2005.
  • Edward Herman, http://www.zmag.org/content/print_article.cfm?itemID=7240&sectionID=15 - "The Election In Iraq : The U.S. Propaganda System Is Still Working In High Gear,"] ZNet, February 13, 2005.
  • Douglas Jehl and David E. Sanger, " http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/17/politics/17elect.html?ei=5070&en=eee1eded45ea8068&ex=1122264000&emc=eta1&pagewanted=print - Plan Called for Covert Aid in Iraq Vote ", New York Times, July 17, 2005.
  • http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Seymour_M._Hersh - Seymour M. Hersh , http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/050725fa_fact - "Get Out the Vote. Did Washington try to manipulate Iraq’s election?" The New Yorker, posted online July 18, 2005; July 25, 2005 (issue).
  • Excellent supportSmile  This is the type of information I am hoping for.  They eyes and research of others aids my research and analysis. 

    With appreciation.


    -------------
    Curious


    Posted By: aspacia
    Date Posted: 23 July 2008 at 10:11am
    Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt

    Originally posted by aspacia

    Originally posted by Salams_wife

    "Occupation?  Iraq had free elections, and has Sharia Law.  This irks many citizens, but this is Iraq, and the people must make their own laws."
     
    I can't in all honesty agree with you there.  Many tried to vote in those elections and were forced to leave before casting their vote because it went against what the local militia wanted.  US troops were not stationed at all the poling stations and certainly not inside.  You can't know what was going on for that election.


    Okay, now do you have valid support for this claim?  I did not come across this information.

    Wink
     
    • 19 Jan 05: http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200501/s1284857.htm - "US keeps locations of Iraqi voting booths secret," AEDT.
    "US authorities say Iraqis will vote in the insurgent centres of Fallujah and Ramadi but officials will keep the number and location of polling stations secret until the last minute to prevent attacks."
    • 20 Jan 05: Political Animal Kevin Drum at the Washington Monthly http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_01/005493.php - reports :
    "On ABC News tonight they had a report about preparations for voting in the city of Mosul. The original plan was to have 100 polling places, but because of the violence there that's been cut down to 40.
    "The population of Mosul is 2 million, and you can probably figure that about two-thirds of that number are eligible to vote. That means each polling place will have to handle 33,000 voters. Even if turnout is only 50%, that's still about 16,000 people per polling station.
    "Even 100 polling stations sounds like far, far too few. But 40?"
    Karl Vick and Robin Wright, " http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36582-2005Jan25.html - Washington Post, January 26, 2005.
  • Robert Fisk, CounterPunch Election series
    • http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk01122005.html - "Fear Stalks Baghdad: The City Where Even Police Hide Behind Masks," The Independent (UK) via CounterPunch, January 12, 2005.
    • http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk01142005.html - "The Tent of Occupation: Fallujah's Refugees Won't Return Home, Won't Vote," The Independent (UK) via CounterPunch, January 14, 2005.
    • http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk01152005.html - "Flying Carpet Airlines: My Return to Baghdad," The Independent (UK) via CounterPunch, January 15/16, 2005.
    • http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk01172005.html - "Hotel Room Journalism: The US Press in Iraq," The Independent (UK) via CounterPunch, January 17, 2005.
    • http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk01292005.html - "The Shia Will Inherit Iraq: This Election Will Change the World, But Not in the Way the US Wanted," The Independent (UK) via CounterPunch, January 29/30, 2005.
    • http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk01312005.html - "No One Believes the Insurgency Will End: Amid Tragedy, Defiance," The Independent (UK) via CounterPunch, January 31, 2005.
  • Dahr Jamail, " http://ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=27256 - Some Just Voted for Food ", Inter Press Service, January 31, 2005. "Voting in Baghdad was linked with receipt of food rations, several voters said after the Sunday poll."
  • http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Robert_Parry - Robert Parry , " http://www.consortiumnews.com/Print/2005/020305.html - Sinking in Deeper ", ConsortiumNews, February 3, 2005.
  • Edward Herman, http://www.zmag.org/content/print_article.cfm?itemID=7240&sectionID=15 - "The Election In Iraq : The U.S. Propaganda System Is Still Working In High Gear,"] ZNet, February 13, 2005.
  • Douglas Jehl and David E. Sanger, " http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/17/politics/17elect.html?ei=5070&en=eee1eded45ea8068&ex=1122264000&emc=eta1&pagewanted=print - Plan Called for Covert Aid in Iraq Vote ", New York Times, July 17, 2005.
  • http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Seymour_M._Hersh - Seymour M. Hersh , http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/050725fa_fact - "Get Out the Vote. Did Washington try to manipulate Iraq’s election?" The New Yorker, posted online July 18, 2005; July 25, 2005 (issue).


  • Smile  Excellent support.  This is the type of information to help with my analysis.

    With appreciationClap


    Smile

    -------------
    Curious


    Posted By: aspacia
    Date Posted: 24 July 2008 at 7:22am
    Originally posted by JihadX

    I hate America!! I wish i could pack up and move.. i wasn't exactly invited to this country anyway


    How so?  Were you ancestors slaves?  You can leave anytime.  Canada is nice during this time of year.


    -------------
    Curious


    Posted By: aspacia
    Date Posted: 24 July 2008 at 7:43am
    Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt

    "I am one of the kaffir or infidels or dhiminis in the Middle-East, are you in the U.S. "
    "I read a huge amount of Arab media, especially while on vacation"
     
    Hal tal takallum Arabi? Keef haalik? Kulshi Bekhir?
     
    Fin katskun? Shehal mad wenta hna? Ash kat'amli? Wash fhemti?
     
    It's transliteration and if you can speak Arabic you should be able to understand.

     
    I assumed that since you wrote this you understood, spoke, or read Arabic. If you are not living in the Middle East and do not understand the language how have you become so intimately acquainted with all things Arab and Muslim?



    I read the English versions, and most Muslims do not speak Arabic, hence, according to your logic they cannot be familiar with Middle-Eastern issues and media as well. This old chestnut does not work.

     
    "Yes, so did my brother, uncles, mother and father.  Father was on the tin can Roan when it was sunk off the coast of Salerno. None were lifers, but served their time."  "Also, I am monolingual"

    I don't know which army your mother and father were in, but when we were stationed overseas we HAD to learn the language of the country in which we were stationed. It was mandatory in school. I learned German from grade 1 to grade 4, I learned French from grade 4 to grade 6, and Spanish from grade 6 through high school. No choice. The Arabic I learned on my own, although now I hear it is an option for dependents.  I also know some bad words in Korean and Italian, but that's from other army brats not formal training.[quote]
     
    ExcellentSmile  This is common in the military.  I grew up in a military neighborhood near Norton. Most of the children in the neighborhood could speak 2 or more languages, but if they stay in the states, they tend to lose the languages, as I did.

    [quote]So if both of your parents were military how could you possibly have escaped being at least bilingual? The odds of this occuring are astronomical. I'm beginning to think you're not quite honest.


    I was born in 1953, after my parents were honorably discharged after WWII.  I may have many faults, but dishonesty is not one of them.  My father was indeed on a tin can, and fought in both the Pacific and Atlantic theaters.  Mom survived the bombing of Plymouth. and was in the military as well.  After Pop's tin can was sunk off Salerno, (more than half the crew perished), he was sent to England for R and R, where he met mum.  My brother was stationed in Mainz, Germany. 
     
    [quote]Prove me wrong with some valid support.....
      LOLLOLLOL  Good jab.

    Do you want a picture of dad and mum in uniform?  I may be able to rummage around in my cedar chest and find their discharge papers.  I can do this, but will not be able to post this until tomorrow.
    LOL
    LOL



    -------------
    Curious


    Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
    Date Posted: 24 July 2008 at 11:57am

    Most Muslims are not from the Middle East and are not experts in current Middle Eastern culture, which is not the same as the religion of Islam. Expecting all Muslims worldwide to be experts in Middle Eastern culture and norms would be like expecting all Christians worldwide to be experts in Middle Eastern culture and norms. After all, both religions originated in the same place and trace their roots back to the same beginning.

    Only about 20% of Muslims are Arabs and while Islam does encourage Muslims to learn Arabic to be able to read The Quran in it's original form it does not encourage Muslims to become Arabs or to follow Arabian culture. In fact, Islam leaves all culture out of the equation completely.  


    -------------
    “No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    Posted By: Whisper
    Date Posted: 25 July 2008 at 2:45am

    The negative "Amreekans' implications, may lead to unpleasant implications regarding various Islamic countries.  Do you understand?

     

    Is that some kind of a threat? You mean the U S will be more nasty? Send more troops, create a hundred Falujas and scorch all the Muslims lands?

    Come on, we are waiting for the ultimate of your MIGHT.

     

    Didn't she support the freeing of opposition leaders?  I do not know much about her.

     

    Yes, the U S did act to get theose corrupt opposition leaeder freed who had pledged to act the US dirty script. BUT, your entire admin is blocking the reinstatement of our actual real independent JUDICIARY.

     

    All criminals are scared of an honest judge.

     

    Hum, I never found the East Coast cultureless, however the Southwest has little to no real culture. 

     

    The saddest fact of Life is that any culture takes a good thousand years just to germinate and then another thousand to mature into being recognised as culture.

    Comprende?

     

    And now on your Iraqi Elections.

    Just read my lips. Whether your soldiers were posted on the polling stations or not – AN ELECTION UNDER ARMY OCCUPATION IS A FARCE, A FRAUDULENT FARCE AT THAT.

     

    To the inhabitants of these lands, Iraq or Afghanistan, occupation is occupation be it by the US troops, Russians or who else ever.

     

    Comprende?

    Or just still lost somehwher in your straight simple idotic square grid streets?

     
    Just look at your own self and you will know why the whole world pities los pobres Amrekanos!


    -------------
    Sasha Khanzadeh


    Posted By: Salams_wife
    Date Posted: 25 July 2008 at 10:49pm
    Hey Whisper, I like my square grid streets.  Its easier to not get lost.  Anytime I am in a city that doesn't have them it drives me crazy, literally.  Don't knock the streets, please.


    Posted By: Whisper
    Date Posted: 26 July 2008 at 2:55am

    Hey Whisper, I like my square grid streets.  Its easier to not get lost.  Anytime I am in a city that doesn't have them it drives me crazy, literally.  Don't knock the streets, please.

     

    Hola!

    I know, I love them too. Absolutely straightforward negotiation! Though, I love being lost as I always do, say, in the Jewish quarter of Cordoba. I also love all those dusty winding street we find in Farsi poetry.

     

    I think I should stop blaming the poor streets.

    Perhaps the straight narowness of Americanism is founded on the sheer fact that we swear allegiance to a piece of cloth, with stars and stripes. That becomes the most important thing of our lives, it turns into the very basis of our life and thinking.

     

    Humanity and the rest of the world can go to hell.

    In fact, it ceases to exist for us.

     

    Shall we call it sublime nationalism? Or patriotism almost bordring on criminality?



    -------------
    Sasha Khanzadeh


    Posted By: Salams_wife
    Date Posted: 26 July 2008 at 9:52am
    I think it has a lot to do with the isolation factor.  Many people don't care because everywhere else seems so far away.  All the time I point out even the simplest known facts around the world and people look at me like "how did you know that"?  I think don't you read, watch the news, something?  Even if it is biased, at least it give you an idea of what is going on.  I talked to a guy yesterday that couldn't figure out why we had problems with Pakistan.  Of course I'm not an expert, but I pointed out to him that since Pakistan has nukes we like to control the leadership.  He was like "Pakistan has nukes"?   God, I give up.  They really don't know anything.  For myself, I'll just keep trying to learn and grow so at least I will not be ignorant.  I wanted to ask you if there are any books out there that you can recommend for reading.  I've been focusing my reading on the gulf countries for some time and would like to find something good for the region with Pakistan/Afghanistan.  The closest I ever got was the Kite Runner and that was a fictional story.


    Posted By: Hayfa
    Date Posted: 26 July 2008 at 5:04pm
    Grid Streets:
     
    Whisper.. well we in Wash DC do not have a normal grid whatsoever. We have convolution all around.. angled streets, same street within different quadrants..
     
    I was on the bus recently and we came to one of the circles.. only to find a moving van facing the wrong direction.. (they go one way).
     
    So I think it says something that Wash DC was PLANNED And its dreafully confusing for people at times here in the streets of DC.. lol


    -------------
    When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi


    Posted By: Salams_wife
    Date Posted: 26 July 2008 at 5:20pm
    I found DC very easy to get around in and I've never lived there.  I used to make me laugh that people would ask me for directions even though I don't live there and had been there just for a few days to visit.  I mean you have the alphabet streets so common sense says follow the alphabet if your going that direction.  If you have the numbered streets so you can easily figure out if your going up or down in numbers and turn around if you need to.  This leave just a smaller few streets that generally go diagonal to remember and the circles aren't hard.  I never drove in that city though.  That would have made things difficult with all the one way streets.  Walking and taking the subway was much easier.


    Posted By: Whisper
    Date Posted: 31 July 2008 at 1:51pm

    Salam’s Wife y Hayfa

    I feel terribly guilty. While we were into all those streets, he / she / it just disappeared into thin blue air. We have lost our most educated entertainment.

    Now what shall I do.



    -------------
    Sasha Khanzadeh


    Posted By: mariyah
    Date Posted: 31 July 2008 at 3:58pm
    Originally posted by aspacia

    Originally posted by JihadX

    I hate America!! I wish i could pack up and move.. i wasn't exactly invited to this country anyway


    You can pack and move.  Just save your coins and leave, as we do not want those who hate us.Dead
     
    My how nasty, must have hit a nerve somewhere in this person. Actually since I am a daughter of the american revolution and Muslim, YOU LEAVE!
    I am ashamed that my  grandmother's ancestors fought and died to give you the freedom to spout your poison!
     
     
    As for the "southwest" not having any "culture" evidently you  are misinformed, very similar to the supremist genre of humans  that moved here and arrogantly assumed that they  were superior because they  were of the "white" culture that holds power.
     
    Caucasian americans are the invaders. America forcibly stole this part of america from Mexico when they invaded Ciudad De Mexico in the mid 1800's and forced the weak government of Mexico to sign over what is now parts of colorado, utah, arizona, new mexico and Alta california. ("Treaty" of Guadalupe Hildalgo) Part of your manifest destiny at play. And now it is going overseas and spilling onto the peoples of Iraq, Afghanistan and where ever the boats land...
    As for the desert southwest, the local culture is here, people who spout silliness such as yours do not see it because of the ivory towers you have closed yourselves up in. Often those involved in the limited perspective of academia cannot sit with the common man and share a meal. I guess you will feel it though when La Migra comes to your door and spirits away your illegal immigrant house maid. My, we may have to swab the loo yet!
     
    You would benefit more from the world if you stopped looking down your nose at others who are different than yourself  and bring yourself to their level and try to imagine what it it like to walk in their shoes and imagine their pains and joys, cultural norms and perspectives. Perhaps as you have traveled in the desert southwest you have noticed the domed churches with the separate standing bell towers dotting the landscape, or the preference for stucco finished flat houses that have red curved tile roofing?
    Can you guess where that originated? Welcome to the cultural influences of Islamic Spain!
    Islam is here and it is here to stay!
     
     


    -------------
    "Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.


    Posted By: Whisper
    Date Posted: 13 August 2008 at 11:40am

    As for the "southwest" not having any "culture" evidently you are misinformed, very similar to the supremist genre of humans that moved here and arrogantly assumed that they were superior because they were of the "white" culture that holds power.

    Hamsheerém,

    Pobre thing just vanished, or, shall I say, your spirit made it evaporate in the thin blue air. But, I do miss such interesting things that appear every now and then in our midst.

    Back in good old Spain and enjoying it.



    -------------
    Sasha Khanzadeh



    Print Page | Close Window