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sucide bombers

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Culture & Community
Forum Name: Groups – Men (Brothers)
Forum Discription: Groups – Men (Brothers)
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12656
Printed Date: 30 July 2014 at 12:07am


Topic: sucide bombers
Posted By: ibnoumer
Subject: sucide bombers
Date Posted: 17 June 2008 at 1:07am
Confusedasselamualeykum what is ur opinion towards sucide bombers? please give me ideas concerning on qu ran & hadeath.



Replies:
Posted By: Saladin
Date Posted: 18 June 2008 at 10:09am

 Salaam Alaikum,

 Suicide bombing is unislamic and haram. Its haram coz its suicide with the possibility of murdering innocents. Suicide amounts to disbelief and murder is the 2nd greatest sin. "Cause" doesnt justify the "means".



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'Trust everyone but not the devil in them'


Posted By: Ruhi Islam
Date Posted: 09 October 2008 at 1:38pm
Salamu alaman atabal huda, peace to those on the guidance
 
I don't think a 'suicide bomber' (which by the way is a misnomer or false terminology coined by the western world) is committing suicide as such, it's more of a war tactic than anything else, hence it should be called martyr operations or tactics or something like that. Allow me to explain: A person who commits suicide is one who has lost hope and their intention is to kill none but themselves right? Allah sw knows best as to the fate of these people (the Quran states those who commit suicide will abide in hell forever and Allah sw anger and curse is upon them).
 
However, the intention ('actions are by intentions') of palistinians is not to kill themselves, rather the enemies, throwing stones doesn't get very far, and so their only means at getting back at the enemy who by the way has the full support of the US is by blowing themselves up. I know that sounds terrible and in the process, innocent lives of civilians are lost which is not what Islam advices in the context of war, but that is a different story altogether.
 
What the Palestinians are doing is an act of resistance, they are trying to protect their families and their land and above all, to fight the outright enemies of Islam. The Islamic Fiqh Academy stresses that martyr operations are a form of jihad, and carrying out those operations is a legitimate right that has nothing to do with terrorism or suicide. Those operations become obligatory when they become the only way to stop the aggression of the enemy, defeat it, and grievously damage its power. I am not condoning nor am I condemning such measures as I am not very educated on this topic.

In Islam, perhaps it doesnt explicitly say you can strap explosives to your body and bomb yourselve up, but then again, where in Islam does it say you cant smoke? This is where Islamic jurisprudence comes in, taking the Quran and hadiths, and infering or giving fatwas based on it. It's the same here. With the loss of israeli civilians, well what can you do, these palistinians clearly cannot enter amidst the israeli forces due to the tight security so their next best bet is the streets. And why be concerned about that when millions of innocent lives on the other side are being taken? I know a life is a life, i know two wrongs does not make a right... but this is not fair, it's injustice and oppression.
 
By the way, you know that many palistinians have died as a result of fellow palistinians blowing themselves up right? I am uncomfortable with calling them martyrs, clearly, it's a different notion to the martyrs we are used to from the seera (islamic history) but just as equally, I am uncomfortable with calling them suicide bombers.
 
So in sum, I do not think it's a cowardice and a criminal act, without an iota of doubt, what the israelis and the US is doing is a google times more cowardice and criminal. We have to understand the context, remember the importance of context! And we have to understand the situation and the history and the people involved.
 
Just before I forget, I doubt it so much that these palistinians have been brainwashed, they have not been brainwashed as western propaganda suggests, they are people whose tolerance and patience level has been crossed from every angle possible, these people are pissed off more than you can imagin, hence they resort to such measures. That is just my understanding anyway, who knows, maybe my stance will change in the future, but for now, Allah sw knows best.
 
Also, do you think if other countries supported Palistinians, they would resort to such measures? It is easy to call this haram, unislamic and what have you, but I think we need to go deeper than that, lets look at the roots.


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Judge the deed, not the breed. Islam & Muslims are two different things, a Muslim should not necessarily be associated with Islam.


Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 10 October 2008 at 10:27am
Originally posted by ibnoumer

Confusedasselamualeykum what is ur opinion towards sucide bombers? please give me ideas concerning on qu ran & hadeath.
 
Assalamu Alaikum,

"On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land."

Qur'an 5:32
 
Also, it is important that we refer to expert scholarly sources to learn about Islam. 
 
May Allah guide us all.
 
Peace


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Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13


Posted By: Saladin
Date Posted: 11 October 2008 at 9:02am
Assalamu Alaikum,
 
Sister Ruhi, please read 'The Hijacked Caravan' and decide whether 'suicide bombing' is 'martrydom operation' or just 'suicide bombing'.
 
http://www.ihsanic-intelligence.com/dox/The_Hijacked_Caravan.pdf - http://www.ihsanic-intelligence.com/dox/The_Hijacked_Caravan.pdf  


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'Trust everyone but not the devil in them'


Posted By: Talib_Asadullah
Date Posted: 08 January 2009 at 5:36pm
Originally posted by Saladin

Assalamu Alaikum,
 
Sister Ruhi, please read 'The Hijacked Caravan' and decide whether 'suicide bombing' is 'martrydom operation' or just 'suicide bombing'.
 
http://www.ihsanic-intelligence.com/dox/The_Hijacked_Caravan.pdf - http://www.ihsanic-intelligence.com/dox/The_Hijacked_Caravan.pdf  


Thanks for the piece, Insha'Allah Ill find the time soon for it.

Shukran JazakAllah


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Al-Qur'an was-Sunnah


Posted By: nu001
Date Posted: 08 January 2009 at 11:12pm
'Suicide bomber' Tag is a western invention to make the act look bad.
Any soldier going to war knows that he/she has a high risk of getting killed.
 
The heroes of all the wars for which they are given the highest honour of their country; like VC in UK have all committed suicides. When a soldier does an act during the war knowing that the death is inevitable, is called a hero & honoured as such. What's the problem when a muslim shows an act of heroism in the western definition?
 
Talk of killing innocent people? What the israel has done in lebanon and is doing in palestine? What the US is doing in Iraq? What the US & NATO is doing in Afg?
 
Why do some of us gets cought by the self contradicting western propagandas? Is it Lack of Iman? That they are forced to think an act of heroism by a muslim to be wrong, just because of the western propaganda?
 


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"Al-Quran-The only Straight path to success. Alhamdulillah"


Posted By: Talib_Asadullah
Date Posted: 14 October 2009 at 4:05pm
Martyrdom operations are totally permissible.

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Al-Qur'an was-Sunnah


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 14 October 2009 at 6:26pm
Salams, they are right it is not really commiting suicide.May Allah Bless you brothers for telling the truth


Posted By: fais
Date Posted: 27 October 2009 at 12:54am
Salam,
wow sister Ruhi,i appreciate the time you have taken to explain the topic,yes these english speaking non muslims has the art and means to change the meanings of a simple word according to their convinience,for example the word 'GAY' means happy but now they have changed the meaning and it is used for homosexuals,meaning of GAY is completely changed according to their society convinience,these great scholars i think dont realise that being homosexual is a great sin according to most of the relegions and it a is psycologycal disorder.
 
there are many such word like fundamentalist, extremist which is now directly used for muslims but actual meanings is totally different.once these words were used for extremely relgious christians.
 
take the example of U.S in the world war II,when they were attacked by japanese at pearl harbour in return U.S destroyed their two major cities heroshima and nagasaki with thousands of innocent people living,the japanese are still facing physical disorder in their new borns because of those nuclear attacks.my question to those who change the meaning of words that please tell me what was this called,if you ask me it is the biggest wound ever given to the mankind.they say it was the retaliation to the japanese agretion so if any muslim does the same why he is tagged as terrorist or sucide bombers.
 
We muslims need to undersatnd these war stratagies of the non belivers,they change the meanings of the words and very wisely make us accept that we are wrong and eventually win us psycolgically and physically.
 
so be very carefull when you use anyword for our muslim brothers because your utterance of those words defeats the  muslim community psycologically.they make you call yourself terrorist.so be carefull


Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 27 October 2009 at 6:10am
Salams,
I think we should be careful about this and please excuse my views if you do not agree.
 
This is not really about western propaganda. Nor are we limiting suicide bombings to the awful situation in Palestine. I completely agree it is wrong the way Israel are handling this and fully understand why the Palestinians act on the situation.
 
We are all aware that when men sign up to the armed forces they do so knowing full well they might die. It is a human right for any individual to decide on this. It comes perhaps from a sense of loyalty to their country and has nothing to do with personal heroism.They also know they might have to kill.  Again, one has to scrutinise his own conscience. Unlike other past wars western men are no longer conscripted into the forces...(unless you talk about the Swiss who I believe make it compulsory for men and women to do basic war training, and also Israel do the same and they serve for I think 2 years.)
 
 When refering to the 1st and 2nd World War conscripted men had no choice but to drop bombs and kill civilians...either on Japan, Germany, Great Britain, France etc etc etc .
 
We should also remember  that THOSE that voluntered for these wars came from ALL religious backgrounds, yet still fought regardless. Are any of you aware that thousands of blacks and asians in the UK fought in these wars? Not all soldiers were CHristian were they? We should remember this.
 
I am not in agreeance with any current war, regardless of who instigates it. But with wars there are inevitable deaths. War is odious. But wars will continue.
 
With suicide bombers they are random acts which kill people who even are on the same side. That kind of war  is based on misconcieved ideas about ISlam only. Nowhere does it say that jihad has anything to do with oil or politics. Jihad has it's purpose, I fully understand the truths in that. 
 
With western wars it is a combination of several things, religion can be included if you like. This kind of war can also be wrong but not always. For example Hitler wanted to rule the world and take away all freedoms. People everywhere did not want a dictator. Had he succeeded we would not now enjoy the freedom we have in Europe to make personal decisions. Ultimately the whole world have suffered the same fate. Blacks, asians, jews,christians, muslims would all have died by his hands. In fact he would have killed everyone that 'didnt fit in'. He wanted a blonde haired,blue eyed aryan society and 20,000 of them were born under the Lebensborn system. He wanted nothing else. Even the german children that didnt fit in were also murdered.
http://www.holocaust-trc.org/unwanted.pdf - http://www.holocaust-trc.org/unwanted.pdf
Can you imagine a world without muslims? Of course not. So Hitler had to be stopped. In these intstances war is sometimes necessary. I believe Allah made it possible to stop this happening.
 
So how can we have a legalised Islamic war where it is organised? Is that possible when muslims come from all corners of the earth, from different cultures and with different views? I somehow doubt it. Would that then be allowed under ISlamic conditions? Views please:)
 
In essence legalised war ( I use this term lightly by the way)is a form of organised chaos. At times it is necessary and at times it is not wrong.
 
 


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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 27 October 2009 at 10:18am
Salams Martha,I hear you! and thanks for you reply.This topic of disscusion is for Groups – Men (Brothers).But since we let one join already I will comment on your reply.Speaking of Hilter the topic is about sucide bombers.You using Hiltler as an example of taking away peoples freedom, good job! but it seems the west wants to force theirs on others,Jihad has its purpose in this situation,you cant get yourself right if you are being opressed by others right.


Posted By: fais
Date Posted: 27 October 2009 at 10:13pm
Salam,
 
the topic was weather the term sucide bombers is correct or not,and i explained in my way how west changes the meanings of words,its kind of psycological war.
 
allied forces joined hands to suppress the agression of hitlor and japanese but were they correct,what british did in india was done by hitlor in germany what is the difference between the two.after the the second world war allied forces shared the colonies which was held by natsis and japanese,so plz martha dont say that allied forces fought for their freedom only,they fought for their interest in colonies.i dont find any difference between natsis and british,what british did in india can never be forgeten by indians,they killed innocent they raped woman,they created fight between hindus and muslims the effect is still we face,has anyone heard a state called gujrat in india,hear in the last riots more than 1000 muslims were burnt alive and thousands of houses were set fire,muslim women were made stripped and raped by rioting mobs,the seed of bitterness british sowed we indian muslims still paying the cost of it.
 
supporters of allied forces say that they fought for their freedom another word you see they found for their deadly crimes.
 
who gave the right to allied forces to vacate 7lakh arab muslims in one night  from palastine to relocate the jews,u see another word relocate they have,its not they wanted to relocate only they wanted a base in the middle east and now they do whatever they want through their illegitimate baby ISRAEL which they have declared legitimate cause they have power,where is the state of palastine in the map can anyone say,this is another kind of psycological war where u wipe out the existance of a state when there is nothing in the map what you will fight for our children will feel we are fighting for a land which never belonged to to us.
 
martha gave an example of african fighting in the world war,i would like to inform that british ruled a nation like india with merely 20000 british officers the rest army was indian which includes muslims and hindus,these people did not fight because they thought british were right they fought beacause they were paid for it,it was their bread and butter.so you can say that they master in using your own people against you in exchange of food,comfort,or any unislamic thing.
 
i hope someone reply my post. 


Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 28 October 2009 at 12:24pm
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah

Salams Martha,I hear you! and thanks for you reply.This topic of disscusion is for Groups – Men (Brothers).But since we let one join already I will comment on your reply.Speaking of Hilter the topic is about sucide bombers.You using Hiltler as an example of taking away peoples freedom, good job! but it seems the west wants to force theirs on others,Jihad has its purpose in this situation,you cant get yourself right if you are being opressed by others right.
 
Walaikum assalam Akhe,
I apologise, I did not see this post was in the brothers section. I just read it and joined in, so sorry for that.
But you are right that you should not oppress others. Smile
I know the talk was of suicide bombers so am a bit confused as to why others started talking about the western wars? Not to worry. No big deal.


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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set


Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 28 October 2009 at 12:53pm
Salams BRother Fais,
 I am tired and have had a long day but I reply this once out of courtesy. Akhe has pointed out that this topic is in the brothers forum, so I shall not reply again in this topic.
BUt before I log off I want to say that muslims and hindus were fighting eachother long before the British went to India. Also both religious groups wanted a separation and my understanding is that this was why India became split to India and Pakistan. It was not forced on them.
 
The indians that came to the UK came because they wanted  to, and I have heard many older asian people say that India was better under British rule. I cannot comment on that. I know that British soldiers did some very bad things in India, but so did muslims and hindus and they are of same race! And you cannot blame the way muslims and hindus act today is becuase of the fault of the British! We left long time ago. So why are people not peaceful with eachother now in India and Pakistan? Please do not say that it is because of Afghanistan and Kashmir...people can still be kind to their neighbour. It is like I say to any asian muslim brother..'I hate you because my Pak husband was bad'. WOuld I be right to do that? No of course not, so I do not.
 
So those asians that fought in the 2nd world war WANTED to, it was not about money, they already had come here and were working. Those that were in the British army mnay years before did it for the money, just like the Pak boys and men today join and fight alongside the taliban because they are paid for it and they can provide for their family better.
 
The British and the Nazi's were not the same at all. OK, 2hundred years ago Britain ruled a large part of the world. BUt when people insisted we give the countries back then we did. Hitler would not have done that at all.  And the 2nd world war was not to do with colonies. It was mainly faught in Europe and then spread other parts. We opted for the war when HItler invaded Poland.
 
I find it incredulous that asians can still blame Britian today for what happened so long ago. Also please remember that the British public and government give SO much money to both Pak and India today when they still have so many problems. We have no interest in either of these countries, certainly the general British public do not, so why do they give so generously? You obviously do not know the true feeling of British people and rely upon stories of old to forge your views.
 
The fact is many asians still choose to come here for economic reasons. SO they hate us so much they are trying to punish us now? THey have no other reason to come here if they dont like us.
 
It is so wrong to blame the existing BRitains for the faults of their forefathers.
 
Lol, I think I have said enough. DO not be offended by my words Fais:) I will refrain from replying to this topic again as its brothers section.  See you in another topicSmile
 
(sorry admin that I have replied here)


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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set


Posted By: Saladin
Date Posted: 30 October 2009 at 7:44am
Suicide or martyrdom, whatever - you kill someone you're not supposed to kill even on the battle field, you're in big trouble.
 
And btw men's section alrite but not men's room.


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'Trust everyone but not the devil in them'


Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 30 October 2009 at 11:44am
And btw men's section alrite but not men's room.

LOL  ya and few men pop into the women's section.. .lol


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When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi


Posted By: fais
Date Posted: 30 October 2009 at 9:54pm
Salam,
 
well there is no harm to have the views from both men and women.
 
Regards
 
 


Posted By: fais
Date Posted: 31 October 2009 at 8:40am
Salam Dear sister Martha,
thnx for the time,plz feel free to comment regardless of which section the topic belongs to.
 
i think you dont know the history,divide and rule is the policy of british and the allied forces,they seperated west bengal and east bengal which is now called bangladesh on the basis of relegion and the very purpose was to make  hindus and muslims feel they are seperate,
 
we did not get our freedom as a peace of cake it took us 200 yrs to get it,so plz dont say they gave the freedom to countries when they asked for,and also when they left any country before leaving they plundered their whole weath,the kohinoor diomond of queens crown in britain is the biggest example which originally belonged to the muslim emporors of delhi,you go see the wall of the palaces they took all the prercious stones even from the walls,they plundered india and than left with seed of bitterness this is a long term planning.


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 06 November 2009 at 7:10am
Salams brothers and sisters.At least six months ago, Hasan came to the attention of law enforcement officials because of Internet postings about suicide bombings and other threats, including posts that equated suicide bombers to soldiers who throw themselves on a grenade to save the lives of their comrades.This is from an article posted in the current event section (see for details)equating suicide bombers to soldiers who throw themselves on a grenade to save the lives of their comrades(interesting theory)when I think of ones sacrafice as being the soul purpose behind their actions.


Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 06 November 2009 at 7:18am
Yes, I have heard this also. If this is the case why did the enforcement officials not act on it. Too late now.

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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 06 November 2009 at 7:37am
Salams,I guess it is not news if nothing happens.Yes it is to late now,but just in time to headline more negative things about Muslims.May Allah have Mercy on him.


Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 06 November 2009 at 7:49am
Walaikum assalam,
I guess its about getting a balance really. LEts hope in some ways they decide he was unstable
I know that sounds terrible, but these are really trying times for all.

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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 06 November 2009 at 10:03am
Salams Martha you have a point,if he is mentally ill then he does'nt realize what he did was wrong in the U.S court of law it's called not guilty by reason of insanity(Im not justifing his actions).Allah Knows.May Allah have Mercy on him


Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 06 November 2009 at 12:37pm
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah

Salams Martha you have a point,if he is mentally ill then he does'nt realize what he did was wrong in the U.S court of law it's called not guilty by reason of insanity(Im not justifing his actions).Allah Knows.May Allah have Mercy on him


Yes I agree, it would be seen as not guilty.


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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set


Posted By: nu001
Date Posted: 06 November 2009 at 9:58pm
Originally posted by martha

Salams BRother Fais,
 I am tired and have had a long day but I reply this once out of courtesy. Akhe has pointed out that this topic is in the brothers forum, so I shall not reply again in this topic.
BUt before I log off I want to say that muslims and hindus were fighting each other long before the British went to India. Also both religious groups wanted a separation and my understanding is that this was why India became split to India and Pakistan. It was not forced on them.
 
The indians that came to the UK came because they wanted  to, and I have heard many older asian people say that India was better under British rule. I cannot comment on that. I know that British soldiers did some very bad things in India, but so did muslims and hindus and they are of same race! And you cannot blame the way muslims and hindus act today is becuase of the fault of the British! We left long time ago. So why are people not peaceful with eachother now in India and Pakistan? Please do not say that it is because of Afghanistan and Kashmir...people can still be kind to their neighbour. It is like I say to any asian muslim brother..'I hate you because my Pak husband was bad'. WOuld I be right to do that? No of course not, so I do not.
 
So those asians that fought in the 2nd world war WANTED to, it was not about money, they already had come here and were working. Those that were in the British army mnay years before did it for the money, just like the Pak boys and men today join and fight alongside the taliban because they are paid for it and they can provide for their family better.
 
The British and the Nazi's were not the same at all. OK, 2hundred years ago Britain ruled a large part of the world. BUt when people insisted we give the countries back then we did. Hitler would not have done that at all.  And the 2nd world war was not to do with colonies. It was mainly faught in Europe and then spread other parts. We opted for the war when HItler invaded Poland.
 
I find it incredulous that asians can still blame Britian today for what happened so long ago. Also please remember that the British public and government give SO much money to both Pak and India today when they still have so many problems. We have no interest in either of these countries, certainly the general British public do not, so why do they give so generously? You obviously do not know the true feeling of British people and rely upon stories of old to forge your views.
 
The fact is many asians still choose to come here for economic reasons. SO they hate us so much they are trying to punish us now? THey have no other reason to come here if they dont like us.
 
It is so wrong to blame the existing BRitains for the faults of their forefathers.
 
Lol, I think I have said enough. DO not be offended by my words Fais:) I will refrain from replying to this topic again as its brothers section.  See you in another topicSmile
 
(sorry admin that I have replied here)
 
Distorted history ! or just the British perspective ! They must have a good reason for colonialism as well.
 
There isn't a long history of Hindu-Muslim Riots before the british. When there are differences in idelogies there will be differences in social affairs as well, but that difference was exploited by the brits.
 
How can you forecast what Hitler  would have done given 200 years as the brits got? When your own freedom was under threat, then you came up with all the justification of fighting Hitler. It was hard for the brits to deviate from those after the war.
 
It wasn't only Hndu muslims division the brits have created; differences of class, culture, corruption,.... in fact all kinds of immoral activities have been forced onto this society or people were lured into it. Which has brocken the social & moral base of this society. It's getting better but it cannot be rectified in a day, it's so deep rooted.
 
Of course We have got to blame our selves as well for not recovering fast enough; But we must remember that the people who had been in power / position for last 50 years or so, were educated during the british time and have learnt the corrupted ways of doing things; you can't expect them to start doing something so different overnight. Even the money which were coming through the western controilled financial entities, were attached with strings and encouraged corruption, didn't allow major policy shifts by the governments. Now, you can see the difference when India is much less dependant on such string attached money, how they are utilizing their resources and developing rapidly on their own policies. Un fortunately pakistan or other break away countries don't yet have the luxury of reducing their dependancy from the foreign money (WB, ADB etc).
 
Yes, we have to take the responsiblity and share blames, but all social scientists know, how difficult it is to come out of such widespread & deliberate moral corruption, while you are still dpendant on string attached money for survival.
 
Definitely the things are changing with new generations, education & economic development of the region. And it will change, the people will have to make the changes. Brits will not do it. But my whole hearted hatred for the brits who indulged into promoting such corrupt practices in almost all of it's non white colonies, specially in india. That legacy the colonial brits will always have to bear with, for the rest of their life, even if the people of the subcontinent becomes an economic superpower much greater than the brits some day & all religions live in harmony.
 
Indians going to britain isn't a favor by UK to them, UK encourages it as it is giving them a considerable income. ............ ... It's already too long and don't like to make it longer.
 


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"Al-Quran-The only Straight path to success. Alhamdulillah"


Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 06 November 2009 at 10:51pm
'It's lready too long and don't like to make it longer.'

Then don't, brother.



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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set


Posted By: nu001
Date Posted: 06 November 2009 at 11:03pm
I didn't sister :)
 
One of the positives (For the Jews) of Holocaust is the formation of Israeli state. That doesn't justify holocaust; just like colonialism can't be justified by looking for positives; at what cost you got it is more important, as the cost was far far greater than those petty positives. It's like looking for positives in a rape.


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"Al-Quran-The only Straight path to success. Alhamdulillah"


Posted By: fais
Date Posted: 07 November 2009 at 12:03am

Salam,

Martha its not a good reply,plz reply politely,someone has taken time to reply your post so express your view or just say u accept it,no need to feel offended.

Regards



Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 07 November 2009 at 8:13am
Lol, Brother Martha here:)
Salams all,
When people stop ranting and raving then I will reply nicely. Brother Fais you know me well enough by now.

I have never justified colonialism..let me make that quite clear.

The Brits got 200years as you say. Bear in mind that they did not have modern technology etc etc. Travel took months, sometimes years. So the length of time is rather immaterial. I believe trade was as necessary to the BRits as it was to India back then. I think stuff got way out of hand..the Brits do answer for that in todays world, but I am not convinced they went to these places full of hatred but rather to help. Like I say, it got out of hand and opinions clouded.

Ok. Who controls the world right now? Who holds the purse strings? The US, right? The British now are as much in the palm of the US government as the rest of the world. You say we have a choice. Do we? We are under dogs, we owe trillions to the US. OF course we have to do as we are told. Am I complaining? Not at all. In a hundred years time the US will get the blame for current atrocities. History has this terrible knack of repeating itself.

Now to WW2.
When Germany was defeated in the Great War,the European Powers created The Treaty of Versailles. THis was signed in 1919 by them and Germany. This was to try to prevent another GReat War(1914-18).It also imposed harsh restrictions on defeated Germany one of which meant Germany lost control of Belgium, Poland and Czechoslovakia.
When Hitler came to power he broke that agreement by marching into Poland on Sept 1st 1939. Britain and France were obliged to stand by the Treaty of Versailles and defend Poland and so declared war on Germany on 3rd Sept 1939. So the Brits were not under threat from Hitler at the start of the war.

It might be a good idea to investigate the cause for WW1 as this undoubtedly had lasting affects. The assassination of Franz Ferdinand on 28th June 1914 is seen to be the main reason. The secret serbian organisation The Black Hand were guilty of that event.

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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set


Posted By: afghani
Date Posted: 12 November 2009 at 7:21pm

I agree with some people here. It is not suicide bombing when you kill so many innocent civilians with them. I have an advice for Suicide-losers. They should just kill themselves and leave the rest of us innocent civilians alive.

I have strong distaste toward Suicide losers partly because I am Afghani and I personally know people whose family members were killed by suicide-losers.



Posted By: afghani
Date Posted: 12 November 2009 at 7:32pm
Guys, please see my post in the "General" section about Fort Hood. So you guys can know more about me if you want.


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 16 November 2009 at 12:15pm
Originally posted by afghani


I personally know people whose family members were killed by suicide-losers.

This topic is sensative i agree but there is another side to you thinking of people dying they are called martyrs and they get Jannah.The thing is we all want Jannah but nobody wants to die. What are we holding on to in this life? nothing, these so called losers are our brothers not the American soldiers I'll tell you what is suicide declaring war with an ememy who is more powerfull than you and not having Allah on your side.That is suicide.


Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 16 November 2009 at 3:15pm
I see no difference between Major Malik Nidal Hasan shooting innocent people( yeah in this instance US soldiers   were innocent as they were not fighting) and random acts of suicide bombings. It is WRONG!

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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set


Posted By: fais
Date Posted: 16 November 2009 at 9:00pm

salam,

yes it is wrong to kill your own brothers,but if someone kills the enemy that is justified, that ok no matter they fought the war or not they chose to be with thewicked people,they chose the ideology of the wicked arm forces.

regards
 


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 16 November 2009 at 9:55pm
Originally posted by martha

I see no difference between Major Malik Nidal Hasan shooting innocent people( yeah in this instance US soldiers   were innocent as they were not fighting) and random acts of suicide bombings. It is WRONG!
Salams,May Allah Forgive them.Allah Knows.I know how it affects me now and im not Afghani or pro U.S/or pro U.S troops killing Muslims or Muslims killing Muslims or killing of inocent people.It is said in AHadith that they will get Jannah if they innocent, if they die in battle. Alhamduillah!


Posted By: nu001
Date Posted: 17 November 2009 at 1:12am
Originally posted by martha

I see no difference between Major Malik Nidal Hasan shooting innocent people( yeah in this instance US soldiers   were innocent as they were not fighting) and random acts of suicide bombings. It is WRONG!
 
I see some difference. He was treacherous. He shouldn't have joined the us Army, who will today and tomorrow keep killing muslims/will keep fighting islam. He wasn't fighting against them. Be broke the trust/oath.
 
On the other hand, if he originally planned to infiltrate in US Army and weaken them/Sabotage, as the intelligence machines of US/Israel do; then he might have a logic for his action.


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"Al-Quran-The only Straight path to success. Alhamdulillah"


Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 17 November 2009 at 3:21am
Originally posted by fais

salam,


yes it is wrong to kill your own brothers,but if someone kills the enemy that is justified, that ok no matter they fought the war or not they chose to be with thewicked people,they chose the ideology of the wicked arm forces.


regards

 


walaikum asalaam,

But who is the enemy? Non-Christians because they don't follow Islam? That isn't a justifed reason in Islam.


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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set


Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 17 November 2009 at 3:26am
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah

Originally posted by martha

I see no difference between Major Malik Nidal Hasan shooting innocent people( yeah in this instance US soldiers   were innocent as they were not fighting) and random acts of suicide bombings. It is WRONG!
Salams,May Allah Forgive them.Allah Knows.I know how it affects me now and im not Afghani or pro U.S/or pro U.S troops killing Muslims or Muslims killing Muslims or killing of inocent people.It is said in AHadith that they will get Jannah if they innocent, if they die in battle. Alhamduillah!


Salams,
Do you mean the innocent that die as a result of war? And those that fight and die in battle?

Lol, let's all run riot then! We are ALL saved regardless! (BUt only if you are muslim?)

BUt perhaps this is not what you meant bro. Not sure.

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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set


Posted By: fais
Date Posted: 17 November 2009 at 5:15am
salam,
 
I never said nonmuslims are the enemy,i said the arm forces who are anytime ready to kill muslims,just waiting for the orders to go on a kill.so this is the result of their own chioce,if those individual bombers had power of a huge army they would have done the same thing defeat allied forces they dont have power so they doing it individually.  


Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 17 November 2009 at 5:41am
ok brother,
So muslim soldiers can be the enemy then if they are ready to kill other muslims? Unless they are not in the armed forces which would make them suicide bombers? Which is why I previously asked the question of is it likely that in the future we will have an army of muslims fighting for the sake of ISlam which we will then argue is justifiable and lawful .
I'm tired, lol. I need a rest. I will come back later. Salams
 
 


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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 17 November 2009 at 10:59am
Originally posted by fais

salam,
 

I never said nonmuslims are the enemy,i said the arm forces who are anytime ready to kill muslims,just waiting for the orders to go on a kill.so this is the result of their own chioce,if those individual bombers had power of a huge army they would have done the same thing defeat allied forces they dont have power so they doing it individually.  
Wa Alaikum As Salam brother Fais,Sense the topic is about so-called suicide bombers and not non-muslim being the enemies.I completely understand your point I was trying to say the same.May Allah Bless you


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 17 November 2009 at 11:02am
Salams,WASHINGTON – Soldier suicides this year are almost sure to top last year's, but a recent decline in the pace of such deaths could mean the Army is making progress in stemming them, officials said Tuesday.

Army Vice Chief of Staff General Peter Chiarelli said that as of Monday, 140 active duty soldiers are believed to have died of self-inflicted wounds. That's the same as were confirmed for all of 2008.

"We are almost certainly going to end the year higher than last year — this is horrible, and I do not want to downplay the significance of these numbers in any way," he said.

But Chiarelli said there has been a tapering off in recent months from huge numbers of January and February.

"I do believe we are finally beginning to see progress being made," Chiarelli told a Pentagon press conference.

He attributed that to some unprecedented efforts the Army has been trying to work with soldiers through new programs.

Using some U.S. bases as examples of the trend downward, Chiarelli said there were 18 suicides reported this year at Fort Campbell in Kentucky — and that 11 of those were in the first four months of the year.

At Schofield Barracks in Hawaii, there were seven all year so far — five in the first five months of the year and only two since.

The Army widened suicide prevention in March in an attempt to make rapid improvements in its programs and policies. Army efforts to curb suicides also were increased Oct. 1 with the beginning of the so-called Comprehensive Soldier Fitness program, which aims to put the same emphasis on mental and emotion strength as the military traditionally has on physical strength. Basic training now includes anti-stress programs as part of a broader effort to help soldiers deal with the aftereffects of combat and prevent suicides.

Still, another jump in suicide figures for 2009 would make it the fifth straight year that such deaths have set a record as troops continue to come under the stress of two overseas wars. It compares with 140 in 2008, 115 in 2007 and 102 in 2006.

The numbers kept by the service branches don't show the whole picture of war-related suicides because they don't include deaths after people have left the military. The Department of Veterans Affairs tracks those numbers and says there were 144 suicides among the nearly 500,000 service members who left the military from 2002-2005 after fighting in at least one of the wars.

The true incidence of suicide among military veterans is not known, according to a report last year by the Congressional Research Service. Based on numbers from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the VA estimates that 18 veterans a day — or 6,500 a year — take their lives, but that number includes vets from all previous wars.



Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 17 November 2009 at 11:05am
Salams, look they are killing themselves.Army Vice Chief of Staff General Peter Chiarelli said that as of Monday, 140 active duty soldiers are believed to have died of self-inflicted wounds. That's the same as were confirmed for all of 2008.



Posted By: fais
Date Posted: 17 November 2009 at 9:04pm
thanks brother,
thnaks for accepting my point.
regards



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