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19th question about islam

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Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Islam for non-Muslims
Forum Discription: Non-Muslims can ask questions about Islam, discussion for the purpose of learning.
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12440
Printed Date: 22 October 2014 at 8:30am


Topic: 19th question about islam
Posted By: Tariq
Subject: 19th question about islam
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 6:01am

19. VAST DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ISLAM AND THE
ACTUAL PRACTICE OF MUSLIMS
Question:

If Islam is the best religion, why are many of the Muslims dishonest, unreliable,
and involved in activities such as cheating, bribing, dealing in drugs, etc.?

Answer:

1. Media maligns Islam
a. Islam is without doubt the best religion but the media is in the hands of the
westerners who are afraid of Islam. The media is continuously broadcasting
and printing information against Islam. They either provide misinformation
about Islam, misquote Islam or project a point out of proportion, if any.
47

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b. When any bomb blasts take place anywhere, the first people to be accused
without proof are invariably the Muslims. This appears as headlines in the
news. Later, when they find that non-Muslims were responsible, it appears
as an insignificant news’ item.
c. If a 50 year old Muslim marries a 15 year old girl after taking her permission, it
appears on the front page but when a 50 year old non-Muslim rapes a 6 year
old girl, it may appear in the news in the inside pages as ‘Newsbriefs’. Everyday
in America on an average 2,713 cases of rape take place but it doesn’t appear
in the news, since it has become a way of life for the Americans.
2. Black sheep in every community:
I am aware that there are some Muslims who are dishonest, unreliable, who
cheat, etc. but the media projects this as though only Muslims are involved in
such activities. There are black sheep in every community. I know Muslims who
are alcoholics and who can drink most of the non-Muslims under the table.

3. Muslims best as a whole:
Inspite of all the black sheep in the Muslim community, Muslims taken on the
whole, yet form the best community in the world. We are the biggest community
of tee-totallers as a whole, i.e. those who don’t imbibe alcohol. Collectively, we
are a community which gives the maximum charity in the world. There is no
community as a whole in the world which can show even a candle to the
Muslims where modesty is concerned; where sobriety is concerned; where
human values and ethics are concerned.

4. Don’t judge a car by its driver:
If you want to judge how good is the latest model of the “Mercedes” car and a
person who does not know how to drive sits at the steering wheel and bangs up
the car, who will you blame? The car or the driver? But naturally, the driver. To
analyze how good the car is, a person should not look at the driver but see the
ability and features of the car. How fast is it, what is its average fuel
consumption, what are the safety measures, etc. Even if I agree for the sake of
argument that the Muslims are bad, we can’t judge Islam by its followers? If you
want to judge how good Islam is then judge it according to its authentic sources,

i.e. the Glorious Qur’an and the Sahih Hadith.
5. Judge Islam by its best follower i.e. Prophet Mohammed (pbuh):
If you practically want to check how good a car is put an expert driver behind the
steering wheel. Similarly the best and the most exemplary follower of Islam by
whom you can check how good Islam is, is the last and final messenger of God,
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Besides Muslims, there are several honest and
unbiased non-Muslim historians who have acclaimed that prophet Muhammad
was the best human being. According to Michael H. Hart who wrote the book,
‘The Hundred Most Influential Men in History’, the topmost position, i.e. the
number one position goes to the beloved prophet of Islam, Muhammad (pbuh).
There are several such examples of non-Muslims paying great tributes to the
prophet, like Thomas Carlyle, La-Martine, etc.




Replies:
Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 6:37pm
All men are sinners and fall short of the righteousness of GOD.

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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: Tariq
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 9:41am
All men are sinners and fall short of the righteousness of GOD.
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

IT MEANS WE SHOULD BECOME LIKE HITLER IS THAT WAHT YOU MEAN OR LIKE CHENGEZ KHAN BECAUSE LIKE YOU SAID WE ARE NOW ANGELS WALKING WITHOUT ANY JUDGEMENT BECAUSE ONE OF THE PROPHET HAS SACRIFICED FOR THE HUMANITY AND NOW EVERONE HAS THE RIGHT TO DO ANYTHING

AFTERALL BIBLE IS FULL OF ETHICS AND MORALES AND RITUALS AND PROHIBITATION FROM BAD DEEDS HOW DO YOU SOLVE THAT



Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 15 May 2008 at 6:26am

Jesus is not a get out of hell free pass.  After you perform your good deeds the salvation of Jesus erases the remaining debt.  None of us on our own would ever be able to undo our bad deeds on our own.

I don't think Hitler even thought of the after life or tried to do good deeds working towards being with GOD.
 
If GOD pardons osama bin laden because he turned to Christ and asks forgiveness then I must accept that GOD is just.


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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: Saladin
Date Posted: 16 May 2008 at 2:25am
If GOD pardons osama bin laden because he turned to Christ and asks forgiveness then I must accept that GOD is just.
 
Isnt God only enough for pardon?


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'Trust everyone but not the devil in them'


Posted By: Tariq
Date Posted: 16 May 2008 at 4:17pm

Is there a single verse in bible in  injeel new testement that jesus Peace be upon him said i am going to sacrifice for the sins of humanity, which is logically cant be proved because by this all the teachings of bible will go in vain.

Second did he said i must remain in hell for four days as the christanity believes about him.

Third did he said after believing in my salvation or sacrifice do good deeds so then you get pass out of the hell,

If so why good deeds when he has sacrificed for the sins of humanity.

Fifth why does GOD according to christian belief put his son in hell fire when he is so loving.  Does any father does like that. ANd you mentioned this verse from bible

John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life



Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 17 May 2008 at 3:33pm

Tariq have you ever read the Bible?  Why is this font so big!!!

Luke 18

Jesus Again Predicts His Death

 31Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, "We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. 32He will be handed over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him, spit on him, flog him and kill him. 33On the third day he will rise again."


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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 17 May 2008 at 5:20pm
Originally posted by believer

All men are sinners and fall short of the righteousness of GOD.
 
 
believer,
you are stuck with someone else's catchy pharses that do not work most of the time. This is just one example. Read this:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=1&chapter=6&verse=9&version=31&context=verse - Genesis 6:9
This is the account of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked with God.


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39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 20 May 2008 at 6:23am
yes, blamelss up to that time, but not perfectly sinless-
 
20 Noah, a man of the soil, proceeded to plant a vineyard. 21 When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent. 22 Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father's nakedness and told his two brothers outside. 23 But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it across their shoulders; then they walked in backward and covered their father's nakedness. Their faces were turned the other way so that they would not see their father's nakedness.


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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 21 May 2008 at 3:12pm
believer,
you were talking of 'righteousness' when you said: "All men are sinners and fall short of the righteousness of GOD." and not sinlessness.
I agree that probably none can be sinless, but many can be righteous. And it is righteous to whom God has promised forgiveness and Salvation.
The quote says that Noah was righteous.
And according to the following quotes righteous will be the ones that God will reward the heaven to, that is in contrast to the Christian rhetoric that God needs a sacrifice for us to achieve salvation.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=23&chapter=34&verse=19&version=31&context=verse - Psalm 34:19
A righteous man may have many troubles, but the LORD delivers him from them all.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=13&verse=43&version=31&context=verse - Matthew 13:43
Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
So the righteous will be successful in the hereafter even according to what's left of the previous scriptures, and the Quran confirms it.
3:15..."For the righteous are Gardens in nearness to their Lord, with rivers flowing beneath; therein is their eternal home; with companions pure, and the good pleasure of God."
Hasan


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39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 29 May 2008 at 6:30am
There is still that debt to be paid to even the scales. 
 
It may not be that GOD demands egual scales of justice but that is just the nature of GOD.  GOD's brillance of morality and what is good and right.
 
We can not look GOD in the face, His pure goodness.
 
Sorry, I can't seem to explain this idea any better. 


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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 29 May 2008 at 12:52pm
believer,
I don't think the matter is as confusing as you seem. Its much simpler.
Let me recap and make it further simple:
You claimed that "All men are sinners and fall short of the righteousness of GOD."
I agree all men may be sinners, but men can be righteous. I quoted your Bible to prove my point: Genesis 6:9 "Noah was a righteous man"
Then you said, "righteous but not sinless" (thus needing Jesus' sacrifice for salvation)
I showed in reponse that to the righteous God will show His Mercy and forgive their mistakes toward salvation. (no sacrifice or ransom needed, remmeber God has power over everything, if He says "I forgive", is there anything or anyone that can challange that?
And I quoted these verses from your book:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=23&chapter=34&verse=19&version=31&context=verse - Psalm 34:19
A righteous man may have many troubles, but the LORD delivers him from them all.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=13&verse=43&version=31&context=verse - Matthew 13:43
Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
 
If there is still any confusion, let me know and I will explain further,
Hasan


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39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 10 June 2008 at 12:18pm

No confusion here.  Maybe this will help you.

"reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work."

John 3

8He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work.

 

Luke 19

 

10For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost."

 

Hebrews 2

 

 14Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— 15and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.

 
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=23&chapter=34&verse=19&version=31&context=verse - Psalm 34:19  does not necessarily deal with the after life- more of this life.


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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 11 June 2008 at 6:30am
 Believer, your above quotes need not be challenged as wrong. But they are not useful because they are not related to the issue at hand. It is shown to you that a righteous man will shine and is saved by the Grace of God. Also, if one is called righteous then he is free from sin. A sinful man will not be called righteous by God Almighty. How can a man be righteous and sinful at the same time?

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If any one is bad some one must suffer


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 11 June 2008 at 3:31pm
Maybe not at the exact same time but though out the time of a person's life one who is righteous could also at another time be sinful.
 
You must carefully read the Bible:
 
"blameless among the people of his time"
 
Noah is righteous compared to the people of his time- he is not being compared to the righteousness of Jesus.
 
Genesis 6
 
  9 This is the account of Noah.
      Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked with God.
 
GOD always chooses the least of evils to carry out His plan.


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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 11 June 2008 at 5:32pm
believer,
if you just pay attention to your words, you will find them to be inconsistant. You said: "reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work."
 
If its true what you have just said, then it seems like that it was not achieved, was it?
 
Hasan


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39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 12 June 2008 at 7:34pm

Yes it was achieved because I will be in heaven with GOD through Jesus.



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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 19 June 2008 at 3:12pm
believer,
I would not have to repeat many things to you if you don't look the other way:
"reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work."
devil's work still continues in this world and will be so until the End. The presence of devil and devil's work in contrast to this verse proofs that its a incorrect statement and wrongly associated with Jesus (Pbuh).
 
Hasan


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39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 26 June 2008 at 3:47pm
The Law which we must follow [to not do the devils work] was fulfilled by Jesus.
 

What did Jesus come to do?

http://www.carm.org/doctrine/Jesuscame.htm - http://www.carm.org/doctrine/Jesuscame.htm


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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 26 June 2008 at 6:47pm
believer,
you may see it that way, but the claim that "Jesus came to destroy devil's work" says it all without any further explaination or support words.
 
What we see as devil's work everywhere after Jesus (pbuh) proves that this statment is not so, its not correct.
 
However, it is fine to say that he came to equip his followers with faith to defeat the devil's desires and works. The same job that was given to all of the prophets of God.  Devil or Satan still is active and his work still visible to us, thus this statment is a misquote associated to Jesus, and according to the Quran, Satan and his work will be there until the Day of Judgement, when Satan will be burning along with those who fall in his trap of going on the wrong path or disbelief.
 
Hasan


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39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"



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