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Sudan

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Regional
Forum Name: Africa
Forum Discription: Africa
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1115
Printed Date: 23 July 2014 at 7:39pm


Topic: Sudan
Posted By: Jamal
Subject: Sudan
Date Posted: 06 June 2005 at 8:18am

Asalamu Alaikum,

I am an African American. I converted to islam about 2 years ago. During this time my studies have shown me that islam is supposed to be a religion of peace. There is supposed to be no difference as to who is better than another except in ones deeds. So why can anyone explain why the crisis in sudan with ethnic arab muslims killing and raping africans in the southern region. Yes I know that it is a predominately christian and animist area but african muslims have also been murdered. I understand war on political reasons and in self defense but does that justify the raping of african women to make their children lighter. The systematic murder of a peoples (people of the book) and animist because they believe in something different. Is not Allah subhanna wa ta ahla the judge of man and not us. Someone please explain what is going on in this region without referencing to israel or the palestineans. I want a real and honest explanation about the situation in sudan and why the arabs there think that it is okay to murder hundreds of thousands of africans.




Replies:
Posted By: Jamal
Date Posted: 08 June 2005 at 6:47pm

Asalamu Alaikum,

I must wonder why 24 people have viewed this post but not one has attempted to answer my question. I have not made this post out of some political or racial bias but out of a concern for my own faith. Someone please help me because although I am muslim, I have questioning my position on religion because of my impression that I am starting to believe that arabs do feel superior to blacks regardless to wether or not they are muslim or not. If this is the case then I can no longer remain a muslim although I am not sure as to what I believe will be a better religion because I don't believe their is one at this point. Although there must be one that doesn't propogate one race over another and all men are truly equal. If I am wrong then someone please answer me and tell me what is going on in the arab mind in sudan and how can they commit such atrocities, or I will be forced to renounce islam, on the account I cannot be apart of a reliogion were it members can kill my people simply because they have a darker complexion or they believe something different then I. 



Posted By: MOCKBA
Date Posted: 08 June 2005 at 8:16pm

Wa'alaikumu Salaam,

Brother Jamal, you seem to be putting much emphasis on racial differences where it is completely unnecessary. When it comes to race  - Islam is colorblind. In his final sermon the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) has clearly stated:

"...All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over a white - except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood...."

Just because some arabs are ignorant enough to think they are superior to non-arabs, or because there are blacks assuming most non-blacks feeling superior to them, we don't go and denounce the existence of God and the Prophetic teachings by rejecting Islaam.

To better understand the situation in Darfour you have to travel to Darfour and spend some time there. Unfortunately, I am not in the position to answer your question as I have not had a chance to visit the area, yet. Switching channels with a bag of popcorn in hand and "downloading" world updates is not always the best way to gather facts. Although i would also very much appreciate if someone knowledgeable could shed some light on the actual situation there.

The bottomline is that Islam detests any notion of racial, ethnic or any other physical superiority of one over the other. I am Muslim, Alhamdulillah. "My people", my brothers and sisters, are of all complexions, provided that they submit to Allah and follow His Final Messenger - Muhammad (peace be upon him). And if someone feels him/herself superior or inferior on the basis of his physique and tries to fragment Ummah on a color basis - it is because of ignorance of Allah, and that is a major sin.



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MOCKBA


Posted By: kim!
Date Posted: 08 June 2005 at 9:15pm

Jamal, don't dump your religion because of someone else or because you don't understand something straight away. Sometimes I didn't understand maths back at school, but I kept trying and even tually became a maths teacher, because I loved maths so much. Things are often more worth understanding if you have to work at them.

Culture and upbringing and all sorts of influences cause people to do good and bad things. The situation in Sudan is probably extremely complex. I'm guessing people here haven't answered your questions because they don't understand it themselves, so they don't want to give you some bogus answer.

The world needs to do much more about the problems in Sudan. We have Sudanese families here in Australia and some of the stories they tell are terrible. Girls getting raped over there, then being beaten and jailed for adultery, especially if they get pregnant. At age 16, these girls have been attacked and now feel they can never marry or have families because they have been "soiled".

Kim...



Posted By: Jamal
Date Posted: 09 June 2005 at 11:28am

I want to thank Allah for brothers and sisters like you (assuming I correctly gender id your names). Nevertheless you are correct and I would have been in grave error to give up my faith because of other people. I still have some issues with the situation in Sudan but I must be wise and not let anyone, politics or any other material thing to come between myself and Allah. Thanks for reminding me of the straight path.



Posted By: Knowledge01
Date Posted: 12 June 2005 at 12:19am

As Salaam Alaikum brotha Jamal,

I want to tell you that the title "African American" should not be used, specially by you (an AFRICAN).  Any person ,whether in the U.S., Europe, or Africa, is an AFRICAN.  Because that's where we're from.  The only reason we are scattered across the world is because of slavery and the Europeans greed.

This simple lesson comes from Pan Africanism.  I hope you know what that is.  If not, look it up and read some books by El Hajj Malik El Shabazz (Malcolm X), Marcus Garvey, and Kwame Nkrumah.

I hope you remember this short lesson and put it into use.



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Posted By: ZamanH
Date Posted: 13 June 2005 at 11:24pm

As Salaam Alaikum,

I am not an Arab, still, I don't feel any repulsion towards the Arabs just because of what the Arab militiamen did to the Africans in Darfur. Muslims, in general, don't discriminte on the basis of race/skin color. Some of them do, but they are only exceptions. They are as much a exception amongst the Muslims, as a girl who does not loses her virginity before marriage, is amongst the women in WEstern society. You normally don't notice the all-pervasive air, but whenever there is a little smoke it always catches your attention. Historically, Muslims have always given equal status to those who have converted to Islam. For example, 2 dozen Grand Viziers (that is similar the post of Prime Minister) of the Ottoman empire were Albanians. That is the reason, Muslims in Egypt, Turkey, Persia and India identify themselves more with the Islamic civilisation than with the pre-islamic civilization that existed before the advent of Islam in their countries. I am an Indian, still, I associate myself more with Muslims foreigners than with Indian non-Muslims. Arabs have provided considerable employment to the Indian Muslims while they face discrimination while searching for job in their own country. Also, Arab help was immense in the Tsunami relief of Muslims in South East Asia.



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An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet


Posted By: ZamanH
Date Posted: 13 June 2005 at 11:44pm
Also, I don't think that Muslims who kill other Muslims are a threat to all of the Muslims becuase they don't kill others simply because they (their victims) are Muslims (and that is unlike the reason as to why American, Israelis, Russians, Filipinos etc. kill Muslims).

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An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet


Posted By: Jamal
Date Posted: 14 June 2005 at 2:51pm

I disagree that they are not a threat to all muslims because they are those who twist the faith to justify the killing of other muslims which is as I read my Quran wrong. I do agree that they are not as bad as the infidels who kill muslims for the sake of killing muslims because the muslims who kill muslims do have a belief, or in their mind a justified reason for their acts.That is why I just wanted clarifaction on the stance of the mindset of Arabs in Islam in regard to blacks.



Posted By: Dinka
Date Posted: 26 July 2005 at 6:55am

Knowledge,

I am Dinka, originally from southern Sudan. I have seen many friends and family killed by muslim regime,some, for the simple reason they did not convert to Islam. I am not saying that is real islam, but that is how it is practiced there. You seem to blaim all slavery on Europeans, but Arab muslims have been the biggest slavers throughout east Africa. I grew up in sudan, the only people to show kindness to our people were catholic sudanese, and italian priests,(I am not Catholic) who have been killed along with us standing up to muslim fanatics. I know europeans did much evil to african people, but never think the arabs and muslims are innocent in this. If you are proud to be African, than dont be Christian or Muslim, these are both Semitic, foreign religions, your original African brothers and sisters practice animist beliefs as I do. You should read about John Garang, and even former nba player Manute Bol, as to what Muslims have done to his country. He cannot even return to Sudan.



Posted By: Dinka
Date Posted: 26 July 2005 at 7:11am

 

There is evil and good in all groups of people, but everyone wants to unite to hate a common enemy. That common enemy should be hate  and ignorance, cause that is what kills. We had slavery in africa, tribe to tribe, than white man came (arab and European) and fellow africans sold their own slaves to the whites. The descendents of American blacks were originally the slaves of the ruling africans. Of coarse, Your misled sheep like malcolm X bought the lies, that islam is the true religion for africans, afterall they treated this celebrity so well at Hajj. Let me tell you what Arab colonialism created- black sudanese, somalis, ethiopians, cxalling themselves arabs because they were made to hate there blackness, just as your europeans duped american blacks into believing. Well anyway, history will be the final judge, lets sit back and look at all the peace Islam has brought into the world.



Posted By: Azzam
Date Posted: 10 September 2005 at 8:16am
Mr. Dinka, you make me laugh. Your idol Garang is burning now in hell, because he is getting punished for killing hundreds of thousands of Muslims.
To the sceptical rest: Believe me, Sudan has problems en masse, but it is not by far so bad like you hear in the media. You should come and visit us.


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Allahu Akbar!


Posted By: usama
Date Posted: 07 October 2005 at 6:57am

It is easy to sling accusations back and forth. And indeed, Muslims have been responsible for many crimes and atrocities in Africa and Sudan.  Yet, Muslim and nonMuslim miss the ultimate reality: that Islam is the solution for mankind, not just as a religion, but as a political system that offers guidance for man's affairs in this life.

Africa is plagued with numerous chronic, geo-political problems which continue to exacerbate the struggle of simply daily life.  Sudan is a prime of example of this. Africa is carved up into nations which are incompatible or inconsistent with the authority of the governments empowered over them.  All across Africa are nations with borders drawn in the dirt.  In reality, foreign powers drew those lines.  In reality, the people of the regions are forced to accept what the foreign powers have designed for them. As well, generations of ruthless rulers have been supported by those foreign powers to maintain those nations. That is the postcolonial era.

Sudan is representative of this problem. The Southern Sudanese, as a minority, have resisted the majority since the inception of Sudan. Their resistance has been incited and supported by foreign powers and even neighboring nations who seek to benefit from the strife and weakness of their neighbors.  Similarly in Iraq, the Kurds represent a minority to the majority Arab (Sunni and Shia). but America has incited and supported Kurdish rebellion and resistance to the Iraqi central govt.  But in reality: a Kurdish state carved out of Iraq would be a weak and unwelcomed nation by its neighbors, rendering it in need of foreign protection, namely American protection. 

An autonomous southern Sudan would also be a weak nation: landlocked and surrounded by more established nations. It would need the protection of a foreign power, namely America. 

The same would apply to a future autonomous Darfur region with its oil resources.  It too would require a foreign supporter: America.

This is the history of so many nations.

The reality remains the same as long as Africa accepts nation states as their mechanism of governance, identity, leadership.

 



Posted By: usama
Date Posted: 07 October 2005 at 7:15am

Islam offers a new reality:

*that the resources of a state belong to all people. Muslim or nonMuslim, and the state only manages it for them.

*that mentality and identity is based one's individual choice rather than the fate of which they were born into.

*that rather than men full of prejudice and ignorance being empowered to make laws over them, the legislator and sovereign of a people is their Creator while they only have to work to administer and govern thereby.

*that commerce and trade and travel is open to all who live therein and the borders are not drawn by foreign powers but by the will of the people.

Africa does not have a unifying ideology.  America was unified by the will of its people. The borders of America were defined by the will of the people. Africa has no unifying will.  And as much as modern African politicans talk of a unified African Union like in Europe's EU, the reality remains that modern Africa is still the product of foreign will, not its people's will. Moreover, foreign powers continue to exert their will on the people of Africa throughout in so many ways, including clandestine military operations.  

Dinka, I hope you realize at least some of this. That foreigners have been infiltrating and manipulating the affairs in Africa for centuries. g Islam offers distinct from secularism, animism, democracy, etc, a bond that potentially can bind all the people of AFrica with people from around the world including with the East Asians, Europeans, Americans, Arabs, Latinos free of superiority or dominance of one over another.



Posted By: Abeer23
Date Posted: 07 October 2005 at 10:03am

Dinka, just want to make a correction here.  Ethiopians do not call themselves arabs.  You may find a few tribes mixed with Arab but that doesn't make everyone Arab.   Believe it or not, Ethiopians are proud of their heritage.

 



Posted By: Tayyibmusawwir
Date Posted: 23 April 2006 at 6:25am
As Salammu Alaikum my name tayyib i'm african american muself whats up my brotha Jamal far has darfur is consurn we need to fight kill Janjaweeds to save brothers sisters childin  makes me sick da they called demselfs muslims murderin other black muslims but ain't supizein cause arabs hate our behinds Jamal know what i'm sayin partna so somein has be done aight peace


Posted By: mariyah
Date Posted: 08 May 2006 at 8:33pm
Originally posted by Knowledge01

As Salaam Alaikum brotha Jamal,

I want to tell you that the title "African American" should not be used, specially by you (an AFRICAN).  Any person ,whether in the U.S., Europe, or Africa, is an AFRICAN.  Because that's where we're from.  The only reason we are scattered across the world is because of slavery and the Europeans greed.

This simple lesson comes from Pan Africanism.  I hope you know what that is.  If not, look it up and read some books by El Hajj Malik El Shabazz (Malcolm X), Marcus Garvey, and Kwame Nkrumah.

I hope you remember this short lesson and put it into use.

My dear friend,

I have friends that are from the continent of Africa that will tell you that even their own countrymen sold others into slavery and that the statement that European greed alone scattered Africans around the world is a gross misstatement.

African American IS appropriate if the person chooses to use it. It denotes a person whose culture is american and whose heritage is from the continent of Africa.

It is time as Muslims to put this emphasis on racial or cultural differences behind, that is what the prophet (pbuh) suggested in his last sermon. perpetuating differences and reminding ourselves of the injustices done to our ancestors does not good, look at the situation in Sudan and Darfur! I understand your need to know your heritage, my mother is a Turkish Kurd who married an American to escape the slaughter in her non-existent homeland! After my father died, Jazak'allah she reverted to the Islam of her childhood and now as a senior hijabi is my closest friend as well as my mother!



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"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.


Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 09 May 2006 at 3:44am

Assalamu Alaikum!

Found a good article on Darfur, and thought to share it.

Peace

Darfur - A complicated conflict
5/9/2006 - Political - Article Ref: IV0605-2990
Number of comments:
Opinion Summary: http://iviews.com/comments/action.lasso.asp?-db=services&-lay=comments&-format=search.asp&-sortfield=Ref&-sortorder=Descending&-error=error.asp&-op=eq&SubjectID=IV0605-2990&-op=eq&PublishFlag=X&-op=eq&rating=F&-token=Agree&-max=10&-find - Agree :   http://iviews.com/comments/action.lasso.asp?-db=services&-lay=comments&-format=search.asp&-sortfield=Ref&-sortorder=Descending&-error=error.asp&-op=eq&SubjectID=IV0605-2990&-op=eq&PublishFlag=X&-op=eq&rating=A&-token=Disagree&-max=10&-find - Disagree :   http://iviews.com/comments/action.lasso.asp?-db=services&-lay=comments&-format=search.asp&-sortfield=Ref&-sortorder=Descending&-error=error.asp&-op=eq&SubjectID=IV0605-2990&-op=eq&PublishFlag=X&-op=eq&rating=I&-token=Neutral&-max=10&-find - Neutral :
By: James Zogby
Iviews* -


Last week, I was invited to speak at the Save Darfur mobilization in Washington, DC. The decision to accept was both easy and complicated.

Easy, because how could any person of conscience ignore the need to speak out in defense of the victims of the horrible conflict that has been raging in the western part of Sudan? The stories of widespread rape, the slaughter of innocents, the deaths of hundreds of thousands and the dislocation of families make Darfur one of the great tragedies of this new century.

It is a fact that a number Evangelical Christian organizations who had been engaged in controversial missionary/conversion efforts in Darfur were involved, as were some Jewish groups who had a history of using Sudan as an issue to drive a wedge between Arabs and Africans.

But two factors made my decision a complicated one. One was related to the complications inherent in the conflict itself. The other, had to do with the make up of the US-based movement that is supporting Darfur.

There are, to be quite blunt about it, no "good guys" in the Darfur conflict. Elements on all sides of this madness have committed atrocities. What has been done cannot be explained away as "defense" or "mistakes" as the parties would have it. 

To make matters worse, there are divisions within the ranks of the various factions that add even greater complexity to the picture. And then there is the ever-present and growing danger represented by the involvement of Sudan and its neighbor Chad both in Darfur and in each other's internal affairs.

A further complication was presented by the fact that at the very same time is this mobilization was occurring, the government of Sudan and the major rebel groups were involved in African Union (AU) sponsored negotiations in Abuja, Nigeria. In fact, the date of the Washington rally coincided with the deadline the AU had given the parties to complete their talks and sign a peace agreement. There were some who raised concern that the rally itself might lead some parties to stiffen their opposition to signing the agreement.

It was important that Arab Americans make clear our deep concern with the humanitarian crisis in Darfur. Our presence in this multi-ethnic multi-religious coalition sends this message.

And then there were questions raised by the composition of the coalition itself and the views of some of the speakers who were to participate in the Washington mobilization. It is a fact that a number Evangelical Christian organizations who had been engaged in controversial missionary/conversion efforts in Darfur were involved, as were some Jewish groups who had a history of using Sudan as an issue to drive a wedge between Arabs and Africans.

Some of the rhetoric in the US about Darfur has been shaped by these groups and their perspectives. In some articles, the conflict is presented as an "Arab-led genocide against black Africans," others have either mistakenly or deliberately conflated their oversimplified view of the Southern Sudan-Khartoum conflict with Darfur and have, therefore, portrayed Darfur as if it were an "Muslim assault on Christian and animist Africans!"

With no other Arab speaker on the program, I understood what might be interpreted either by my absence or my presence at the rally. After consultations with several Arab friends and a number of experts on African affairs, I resolved to participate.

It was important that Arab Americans make clear our deep concern with the humanitarian crisis in Darfur. Our presence in this multi-ethnic multi-religious coalition sends this message.

I closed by urging the participants to make universal their commitment to fighting injustice, terror and war, by expanding their vision to include not only Darfur but Iraq, and Israel / Palestine as well.

And while we may have had questions about even of the groups involved in the Save Darfur effort, the coalition included significant respected US and international organizations as well. The International Crisis Group, the US Conference of Catholic Bishops, Amnesty International, the AFL-CIO/Solidarity Center and a number of US Muslim groups had signed on as sponsors. My presence, I hoped, would give voice to our concern and help provide some balance in the day's discussions.

I focused my remarks on two central points: support for the peace talks in Abuja, urging the parties to accept the AU mediation efforts; and recognition of the growing consensus at the United Nations, shared by many members of the African Union and Arab League that more must be done to secure the peace in Darfur, protect the innocent, return the displaced, punish those who have committed war crimes and provide more humanitarian assistance to those in need-but recognition, as well, that this consensus had to be acted upon.

I noted that we should commit ourselves to take no side in this conflict, but the side of peace with justice and the protection of innocents.

I closed by urging the participants to make universal their commitment to fighting injustice, terror and war, by expanding their vision to include not only Darfur but Iraq, and Israel/Palestine as well.

It is hoped that the Abuja process will bear fruit, but, even with an agreement, there are enormous challenges ahead. If the mobilization accomplished anything at all, it is that silence, passivity, or concern without action are not enough. Too many lives have been lost and too many are still at risk.

Dr. James J. Zogby is the President of http://www.aaiusa.org/ - Arab American Institute and can be reached at mailto:jzogby@aaiusa.org - jzogby@aaiusa.org

http://www.iviews.com/Articles/articles.asp?ref=IV0605-2990 - http://www.iviews.com/Articles/articles.asp?ref=IV0605-2990


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Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 21 May 2006 at 1:22pm

Salaam,

I haven't posted much here unfortunately and that is my fault because I missed this subject. For the most part I agree with those people who have said these types of racist attitudes goes on all over the globe and that knowing these realities shouldn't drive you out of Islam although it is hurtful. Adding to that statement let me say to any non-African or non-African American here who has not experienced a direct form of racism to not give their opinion on how African-Americans should feel about racism. Not only do you not know but understand the history behind such an emotion.

Jamaal I understand how you feel and to some extent I feel the same frustration as you do. I have been discriminated against by so-called Muslims who were Arabs. I've been called an abid or slave in Arabic. I've had Pakistaninan people curse me because of whatever reason. I've had them during Jummah after the Khutba in prayer get out of the line because my foot touched theirs. I've had other Muslims reject me for an apartment cause of my color-BTW how I know is the Arab family who applied after me got the exact same apartment I applied for. My credit was excellent since me being a cop you need good credit in law enforcement.

I also feel that the conflict in Palestine in the media sense is culturally motivated because since its an Arab conflict it takes away from a centuries old problem in Africa which occured long before the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. So yes I understand where you are coming from. I know the cop-out comments people made here when they tell you "Islam forbades" racism. This is obviously common sense since it is not only in the prophet's last sermon but in the Qur'an but I also feel people use these comments in the sense of the message "there is no prevelant racism in the Muslim community" when racism exist in the community.

I've discussed this several times over in many threads and to no avail people still don't understand only us "black folks" in the sense of the word. However in knowing what I said here brother you should never leave Islam knowing these realities. God has and always will be with you in the events of your frsutration. God is with the suffering in Darfur. Brother one thing you must understand that is that suffering occurs all over the world not to just Africans or even the African-Americans in the United States. Everyone in every country is suffering and unfortunately as human beings we cause this.

Forget about the Ummah for a second and look at the human species. We are then most intelligent and the most ignorant of God's creation. We can create civilizations yet create means to destroy them by creating missiles or judging a person because of their skin tone. This kind of behavior makes me sick to my stomach. That is why I find tranquility in the "lesser beings" because even with their lack of intelligence they act in accordance to their necessity not to their selfishness.

Pigeons for example I see them all the time in all shapes and different colors. They all eat together and perch on the same wire together. I even seen a bird with one leg yet still found interaction with others regardless. With humans we look down on the abnormal treat others because of their skin tone and move away from something outside the realm of normality. We as a species have become horrible in how we treat each other and when I read about the incidents going on in Darfur I do get angry because I feel even in Islam "blacks have been put in the backburner" however I don't lose hope.

Following the spiritual message of Islam is perhaps the greatest thing a true Muslim can do.

BTW There is nothing wrong with calling yourself African-American after all it means: Someone of African descent who orignates in America. Such as someones Ancestors who originate in Africa yet have children in America. The childrens origins would reside in America but their lineage is from Africa.....Common sense people!



Posted By: Mishmish
Date Posted: 21 May 2006 at 3:26pm

Assalamu Alaikum:

While the genocide in Darfur is often quoted as Arab against black, the truth is that the Janjaweed are black. They are of Arab heritage, but they are black Muslims the same as their victims.



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It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)


Posted By: salman
Date Posted: 22 May 2006 at 7:39am
Originally posted by Mishmish

While the genocide in Darfur is often quoted as Arab against black, the truth is that the Janjaweed are black. They are of Arab heritage, but they are black Muslims the same as their victims.

wether a muslim is a white or black, he is a muslim. there should be no discrimination among muslims on the basis of colour. hajj is a perfect example of how muslims of different countries and colours unite together without any discrimination.



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It is better to be alone than to be in bad company.


Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 22 May 2006 at 10:42am

Asslamu Alaikum!

Brother Salman: "wether a muslim is a white or black, he is a muslim. there should be no discrimination among muslims on the basis of colour. hajj is a perfect example of how muslims of different countries and colours unite together without any discrimination."

True. But, here we are talking about ongoing genocide as black against black where one group has Arab heritage. Of course, no Arab has superiority over non-Arab and no non-Arab has superiority over Arab as Prophet ( SAW ) told us in his last sermon. Can we truly achieve it? It looks like we have a long way to go.

Peace



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Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 22 May 2006 at 8:49pm
I highly doubt that...Number one we have not seen them in  person and number two i can post several articles in which many of the African women have reported that the Janjaweed are in fact Arabs. I doubt that there is a direct similarity in feature of an Arab and African although their mingling are not uncommon.


Posted By: Mishmish
Date Posted: 22 May 2006 at 9:10pm

Assalamu Alaikum:

You can see photos of the Janjaweed all over the internet...



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It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 24 May 2006 at 8:51am

Wa Salaam

I saw the photos and I still don't see this as a black on black incident as thise author notes the distinction here:

Who Are the Janjaweed?

A guide to the Sudanese militiamen.

By Brendan I. Koerner
Updated Tuesday, July 19, 2005, at 3:50 PM ET

Much of the violence in Sudan, which has created over 1 million refugees, has been attributed to militias known as the Janjaweed. Who are the Janjaweed?

The word, an Arabic colloquialism, means "a man with a gun on a horse." Janjaweed militiamen are primarily members of nomadic "Arab" tribes who've long been at odds with Darfur's settled "African" farmers, who are darker-skinned. (The labels Arab and African are rather misleading, given the complexity of the region's ethnic history. For simplicity's sake, Explainer will stick with these inelegant terms.) Until 2003, the conflicts were mostly over Darfur's scarce water and land resources—desertification has been a serious problem, so grazing areas and wells are at a premium. In fact, the term "Janjaweed" has for years been synonymous with bandit, as these horse- or camel-borne fighters were known to swoop in on non-Arab farms to steal cattle.

The Janjaweed started to become much more aggressive in 2003, after two non-Arab groups, the Sudan Liberation Army and the Justice and Equality Movement, took up arms against the Sudanese government, alleging mistreatment by the Arab regime in Khartoum. In response to the uprising, the Janjaweed militias began pillaging towns and villages inhabited by members of the African tribes from which the rebel armies draw their strength—the Zaghawa, Masalit, and Fur tribes. (This conflict is entirely separate from the 22-year-old civil war that has pitted the Muslim government against Christian and animist rebels in the country's southern region. The Janjaweed, who inhabit western Sudan, have nothing to do with that war.)  Here is the reference Sister Mishmish http://www.slate.com/id/2104210/ - http://www.slate.com/id/2104210/

Also if you want more proof here is another article:

I interviewed refugees spread over hundreds of miles in eastern Chad. One woman, Hadiya Adam Ahmed, had crossed into Chad only two days before and was living under a tree near the remote border town of Bahai. Spread around her were her few remaining possessions: a blanket, some water jugs, a few bowls. She had left home without food and in two weeks of travel had depended on her fellow refugees for occasional handfuls of soaked sorghum for herself and her nine children. Hadiya had two bullet wounds in her right leg. She said she had been shot by a Sudanese soldier when she and a 17-year-old girl went to draw water from a well for themselves and others who were fleeing.

When asked why their villages were attacked and burned, most of the refugees said it was because of their black skin. They believe that the Khartoum-based government of President Omar Hassan Bashir wants to give their land to his Janjaweed allies who, like him, are Arab. Members of the Zaghawa, Masalit, Fur and other black African tribes will simply have to go. Like the Janjaweed, the Darfurians are Muslims. But culturally and ethnically they retain an African identity, of which they are proud. They also tend to be more settled than the nomadic Janjaweed. Racism undoubtedly does play a part in Bashir's support of the Janjaweed, as the blacks are seen as inferior here is your reference:http://www.ushmm.org/conscience/alert/darfur/stari ng_genocide_in_the_face/main.php?print=y

Sister the following is an excerpt by an Arab Scholar who notes the strained relations between black African and Arab please read the following as well as the response, its quite long so please take time in reading it:

Tuesday, July 19, 2005

Arab Racism against Black Africans

In a response to charges of Arab racist attitudes towards Africans and their causes posted on the Professor Toyin Falola-moderated USA/Africa dialogue list, Professor Iliya Harik, a Lebanese who is Professor Emeritus of Political Science at Indiana University, posted the following response, which I have edited for length and relevance without distorting its essence or context:


“I wish I could reassure everyone on the USA/Africa Dialogue forum that there are no racists in Arab countries any more than in any other part of the world. In general, antipathies in the Arab world tend to be cultural more than racial and I can say that racism is less in evidence there than in other countries of the world. I cannot agree….. that Arabs are anti-African on a
racial basis. They are not anti-African on any basis. For one thing, the largest ethnic component of the Arab world is African. Egypt, which is the most populous Arab country, is mixed of different races with a noticeably black African strain. I never noticed any markedly racial awareness or sense of difference associated with color there. The Sudan and Chad are mostly Arabic speaking, yet they are totally black African. Forget about what you hear and read in the media here that Arabs are killing Africans in Darfur. The people in Khartoum are no
less black African than those in Darfur, as many of you well know. It is just that the government in Khartoum is oppressive in a way that affects all the population, but is mostly felt now in an ugly way in Darfur because the Darfurians dared stand up and speak.”…. Let me add that the populations of Libya, Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco are predominantly Arabic-speaking Berber, an African race. You will find that there is a mixture of eastern Arabs and black Africans too. Besides, Arabs and sub-Saharan Africans have since independence been together in the Non-Aligned Movement (that was once dominated by Tito, Nkrumah, Sukarno, Toure, Nasser, Keita and others) and its derivations.”

Professor Iliya Harik's piece is a commendable and bold attempt by an Arab scholar to openly discuss the sensitive issue of Africa-Arab relations. There is need for an open, unfettered dialogue between Africans and Arabs on the fractured state of relations between the two peoples.

Professor Harik's write-up is however trapped in the language of denial and obfuscation that has become a key defining feature of Arab responses to charges of racism against blacks. His response sounds eerily familiar; I have heard many such feeble defenses of Arab racism against blacks--defenses which merely deracialize the racism and/or emphasize the African roots of North African Arabs. One would normally excuse such defensive posturing were it not for its diversionary implications for understanding the history of Afro-Arab relations--a history which preceded Africa's relations with the West.

Professor Harik's rendering of the crisis in Darfur is offensive to blacks in that it is not only an intolerable simplification and trivialization of a racist genocide being systematically carried out by the Arabized government in Khartoum but also an inexplicable attempt to dilute the fact that race, even if it is mediated by culture, is at the heart of the crisis in Darfur.

Harik claims that Arabs are not "anti-African on any basis." But this is a straw man. You’ll be hard pressed to find black Africans who would make such a sweeping characterization. The allegation, which Harik does not directly respond to, is that there is a disturbing pattern of anti-African racism in many Arab countries, and that this attitude translates to a widespread Arab indifference to African struggles and sensibilities at a time when black African leaders like Mbeki and Obasanjo are bending over backwards to accommodate and protect the interests of Arab North African nations. Many people, in the interest of Afro-Arab political alliances and in order not to alienate our North African brothers, do not want this issue discussed publicly. But it should. This is why Harik must be commended for making his post, as disappointing as its contents are.

It is true that the population of most North African countries is mixed, but it is not a secret that in these countries there is a gradation of human valuation that corresponds directly to skin color, with the most privileged status being accorded those perceived rightly or wrongly as being of "pure" Arab stock while those with the darkest skin and curliest hair are located on the lowest rung of the social hierarchy.

In fact, Arab racism is deeply embedded in the history of North Africa itself and in the Arabic language. The Arab conquest of North Africa and the subsequent conversion and marginalization of the original Berbers and Moors of North Africa and parts of the Sahel were undergirded by a racist ethos. Till this day, the descendants of the dark-skinned Moors, the Berbers, and other non-Arab peoples are confined to the fringes of North African and North-west African society--in Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria, Mauritania, etc. The plight of the descendants of blacks (some of whose inhabitation of the Maghrib predated the Arab conquest of the 9th century and others who came to North Africa as slaves, captives, and free migrants) is worse than that of the Berbers. In Morocco, Tunisia, and throughout much of the Arab world, the only ticket to social visibility for blacks is soccer. Becoming a soccer star gives a black person access to coveted corridors of society and enables them to "marry up", racially speaking. This is a sad commentary on the state of race relations in any society. So, while Harik is right that a uniquely complex racial taxonomy is at work in much of the Arab world, this reality hardly detracts from the presence of an unspoken, normalized, and stealthily institutionalized racism which casts black people as the dregs of society who must prove themselves worthy of social recognition and privileges.

Arab racism is so deep it is inscribed in the fundamental semantic structure of the Arabic language. Till this day, the generic word or for a black person is the preface "abd," which translates as "slave," as in "Abd"-allah (slave or servant of God). This linguistic norm, among many other racially-charged ones, is an expressive constant which holds true for the entire Arab-speaking world regardless of dialect and orthography.

The case of the Sudan is perhaps the most vivid, poignant, and irrefutable example of Arab racism against black Africans. Let it be noted that until the Janjaweed and their racist and murderous Sudanese government backers gave a bad name to the art of hating, marginalizing, and murdering blacks, Arabs never quite saw the raiding of black villages for slaves and cattle, especially in Southern and Western Sudan, as a crime. The racism which propels these practices was increasingly authorized (and rationalized) by the discourse of the distinction, within Islam, between dar-al Islam (the abode of Islam) and dar-al-harb (the abode of war and unbelief). For many Arabs, the historical description of blacks as slaves and servile presences in the Arab world is hard to unlearn. Descriptive categories etched in received grand-narratives and myths can only be dismantled through a self-conscious (and self-critical) denunciation of prejudices constructed in a historical time and place as a function of power.

Arabs still generally regard the Darfur genocide as a public relations disaster rather than as a barbaric racist war against black people. We have yet to hear unequivocal condemnation of the Sudanese government's racist practices from Arab states. To do that would be hypocritical because some of these states themselves condone the racist practices of mavericks or practice anti-black racism in their own official policies. For instance, black African immigrants are routinely killed, maimed, and their houses and properties destroyed in Ghadaffi's Libya--- the same Ghadaffi who wants to be the leader of a politically united African super-state. Africans have become jaded about Ghadaffi's feeble condemnations of anti-black riots in his country and the ad-hoc and sterile apologies he offers after each tragic episode.

Professor Harik is only half right about the Arab-speaking Northern Sudanese. They are a dark-skinned people, although most of them are of mixed Arab and African ancestry. But these folks, by virtue of the aggressive Arab penetration of the Sudan (from the 13th century), a politically-implicated process of strategic intermarriages, and the adoption of the Arabic language and many aspects of Arab and Bedoiun culture, no longer perceive themselves as blacks, or African in any functional way. Indeed, they have long become Arabized. So deep is this new sense of the Northern Sudanese self that the region’s meta-narrative of origin and social evolution bears the imprint of an Arab antiquity more than it does that of African origins. This is the construction of racial and social memory par excellence. While Harik and I, as historically conscious people, may recognize them only as cultural and linguistic Arabs, the Northern Sudanese people and their ideologues and rulers have since, for good or ill, racialized their identity and their distinction from the people of Darfur (Western Sudan).

It is not for me to say if it is wrong or right to conflate Arabization with Arab racial consciousness, which is what the Northern Sudanese people seem to have done. What I do know is that in both its practical expression and its tragic consequences, the attitude of the Arabized Northern Sudanese people and their government towards Darfur is racist, and that the racist script unfolding in that part of Africa is sustained by an undying adherence to historical claims of Arab superiority over black Africans.

So, to conclude, I would say that Africa-Arab political solidarity and alliances have survived not because of the absence of Arab racism towards black Africans--as Harik seems to suggest--but in spite of its painful existence. Nkrumah, Toure, Mbeki, Obasanjo, and other black African leaders were/are aware of this racism but are/were motivated by avowedly higher ideals and goals in their interaction with North Africa and the entire Arab world. This pursuit of South-South alliance and solidarity has cost Africa dearly in human and material terms. Sub-Saharan Africa has acquiesced in the lubrication of this relationship with the blood of black Africans, the latest of such sacrifices being Darfur, where Sub-Saharan African leaders have, to the disgust of their countrymen, refrained from outright condemnation of the Darfur debacle as a racist genocide directed at black Africans. The crucial question is: what price has the Arab world paid and what sacrifices and concessions has it made in the service of this alliance? My personal opinion is that we are approaching a tipping point as Arab disrespect for black Africans and their interests heightens. The emotional blackmail of accusing black Africans of racism against Arab North Africa, which is often subtly deployed by our North African AU members to obscure the racist treatment of blacks in the Arab world, is no longer tenable.

Beyond the domain of group relations, there is a preponderance of individual anecdotal evidence to support the notion of a pattern of Arab racist attitudes towards blacks. A Nigerian friend of mine (a Muslim) who now lives in London was appalled at the racist treatment that he and other black Africans received when he traveled to Egypt a few years ago. The irony is that he was in Egypt as part of the Nigerian contingent to an “African” trade fair hosted by Egypt.

So instead of arguing that the populations of the Sudan and North Africans have remote African ancestry, which we all know they do, we should ask why and how people who are, by their own (convenient?) admission, of mixed stock and who themselves are victims of white racism, could become so socialized into an Arab racial consciousness as to begin to perceive blacks as their inferiors.

 

 

 



Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 24 May 2006 at 8:54am

Wa Salaam

According my serveral sources I've refuted any attempt here to trivialize the situation and people here noting it as "black on black genocide." As the author above has noted their hisorical difference and cultural difference this is not the case. This is, as I have thought it to be before an African-Arab incident carried out by the Sudanese government whom is composed of Arabs so please guys spare me the excuses I've refuted any claims here otherwise and if you need more references I will be more than happy to show you guys!



Posted By: Mishmish
Date Posted: 24 May 2006 at 11:42am
Originally posted by Israfil

Wa Salaam

According my serveral sources I've refuted any attempt here to trivialize the situation and people here noting it as "black on black genocide." As the author above has noted their hisorical difference and cultural difference this is not the case. This is, as I have thought it to be before an African-Arab incident carried out by the Sudanese government whom is composed of Arabs so please guys spare me the excuses I've refuted any claims here otherwise and if you need more references I will be more than happy to show you guys!

Walaikum Assalaam:

I have never tried to trivialize this situation. I was posting information on the genocide here when no-one else was.

But I see it as people killing people, as all genocides ultimately are, an evil that must be stopped. Not as a soap box to go off on why the Arabs hate black Africans.

I also see the Palestinian situation as a slow genocide.

I also view what happened in the DR Congo as genocide. The Congo was actually the first genocide of this century. Not as interesting to talk about I guess as there were no murdering Arabs involved.

Of course, we could talk about Somalia, where the secular war lords are fighting, with back from the U.S., and killing the Muslim government. The next possible genocide, but no Arabs....



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It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 24 May 2006 at 12:34pm
I'm not saying that this is an "why Arab hate black issue" I was merely commenting on what  YOU said. As the subject head appropriately states I was commenting on what it entails not to go off and speak upon issues not relating to it. The reality of this situation here is, this is what it is. It's called genocide but I call it ethnic cleansing....


Posted By: Escobar
Date Posted: 09 July 2006 at 11:59pm

hmmm i dont know...

these so called arab millitia mean dont look black to me!!!

i think its alot of manipulation by the media as to the cause of the Darfur Crisis....

Firstly the region of Darfur is REVOLTED against the government of Sudan...not to justify whats happened there...

 

but anyway muslims should be smart...i dont think its arab Vs Blacks...

 

none the less something needs to be done!!!



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Posted By: Abeer23
Date Posted: 11 July 2006 at 1:12am
Originally posted by Escobar

hmmm i dont know...

these so called arab millitia mean dont look black to me!!!

They're black trust me

none the less something needs to be done!!!

I agree! 



Posted By: usama
Date Posted: 17 July 2006 at 7:20pm

Asalaam alaikum

The nature of the identities of the victims and perpetrators is less relevant than the solution and the method of its application.  The concept of genocide emerges from a distinctly Western international legal concept. This should not suggest that the solution should follow. 

Historically, people have grouped and formed societies based on families and tribes which modernized into nations.  One can add that within this, race has been identified and tied to these particular groupings.  Does it matter than people of different tribes see someone of a particular racial composition and attack him, or rape her, killing them, taking their belongings?   The act of attacking, raping, killing, usurping is what matters.  



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Let there arise from amongst you a group inviting to all that is good, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and they are the successful ones. Al Imran:104



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