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Did Khomeini promote child abuse?

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Islam for non-Muslims
Forum Discription: Non-Muslims can ask questions about Islam, discussion for the purpose of learning.
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10485
Printed Date: 20 September 2014 at 11:16am


Topic: Did Khomeini promote child abuse?
Posted By: Rezz
Subject: Did Khomeini promote child abuse?
Date Posted: 10 October 2007 at 1:53am

I recently had a conversation with an ex-Muslim Iranian who was discussing Islam and paedophilia. I was particularly concerned about his claims regarding the practice of ‘thighing’ and an alleged Fatwa by the Ayatollah Khomeini.

I found this on Wikipedia. (I know this is not 100% reliable)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_children

Khomeini's view

"A man can marry a girl younger than nine years of age, even if the girl is still a baby being breastfed. A man, however is prohibited from having intercourse with a girl younger than nine, while other sexual acts such as foreplay, rubbing, and kissing are allowed. A man having intercourse with a girl younger than nine years of age has not committed a crime, but only an infraction, if the girl is not permanently damaged. If the girl, however, is permanently damaged, the man must provide for her all her life. But this girl will not count as one of the man's four permanent wives. He also is not permitted to marry the girl's sister." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_children#_note-26" title=" - - [35]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khomeini" title="Khomeini - "Thighing is a means for an adult male to enjoy a young girl who is still in the age of weaning; meaning to place his penis between her thighs, and to kiss her." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_children#_note-28" title=" - I can’t believe this is true. Is it?

I’d particularly appreciate any input from Shia Muslims on this Forum.



Replies:
Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 10 October 2007 at 2:58am
I have no idea but not sure it is Islamic... more knowledgeable people then I would know..

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When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi


Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 10 October 2007 at 7:20am
Originally posted by Hayfa

I have no idea but not sure it is Islamic... more knowledgeable people then I would know..


I think its common sense, konami follows shia Islam, different from the main stream.

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Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 10 October 2007 at 7:35pm
Khomeini does not represent orthodox Islamic views.  The Shia account for less than 10% of the Islamic world.  It is interesting that he says that a man can marry a baby which is being breastfed, and yet the Prophet (pbuh) said that a marriage can only be performed between two consenting individuals.  Furthermore, the girl to be wed must have the choice in choosing the man she wants to marry.  She cannot be forced.  How can a baby which is still being breastfed consent to a marriage?  How can her consent be confirmed?  The answer is that she cannot.  Therefore, Khomeini's claims stand refuted.  Muslims follow Allah (swt) and His Messenger, not Ayatollah Khomeini. 


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Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)



Posted By: Rezz
Date Posted: 11 October 2007 at 5:15am
Originally posted by islamispeace

Khomeini does not represent orthodox Islamic views.  The Shia account for less than 10% of the Islamic world.  It is interesting that he says that a man can marry a baby which is being breastfed, and yet the Prophet (pbuh) said that a marriage can only be performed between two consenting individuals.  Furthermore, the girl to be wed must have the choice in choosing the man she wants to marry.  She cannot be forced.  How can a baby which is still being breastfed consent to a marriage?  How can her consent be confirmed?  The answer is that she cannot.  Therefore, Khomeini's claims stand refuted.  Muslims follow Allah (swt) and His Messenger, not Ayatollah Khomeini. 


Thank you islamispeace. I’d like to assure you that I did not believe for one moment that such practices were sanctioned by mainstream Islamic view.

I was mainly interested to know if anyone had information about whether the quote attributed to Khomeini was genuine. Or was it a malicious lie to discredit him?

Has anyone here heard of this quote before?




Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 11 October 2007 at 7:21am
Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem

If it bothers you so much why dont you go to wiki and edit it, im certain someone else will change what you wrote soon after that and so and so on, thus is the nature of wiki the idiots encyclopedia.


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Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.


Posted By: sulooni
Date Posted: 13 October 2007 at 9:34pm
http://www.insight-info.com/forum - ayatollah khomeini never promoted child abuse. but to judge based on his belief in shia islam is bias. and shows that all who answered "probably" he believed in unorthodox islam were not hardly aware of what he believed.

sometimes it's better to read from his own words his own views. then to judge. allah is the best of judges. none of us.



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Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 14 October 2007 at 11:08am
Brother/Sister Sulooni,

Instead of making statements with the intention of promoting your website (congratulations by the way!), can you actually demonstrate that Khomeini never said such a thing.  This is what Rezz asked, and so far no one has proved the statements to be false.  I have not studied Khomeini's teachings, so I cannot comment.  What I did make clear was that if Khomeini did say such things, he is easily refuted by orthodox Islamic views. 


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Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)



Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 14 October 2007 at 7:56pm
Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem

In islam the obligation is upon the accuser to prove his case, Under islamic law calumny and slander are punishable....the case of Abu bakrah comes to mind.


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Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.


Posted By: Angela
Date Posted: 15 October 2007 at 7:34am

I never trust wikipedia.  It can be edited for anyone.  Recently the CIA and other government organizations had to admit that they regularly edit their own articles to remove less than desireable content.  Its why the Palestine/Israel articles get locked down regularly.

What you would have to do is find the actual fatwa from an Iranian governmental or official religious website.  Otherwise, its just something somebody made up.



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Posted By: sulooni
Date Posted: 16 October 2007 at 10:55am
http://www.insight-info.com/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=9&TopicID=2295&PagePosition=1&ThreadPage=1 - i have read his catechism and many of his books. there are many people who are anti-revolutionary iranians and they oppose the islamic republic and prefer the u.s. puppet government of the Shah - some of them are even cia opperatives and infomants. their main goal is to make the islamic republic of iran seem bad by any means necessary.

here is a link on the life of this scholar and revolutionary leader:
http://www.insight-info.com/forum/display_topic_threads.asp? ForumID=9&TopicID=2295&PagePosition=1&ThreadPage =1


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Posted By: on1on5
Date Posted: 16 October 2007 at 11:53am

several points to state:

the source of the information is not safe

as a Muslim I dont believe that a Muslim leader can put such a statement

if it is true-I don't think it is however- then I dont believe in the leadership of that person who -I dont know how -derived - if not put forward from his own mind-such an unbelievable idea from the basic source of Islam the Quran and from the Hadith of our prophet.

So please dont get mixed up with these things, you may encounter many of them during your hard journey, they may simulate the stingy bushes put on the way of the prophet while he is turning home  but please push them away.

I have an objection for the definitions orthodox an unorthodox. These phrases exported from Christianity are not suitable for Islam. There is only one Allah and one Islam so we shall ask ourselves if we are to drop into the trap of devil while we are classifying the religion as this and that and dividing the believers into two. Whatever is wrong according to Islam is wrong- no matter an Iranian or a Palestinian or a Turk says this. And whatever is right is right. We already have many difficulties as Muslims so let us please be careful while regarding and referring to ourselves, since we have to be together against many problems the Muslim world.

Thank you all for your sensibility. Allah knows best.



Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 16 October 2007 at 3:44pm
If Khomeini never said such a thing, then perhaps someone should change that article on wikipedia...  Brother Rami is right, wikipedia is the "idiot's encyclopedia".  

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Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)



Posted By: sulooni
Date Posted: 16 October 2007 at 7:50pm
http://www.insight-info.com/forum/ - wikipedia is a zionist / jewish run organization and i have experienced it many times - if you put an article about something islamic on that website, it will most likely get deleted or edited to the point where you don't have any idea what you wrote. the best thing to do is to seek knowledge fromt he cradle to the  grave and read.

unorthodox / orthodox is a derivative of christian theology; and these labels have been used to depict islam, but it is not true, especially as in arabic these terms are not used.
these are terms coined by the enemies of islam in a effort to "divide and conquer" because many muslims for various reasons seem to often fall into these traps.
remember that islam is "la ilaha ilalah, muhammada rasullulah". and a muslim is one who believes and bear witnesses to this.  

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Posted By: Angela
Date Posted: 17 October 2007 at 8:18am

Wow, is everyone a zionist/jewish organization to you...

I'm a zionist...however I believe Zion will be built in the New World, not the old.

You're really starting to come off paranoid.  Just an observation.

Wikipedia can be edited by anyone.  So if someones deleting your posts...find out why.  I've seen them lock down the Palestine article to prevent it from being defaced. If you have an issue with a statement, edit it.  Just make sure you cite your sources.

And do you always have to link your entire post to your site????



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Posted By: sulooni
Date Posted: 17 October 2007 at 10:10pm
http://www.insight-info.com - here's some homework for you:

1-research the owners of wikipedia, send them an email asking about their political views.

2-understand what zionism means clearly. and what they are supporting

3-paronia is a relative term...research why

4-yes i like to link the post to my site. u won't be allowed to join unless u finish ur homework

later.


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