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 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Politics : World Politics
Message Icon Topic: An open letter to ’the world"(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
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herjihad
 
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bullet Posted: 11 August 2007 at 12:37pm

Salaamu Alaykum,

Cassandra, Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Brother Andalus, Thank you for your astute, incisvie analysis!

Brother Israfil,  The fact that you say that some of IAvatar's ideas interest you or have merit in any way states volumes about your true attitude towards the Phalasteeneeyeen.

I am considered an Phalasteeneeyeah, and this would make perfect sense to anyone who has Arabic heritage, because my husband's family is from there.  Indeed, my dear father-in-law asks me to answer "Jamayeen" when people ask me where I am from.  That is Jamayeen, Phalasteen.

To borrow Brother Andalus'es word, it is obfuscation for anyone to say that unless you live there, you don't understand it.  This is especially true since the Zionists drove my people out of Phalasteen, so that most Phalasteenee can't say that they have lived on their own land in their own country!

Salaamu Alaykum

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Israfil
 
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bullet Posted: 11 August 2007 at 1:38pm

Herjihad,

In all seriousness your attitude is really starting to piss me off. First off where did I say Israeli Avatar's points "interest me?" If you look back I freggin said:

Avatar made some good points but as I read further his points became flawed through his reaosning as brother Andalus pointed out.

If you cared to give a damn i aslo said:

Israeli Avatar really has no legit argument coming from a personal point of view.

So where in the last TWO post that I made here did I say I am interested in his points?

To the other members I apologize but I'm sick and tired of people getting on the soap box and reading my posts with emotion instead of logic. The fact that you overlooked what I said speaks volumes. If I say that someone makes a "good" point doesn't necessarily mean I agree with them. They simply made a good point. When someone makes a "good" point but ends up being flawed its called (in philosophical terms) a logical fallacy.



Edited by Israfil
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bullet Posted: 11 August 2007 at 2:03pm

O, I would love for one of you to try to get specific in your criticisms.

Your words are obviously the most genuine, that is exactly why you protest the idea of Islam being a violent religion with violence, and treat your women like filthy dogs. 

"What is the subliminal message this woman is sending? The subliminal message is that every square inch of my body is private part, every square inch of it can make you horny. Therefore my entire body is an 'awrat, (lit. pudendum, genital) and I am a sex object from head to toe. People cover their private parts. This woman thinks her entire body is private part. Does this in anyway arouse respect? Only one who thinks with her genital may think so."

 

 

And look at the way you treat your children:

http://www.

How exactly is the aforesaid incorrect? All of your invective is extermely malicious, you speak of "logical fallacies," yet you lack SPECFIC cricticisms with scholarly sources. And Andalus has never proven me wrong, he has just danced around the facts, and has taken it upon himself to cry "Jewish conspiracy" or "Zionist propoganda," as if we all have a specific meeting place where we decide all of these facts, as many of you and your confounded brethren spipulate so vehemently, and fervently. I have never seen any of you combat my words with any scholarly sources or veracious reasoning. It is depressing to see all of you like this, infected with this diasease.

Note from Moderation:do not link to anti-Islamic sites which are polemical in nature. abide by the forum guidlines. This is a warning (officially) 



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Israfil
 
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bullet Posted: 11 August 2007 at 2:55pm

Israeli Avatar,

Sorry to tell you, those pictures do not represent Islam. They represent the practices of the Shiite sect. There are many women in Islam that treat their children with love and would not inflict wounds on them. To be honest the faithfreedom website is more like a slap in the face to intellectual discussion. Pointing out specific cultural practices in certain sectarian groups does not necessaitate that everyone in the religion does that. There are Christia n parents who send their children to "Jesus Camp" to pray to a paper cut out of George W. Bush. It's not psychologically healthy to send your kids to a camp to "speak tongues" at age 5. Similarly we know its unhealthy for Jews to drink and have extra-martial affairs. Of course all these individuals do these things but we must refrain from ascribing the actions of individuals with the general population.

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bullet Posted: 11 August 2007 at 4:08pm

I agree, that's all you had to do. I appreciate points being cleared up. But since when were Shiites not considered Muslim? And what about the honor killings, and the executions done by Sunnis against Shiites, and so-called apostates? What about the mass executions that occur in the middle east by the hands of Muslims against other muslims over religious issues?

What about the protests that were done by Palestinians and other Muslims all over the middle-east, protesting the charecterization of Mohammed in a violent manner with violence, and obvious belligrent behaviors? Why does it seem that your civilization is stuck in the past? And even when I think of the past of your civilization, the middle ages for example, one can clearly see that your people were more open-minded and eccelctic back then. What about the Israeli soildiers that have been torn asunder by Palestinians with bare hands, and Jewish children that were chopped into little peices after being raped? I understand that these people believe in reciprocity, but why kill children in such atrocious ways, and why mutilate soildiers? Why don't you just execute them by hanging or something like that if you believe them to be evil and yourselves to be good? I understand that there are victims on both sides, but I do not believe that it is a coincidence or the "fault of the west" that almost every Islamic nation is a place replete with fear, violence, murder, terrorism, oppresion, propoganda, and extreme anti-semitism. Maybe these things exist elsewhere, but not to such a high degree as you would see in Afganistan or Iran, even without the Americans and the Russians.

Many people say that the Palestinians were living in prosperity before Jewish rule, but I have seen Turkish prisons, and have read many accounts of life before the State of Israel, and I would not consider this a paradise or a land of prosperity. The Islamic world has a high rate of poverty, a lack of education, and a serious problem with violence. This is not recent, this process started in the middle ages when Islam threw logic out the window. It seems that Islam appeals to emotions rather than the mind.

Any criticism is met with hostility and brutality to the point where people are labeled insane and uninteligent for having antithetical perspectives. It is as if the Islamic civilization has turned into a horde of inquisitors. I know that there is a group of you that are human beings, and I embrace this group with my heart. It is difficult to see all of this violence and anger coming from the middle east, and to conclude that all of this is the product of poverty and western corruption. Osama Bin Laden was a member of the Saudi royal house, and the very rich, in Muslim countries seem, as if they are more dangerous and more angry than the poor. This intertwined with the fact that many of these people were involved,financially speaking, with western nations, makes me all the more angrier. These people abhor and condemn the same nations that provide them income while starving their own people and blaming it on the west. It is appaling, to think that they call fourth for Jihad, yet how many of their children are fighting these wars with their bare hands? And how many children of regular people are dying every day because these oligarchs want to fill their pockets with treasure? It seems that spirituality for many Muslims is a situational phenonmenon that is only advantageous if it is politically, personally, or financially rewarding.

I understand that the world is not devoid of such things, and I never said that it is not, there are also Jewish extermists, I was one of them at one point or another. All of this drama, in the modern era, is coming from the middle east. It is as if you are trying to restore your former glory and knock down these skyscrapers to "even out the playing feild," where your people thereafter, being the "midgets" that they are, can finnally be on an equal level with the former giants that dominated the sky; it seems as if this is intension. No matter how many conscessions that we seem to make it is never enough. A Muslim leader was quoted as saying "that the world will be liberated from the Jews to the point where every tree will be free from them." What is that you all really want? Do you want us to be Muslim? To be like you? To convert to your religion and be as miserable as you? Because we are not like you, we cannot worship God in the manner that you worship God. I have no problem with your people or religion, just do not shove it in my face, and blame every Jew for what happened in 1948 or in Medina with Mohammed. You tell me not to generalize, why not tell your brethren the same things when they enunciate blanket statements against the Jews, or the west? This is utter hyporcisy, if you want me to be civil and open-minded, I expect the same of your brothers.

All that I have heard from the begining were anti-Semetic remarks, catalyzed and conditioned by propogandistic "verities" in their countries of origin, and a whole bunch of hypocricy. I do not disagree with all the criticisms, it is the propoganda, and hypocrisy that drives me to the beaking point. Any so-called fact that was heard through the "grape vine," was a product of biased literature, or something your brothers just make up because of the blind hatred in their hearts. I do not hide the facts, I told you, if you do not believe my words, if you want evidence, go to Israel and see for yourself. Live with a 100 families on both sides and then come to a conclusion! My intention is to elucidate the facts and understand the positions and the mistakes on both sides transparently.



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bullet Posted: 11 August 2007 at 5:00pm
Originally posted by Israeli_Avatar

I agree, that's all you had to do. I appreciate points being cleared up. But since when were Shiites not considered Muslim? And what about the honor killings, and the executions done by Sunnis against Shiites, and so-called apostates? What about the mass executions that occur in the middle east by the hands of Muslims against other muslims over religious issues?

 

I can sum up the answer to all of your questions in one phrase.

Do not judge Islam by its followers, read its beliefs unaltered by human hands and then attempt to say all that you are saying.

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herjihad
 
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bullet Posted: 11 August 2007 at 7:34pm
Originally posted by Israfil

Herjihad,

In all seriousness your attitude is really starting to piss me off. First off where did I say Israeli Avatar's points "interest me?" If you look back I freggin said:

Avatar made some good points but as I read further his points became flawed through his reaosning as brother Andalus pointed out.

If you cared to give a damn i aslo said:

Israeli Avatar really has no legit argument coming from a personal point of view.

So where in the last TWO post that I made here did I say I am interested in his points?

To the other members I apologize but I'm sick and tired of people getting on the soap box and reading my posts with emotion instead of logic. The fact that you overlooked what I said speaks volumes. If I say that someone makes a "good" point doesn't necessarily mean I agree with them. They simply made a good point. When someone makes a "good" point but ends up being flawed its called (in philosophical terms) a logical fallacy.

I mistakenly said:  Brother Israfil,  The fact that you say that some of IAvatar's ideas interest you or have merit in any way states volumes about your true attitude towards the Phalasteeneeyeen.

However, I still say:

To borrow Brother Andalus'es word, it is obfuscation for anyone to say that unless you live there, you don't understand it.  This is especially true since the Zionists drove my people out of Phalasteen, so that most Phalasteenee can't say that they have lived on their own land in their own country!

You have repeatedly said that the Phalasteeneeyeen who don't live there don't count, and you are wrong.  What an effective way to silence a people and the truth: Drive most of them out, build a wall around the truth, and say that those who aren't there have no idea what's going on.

AstagfirrAllah.  I won't forget that you drove Mishmish away based on this same method you are employing now with me. 

Salaamu Alaykum, Brother.

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Israfil
 
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bullet Posted: 11 August 2007 at 10:54pm

Herjihad,

Your tireless rant is quite annoying. Using bold colors to prove your point of view is quite childish and it is difficult for me to be cordial with you when, all you do is rant about what I say. Anybody leaving IslamiCity is of their own doing. Nobody has any virtual gun pointed to their head and making them leave so, singling me out saying I drove someone away is moot. I cannot make someone leave because it is impossible over the internet. I can make someone desire to leave but it all amounts to their choice for leaving.

Thank you for also choosing my words for me. I never said those who are not in the Palestinian region do not count, I was merely saying those not of that nationality/ethnic group cannot understand another group [who shares an entirely different ethnic and national status] claim to "know" another groups suffering. It would be an insult to me for some priviledged white woman to claim she knows the Black struggle if all her life she was not exposed to nothing but a silver spoon in her mouth. I'm sure Palestinians would agree that a Palestinian who grows up in America and only knows American lifestyle cannot claim to  know the suffering of the Palestinian people who live in that region [Ramallah, Gaza, etc]. I'm similarly critical of blacks here who act like they know the African struggle as if they were there. What I was trying to tell you specifically was you may identify with the Palestinian suffering through familiar ties [i.e. marriage, in-laws] but that doesn't necessitate that you know their pain. You are not them. I believe unless you've grown up in that region and have firsthand account of the events there how can you act like you truly know the suffering there? As a woman, perhaps you can identitfy with the Palestinians who have suffered discrimination under Israeli rule, but as far as I'm concerned that is about all you can identify. I'm still trying to figure out this method I'm using to drive people away. If you cannot handle people with opinions then maybe having discourse here is not your cup of tea.



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