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Cassandra
 
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bullet Posted: 09 August 2007 at 5:56am

"I think that if all preconcieved notions are torn asunder and disregarded, one can adress something in a clear and logical manner, while at the same time taking into consideration impartial and open-minded historical analyses." Israeli_avatar

Oh wouldn't that be nice!

"Islamicly speaking no massacre is justifiable for any reason not even in a valid jihad."  Rami

"Just to be clear or hopefully so, I love Jews and Muslims and Christians and yes, even atheists, who are decent people who respect and care for others lives and property and don't make excuses to massacre, ignore, or marginalize human suffering.  My distress and sadness encompasses the Jews and Christians and atheists as well as Muslims who suffer under the Zionist racist occupation of Phalasteen." Herjihad

Perhaps, from his point of view, Israeli_Avatar has a point.  But it is that very point which continues and perpetrates the very atrocities he derides in the Middle East today.  On both "sides". There is no "Simple Truth!"

I used to say to my children when they quarelled:  "Why can't we all just get along?"  Simplistic, yes.  But, hopefully and I pray, there will come a point in history when we realise that the past is the past and harping on it endlessly gets us nowhere.

C

Where is Daniel Dworsky when we need him?

 



 



Edited by Cassandra
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herjihad
 
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bullet Posted: 09 August 2007 at 4:19pm
Originally posted by Cassandra

"I think that if all preconcieved notions are torn asunder and disregarded, one can adress something in a clear and logical manner, while at the same time taking into consideration impartial and open-minded historical analyses." Israeli_avatar

Oh wouldn't that be nice!

"Islamicly speaking no massacre is justifiable for any reason not even in a valid jihad."  Rami

"Just to be clear or hopefully so, I love Jews and Muslims and Christians and yes, even atheists, who are decent people who respect and care for others lives and property and don't make excuses to massacre, ignore, or marginalize human suffering.  My distress and sadness encompasses the Jews and Christians and atheists as well as Muslims who suffer under the Zionist racist occupation of Phalasteen." Herjihad

Perhaps, from his point of view, Israeli_Avatar has a point.  But it is that very point which continues and perpetrates the very atrocities he derides in the Middle East today.  On both "sides". There is no "Simple Truth!"

I used to say to my children when they quarelled:  "Why can't we all just get along?"  Simplistic, yes.  But, hopefully and I pray, there will come a point in history when we realise that the past is the past and harping on it endlessly gets us nowhere.

C

Where is Daniel Dworsky when we need him?

 



 

Salaamu Alaykum,

I'm sure Daniel is busy caring for his family.

I disagree, Cassandra.  The clear truth is there were a group of people living peaceably for years as farmers and some city dwellers.  As with any people, they had some small conflicts amongst themselves.  Then because of a preplanned arrangement, people desperate to escape torment were lied to and led to believe they would find peace and prosperity on the nearly empty land of Jerusalem.  But that wasn't so.  Those poor people soon found out that they were supposed to go from one horrendous conflict to attack and kill others as they had just been.

The people's land, hopes and dreams were stolen and their families massacred.  There's no two sides to that story.  It's clear that the people had a home for hundreds of years where their farms and homes in the cities passed down from parents to children, and then they were chased down and killed and now are living in a small corner of their homes or their neighbor's homes.

It's one-sided.  The evil needs to stop.  And as I understand Brother Daniel, he also recognizes that the land was invaded and occuppied.  Look it up in the middle east section, please.

And now?  The oppression must stop immediately so that people can live their lives.  And the Phalasteeneeyeen must be given the right of return by the Israeli government.  Imagine leaving your country for a job and trying to come back only to be told that you couldn't!  Imagine being forced out, running from murderers living in caves and tents knowing your own home is just over the border.

The people with the power, money and guns need to make good decisions for a change.  Their policy of aggression and dimunition of the human and Allah Given rights of people must end.  Their foot is on the neck of the Phalasteeneeyeen, and when they take it off, then the Phalasteeneeyeen will get up with dignity and begin to live their lives with peace, love and dignity.  Except those whose torturous lives has tormented them beyond human recognition. 

ISA Allah will guide us and protect us.  They suffer openly, and we will suffer if we do not care for those who are oppressed.

Allahu Akbar!



Edited by herjihad
Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Andalus
 
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bullet Posted: 10 August 2007 at 12:03am
Originally posted by Israeli_Avatar

I will analyze the whole of your reply.

Salaamu Alaykum,

The truth of the matter is the opposite of what kahane has presented and you have agreed with.

First of all, I did not make any statements of approbation, do not take what I have stated out of context, and do my manipulate my words. "The truth of the matter" is more complicated than it seems, and it is never "the opposite" of anything, but a variation of that something intertwined with differential conjectures, analyses, and ideas that may just turn out to be a matter of perception that is reasonable than anything periphreal.

The Phalasteenee had land they owned and lived on for hundreds of years, even thousands for some.

The "Phalastenee" did not have anything as far ownership is concerned, that area of land was controlled by the Turks, or Ottomon Empire. If you were educated properly maybe then you would take it upon yourself to read before speaking.

Semantics. Arab Christians and Muslims and "actual" Middle Eastern Jews were well established in the region under the Ottomans and workled the land and lived on the land, etc, etc, etc.

You are trying to obfuscate the point through pointless semantics.

 

 

Also, the "Phalasteenee" were not just Muslims, they were also Jews and Christians. Over half a million Jews lived in "Palestine" before the state of Israel was even an idea.

Strawman. No one has argued contrary to this nor does this point invalidate what has been stated.

 

Additionally, the Muslim "Palestinians" of today could not have been their thousands of years, Islam is only about 1500 years old, and the Turks conquered that area in about the 12th century. What do the "Palestinians" have to do with anything? 

duh!.....they have only been the established people that Zionists have kicked the crap out of for 40 years now. What planet are you from?

Euro Jews worked with Euro Christians to take land away from one people and give it to another.

The word Palestinian or Filastin, as the country is called in Arabic, is not Palestinian‑Arab in origin (the Arabs of the region rarely used it before 1948) but refers to the biblical "Philistines," whose name the ancient Romans gave to the country in an attempt to obliterate the Jews' connection to it, and even this designation created by the Romans did not have any direct connection to the Palestinians.

More ad nauseum semantics. Who cares?

 

The contemporary Palestinian people are just a dialect of a larger sorrounding group that subsumed many other nationalities, and civilzations, a group that was ruled by the Turks, British, and the French before 1948, and a group that never really had their own unified nation, but were composed of conglomerations of tribes, some of which are Bedouins, and some actually serve in the Israeli army.

zioinst rubbish that obfuscates the points given to you. You did not do an analysis, you did an "obfuscation".

 

Also, ownership was not emphasized by Kahane, he merely spoke of murders, you are changing the subject. If you are trying to say that sand is more imporant than humanity then you need a serious brain transplant.

The criminal zion state is at the epitome of a criminal and racist ideology. What does Israel know of "humanity". The state was born out of lie and deceit, and one day, Praise be to God, it will also die in lies and deceit.

 

The foreign invasion of the Zionists has driven them into extreme poverty where they once were wealthy with all they needed for food, shelter, and living at peace with their God, whether they were Jew, Muslim, Christian or atheist.

Actually, they or the Mulslim Arabs who you think are the Palestinians, were in extreme poverty before the "Zionists" were ever there, and when the "Zionists" came, the land was revitilized, and many Arab buisnesses began to prosper.

 

LOL.....Zioinst propoganda. Simply "rubbish". The zionist want the world to know that the Palestinians are better off having Zioinst thugs controlling them. That is so idiotic that I will not give it any more attention.

 

 

 

 Their poverty was caused by Islamic rule, and Ottomon tax demands, demands that ecologically devasted "Palestine" because taxes were demanded for every tree that was in the ground,and many trees were obviously removed. This was the Ottomon way of capitilizing off the destruction of mother nature.

That was a great manipulation of the thread. Only a zionist could try and pull off such charades. This is Zionist propoganda and you know it. None of which holds any water and this is simply meant to "obfuscate". Keep in mind that the forum is not made up of the weak and usual ignorant mind set of the typical American. The heavy Zionist lobby was able to hood wink most Americans because they are too wrapped up in their materialism to leanr anything about history and the world. In other words, this intellectually bankrupt diatribe works on FOX news, or with the followers of John Hagee, but not at this forum.

 

 

These statements are so silly and implausible!  What did the faces of the Zionist invaders look like as they massacered entire villages of defenseless citizens? 

Hypothetically speaking, they probably looked, in this imaginary situation, like the faces of your brethren at a Hamas demonstration, or the Arab actors on your telivision networks that pretend to be Jews, and try to make ugly faces.

Nice rhetorical dance. I will answer for you: They were white Europeans, some with Turkic ancestory.

That was not so hard!?

What do the faces of the soldiers and settlers look like as they bully, harass, bulldoze, imprison and torment the remnants of the Phalasteeneeyeen?

What do the faces of your brothers look like when they yell "Allah Akbar" and blow themselves up, and kill innocent Israeli children?

Nice move! You avoided that one like a pro!

 

They have twisted, angry faces calling for blood and call the Phalasteeneeyeen the niggers of the Arab world.   What did you think?  They calmly and peacefully took their guns and tanks and bulldozers out and said in quiet voices:  Don't be alarmed.  Be calm.  We are going to kill you all now.  Leave, run if you can.  We don't mind.  Just don't come back, and don't tell anyone the truth about our massacres, Okay?

Forgive me, but were you involved in these massacres because you seem to have first hand knowledge of this?

Excuse me, were you involved with the Ottomans? You seem to have first hand knowledge. This is simply more manipulation. Your movement excells at information manipluation. 

 

 Are you one of the "niggers" that the Israelies left alone so you could perpetuate the "truth" of the "Israeli evil" all over the world, and your imaginary saintliness, and propriety in times of war?

Complex question (a fallacy).

 

Kahane's words are not a genuine point of view.  They are lies and propoganda.  The Zionists came; they massacred; they conquered, and they rule with an iron fist and team of bulldozers, fighter planes, and tanks provided by the United States Government and her people.

Your words are obviously the most genuine, that is exactly why you protest the idea of Islam being a violent religion with violence, and treat your women like filthy dogs. Who are these Zionists? What is the definition of that word?

who cares, you can play semantics all day long with that word until it fits your agenda, and one day that agenda will change as will your definition. The truth is in action, and your movement is "criminal".

 

 To most Arabs a "zionist" and a Jew is a synonymous term, please clarify what you mean. I must admit that certain "Zionists" acted unethically, but did you ever take a look in the mirror at your own reflection before you label the "Zionists" evil, or animalistic?

There is true that Zionism and Jew are not necessarily the same things. I know of Jews who rightfully despise Zionsim.

 

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that these "Zionists rule with an Iron fist," so what then does the Taliban do? What does Iran do? Do they rule with a wooden penus? Or maybe a suicide bomb and an ak-47? If you are going to hold the "Zionists" up to a certain standard, I expect you to do that for everybody. After all, you are an educated and inteligent individual.

Irrelevant, no one is talking about the Taliban.

Furthermore, Israel has a lot in common with Iran, and the Taliban: They are all products of western manipulation. The Taliban-> formed as a result of the mess the US left in the country. Iran-> The British and US used false flag operations known as operation Ajax to change a government from a democratically elected one to a corrputed monarchy. The result was the "revolution". Israel-> The British, backed by the US, gave away someone elses land to another people and then armed them and trained them.

Your country stands as a testament to deception and fruad.

 

A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
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Israfil
 
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bullet Posted: 10 August 2007 at 1:03am
Me thinks the Jewish Avatar may not answer back....
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Cassandra
 
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bullet Posted: 10 August 2007 at 3:03am

Thank you for your response, Sister Herjihad.  I think perhaps you may have misunderstood my point.  Believe me......there is nothing in your reply I would disagree with.  When I lived in Canada, I was once very friendly with a family of Christian Arabs from Ramallah.  I have heard the horror stories first hand.

Perhaps what I meant was that it is very difficult to get outside of one's deeply entrenched point of view.  This is the message I get from Israeli Avatar.  Nothing more.

C

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Noah
 
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bullet Posted: 10 August 2007 at 5:25am
israel avatar....hogwash!!!
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bullet Posted: 10 August 2007 at 8:18am

Israel:

"dear world, if you are bothered by us, here is one Jew in Israel who could not care less."

 

The world:

We know, but "the world" changes, eventually you will care.


Respectfully
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bullet Posted: 10 August 2007 at 9:33am
Originally posted by Cassandra

Thank you for your response, Sister Herjihad.  I think perhaps you may have misunderstood my point.  Believe me......there is nothing in your reply I would disagree with.  When I lived in Canada, I was once very friendly with a family of Christian Arabs from Ramallah.  I have heard the horror stories first hand.

Perhaps what I meant was that it is very difficult to get outside of one's deeply entrenched point of view.  This is the message I get from Israeli Avatar.  Nothing more.

C

I totally agree with the above bold.

This is the problem I have had with certain individuals in the other thread I posted regarding the Mickey Mouse imposter. Not trying to derail here (just a brief non sequitor) but, I think when discussing (or criticizing) the current events going on in the Middle East it is hard for most of the individudals here who either have family, children, or otherrelatives in the Middle East. Again, Israeli Avatar really has no legit argument coming from a personal point of view. Unless there is someone who is there in the battle fields typing away his/her opining here we can only really give out second hand information on the tragedies there.

Avatar made some good points but as I read further his points became flawed through his reaosning as brother Andalus pointed out.

 

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