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syed123
 
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Quote syed123 Replybullet Posted: 26 August 2007 at 9:38pm

I will be most obliged if you provided us a list of the conflicts that our leaders, influential members of the community and the clergy have mislead us to kickstart?

 

Muslims themselves have been equally harsh to each other because of a leadership that has failed in compassion and vision.

Here is a preliminary list that you have asked for:

1)In Algeria over 50,000 have been killed during the 1990s in the most brutal manner possible;

2)The dispossessed Kurds have been savagely persecuted by several Muslim states including Turkey, iran and iraq.

3)Sunni Muslims have fought Shi'ites, and Iran and Iraq waged a bloody ten-year war that may have killed a million people.

4)Pakistan which is almost a failed islamic state has Shias and Sunnis   ,Mohajirs and Non-mohajirs,Punjabis and Non Punjabis,Sindhis belonging to the jeo sindh movement and non sindhis, the pashtuns in NWFP are all at loggerheads with each other and secretarian violence and resultant deaths are all too common..

5)In the kingdom of Bahrain the ruling Sunni Al-Khalifa royal family rules over a majority Shia population which is deeply discontended and restive.

6)By the way the Darfur conflict in Sudan  which has killed thousands is between  the  province's nomadic Arab tribes, supported by the government in Khartoum, and the native African settled peasant tribes.

The deep causes of the rebellion lie in the feeling of superiority and cultural elitism of the “Arab tribesmen”, and of resentment and perceived oppression and neglect on the part of the “Africans”.

The Ultimate irony is that Both the parties involved are Sunni Muslims!!!!!!.

In all the above examples the ruling political elite and the religious clergy have contributed to the violence and sufffering of the ordinary man on the street.



Edited by syed123
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Whisper
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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 27 August 2007 at 7:24am

Every muslim in the world doesnt need to have the same views. We can all agree to disagree without fighting amongst ourselves.

Almost all the established members, of this Forum, would bear witness to the fact that I have never posted anything with any Islamic tinge, or have even claimed to be a Muslim. I was cultured in an atmosphere (and also with some grave responsibility) of flowing beyond any considerations of faith, colour, caste, creed or sex.

 

You can ask our Angel I have no problem ever with any disagreements.

And just because ordinary muslims like myself happen to have a more balanced view and a constructive approach we dont become US State dept stooges or zionist tools.

If you promise not to mind, may I ask who calibrated your views and approach? I am not sure if Self Certification is accepted, as evidence, in the US, as defence against, say, a murder charge?

 

Here, in the United Kingdom, a judge normally bangs his wooden hammer on his desk and orders the accused to shut up as soon as the charged falls into singing some songs of his own praise.

 

My friend, study you posts and, please, educate us on why all your balanced views, all your constructive approaches and even all your phrases are exactly the same as has long been peddled by the US and their Zionist masters?

This is not only an insult to myself but also to the millions of muslims around the world who would like to approach the burning issues of the Ummah with constructive calculated pragmatism instead of emotional self destructive violence aimed at the innocents.

Please just be a bit specific about the issues instead of using such a broad brush the burning issues of the Ummah.

 

Just tell us how do you come to pick up only those burning issues, which have long been marked by the Zionists for Muslim solution?

 

Muslims themselves have been equally harsh to each other because of a leadership that has failed in compassion and vision.

Here is a preliminary list that you have asked for:

1) In Algeria over 50,000 have been killed during the 1990s in the most brutal manner possible;

My dearest friend, shall I thank thee, in silence or just with tears of immense joy? For proving my belief in your utter innocence and far beyond my own wildest dreams!

 

Anyone in our world who knows anything about Algeria, knows what happened there and how the situation was manufactured. You live in a democratic country, you claim to be burning with the love of all poor Muslims and you refuse to know how an entire people (well, only 92.4% of them) were dispossessed of their right to govern themselves?

 

Would anyone, please, tell the Algerian story to my Morshed, here?

2)The dispossessed Kurds have been savagely persecuted by several Muslim states including Turkey, iran and iraq.

Have you ever lived in Turkey?

Have you ever had Kurdish neighbours for straight 2 years in one go and then for a few months at a time for a good long time?

 

Is it ever possible that the Kurds might have contributed something to their own plight in these countries?

 

You shout a campaign against those forces of extremism, intolerance and all of that, but disruptions and outright terrorism becomes kosher just if it’s of US design?

3) Sunni Muslims have fought Shi'ites, and Iran and Iraq waged a bloody ten-year war that may have killed a million people.

We were talking of those Forces of extremism, intolerance and whatever? But, never mind, I will ask you just one simple question:

What do you expect the poor Iranians to do when a Puppet, put on the Baghdad throne, by your masters, attacks Iran? at his Master’s behest?

4) Pakistan which is almost a failed islamic state

Sir, may I ask?

With such a unique and brilliant mind, why not roll out at least a term or two of your own manufacture? Why ever solely rely on the US State Department supplies?

has Shias and Sunnis, Mohajirs and Non-mohajirs, Punjabis and Non Punjabis, Sindhis belonging to the jeo sindh movement and non sindhis, the pashtuns in NWFP are all at loggerheads with each other and secretarian violence and resultant deaths are all too common.

When were you last in Pakistan?

(I do remember, a batch of American Paki doctors did visit Islamabad, sometimes this year, to bolster up the sagging American image, with Karen Hughes’ blessings. Were you with that group?)

 

I live in Pakistan, the UK and Spain are just my break hideouts.

I work full time, with real people out there, they grow sugar cane and breed cattle (and also some horses) for us.

 

Besides my madre’s Farsi and my paternal grandmother’s Pushtu, I speak Urdu like a UPite (was married to one of the most beautiful Bareili woman for over 32 years); Punjabi like some thait Lhori (lived in the Punjab since our exile); Sindhi (my largest estate is in Sindh and I am no lati fundista, I am actually on the spot almost as often as some Karachite would go to the Burns Road for a Nihari!) and through strong Baluchi family connections, I ended up learning Brohi.

 

I am no sa’b, I am a mere peasant, I love people and I just don’t interact with them, I get into them and I allow them to get into me.

 

I would also love to see this Rios del Sangre (Rivers of Blood) painting you have painted for us. Is it hanging at some gallery or just exists in some policy documents at the Presidency? For, I have never been able to locate any such rampant Rios del Sangre anywhere in that country’s majority - 72.4% rural - population.

 

Yes, like in any other society, there are occasional local, mainly, family and at times also factional feuds. Other than that this Rivers of Blood scenario is painted by just two great artists: one trying to hang on to the last threads of his stolen power and his partner now in self imposed exile, from those 93 torture, extortion and murder cases pending against him in Pakistan courts.

 

YES. Baluchistan and the NWFP are on fire or, we could say are now “In the Line of Fire”.

 

And, we all know who is responsible for that. Sorry, I meant to exclude yourself and our Washington friends.

5)In the kingdom of Bahrain the ruling Sunni Al-Khalifa royal family rules over a majority Shia population which is deeply discontended and restive.

That’s exceptionally sad. But they are no friends of mine, but your country’s best mates. I believe you had something called a CentCom there. What can we do?

 

I think, it would be a very good idea to knock at some doors a bit closer at home.

6) By the way the Darfur conflict in Sudan which has killed thousands is between the province's nomadic Arab tribes, supported by the government in Khartoum, and the native African settled peasant tribes.

The deep causes of the rebellion lie in the feeling of superiority and cultural elitism of the “Arab tribesmen”, and of resentment and perceived oppression and neglect on the part of the “Africans”.

The Ultimate irony is that Both the parties involved are Sunni Muslims!!!!!!.

In all the above examples the ruling political elite and the religious clergy have contributed to the violence and sufffering of the ordinary man on the street.

This is predominantly a typical class struggle or conflict. Where does the Mullah’s charisma come into all of this? Tell me how many poor mullahs do you wish to buy in any Cap It All istic set up. Just get the right amount of funds allocated and we go shopping.

 

But, if you need a Senator or two also in your basket then we would need a wee more funds. My friend, these are some of the Market Economy miracles.
Sasha Khanzadeh
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syed123
 
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Quote syed123 Replybullet Posted: 27 August 2007 at 8:42pm

First of all Whisper  I  was definitely fascinated by your culturally rich  background and history.

Now back to business,

I would like to ask you just one question ,

Do you think that Violence is the answer and solution to all the problems of muslims around the world????

 

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Quote Zanjabil Replybullet Posted: 28 August 2007 at 7:08am
Originally posted by syed123

Do you think that Violence is the answer and solution to all the problems of muslims around the world????

syed123, why not put that question to your own self?

Do you think that Violent invasions of sovereign states is the answer to all the problems of Muslim extremism around the world?

The chief Violence disgracing the planet at present is that of the US army. According to credible research, over a million Iraqis have been killed since the US illegal invasion. Is genocide not Violence?

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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 28 August 2007 at 10:02am

First of all Whisper I was definitely fascinated by your culturally rich background and history.

Thanks my friend, it’s just some dust gathered through the journey of life.

I would like to ask you just one question,

Do you think that Violence is the answer and solution to all the problems of muslims around the world????

Shah saheb, did I ever say that?

 

I am just concerned about your definition of violence?

 

What is the percentage of Muslims who are trying to solve anything with violence?

 

What do you do when violence is thrust on you?

Do you just run away, dig a huge deep enough hole, lie in it and pretend to be dead?

 

EVEN THE UNITED NATIONS CAN TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN VIOLENCE AND NATIONAL STRUGGLES AGAINST INVADERS.

 

Other than your posts, only the Zionist’s quarter paints the Muslims as some inherently violent bunch.

 

It will be futile for me to ask you your reasons for that.

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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 28 August 2007 at 10:04am

Zanjabil
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I am learning straight sharp brevity from you.

Thanks

Sasha Khanzadeh
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syed123
 
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Quote syed123 Replybullet Posted: 28 August 2007 at 1:54pm

To Zanjabil,

What do you have to say about the Unforgivable  suicide bombers  who are blowing up not hundreds but thousands of innocent Iraqis women and children?

Even today dozens of innocent pilgrims were killed in karbala caught in the crossfire between 2 opposing shiite militias.

Why do you have  this Hypocritical approach when it comes to atrocities perpetrated by criminals who happen to be a band of misguided muslims who have gone astray????

In a war is the US army supposed to stand still and not defend itself when its attacked???

If you lose your sense of justice there would be no difference between the accuser and the accused.

Why do you expect all the justice and kindness  from United states  without taking the faults and wrongs committed by persons from our own religion.???????

Its all very easy to take the populist stand and shield the faults and fallacies of our people but in the long run the  whole Ummah pays a heavy price like we are doing right now.

We have to confront and eliminate the self destructive policy of Mccarthyism  where anybody who confronts the faults and wrong policies within the Ummah is labelled as a Zionist or Western stooge.



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Quote Zanjabil Replybullet Posted: 28 August 2007 at 3:20pm

syed123, am I a "hypocrite" in your eyes?

You speak of the need to cleanse Islam of wrongdoers. What Islam? Kindly show me your Islam. I do not see it.

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