IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: 60 Questions for Christians to Answer

Author

Message

BMZ

Moderator Group

Joined: 03 April 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1852

Posted: 26 July 2007 at 9:47am

Khairullah,

I had asked for your permission to reply on IOL because you had asked Christians to respond. Can I? Please post a short note there.

Thanks & Salaams

BMZ

Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."

IP Logged

BMZ

Moderator Group

Joined: 03 April 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1852

Posted: 26 July 2007 at 9:50am

Buddyman: "PS Modalism is a heresy that goes against the trinity."

Trinity is itself a heresy. A heresy against Jesus and God.

Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."

IP Logged

buddyman

Senior Member

Joined: 26 June 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 295

Posted: 26 July 2007 at 12:50pm

Originally posted by Andalus

Originally posted by buddyman

Originally posted by Andalus

Originally posted by buddyman

Originally posted by Andalus

Originally posted by buddyman

God Manifested in Nature

     Though there is nothing in this world that adequately illustrates God, Paul declares the “invisible things of him from the creation of the world” can help us understand “his eternal power and Godhead” (Romans 1:20). The truth that God is a “tri-unity” of two invisible persons (Father and Spirit) and one visible person (Jesus) is evident even in creation.
     The universe is composed of three structures: space, matter, and time. Of these three, only matter is visible. Space requires length, height, and width to constitute space. Each dimension is separate and distinct in itself, yet the three form space—if you remove height, you no longer have space. Time is also a tri-unity of past, present, and future. Two are invisible (past and future), and one visible (present). Each is separate and distinct, as well as essential for time to exist. Man is also a “tri-unity,” having physical, mental, and spiritual components. Again, two are invisible (mental and spiritual) and one visible (physical). Cells compose the fundamental structural unit of all living organisms. All organic life is made up from cells that consist of three primary parts: the outer wall, the cytoplasm, and the nucleus (like the shell, white, and yoke of an egg). If any one is removed, the cell dies.
     In each of these examples, the removal of any one component results in the demise of the whole. In like manner, the Godhead contains three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Each is God (Ephesians 4:6; Titus 2:13; Acts 5:3, 4), yet there is one God. The removal of one person destroys the unity of the whole.

Your examples have proven an age old heresy of your church: modalism. There is nothing in nature that actually corresponds to the trinity, which is why your doctors have focused a great deal of effort writing volumes and volumes of work trying to explain why god should be a trinity more than how god actually is a trinity.

PS Modalism is a heresy that goes against the trinity.

Even the gospel story illustrates the interdependency of threes. The sanctuary had three places: the Courtyard, the Holy Place, and the Most Holy Place. There are three stages of salvation: justification, sanctification, and glorification. In Isaiah 6:3, the angels around God’s throne cry “Holy, Holy, Holy” three times—once for the Father, once for the Son, and once for the Holy Spirit.

When you read this you have to get a whole description of God. God tells us who He is through out the entire Bible. That is why I urge you to read it.

I have read the bible, and I have already given you my objections and arguments on at least two of the main prophecy evidences used by your faith, and you have simply brushed these off with, "you need to read the whole bible", or, "you just do not understand".

With all due respect, taking into account the lack of your own "work", and the use of extremely low level sources to make your claims, I have to conclude that you do not know your bible very well, nor do you understand the more complicated theological ideas, if you did, you would be able to discuss your claims on a very different level.

kindest regards

I don't believe I posted everything yet

And then what? Lets look at your original copy and paste. Either what you wrote had problems, or did not have problems. I showed the problems as did others. Now, the only thing you can add is either an agreement that you made an error or material that further tries to assert that your error is true. You cannot copy and paste your way out of problems.

regards

Funny you mention copy and pasting. I saw that you had copied and pasted on another thread, but I guess thats ok

Buddyman, either you are obtuse or you are puprosely trying to play difficult by equating an act within "reasonable" bounds, in contrast to an act that exceeds "reasonable" boundaries to the point where it is "unreasonable".

1) No one has said that you cannot "copy and paste" at all, or use material from the works of others. Using references, and pasting material in support of an argument is "reasonable". Allowing "copy and paste" material to represent 80 to 90% of what you think or beieve is "unreasonable". Using that same work to support your views is "reasonable".

2) Copy and pasting material to read, and for discussion is reasonable. 80% of a person's contributions that are made of purely "copy and paste" material, including repeating the material in other threads, is "unreasonable".

3) Copy and pasting work to discuss is reasonable. A pattern of ignoring people when they engage your material after they take the time to read it is "unreasonable".

4) Using copy and pasted material, with only, "I agree, because...."copy and pasted material"", or "I disagree, because, "copy and pasted material". This is "unreasonable". We are not here to refute our personally favorite websites, this is a discussion forum. If you find that the majority of your contribution requires people to constantly read and refute someone elses work, not that of the contributor, then common sense dictates that it is "unreasonable".

I hope this clears things up.

Unreasonable because you don't want to read it all not because I'm too lazy to type it all out myself..lol!

IP Logged

buddyman

Senior Member

Joined: 26 June 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 295

Posted: 26 July 2007 at 12:58pm

Originally posted by BMZ

Khairullah,

I had asked for your permission to reply on IOL because you had asked Christians to respond. Can I? Please post a short note there.

Thanks & Salaams

BMZ

Have you ever read the Book of Revelation? Jesus himself says he is the beginning and the end.

Read Isaiah 44:6 to the end. Then read Revelation Chapter 1:17 & 18

Isaiah 41:4, Isaiah 44:6, Isaiah 48:12, Revelation 2:8, Revelation 22:13

etc... what of you're wrong?

IP Logged

buddyman

Senior Member

Joined: 26 June 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 295

Posted: 31 July 2007 at 10:00am

By the way, can any Muslim here tell me how Jesus will return and how you will know it is him? I have heard several Muslims give the description below.....

1) Jesus will have a mustache 2.5 meters long

Honetly I thought that was a joke, but I've heard this many times

2) Jesus will walk on water

He already did that

3) A stone will fall somewhere in Arabia

I'm sure many stones have fallen

IP Logged

islamispeace
Islam
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 01 November 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1417

Posted: 31 July 2007 at 5:58pm

Originally posted by buddyman

By the way, can any Muslim here tell me how Jesus will return and how you will know it is him? I have heard several Muslims give the description below.....

1) Jesus will have a mustache 2.5 meters long

Honetly I thought that was a joke, but I've heard this many times

2) Jesus will walk on water

He already did that

3) A stone will fall somewhere in Arabia

I'm sure many stones have fallen

I have no idea where they got these "signs" from. Concerning the physical characteristics of Jesus (pbuh), we find the following ahadith in Sahih Muslim (Book 1, Number 317):

“Abu al-'Aliya reported: Ibn Abbas, the son of your Prophet's uncle, told us that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) had observed: On the night of my night journey I passed by Moses b. 'Imran (peace be upon him), a man light brown in complexion, tall. well-built as if he was one of the men of the Shanu'a, and saw Jesus son of Mary as a medium-statured man with white and red complexion and crisp hair, and I was shown Malik the guardian of Fire, and Dajjal amongst the signs which were shown to me by Allah. He (the narrator) observed: Then do not doubt his (i. e. of the Holy Prophet) meeting with him (Moses). Qatada elucidated it thus: Verily the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him), met Moses (peace be upon him).”

Concerning the actual return of Jesus, we find the following ahadith, again from Sahih Muslim (Book 41, Number 7015):

"…it would at this very time that Allah would send Christ, son of Mary, and he will descend at the white minaret in the eastern side of Damascus wearing two garments lightly dyed with saffron and placing his hands on the wings of two Angels. When he would lower his head, there would fall beads of perspiration from his head, and when he would raise it up, beads like pearls would scatter from it. Every non-believer who would smell the odour of his self would die and his breath would reach as far as he would be able to see. He would then search for him (Dajjal) until he would catch hold of him at the gate of Ludd and would kill him."

This ahadith is quite lengthy, so I have only quoted the portion relevant to your question.

Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

IP Logged

BMZ

Moderator Group

Joined: 03 April 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1852

Posted: 04 August 2007 at 4:06am

Originally posted by buddyman

Originally posted by BMZ

Khairullah,

I had asked for your permission to reply on IOL because you had asked Christians to respond. Can I? Please post a short note there.

Thanks & Salaams

BMZ

Have you ever read the Book of Revelation? Jesus himself says he is the beginning and the end.

Read Isaiah 44:6 to the end. Then read Revelation Chapter 1:17 & 18

Isaiah 41:4, Isaiah 44:6, Isaiah 48:12, Revelation 2:8, Revelation 22:13

etc... what of you're wrong?

Revelation has never impressed me, buddyman. That book has been in and out of the New Testament quite a few times. It is all John's wild imaginations, nothing truly from God and Jesus, just his dreams and visions.

Have you ever read the Jewish Holy Scriptures, buddyman? After the declaration by the The Lord Almighty,"I am the First and I am the Last", no one can be given that title.

John, plagiarised that brutally and changed it to "I am the Alpha and Omega" using Greek alphabets but that does not change the FACT that only the Lord Almighty God owns the Patent.

BMZ

Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."

IP Logged

BMZ

Moderator Group

Joined: 03 April 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1852

Posted: 04 August 2007 at 4:11am

Originally posted by buddyman

By the way, can any Muslim here tell me how Jesus will return and how you will know it is him? I have heard several Muslims give the description below.....

1) Jesus will have a mustache 2.5 meters long

Honetly I thought that was a joke, but I've heard this many times

2) Jesus will walk on water

He already did that

3) A stone will fall somewhere in Arabia

I'm sure many stones have fallen

I will stay away from this as I believe that Jesus is not coming back. I don't even believe that he really walked on water.

BMZ

Edited by BMZ

Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."

IP Logged

	Active Topics Memberlist Calendar Search Help
	Register Login Old Forum

Interfaith Dialogue
IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue

Topic: 60 Questions for Christians to Answer
	<< Prev Page of 6 Next >>

Author	Message
BMZ Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1852	Posted: 26 July 2007 at 9:47am
	Khairullah, I had asked for your permission to reply on IOL because you had asked Christians to respond. Can I? Please post a short note there. Thanks & Salaams BMZ
	Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."
	IP Logged

BMZ Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1852	Posted: 26 July 2007 at 9:50am
	Buddyman: "PS Modalism is a heresy that goes against the trinity." Trinity is itself a heresy. A heresy against Jesus and God.
	Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."
	IP Logged

buddyman Senior Member Joined: 26 June 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 295	Posted: 26 July 2007 at 12:50pm
	*Originally posted by Andalus* *Originally posted by buddyman* *Originally posted by Andalus* *Originally posted by buddyman* *Originally posted by Andalus* *Originally posted by buddyman* God Manifested in Nature Though there is nothing in this world that adequately illustrates God, Paul declares the “invisible things of him from the creation of the world” can help us understand “his eternal power and Godhead” (Romans 1:20). The truth that God is a “tri-unity” of two invisible persons (Father and Spirit) and one visible person (Jesus) is evident even in creation. The universe is composed of three structures: space, matter, and time. Of these three, only matter is visible. Space requires length, height, and width to constitute space. Each dimension is separate and distinct in itself, yet the three form space—if you remove height, you no longer have space. Time is also a tri-unity of past, present, and future. Two are invisible (past and future), and one visible (present). Each is separate and distinct, as well as essential for time to exist. Man is also a “tri-unity,” having physical, mental, and spiritual components. Again, two are invisible (mental and spiritual) and one visible (physical). Cells compose the fundamental structural unit of all living organisms. All organic life is made up from cells that consist of three primary parts: the outer wall, the cytoplasm, and the nucleus (like the shell, white, and yoke of an egg). If any one is removed, the cell dies. In each of these examples, the removal of any one component results in the demise of the whole. In like manner, the Godhead contains three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Each is God (Ephesians 4:6; Titus 2:13; Acts 5:3, 4), yet there is one God. The removal of one person destroys the unity of the whole. Your examples have proven an age old heresy of your church: modalism. There is nothing in nature that actually corresponds to the trinity, which is why your doctors have focused a great deal of effort writing volumes and volumes of work trying to explain why god should be a trinity more than how god actually is a trinity. PS Modalism is a heresy that goes against the trinity. Even the gospel story illustrates the interdependency of threes. The sanctuary had three places: the Courtyard, the Holy Place, and the Most Holy Place. There are three stages of salvation: justification, sanctification, and glorification. In Isaiah 6:3, the angels around God’s throne cry “Holy, Holy, Holy” three times—once for the Father, once for the Son, and once for the Holy Spirit. When you read this you have to get a whole description of God. God tells us who He is through out the entire Bible. That is why I urge you to read it. I have read the bible, and I have already given you my objections and arguments on at least two of the main prophecy evidences used by your faith, and you have simply brushed these off with, "you need to read the whole bible", or, "you just do not understand". With all due respect, taking into account the lack of your own "work", and the use of extremely low level sources to make your claims, I have to conclude that you do not know your bible very well, nor do you understand the more complicated theological ideas, if you did, you would be able to discuss your claims on a very different level. kindest regards I don't believe I posted everything yet And then what? Lets look at your original copy and paste. Either what you wrote had problems, or did not have problems. I showed the problems as did others. Now, the only thing you can add is either an agreement that you made an error or material that further tries to assert that your error is true. You cannot copy and paste your way out of problems. regards Funny you mention copy and pasting. I saw that you had copied and pasted on another thread, but I guess thats ok Buddyman, either you are obtuse or you are puprosely trying to play difficult by equating an act within "reasonable" bounds, in contrast to an act that exceeds "reasonable" boundaries to the point where it is "unreasonable". 1) No one has said that you cannot "copy and paste" at all, or use material from the works of others. Using references, and pasting material in support of an argument is "reasonable". Allowing "copy and paste" material to represent 80 to 90% of what you think or beieve is "unreasonable". Using that same work to support your views is "reasonable". 2) Copy and pasting material to read, and for discussion is reasonable. 80% of a person's contributions that are made of purely "copy and paste" material, including repeating the material in other threads, is "unreasonable". 3) Copy and pasting work to discuss is reasonable. A pattern of ignoring people when they engage your material after they take the time to read it is "unreasonable". 4) Using copy and pasted material, with only, "I agree, because...."copy and pasted material"", or "I disagree, because, "copy and pasted material". This is "unreasonable". We are not here to refute our personally favorite websites, this is a discussion forum. If you find that the majority of your contribution requires people to constantly read and refute someone elses work, not that of the contributor, then common sense dictates that it is "unreasonable". I hope this clears things up. Unreasonable because you don't want to read it all not because I'm too lazy to type it all out myself..lol!
	IP Logged

buddyman Senior Member Joined: 26 June 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 295	Posted: 26 July 2007 at 12:58pm
	*Originally posted by BMZ* Khairullah, I had asked for your permission to reply on IOL because you had asked Christians to respond. Can I? Please post a short note there. Thanks & Salaams BMZ Have you ever read the Book of Revelation? Jesus himself says he is the beginning and the end. Read Isaiah 44:6 to the end. Then read Revelation Chapter 1:17 & 18 Isaiah 41:4, Isaiah 44:6, Isaiah 48:12, Revelation 2:8, Revelation 22:13 etc... what of you're wrong?
	IP Logged

buddyman Senior Member Joined: 26 June 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 295	Posted: 31 July 2007 at 10:00am
	By the way, can any Muslim here tell me how Jesus will return and how you will know it is him? I have heard several Muslims give the description below..... 1) Jesus will have a mustache 2.5 meters long Honetly I thought that was a joke, but I've heard this many times 2) Jesus will walk on water He already did that 3) A stone will fall somewhere in Arabia I'm sure many stones have fallen
	IP Logged

islamispeace Islam Senior Member Joined: 01 November 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1417	Posted: 31 July 2007 at 5:58pm
	*Originally posted by buddyman* By the way, can any Muslim here tell me how Jesus will return and how you will know it is him? I have heard several Muslims give the description below..... 1) Jesus will have a mustache 2.5 meters long Honetly I thought that was a joke, but I've heard this many times 2) Jesus will walk on water He already did that 3) A stone will fall somewhere in Arabia I'm sure many stones have fallen I have no idea where they got these "signs" from. Concerning the physical characteristics of Jesus (pbuh), we find the following ahadith in Sahih Muslim (Book 1, Number 317): “Abu al-'Aliya reported: Ibn Abbas, the son of your Prophet's uncle, told us that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) had observed: On the night of my night journey I passed by Moses b. 'Imran (peace be upon him), a man light brown in complexion, tall. well-built as if he was one of the men of the Shanu'a, and saw Jesus son of Mary as a medium-statured man with white and red complexion and crisp hair, and I was shown Malik the guardian of Fire, and Dajjal amongst the signs which were shown to me by Allah. He (the narrator) observed: Then do not doubt his (i. e. of the Holy Prophet) meeting with him (Moses). Qatada elucidated it thus: Verily the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him), met Moses (peace be upon him).” Concerning the actual return of Jesus, we find the following ahadith, again from Sahih Muslim (Book 41, Number 7015): "…it would at this very time that Allah would send Christ, son of Mary, and he will descend at the white minaret in the eastern side of Damascus wearing two garments lightly dyed with saffron and placing his hands on the wings of two Angels. When he would lower his head, there would fall beads of perspiration from his head, and when he would raise it up, beads like pearls would scatter from it. Every non-believer who would smell the odour of his self would die and his breath would reach as far as he would be able to see. He would then search for him (Dajjal) until he would catch hold of him at the gate of Ludd and would kill him." This ahadith is quite lengthy, so I have only quoted the portion relevant to your question.
	Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)
	IP Logged

BMZ Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1852	Posted: 04 August 2007 at 4:06am
	*Originally posted by buddyman* *Originally posted by BMZ* Khairullah, I had asked for your permission to reply on IOL because you had asked Christians to respond. Can I? Please post a short note there. Thanks & Salaams BMZ Have you ever read the Book of Revelation? Jesus himself says he is the beginning and the end. Read Isaiah 44:6 to the end. Then read Revelation Chapter 1:17 & 18 Isaiah 41:4, Isaiah 44:6, Isaiah 48:12, Revelation 2:8, Revelation 22:13 etc... what of you're wrong? Revelation has never impressed me, buddyman. That book has been in and out of the New Testament quite a few times. It is all John's wild imaginations, nothing truly from God and Jesus, just his dreams and visions. Have you ever read the Jewish Holy Scriptures, buddyman? After the declaration by the The Lord Almighty,"I am the First and I am the Last", no one can be given that title. John, plagiarised that brutally and changed it to "I am the Alpha and Omega" using Greek alphabets but that does not change the FACT that only the Lord Almighty God owns the Patent. BMZ
	Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."
	IP Logged

BMZ Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1852	Posted: 04 August 2007 at 4:11am
	*Originally posted by buddyman* By the way, can any Muslim here tell me how Jesus will return and how you will know it is him? I have heard several Muslims give the description below..... 1) Jesus will have a mustache 2.5 meters long Honetly I thought that was a joke, but I've heard this many times 2) Jesus will walk on water He already did that 3) A stone will fall somewhere in Arabia I'm sure many stones have fallen I will stay away from this as I believe that Jesus is not coming back. I don't even believe that he really walked on water. BMZ Edited by BMZ
	Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."
	IP Logged