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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 09 July 2007 at 12:41am
Originally posted by Angel

Originally posted by Israfil

Even if it were possible to travel out of the body how does the individual know that they are not simply hallucinating?

When you know that you haven't taken any drugs or anything else

It seems like that people have forgotten about Muhammad and his one night travel so far away  did Muhammad take some kind of drug?

Angel were you asking me: "What if you haven't taken any drugs or anything that alters your state of mind?" Well, this would depend on your short and long term memory and whether or not they are activating to give you the correct memories to conjure.

I also haven't forgotten about Muhammad's night journey. You must have forgotten that it is not universal on exactly the state of the prophet. Some believe he was asleep, others believe that he took an actual conscious out-of-body travel to the 7 levels of Heaven. The prophet wasn't naturally super natural either. All that he did was by God's will therefore, the spiritual travel he made was not of his own doing anyway but by God's and besides, prophets and their abilities aren't necessarily "normal" so this is perhaps an exception to the rule.

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rami
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Quote rami Replybullet Posted: 09 July 2007 at 1:04am
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

Some believe he was asleep, others believe that he took an actual conscious out-of-body travel to the 7 levels of Heaven

This isnt correct, the difference is in whether or not he made the journey physically or his spirit alone [see muhammad asad notes in his translation of the quran] , no one ever claimed he was sleeping ie having a dream and this would be kufr to say since allah said he took him and the prophet [sallahllahu alaihi wa sallam] said he went to Jerusalem and described its physical aspect as proof of his journey.

this itself is testimony to the existence of this phenomenon, you also can not use an assumption to negate what is within the realm of possibility you would need explicit evidence for that, i have never seen anything from any islamic source.
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Allahuakbar501
 
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Quote Allahuakbar501 Replybullet Posted: 09 July 2007 at 2:30am

Sounds like something a sufi would say or some sort of monkery i dont know seems farfetched to me.

"To begin withg GROW UP, if i was to quote you the list of shaykhs who where ""sufi's"" and whom you just insulted you would feel disgusted with yourself, no doubt you follow them without even knowing and  the only thing you know about tassawuf is from gossip and third hand information."

Please give me these list of Shaykhs I'll give you their list of Bid'a!

 

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rami
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Quote rami Replybullet Posted: 09 July 2007 at 7:29am
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

ill say just a few,

Shaykh Ibn taymiyah
Shaykhs Abdul wahhab and sulaiman ibn abdul wahhab, the father and brothers of muhammad ibn abdul wahhab.
Imam an Nawawi
Imam Tirmidhi
Hasan al basri
Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani
Imam al suyuti
al Tabari
ibn al jawzi
Imam Abu Hanifah
Imam jafar as sidiq, his teacher
Imam Malik,
Imam Shafii,
Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal,
Imam al Ghazali
Imam abdul Qadir al Gilani


lets see that list of bidah they have committed oh knowledgeable one.


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Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Allahuakbar501
 
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Quote Allahuakbar501 Replybullet Posted: 09 July 2007 at 2:01pm

the only Sufis you listed were Imam Al Ghazali and Imam abdul Qadir al Gilani, as far as Imam Al-Ghazali goes Just see what Ibn Taimiyah and Imam an-Nawawi said about him and come to think of it I dont even think Imam Abdul Qair al Gilani was a sufi either some Sufis just named the Qardiriyyah after him. Are you a Sufi? and if so you should start following the way of the Salaf and leave Innovated sects alone.

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LivesByTheRiver
 
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Quote LivesByTheRiver Replybullet Posted: 09 July 2007 at 2:54pm

Allahuakbar how do you determine exactly what an innovation is? 

What range of things does this include? 

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Quote LivesByTheRiver Replybullet Posted: 09 July 2007 at 3:03pm
Is a belief for example in the reality of extra terrestrial life considered an innovation since ETs are not mentioned in either the Quran or Hadith?
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Quote LivesByTheRiver Replybullet Posted: 09 July 2007 at 3:07pm
Whats the difference between innovation and newly discovered knowledge about things and how they work? 
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