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Interfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: What is the definition of a prophet? Post Reply Post New Topic
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buddyman
 
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Quote buddyman Replybullet Posted: 10 July 2007 at 9:55am
Please note that the issue revolves around the keeping of God’s commandments. Those who do not have the mark of the beast are described as obedient to those commandments, and the rest suffer the wrath of God. This agrees perfectly with Paul’s statement in Romans 6:16, “Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?”
     The highest allegiance is accorded through the act of obedience. At last, the majority of earth’s inhabitants will accept the authority of an antichrist counterfeit power, in disobedience to God’s great ten commandment laws. Every individual will be on one side or the other. The Bible makes it very clear that life or death revolves around the final decision concerning the beast of Revelation 13.
     Strangely enough, modern theologians have simply ignored the warning message of Revelation 14, relating to the mark of the beast. The interest of multitudes has been destroyed by the influence of pastors who would not take seriously the solemn words of John’s prophecy. Often it is dismissed as a confused, insignificant letter, applying only to a local problem in the early church. For some reason the book called Revelation is counted a sealed book, instead of the obviously revealed truth that its name implies. But please note the promise made to those who search out the truth of this wonderful book, “Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.” Revelation 1:3.
     Before delving into John’s vivid account of that final clash between Christ and Satan, let us take time to examine the contestants in the conflict. When and how did it get started, and how will it end?
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buddyman
 
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Quote buddyman Replybullet Posted: 10 July 2007 at 9:56am
As you can see Andalus, Mohammed did not preach the same message as Jesus did. Mohammed did not inform the Muslim people of the Book of Revelation, did he?
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Andalus
 
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Quote Andalus Replybullet Posted: 10 July 2007 at 11:45am
Originally posted by buddyman

Andalus,

I can see you really haven't read the Old Testament...you're starting to crumble. Not only that you fail to discuss the other prophecies.

This is an example of a missionary who has been called out on their claim and has nothing to offer but a claim that I have not read the OT. This is interesting, since I have provided you with a major point that as of yet you refuse to argue. You ignored by objection to your claims of Isaiah and the virgin birth and you simply re-pasted the same claim. Now, instead of dealing with my point, you to deflect and accuse me of not reading the OT. Obviously I have not only read your OT, but I have provided detailed points regarding a verse found in it. Your lack of substance leads me to conclude that your only knowledge of your NT are the common verses that your faith has superimposed with Christilogical significance. Your inability to reply is evidence of your lack of OT study. Do not accuse me of ignorance when it is you who has failed to provide a single original work that is free from "copy and paste".

As far as my reply to the Isaiah claim: All I need is to show one of the major claims from the NT is false to bring the entire house of cards down. Also, I have give you a second point concerning another prophecy claim that you also elected to ignore. Please choose your favorite prophecy fulfillment, and we can discuss it also.

 

 

As for the prophecies Mohammed supposedly prophesied, try reading the Book of Daniel and you will see that they had already been foretold.

I have read the book of Daniel. I would be happy to debate your interpretation. The Christian interpretation of Daniel is weak within any measure of scholarly standards, and in terms of a reasonable exegesis.

 

Mohammed did not bring the same message as Jesus. He also didn't bring the same message as any of the other prophets in the OT.

Actually, your version of Jesus, through the interpretation of Paul, is a huge "innovation" within the scope of prophetic messages. To say that Prophet Muhammad (saw) did not bring the same message as Jesus is erroneous:

1) Muslims have never claimed that Prophet Muhammad (saw) taught the Christian idea of Jesus being a godman.

2) You are assuming as truth and fact that you know what Jesus taught.

Could you provide an example that shows a glaring violation of the message of Prophet Muhammad (saw) from Moses or Noah or Isaiah?

 

No one will take the time and pour through each verse. You are making "cutting and pasting" as a large part of your discussion. You need to prove what the verses mean.

I cut and paste verses from the bible and then expain. If you want to know, you would read them.

Actually, the problem is that you do not explain. You simply "handwave" your belief. You dump verses from the bible without any argument.

I have provided you with a clear point to the Isaiah virgin birth prophecy claim, the absence of a rational, coherent reply to it is a sign to me that you have never actually understood the passage beyond the Christilogical supposition that has been superimposed on it.

A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
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Andalus
 
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Quote Andalus Replybullet Posted: 10 July 2007 at 11:51am
Originally posted by buddyman

THE BEAST AND HIS BACKGROUND

A Fearful Warning

     The most fearful warning of punishment found anywhere in the Bible is contained in Revelation 14:9, 10: “And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb.”
     This description is so alarming and so very unlike all other verses which deal with God’s character that we almost recoil in horror. But it points clearly to a time when God’s mercy will be withheld from those who have persistently rejected the authority of Heaven. It will be an unparalleled performance on the part of God in His relationship to the human family. For almost 6,000 years, His punishing judgments upon the most wicked men have been tempered with mercy. But now the measure of rebellion reaches a point which makes it necessary for God to intervene and to expose the terrible extent of man’s treason against God’s government.
     Right here we are curious to know more about the sin that provokes God’s strange act of fiery punishment. Notice that the final issue involves a false allegiance to the beast power, so often referred to in Bible prophecy. At last, the world shall stand divided into two great camps: those who worship the true God, and those who worship the beast of Revelation 13. But what issue leads to this massive division of the world’s people? After describing the fate of the false worshipers in Revelation 14:9-11, John has this to say in the very next verse: “Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.” We see here a startling contrast between those who follow the beast and those who follow the Lamb.

The book of revelations is not clear enough to give enough details on who is the beast. Your faith has been hurling this book around, and at each other, for almost 1800 years, and so far, not a single interpretation has been correct. Revelations is poorly written and too ambiguous to be of any use, and its wording is in the context of early Christian persecution by the Rome. It really is that simple.

By the way, according to your theology, Jesus could also be a goat, not a lamb. The Passover offering can be goat, and the Yom Kippur event also used to use a "goat". So maybe revelations is not about Jesus? How do you know?

 

A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
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Andalus
 
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Quote Andalus Replybullet Posted: 10 July 2007 at 11:52am

Originally posted by buddyman

As you can see the Book of Revelation describes a punishment in the presense of the Lamb. We all know the Lamb if Jesus.

Actually "we" all do not know, since he could be a goat?

A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/
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buddyman
 
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Quote buddyman Replybullet Posted: 10 July 2007 at 2:45pm

Strawman argument, some Muslims only claim that a prophecy is about him that is found in the Torah. What is certain, is that Moses did not ever pray to Jesus or teach in his name.

  We know what Moses preached. Did he pray to Jesus? So you're basically saying that Jesus is not God. That is your arguement, right? By theway, why do you resort to childish name calling? There really isn't any need.

As for Isaiah, the word "virgin", means a woman who has not had sexual intercourse, correct? Where do you get your interpretation from?

By the way, you haven't answered some of my questions either....

 

 

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buddyman
 
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Quote buddyman Replybullet Posted: 10 July 2007 at 2:46pm

Quote:

 Didn't the Israelites get angry and ask Moses why God only spoke to him? Yes... So then God told them, ok I'll talk to the people. he told them to be prepared, etc. When they all lined up to talk to God, they couldn't bear it, could they. So god then promised a prophet from amoun their own, correct? Jesus

Your "argument" makes no sense, you are saying that God gave the 10 commandments, and then everyone wanted to talk to God, but could not, so therefore God made a promise to send a prophet?

Do you know remember this part in Exodus?

 

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buddyman
 
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Quote buddyman Replybullet Posted: 10 July 2007 at 2:54pm

This is not a prophecy about Jesus, but an error made by the author of Matthew, which allows us to conclude that the NT is neither "divine" nor "error free".

Isaiah 7:14. What does your version say??? It has nothing to do with Matthew, this is given in the Book of Isaiah.

<quote> The KJV, along with the NIV, translate the Hebrew word "almah" as virgin. Yet, the RSV, JPS (Jewish Publication Society), and Koren Jerusalem Bible translate the same word as young woman. One word translated two different ways, which translation is correct or are both translations correct?

<quote> The Hebrew dictionary translates almah as meaning either a child of marriageable age or as a childless young woman. From this definition, either translation could be correct, since in either case she may or may not be a virgin.

The author says that the Hebrew dictionary translates almah as a child of marriageable age, or as a childless young woman. However, how many Hebrew dictionaries did the author consult? And which one? In either case, let also we consult some.

First we take the Hebrew concordance of Mandelkern. He gives as the meaning of the Hebrew word almah: puella nubilis, virgo matura (Solomon Mandelkern, Konkordantziah laTanach or Veteris Testamenti Concordantiae, Tel Aviv, 1978, p. 881). The translation of puella nubilis is marriageable child; the translation of virgo matura is mature virgin. We see that this dictionary gives as meaning a marriageable child, (of which it is expected in Israel that she is virgin); and it also gives as express meaning a virgin of mature age.

Bottom line Andalus, Jesus existed, he did many miracles. He fullfilled ALL messianic prophecies, and he died on the cross so that you and I could be reconciled to the Father in heaven. Have you ever read Psalms 22?

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