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Yusuf.
 
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Quote Yusuf. Replybullet Topic: more American murders, torture for hire
    Posted: 22 May 2005 at 7:26pm

Assalamu alaikum,

More evidence of American barbarism:

IN U.S. REPORT, BRUTAL DETAILS OF 2 AFGHAN INMATES' DEATHS
Tim Golden, New York Times, 5/20/05
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/20/international/asia/20abuse .html?hp&ex=1116561600&en=8701738ac057aebe&ei=50 94&partner=homepage

Even as the young Afghan man was dying before them, his American jailers
continued to torment him.

The prisoner, a slight, 22-year-old taxi driver known only as Dilawar, was
hauled from his cell at the detention center in Bagram, Afghanistan, at around
2 a.m. to answer questions about a rocket attack on an American base. When he
arrived in the interrogation room, an interpreter who was present said, his
legs were bouncing uncontrollably in the plastic chair and his hands were numb.
He had been chained by the wrists to the top of his cell for much of the
previous four days.

Dilawar was an Afghan farmer and taxi driver who died while in custody of
American troops.

Mr. Dilawar asked for a drink of water, and one of the two interrogators,
Specialist Joshua R. Claus, 21, picked up a large plastic bottle. But first he
punched a hole in the bottom, the interpreter said, so as the prisoner fumbled
weakly with the cap, the water poured out over his orange prison scrubs. The
soldier then grabbed the bottle back and began squirting the water forcefully
into Mr. Dilawar's face.

"Come on, drink!" the interpreter said Specialist Claus had shouted, as the
prisoner gagged on the spray. "Drink!"

At the interrogators' behest, a guard tried to force the young man to his
knees.
But his legs, which had been pummeled by guards for several days, could no
longer bend. An interrogator told Mr. Dilawar that he could see a doctor after
they finished with him. When he was finally sent back to his cell, though, the
guards were instructed only to chain the prisoner back to the ceiling.

"Leave him up," one of the guards quoted Specialist Claus as saying.

Several hours passed before an emergency room doctor finally saw Mr. Dilawar.
By
then he was dead, his body beginning to stiffen. It would be many months before
Army investigators learned a final horrific detail: Most of the interrogators
had believed Mr. Dilawar was an innocent man who simply drove his taxi past the
American base at the wrong time.

The story of Mr. Dilawar's brutal death at the Bagram Collection Point - and
that of another detainee, Habibullah, who died there six days earlier in
December 2002 - emerge from a nearly 2,000-page confidential file of the Army's
criminal investigation into the case, a copy of which was obtained by The New
York Times. (MORE)

ALSO SEE:

DEFENSE: DOCTORS CORROBORATE TORTURE CLAIMS IN TERROR CASE
Matthew Barakat, Associated Press, 5/19/05
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/20050519-1325-saudi detainee-bushplot.html

ALEXANDRIA, Va. Two doctors who examined a Virginia man accused of joining
al-Qaeda and plotting to assassinate President Bush have concluded that he was
tortured while in Saudi custody, according to defense lawyers.

The torture resulted in Ahmed Omar Abu Ali giving a false confession to Saudi
authorities, according to the lawyers, who are seeking to have the statement
thrown out.

"The physical and psychological abuse that Abu Ali suffered over a two-year
period critically impaired his capacity for self-determination and overcame his
will," wrote defense lawyer Ashraf Nubani. "It resulted in him making
involuntary, false statements to alleviate his suffering and appease his
interrogators."

Federal prosecutors have consistently denied that Abu Ali was tortured.

Nubani also accused the U.S. government of complicity in the Saudis' alleged
torture of Abu Ali.

The court filings do not include details of the doctors' examinations of Abu
Ali, who has said he has the scars on his back as proof of whippings.

But a defense motion indicates that the doctors hired by the defense Allen
Keller, a professor at New York University and director of the Bellevue/NYU
Program for Survivors of Torture; and Lynne Gaby, a psychiatrist at George
Washington University concluded that Abu Ali had been physically and
psychologically tortured.

Abu Ali, 24, of Falls Church, is accused of joining al-Qaeda while attending
college in Saudi Arabia in 2001. The government contends that he discussed
numerous possible attacks, including plans to assassinate Bush or members of
Congress.


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kim!
 
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Quote kim! Replybullet Posted: 22 May 2005 at 8:49pm

I find it absolutely astounding that the US can complain to the UK press about publishing photos of Saddam Hussein in his underwear (because it's "against the Geneva convention") , but their own people torture and kill other prisoners in many countries round the world.

 

Murderous hypocrites.

 

Sorry, esp. to Patty, you appear to still have faith in your homeland, I respect you, but your government, your military and so many things about your country SUCK.

Kim...



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Patty
 
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Quote Patty Replybullet Posted: 23 May 2005 at 9:29am

Sorry, esp. to Patty, you appear to still have faith in your homeland, I respect you, but your government, your military and so many things about your country SUCK.

Kim...


That's okay Kim.  I'm used to it.  But I do wish you could visit here and see first hand what the majority of Americans, the "heart" of America are really like.  There are many, many good Americans.  Just as there are many good people from, well, everywhere in the world.  I believe as Anne Frank believed in WWII...."in spite of everything, most people are basically good."

Nice to hear from you again.....been a looonnnnng time!

Patty

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Quote kim! Replybullet Posted: 23 May 2005 at 4:59pm

I know there are good Americans, some of them are my friends! but I wish they could get their acts into gear and get into power.

I'm currently reading a book called "1968" by Mark Kurlansky. Just last night I read about protests in the US and how American citizens back then seemed to know and care more about the world at large. Possibly because many of the protests eminated from the universities.

People seemed to have so much hope for the future then and authority was not taken seriously. (a very sensible idea).

Shame all the ideals seem to have died off.

And I KNOW there were people who demonstrated about this current Iraq invasion in the US, but they're so powerless now, we rarely hear about it.   

Kim...

 

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Patty
 
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Quote Patty Replybullet Posted: 23 May 2005 at 5:41pm

I agree that we (all of us) need many changes.  There has been so much hurt, anger, death, and pain on all sides.  It seems to me there shouldn't even be "sides".  We should somehow come together as one.  Certainly I'm not the one with the answers.  My heart aches for the Iraqi people, but not the terrorists.  They are a different breed.  Iraqi's have suffered far too much, as have the fine people of Afghanistan and many African people.  Americans have also suffered.  We have stood by helpless and watched as journalists told us about our fellow countrymen being beheaded.  We listened to all the gory details.  We have sobbed over the deaths of our young military men and women who came home in a body bag. None of this is right.  We really have to find a way to come together and put our differences aside.  I truly believe God loves all of us.  I also feel He's very much saddened by what He sees happening around the world because of the sinful actions of His children.  There is so much I just don't understand.  I wish someone could explain to me why Muslims don't get along and kill each other.  What is the reason for this?  I honestly don't know why this is happening.

I wish I had the answers.  I pray several times a day, and I try to treat ALL people with respect.  This seems to be the best I can do at this time. 

Peace Will Come,

Patty

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Quote ummziba Replybullet Posted: 24 May 2005 at 6:33am

Assalamu alaikum,

I read the report in the New York Times and watched the video report by Tim Golden on the deaths at Bagram.  This is all such disturbing stuff.  I was brought to tears listening to the story of Dilawar - I have a 22 year old son - I can't imagine anyone doing that to anyone's son.

Reading about this stuff is so disturbing, but we all must know what is going on - "I bear witness".  On the Judgement Day we will want to be able to answer that we did pay attention to what others suffered.

Patty, you say, "I wish someone could explain to me why Muslims don't get along and kill each other.  What is the reason for this?"  Really, you should just take out the word Muslim and insert the words human beings and your question would be valid.  Look at history, look at the world around you - all kinds of human beings don't get along and kill each other.

The reasons?  We could write for a year and not come up with a complete list.  Try to keep in mind that the life of this world is fleeting.  It is a test from Allah to determine our status in the Afterlife.

There is a verse in the Qur'an (that I can't find just now), that says something to the effect of: if you kill one person it is as if you have killed all humanity.  There are umpteen verses in the Qur'an that tell us not to kill, to only fight in self defense and to only kill to defend ourselves.  It is simply wrong to assume that Muslims can't get along and kill each other.  Of course, it happens, as it also happens among all peoples.

Peace, ummziba.

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but your words...they break my soul ~
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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 24 May 2005 at 8:53am

Patty

Isn't it something terribly American to say: My heart aches for the Iraqi people, but not the terrorists. ?

Could you please tell me who created what you call terrorists? And is it possible that these people you call terrorists are in fact fighting against occupation?

I have all the sympathy for your boys in bodybags? But did they have any right to be there in the first place?

As long as the US remains there it WILL NOT STOP. I am an Afghan. I know my people far far better that all the uglies in your admin. Iraqis and Afghans just DO NOT LIKE BEING OCCUPIED. We have never been occupied in the past 3,000 years. We will not be occupied now - specially by a third rate immoral people who worship nothing but the dollar.

Get your boys out of there. I have been telling that to a lot of your people in the Pond for the past 2 and a half years. The place will become peaceful once the Jinxed Touch of US ends there.

Let me assure you teher are no terrorists. We are fighting a war against US occupation . . . and your President is still telling you fibs.

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Yusuf.
 
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Quote Yusuf. Replybullet Posted: 24 May 2005 at 9:32am
Originally posted by Patty

 I wish someone could explain to me why Muslims don't get along and kill each other.  What is the reason for this?

I wish americans would stop torturing and killing Muslims, as described in the beginning of this thread. What is the reason for that?

Your comment is just a subconscious justification for your own government's barbarism.



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