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Prophets - Jesus
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Prophets - Jesus
Message Icon Topic: Zionist: We Killed Jesus and We’re proud Post Reply Post New Topic
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robin
 
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Quote robin Replybullet Posted: 12 July 2008 at 10:49am
Originally posted by mariyah

Believer, you will have to bring forward your witnesses.
So were you there when constantine and his cronies rewrote the Scriptures and gave Jesus  (pbuh) the "divine status" that was so common in the Roman pagan practices and beliefs? (third century common era council of nicea) and have you read Exodus 20, that states God is one God and you shall not bow to any other or make gods before him?
Jesus will return, and he and the Madhi (pbuh) will be the witnesses to the commencement of the Last Day, the Day of judgement.
Jesus indeed lives, but not as you think.
 
Constantine etc. did not rewrite the scriptures, they add some wrong ideas etc. which have been found and removed!  See the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures
 
True the church do follow pagan ideas that is because they do not understand or believe the scriptures they on such matters, but what they do does not alter the Bible in any way!
 
 
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thomasd
 
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Quote thomasd Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2008 at 8:30am
Originally posted by robin

Constantine etc. did not rewrite the scriptures, they add some wrong ideas etc. which have been found and removed!  See the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures
 
True the church do follow pagan ideas that is because they do not understand or believe the scriptures they on such matters, but what they do does not alter the Bible in any way!


It's also because the original Christian missionaries to the Germanic and Celtic tribes made a huge effort to bridge the cultural gap and spread God's word. to do this, they repurposed many pagan festivals into Christian ones, the side effect of this being that various pagan traditions carried over into the celebration of Christian holidays, and then after Rome was sacked, the Irish became the missionaries and carried these traditions back into the rest of Europe. However to say that they rewrote scripture shows a lack of knowledge of European history. the Irish monks were some of the most meticulous scribes in history, and took immense pride in their work. Anyone who doubts this should spend some time reading about the Lindisfarne gospels.


Edited by thomasd - 14 July 2008 at 8:31am
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minuteman
 
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Quote minuteman Replybullet Posted: 17 July 2008 at 3:09am
Originally posted by believer

No that is not true, not one said that Jesus had not died physically on the cross and ressurect from the dead!

All agreed on the fact of His death and ressurection!!
 
  Believer, please understand that it was not the right occasion to say that Jesus was still alive. They would have broken his legs and killed him. Please try to think over it. Nobody could utter such a word.
 
 Even after his getting up in the tomb and walking away on his two legs, nobody could say (openly) that Jesus was alive. It would have been a crime to say such thing and more trouble for Jesus and his followers.
 
 Later when Jesus departed from the area, it was found best to say that he had gone up to the father. That was so that nobody would go looking for him. I hope I have not commented badly on the situation available at that place and time.
 
 Please put yourself in that place and time and tell us "would you say that jesus was still alive?" when he appeared to be dead.


Edited by minuteman - 17 July 2008 at 3:10am
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Quote thomasd Replybullet Posted: 19 July 2008 at 1:13pm
Originally posted by minuteman


Believer, please understand that it was not the right occasion to say that Jesus was still alive. They would have broken his legs and killed him. Please try to think over it. Nobody could utter such a word.

the Romans stabbed him with a spear before taking him off the cross to ensure he was dead. Do you know anything about how crucifying someone works? it is not possible for a human to survive that for a day. they stick nails (think railroad spikes)
through your wrists, and through both ankles together and let you just hang there. the full weight of your body pulls down and your ribs pull up towards your shoulders suffocating you. to alleviate the suffocation, you can pull yourself up on the nails on your wrists until they hurt too much or your shoulders are too tired to hold you up, at which point you get to sag back down and suffocate some more.

 

 Even after his getting up in the tomb and walking away on his two legs, nobody could say (openly) that Jesus was alive. It would have been a crime to say such thing and more trouble for Jesus and his followers.

 

 Later when Jesus departed from the area, it was found best to say that he had gone up to the father. That was so that nobody would go looking for him. I hope I have not commented badly on the situation available at that place and time.

 

more than 500 witnesses attested to seeing him walking around in the weeks following his resurrection. Not only that, the curtain separating the holy of holies from the rest of the synagogue tore itself in half at the moment of his death, and an earthquake shook the ground. The 3 hour long darkness accompanying his death was attested to by non-Christian, non-Jewish writers as far away as Egypt, and there has been shown to have been no eclipse on that day.
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Quote believer Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2008 at 5:58pm
 
 
Interesting way of thinking about the torn Temple curtain.

"And when I saw the Temple curtain torn, as a Jewish father tears his garment at the death of his son, I would have thought of our Father in heaven. Mishna Shekalim tells us that the curtain was “a handbreadth thick.” Our Father in heaven had torn His garment. At that moment I would have seen my own soul in the empty Holy of Holies, closed my eyes, and prayed, “My God, my God, why have I forsaken you?"

John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Quote minuteman Replybullet Posted: 08 August 2008 at 4:57am
 
 Thomasd said:
 
 the Romans stabbed him with a spear before taking him off the cross to ensure he was dead. Do you know anything about how crucifying someone works? it is not possible for a human to survive that for a day. they stick nails (think railroad spikes)
through your wrists, and through both ankles together and let you just hang there. the full weight of your body pulls down and your ribs pull up towards your shoulders suffocating you. to alleviate the suffocation, you can pull yourself up on the nails on your wrists until they hurt too much or your shoulders are too tired to hold you up, at which point you get to sag back down and suffocate some more.
 
 Dear thomasd, I know how painful it is to be on the cross. Remeber that Jesus was on the cross for not more than a few hours on Friday afternoon. His body was brought down wellbefor esunset because it was a big Sabath from the evening. The other two thieves bodies also were brought down.
 
 Jesus was a good healthy young man of 33 years. The thieves were alive when brought down. So they broke their legs. Butthe legs of Jesus were not broken out of respect and because people said that he had suffered much and had died. No need to break the legs.
 
 The senior soldier was understanding all things.  Otherwise, being a Roman and non Jew, why would he say "Oh, He was a right man of God". Pilate had done all to protect Jesus as much as possible. The soldier (Centurian) belonged to Pilate.
 
 Also, it i known that as another soldier pierced the body of Jesus, blood and water gushed out.  Blood does not gush out from the body of a dead man. That also proves that Jesus was alive when brought down from the cross and his heart was beating feebly.
 
 How happy were the special persons (Friends of Jesus) when they knew that he was alive !  They immediately took charge of his body and took away the body to a safe place underground, room like tomb and looke dafter him. There was no enemy there and no fear to do what they liked.
 
 Joseph of Armithea ahd requested Pilate to hand over the body. Pilate was surprised. Pilate said, "Has he died so quickly?" It is all in the bible.
 
 Then it is written in the bible that Jesus walked about carefully. He did not present himself (show himself) to any of the offcials or to the wicked generation whom Jesus had promised to show the miracle or he sign of the prophet Jonas. He only met his close friends and gave them the last bit of good news and guidance.
 
 Please do not mind. It is mostly from the bible NT. The Quran says that the Jews could not kill Jesus any way. But it is a great miracle and the truth of the Quran that It says " The Jews and the christians will keep on believing that they killed Jesus (Quran 4:157).
 
The Jews believe that they killed Jesus on the cross. The christians also believe that Jesus was killed on the cross. So the Quran has told the truth. Proof is even today. That was related to the topic.

 

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Quote believer Replybullet Posted: 10 August 2008 at 12:34pm

http://www.new-life.net/crucify2.htm

To confirm that a victim was dead, the Romans inflicted a spear wound through the right side of the heart. When pierced, a sudden flow of blood and water came from Jesus' body . The medical significance of the blood and water has been a matter of debate. One theory states that Jesus died of a massive myocardial infarction, in which the heart ruptured (Bergsma) which may have resulted from His falling while carrying the cross (Ball). Another theory states that Jesus' heart was surrounded by fluid in the pericardium, which constricted the heart and caused death (Davis). The physical stresses of crucifixion may have produced a fatal cardiac arrhythmia (Johnson).

The stated order of "blood and water" may not necessarily indicate the order of appearance, but rather the relative prominence of each fluid. In this case, a spear through the right side of the heart would allow the pleural fluid (fluid built up in the lungs) to escape first, followed by a flow of blood from the wall of the right ventricle (Edwards). The important fact is that the medical evidence supports that Jesus did die a physical death.

 
The Gospel tells us that blood and water came forth from the wound. The doctors tell us that the lance in all probability pierced our Lord's right lung and then His heart, and the water which came forth was fluid from the lungs and heart. The accumulation of this fluid is normal in cases of heart failure and extreme blood loss. The lance thrust alone would have been fatal.
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Quote minuteman Replybullet Posted: 10 August 2008 at 8:18pm
 
 Believer, do you believe that pearcing with a spear caused the death of Jesus. I ask because it is being mentioned again and again. I do not believe it to be so.
 
 Please tell me if the spear had anything hand in causing the death of Jesus? Welcome.
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