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seekshidayath
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Quote seekshidayath Replybullet Posted: 15 October 2009 at 5:38am
Originally posted by naren_143


I would want to know what do you think we can do to make India a better place to live.

 
Hello Naren,
 
This is an extract from a lecture. I do firmly hold these views. Also inserted mine, in the midst.
 
 
It is not for human beings to claim being right or wrong as it leads to disturbances and breach of peace. Therefore these matters should be left for God to decide. The differences of laws and ways of life should not become the cause of disharmony and enmity.  The test is to live in peace and harmony with each other, which is the will of God.  Furthermore, God directs us to learn to live with these differences and compete with each other only in our acts of goodness, as that is what will bring everyone together. The Qur’ân mandates a peaceful co-existence.  It is the best way to resolve inter-religious and inter-cultural conflicts and to promote acceptance of the ‘religious and cultural other’ with dignity and grace.
 
The only immediately available answer is intolerance and the lack of respect for diversity. Intolerance causes economic injustice, political double standards and social oppression. Intolerance is on the increase and it is killing human beings on a massive scale, as we all witness. Intolerance raises many moral as well as political and economic questions. Intolerance is a major threat to peace and security. Hope you totally agree with me here.
 
Here we need interfaith relations and dialogues. Of course we have core differences in our religions but we must try to understand each other. As we learn about our own faith traditions and communities, we should also learn about others. By understanding we learn the areas of commonalities as well as differences.So did i say, we will go thru the similarities between our religions. We can learn the nature of differences and the extent of differences. We must look what kind dialogues could be of value, and what issues are most in need of respectful dialogue in these times.
 
What concerns for the well-being of others should drive our efforts to reach common ground for action.This is what Qur'an teaches us. Each group must encourage and facilitate shared responsibility to create a more sensitive and welcoming environment for our diverse groups.
 
It is, therefore, necessary to promote the spirit of dialogue among people of different faiths. The first requirement of the spirit of dialogue is to know the ‘other’ in faith. No dialogue can ever be successful if this spirit does not prevail.

Islam teaches Muslims to live in peace with others, including religious, linguistic, racial or national other. The Qur’anic verses like 5:48 or 4:35 or 22:40 or 30:22 or 6:109 are very important in this respect. In fact the verse 5:48 throws challenge to us to live with plurality of faith and laws and the Qur’anic emphasis is on excelling the other in good deeds and not competing with the other in religious rituals or ways of worshipping. Thus Qur’an accepts diversity as given, as the Will of Allah rather than rejecting it.
 
Thus unity and sense of inclusiveness can be promoted only by promoting the spirit of dialogue and spirit of tolerance. This would head India towards peace. This is what i think can forward India towards peace. What do you say ?
 
 


Edited by seekshidayath - 15 October 2009 at 5:39am
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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Quote naren_143 Replybullet Posted: 17 October 2009 at 4:48am
Hi again Seekshidayath after a long time!

The post has been beautifully written. Thank you.

Every religion under the sun mandates peaceful co-existence. We are lucky to be born into a tolerant civilization in a secular country. Indians on the whole have been largely tolerant despite being culturally, linguistically and religiously diverse.

I don't see intolerance or religious conflicts to be the problem of our backwardness as it does not exist on a large scale. There have been incidents but not widespread. Religion is quite secondary in the context of the development of India as it is secular. Just look at the government... our Prime Minister is a Sikh, our President is a Hindu, our Vice-President is a Muslim, our Defence Minister is a Christian, Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu (M. Karunanidhi) is an Atheist, former Chief Minister of Andhra Pradesh (Y.S. Rajashekhar Reddy) was a Christian and the list goes on...

So I feel religion, caste etc. aren't a hindrance for our growth in India (e.g. Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh is a Dalit).

Finally I see India to be peaceful even when it is not compared to its neighbours. I see the major impediment to our progress is corruption. And religion has nothing to do with our development. That is what I feel.

I don't have a plan or strategy to abolish it, but I am looking for a case to end all cases.Smile

Have a nice time.

Happy Diwali!
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seekshidayath
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Quote seekshidayath Replybullet Posted: 22 October 2009 at 10:26pm


Hello Naren,

We can realise the beauty of the post, when we practice it . What do you say !

When i viewed India, thru your explanation, its indeed beautiful. There's a saying in urdu, which means, a cat closes its eyes, when faces dangers. By closing eyes, it feels that the danger is gone. So is your explanation.

Extremists be it of any religion, are very serious threat to our nation. What shud i do of that development, when we do not live in peace. I feel, instead of looking at the factors that "DEVELOP" India, let's look at the measures that may bring peace. Let's try to pluck these 'weeds" of our society.

As said, India is beautifully potrayed by you. All these ministers, of different religions, holding different posts. We also have an extremist in India, whose hands are stained with blood of innocent lives! He has been elected and re-elected. This is the condition of our country.We all know very well, that he is inhuman {i used the word inhuman, b.cos he does n't feel guilty of what he has done}. When am to introduce him, in the list of your introduction, i shall not state him as CM who's hindu, i would state that "he is anti-muslim, Chief Minister".

Most of the top leaders, are involved in scams. They ate our money ! Few leaders make anti-islamic speeches in pulic. Who dares to arrest Bal Thackeray ! Mumbai, will be burnt if he is touched ! And this Praveen Thogadia ! he is very much bothered in all his speeches filled with hatred for muslims even today !

You want a common Indian to let go all these things ! I feel its duty of every youngster of India to stand up, make aware of these bugs to the society, so that they don't get carried away. Else, many Varun Gandhis are made in the society.

Yes, i do agree that corruption is the biggest problem of our society. Not a file moves with out corruption. In Islam its a sin. Prophet Muhammad {pbuh} said that its forbidden to either take or corrupt people. Its a cancer of our society. Whta do you think that shall remove it !

In my opinion, its only fear of God that shall abstain us. Islam speaks alot about it. {Even mots of the muslims in India, are actively involved in corruption}. There's need to revive fear of God in their hearts. That shall automatically stop them. Many times my father confronts the situation that he has to give money to get the work over. {He does social works alot, like helping the old to get their pensions, widows and the needy}. And govt offices don't move a file without bribery. Here i clash my father's view that why shud we give them bribe, while its our right! --- ANyways thats going long. But final word is Naren, its important that people learn what their religion holds. Understand its essence and practice it. Fear of God shall help in harmonising a society.

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Edited by seekshidayath - 22 October 2009 at 10:28pm
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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Quote naren_143 Replybullet Posted: 24 October 2009 at 10:50am
Greetings to Seekshidayath!

Why to directly attack all of Hindus for what a few people have done. That urdu saying does not definitely hold good in our context. If those communal people have any hold over the communities, then they would be ruling the country. Bal Thakaray lost the elections, Varun Gandhi lost, Praveen Tagodia, never heard of him. No one even heeds to what Varun Gandhi or even Rahul Gandhi says. Everyone follows his own heart. The perpetrator is a human being. We give him a religion for our own gratification.

We have freedom of speech in India. So those people say what they want. Weren't you making fun of Hindus in one of your posts? That is freedom of speech.

Religion is a very complex thing. Few understand it. And those who understand it, just waste time thinking of others' religion and comparing them to their own. Thus arriving at the differences, from which confusion ensues. The confusion is because a belief cannot be proven until we believe it ourselves. So we try to point out the negatives in others' religions for our gratification and end up abusing others. So I don't take religion seriously though I practice it.

Have a nice time.
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seekshidayath
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Quote seekshidayath Replybullet Posted: 27 October 2009 at 2:20am
 

Indian government respects religious freedom, but some states found wanting: US

Tue, Oct 27 08:52 AM

Washington, Oct 27 (IANS) A US government report gave top rating to the Indian government for doing its best to protect religious freedom, but criticised some state and local governments for imposing limits on this freedom.

'The National Government generally respected religious freedom in practice; however, some state and local governments imposed limits on this freedom,' the State Department said Monday in its Congressionally mandated annual report on International Religions Freedom.

'Although the vast majority of citizens of every religious group lived in peaceful coexistence, some organized societal attacks against minority religious groups occurred,' the report said alleging 'the state police and enforcement agencies often did not act swiftly to effectively counter such attacks.'

Releasing the report covering 198 countries, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton hoped it 'will encourage existing religious freedom movements around the world and promote dialogue among governments and within societies.'

The report said the phrase 'generally respected' signifies that the government attempted to protect religious freedom in the fullest sense and was 'thus the highest level of respect for religious freedom assigned' by it.

Religious extremists, it noted, committed numerous terrorist attacks throughout India, including the November 2008 attacks in Mumbai that targeted luxury hotels, a crowded railway station, a Jewish centre, a hospital, and restaurants.

The report noted 40 persons died and 134 were injured as 'violence erupted in August 2008 in Orissa after individuals affiliated with left-wing Maoist extremists killed a Hindu religious leader in Kandhamal, one of the country's poorest districts.'

'Although most victims were Christians, the underlying causes that led to the violence have complex ethnic, economic, religious, and political roots related to land ownership and government-reserved employment and educational benefits,' it said.

Numerous cases were in the courts, including cases in connection with the 2002 Gujarat violence, the 1984 anti-Sikh riots, and more recent attacks against Christians, the State Department report noted.

But 'some extremists continued to view ineffective investigation and prosecution of attacks as a signal that they could commit such violence with impunity.'

'In general, India's democratic system, open society, independent legal institutions, vibrant civil society, and press all provided mechanisms to address violations of religious freedom when they did occur,' the report said.

Listing 'improvements and positive developments' in the year ended June 30, the report said, 'In India, 'Government officials responded to a number of new and previous violent events, helping to prevent communal violence and providing relief and rehabilitation packages for victims and their families.'

'Efforts at ecumenical understanding brought religious leaders together to defuse religious tensions,' it said noting, 'in the aftermath of the November 2008 Mumbai terrorist strikes, religious leaders of all communities condemned the attacks and issued statements to maintain communal harmony.'

 

(Arun Kumar can be contacted at arun.kumar@ians. in)

 
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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Quote seekshidayath Replybullet Posted: 28 October 2009 at 6:11am
Originally posted by naren_143

 
Hello Naren,
 
Hope you are doing well.

Why to directly attack all of Hindus for what a few people have done.
 
Did i attack all the hindus ? As said, extremists of any religion are threat to our country. I named few extremists to you. Secondly, i tried to show you that how these extremists are encouraged in our country that they are elected and re-elected.
 
That urdu saying does not definitely hold good in our context.
 
Ok. Actually, i thought to show you that all that you showed, is just what we say in - {dil behlanay wali bathein hai} Just to comfort ourselves. And the other face is different, as showed you in that post
 
 
 If those communal people have any hold over the communities, then they would be ruling the country.
 
Ruling ! Is Narendra Modi not ruling Gujrat ! Did  BJP govt not rule for years, soon after demolishing Babri Masjid ?  How many communal riots not occur in our country after the Babri Masjid was demolished ? Immediately in the next elections, did BJP not come into power ?
 
 
Bal Thakaray lost the elections,
 
Bal Thakeray, did not contest at all. I guess you are talking of his party - Shiv Sena. Yes, it did loose, and we all know the reason very well. It was because of MNS, a party set up by the nephew of Bal Thackeray { both are fishes of same pond}. And MNS, did gain many seats. Its the same. It does n't matter for me, if shiv sena wins or MNS. Will you as an Indian encourage him, to beat away biharis or other Indians from Maharastra since they are non-Marati people, though Indian ? Certainly, a true Indian says, "NO", to it. But how cud this person win so many seats ? Does it not show that people are with him. He cud win hearts of those people ? To great extent is he not responsible to sow such seed of hatred their heats ? Being an Indian, we would again seggregate ourselves, as Marati, non-marati, bihari --- what not !
 
 
Varun Gandhi lost,
 
Varun Gandhi won by 2.81 lakhs of votes, my friend. If i share his speech here, that would cause tremor, esp pakistani people as they are urdu speakers. Anyways, his win, does it not show, how many people support him , his ideas, his thoughts, his hatred towards muslims ?
 
 
 
Praveen Tagodia, never heard of him.
 
You are joking , is n't it ? Smile
 
Just google search. He is very well in media for his hatred towards muslims. You may get to listen his speeches over youtube.
 
 
 No one even heeds to what Varun Gandhi or even Rahul Gandhi says. Everyone follows his own heart. The perpetrator is a human being. We give him a religion for our own gratification.
 
Hearts are changed by words and speeches, my friend.

We have freedom of speech in India.
 
Just because Azharuddin, {Cricket captain of India then, who was charged of fixing matches etc} said, that since he was a muslim, he is targeted. He used his freedom of speech. Then why did Bal Thackeray demand an apology from him ? When he vomits all his hatred towards muslims, its permissible --- when you do it its lawful --- Anyways, Naren i don't deny that we don't have freedom of speech. I am proud of it to say that its freedom of speech in India, thats letting me to express.
 
 
 Weren't you making fun of Hindus in one of your posts? That is freedom of speech.
 
Can u kindly highlight those lines where am making fun of hindus. If i find so, i shall immediately apologise.Its wrong in Islam to laugh or make fun of else's religion.  I attacked over extremists of our country, not anyone's religion. I do hold hindus as well , in my lists of friends.

Religion is a very complex thing. Few understand it. And those who understand it, just waste time thinking of others' religion and comparing them to their own. Thus arriving at the differences, from which confusion ensues. The confusion is because a belief cannot be proven until we believe it ourselves. So we try to point out the negatives in others' religions for our gratification and end up abusing others. So I don't take religion seriously though I practice it.
 
Those were your views, Naren.  I feel its religion that bridges the gap between us. Study of similarities between religions shall help us a lot. My friendship bond with my classmates, has strengthened thru this study.  We don;t get till the point that we abuse each other. Anyways.
 
i don't have any personal grudge against you. So hope you won't mind for the differences on our opinions.


Have a nice time.

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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Quote seekshidayath Replybullet Posted: 28 October 2009 at 6:13am
 
And yes Naren, it was all communal riots done by Modi. Today US, Oman and many other coutries are stopping him from visiting their countries. Does this not hinder our country's development ?
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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Quote seekshidayath Replybullet Posted: 28 October 2009 at 10:32am

 

Batla and post-Batla incidents in Azamgarh were planned years ago: rights activists

Submitted by admin3 on 28 October 2009 - 9:59pm.

By Mumtaz Alam Falahi, TwoCircles.net,

On the first anniversary of Batla House encounter, two young Azamgarh human rights activists -- from two different religions – recall the post-encounter incidents in their district. Neither Batla nor post-Batla incidents were accidents, rather the results of well-thought out politically motivated conspiracy hatched out years ago, Rajiv Yadav and Tariq Shafique tell Mumtaz Alam Falahi of TwoCircles.net

Was post-Batla incidents in Azamgarh were planned or just accident?

Rajiv Yadav: It was not an accident. It was a well-thought out politically motivated conspiracy hatched and execution of which began a year ago – coincidentally a year before the Lok Sabha elections. The post-Batla situation in Azamgarh and eastern UP was used by certain political parties. And this was not new. Gujarat and UP itself have witnessed such political conspiracies. Several encounters were staged in Gujarat just before elections. As all encounters were said to be carried out to save Narendra Modi, he got the dividends in elections. Same has happened in UP where many encounters took place in the name of protecting Mayawati. What happened in Azamgarh post-Batla was planned and being executed gradually for the last 10 years.

Why conspiracy against Azamgarh Muslims?

Rajiv Yadav: In the last one decade or so, the standard of living of Muslims in Azamgarh rose up, and big houses and madrasas came up. This was because of the affluence brought to the district by local Muslims living abroad mainly in the Middle East (in thousands). The local Muslims’ affluence was projected as the direct fruit of terrorism in which they are alleged to be involved. Then Batla House was executed and scores of people, mostly young and educated, were picked or arrested from Azamgarh and outside. Azamgarh was presented as a hub of terrorism.

Political parties and media wanted to show that Muslims in India are not merely assisting terror outfits working from foreign land but also hatching and executing terror attacks in the country.

Post-Batla, how many people were arrested from Azamgarh in connection with terror cases?

Tariq Shafique: Of 18 persons only one was arrested from Azamgarh. All the 17 people have been arrested from some other districts – at railway station, outside railway station or sometimes in trains. Only Hakeem Tariq was arrested in 2007 in Azamgarh.

According to charge sheets, 11 people are missing. There is no information about them.

Are people still living in fear in Azamgarh or the situation has changed?

Tariq Shafique: There is very slight improvement in the situation in the district. People still fear while venturing out. They fear that they may be picked. I fear whether I would reach home.

Every year more than 10,000 students would go out of town to get higher education. Bu this year only about 2000-2500 could go out. They fear they may be picked. Another problem they are facing is that they are not getting accommodation as they belong to Azamgarh. They are facing the situation in Delhi, Mumbai, Bangalore and other cities.

About two dozen youths from Azamgarh are in jails facing multiple terror charges with charge sheets in several thousand pages and witnesses in hundreds. As human rights activist are you sure the cases will reach natural conclusion?

Tariq Shafique: We have no option but to hope for justice. What is disturbing is that these accused are being tortured and denied of basic human and civil rights even in jails. On the day of Eid this year, the Muslim inmates were beaten up in Jaipur jail and not allowed to offer Eid prayers. Similar atrocities were meted out to the prisoners in Sabarmati Jail in March 2009. They were also not allowed to offer Eid prayers. The jail authorities have also banned letters in Urdu.

How do you see the experiment of Ulema Council which got about 2.5 lakh votes in the last Lok Sabha elections?

Rajiv Yadav: Ulema Council was created by some other political party. While Peace Party was created in Trai region of UP, Ulema Council in Azamgarh region. And this is clear from the rise of Congress in these areas after several decades that these two are politically sponsored parties.

Tariq Shafique: Muslims had joined and supported Ulema Council not on political issues but actually they joined the movement on the Batla House encounter. Now the Ulema Council has wrapped up the movement and thus Muslims have gone away from it. Ulema Council got everything – money, fame, honor -- from Batla House but Batla House victims got nothing from the Council. Today Batla House has become a secondary issue for the Council, and the murder of their man by Ramakant Yadav supporters has become the top issue.

When they started the movement a lot of people including rights activists had joined them but as soon as they went political, people went away from them. And media also started to ignore the Batla issue.

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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