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Message Icon Topic: Shenanigans over Quran desecration Post Reply Post New Topic
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kisan
 
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Quote kisan Replybullet Posted: 04 June 2005 at 2:16am

       Obviously you were referring to the hadith: “When the tribe of Bani Quraiza was ready to accept Sad's judgment, Allah's Apostle sent for Sad who was near to him. Sad came, riding a donkey and when he came near, Allah's Apostle said (to the Ansar), "Stand up for your leader." Then Sad came and sat beside Allah's Apostle who said to him. "These people are ready to accept your judgment." Sad said, "I give the judgment that their warriors should be killed and their children and women should be taken as prisoners." The Prophet then remarked, "O Sad! You have judged amongst them with (or similar to) the judgment of the King Allah." (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 280). Before we make any comments based on this hadith, we should take certain factors into consideration. We should remember this incident took place 1500 years ago. We should also consider what kind of life was the Prophet and his people were leading. Under those conditions, what would you do if you were in Sad’s shoes? Probably, you may consider doing what the US is doing with the Afghan and Iraqi detainees (But these Afghan and Iraqi prisoners are not Prisoners of War). So, Sad should have decided to keep them in a detention camp? Then they had to feed them, but could humiliate them and torture them? Was it really what was expected of Muslims? How could they run a detention camp? So we know that it was not possible. Then what would have been the next best option? Keep them as guests? But remember, the Prophet and his followers had occasions when they had to go without food for days! Based on the prevailing conditions of those days, the prisoners would have been sold as slaves. Do you think they would have preferred that? I am sure they would have preferred to die with dignity. Not only that, you know that Islam is against slavery. So, do you still find fault with Sad’s judgment?

Obviously you didn't read the link. It's simple you click on it with the mouse and it takes you to an article.

Anyhow, yes Muhammad and his followers killed the men from Banu Quraiza and enslaved their women and children.

Then you have the lack of ethics to claim Islam is against slavery. Islam institutionalised slavery. Muhammad and Aisha had slaves.

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Silas/slavery.htm

Quote:

33:50 - "Prophet, We have made lawful to you the wives to whom you have granted dowries and the slave girls whom God has given you as booty."

Sahih Bukhari: (by the way you know that Sahih means truthful in Arabic. This account amongst hundreds more highlight slavery in practice by Islams prophet and followers)

Vol. 5-#637     Narrated Buraida:  The prophet sent Ali to Khalid to bring the Khumus ([one fifth] of the booty) and I hated Ali, and Ali had taken a bath (after a sexual act with a slave girl from the Khumus).  I said to Khalid, "Don't you see this (i.e. Ali)?"  When we reached the prophet I mentioned that to him.  He said, "O Buraida!  Do you hate Ali?"  I said, "Yes"  He said, "Do you hate him, for he deserves more than that from the Khumus."

You have zero honesty and debating with you is a waste of time. But still for others the evidence is there for those with open-minds.

Still that being said we see that the so called Holy Prophet killed hundreds of men who had surrendered just like the Taliban killed people who they caught summarily following this precept.

The US doesn't follow this principle. Following your logic in defense of your barbaric Prophet US could claim it as a waste of money holding these prisoners and execute them all and enslave their women and children, but this option is only good for those without conscience like the Muslims are.

You quote a couple of Hadiths talking about freeing captives, how did they get the captives? They enslaved them.

What about this Hadith?

Vol. 3-#765

           Narrated Kuraib:  the freed slave of Ibn 'Abbas, that Maimuna bint Al-Harith told him that she manumitted a slave-girl without taking the permission of the Prophet. On the day when it was her turn to be with the Prophet, she said, "Do you know, O Allah's Apostle, that I have manumitted my slave-girl?" He said, "Have you really?" She replied in the affirmative. He said, "You would have got more reward if you had given her (i.e. the slave-girl) to one of your maternal uncles."

When slaves became old and useless for raping and forced servitude then some were freed. This too after making them into followers of the Islamic cult.

Question?

Why the Caliphs (leaders of Islamic world) had hundreds or thousands of women in their harems (largely slaves) guarded by slave castrated eunechs? Didn't they understand the couple of hadiths you quoted or were they following the real Islam not the apologetic version?

I only have time to respond to a couple of points as above and not all of your lies.

Regards, Kisan.

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ansari41
 
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Quote ansari41 Replybullet Posted: 13 June 2005 at 8:27am

“Then you have the lack of ethics…”

 

You have zero honesty and debating with you is a waste of time.”

 

 

Childish!!! Symptoms of immaturity and inferiority complex. It is a very common phenomenon among people who can’t stand being questioned, exposed and who are immature, and those who ‘refuse to grow up’. Don’t worry. There is a chance that these symptoms may disappear as you grow up, provided you learn to respect others.

 

Islam does not institutionalise anything. It has its own rules and regulations that are unambiguous. Therefore, if you were told that Islam has institutionalised anything, it is wrong. But on the other hand, IF Islam had tolerated or even encouraged slavery, there is nothing to deny about it. (But it did not). Islam is a perfect religion, perfect in every sense of the word. If it had encouraged anything, it is for the benefit of mankind, and therefore it would be foolishness to reject it. And Islam does not need anybody’s approval of anything it has propagated or encouraged. And therefore your assumption that I was trying to defend Islam on the subject of slavery is unfounded.

 

I don’t understand which ‘link’ you are talking about. If you are talking about the ‘link’ that I have in mind, then it is nothing, pure nonsense and is not worthy of any mention.

 

Yes I did mention ‘Islam is against slavery’, and even now I repeat it. Islam is against slavery. But, let me ask you, who told you the Prophet, his wife or followers were not supposed to keep slaves? Is it a new invention? Is it a new regulation?

 

You said:

 

‘Holy Prophet killed hundreds of men who had surrendered…’

 

At this juncture, let me repeat my question: ‘…what would you do if you were in Sad’s shoes?’

  

You said:

‘… your barbaric Prophet…’

 

You are exposing yourself. Your upbringing is being reflected, very, very clearly.

 

 

You said:

Why the Caliphs (leaders of Islamic world) had hundreds or thousands of women in their harems (largely slaves) guarded by slave castrated eunechs?”

Your knowledge about Islam seems to be 'immense’. Please share the source of the above information with the others. For some reasons, if you can’t, be a man and apologise to all the 1.3 billion Muslims.

Ansari

 

 

 

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