Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

General Discussion
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : General : General Discussion
Message Icon Topic: How first impressions can be hurtful.... Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 3 Next >>
Author Message
aka2x2
 
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 September 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 411
Quote aka2x2 Replybullet Posted: 21 June 2007 at 10:11am

Angela/Jamal,

 

I have witnessed a lot of cruelty of man upon man in my life. Sometimes it was with words and oftentimes with action. It never ceases to amaze how hard some hearts are.

 

I am sorry for the mean spirited words that have hurt you both. I thought about what you said and what solutions there may be. Your hurt has touched me and I wanted to agree with you and offer ways to shut up the voices of hate on this forum. But, that would be censorship and I do not agree that censorship is the answer.

 

Free speech is what makes this forum attractive to Muslims and Non-Muslims alike. Censorship would destroy the very reason this site is as popular as Angela says it is. Ordinary Muslim masses have been censored for too long. We have been silent while dictators ruled over us. We have been silent while fake leaders hijacked our religion. We have been silent while other ideologies challenged us. Now the internet has offered us a way to voice our thoughts and opinions.

 

Some of us have chosen to use this opportunity to learn and share knowledge. Others use this forum to make new friends. Others regurgitate the same small minded empty rhetoric that the illiterate sheiks of the 18th century spewed while their fortune was being pillaged.

 

I believe Allah wants good and bad to confront each other. That is why He allowed evil to exist in the first place. I believe it is best that the confrontation is public. Allah shall guide whomsoever He chooses with the good words and misguide whomsoever He chooses with the bad words.


Respectfully
aka2x2
IP IP Logged
Angela
 Christian
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 11 July 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2555
Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 21 June 2007 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by Israfil

Interesting post Angela.

You seem to have a well rounded view of religions. Without getting too personal and off track, how much in depth did your religious search take you in the other faiths you encountered?



I don't think that is too off track.  I will say that some I am better versed in than others.  I quickly realized Buddhism and Taoism were not for me.  I was very interested in Wicca....that I can say I am very familiar with and Hinduism.  Hinduism was never a religion I studied to practice, it was more of a curiosity for me. 

Of all the religions out there, save the different sects of Christianity, I can say, I learned more about Islam in the last two years than I have all the others.  I only delved enough to get a feel for the faith, I could tell in my heart if it was worth going any further. 

Islam is such a paradox for me.  How something so simple, so easy can be made so complicated by the people who follow it.  It really is so very simple, then you get into things like Fiqh, Sunna, Sharia, sectarianism.  No wonder Khadijah1021 refuses to call herself by terms like Sunni, or Shia, or Sufi.....for her its just Islam and people are just Muslims.

I have seen the best of Islam on this website, and I have seen glimpses into a darkness that pervades those who don't heed the manners and example of the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh). 

I showed my husband "The Message" movie last year, hoping to spark his interest.  We had a long talk about it.  If more Muslims were to really follow the lessons he taught instead of focusing on the negatives, our world would be a wonderful place.

Islam doesn't need to conform to western society.  The most perfect and harmonious example of a society of learning came during the Golden Age of Spain.  The moors gave rights to Christian and Jew and learning flourished.  Freedoms flourished. 

Its those who take away freewill that I fear.  The Quran says there is no compulsion in religion because the truth stands by itself.  Man is imperfect.

My spiritual journey took me down paths both full of light and love and full of darkness and misery.  The further from God I got, the more miserable I was.  My posting this story is to show to all of you that you actions are like sign posts on the paths.  If you are welcoming, you can help guide someone down the path of light, but if you are menacing, they may flee down the wrong path to escape you.  All the while, you block the truth's light with your own darkness.
IP IP Logged
crasss
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member


Joined: 01 April 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 516
Quote crasss Replybullet Posted: 21 June 2007 at 8:20pm
Originally posted by Jamal Morelli

...the 'whorehouse' America, etc. because they are Christian...

If they were really Christian, they wouldn't be called a 'whorehouse'.

Even though the Quran elaborates on certain imperfections in Christian theology, such as inventing human family members of the One God, it is also clear that the Quran has sympathy for the people of the Book, if they really follow the morals taught in the Book.

Let's say that there are a few unpleasant truths about the West, concerning these morals:

Data from European demographers and statistical bureaus show that a majority of children in Sweden and Norway are now born out of wedlock, as are 60 percent of first-born children in Denmark.

The 'whorehouse' problem in formerly Christian countries is not related to Christianity, but to the "modernization" and even outright abolition of Christianity.

The truth is that the West does not only reject Islam, it also rejects traditional Christian morality, in terms of which the West is also considered to be a 'whorehouse'. In fact, there is not one religion in terms of which the West is not considered to be a 'whorehouse'.

Why don't former Christians re-adopt the morality of the bible, if they can't accept Islam? That would create a minimum of compatibility that does not exist today. On the other hand, I seriously doubt that the problem can still be solved, and therefore, I think it is more interesting to let this problem simply evolve to its logical conclusion.

IP IP Logged
Duende
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member


Joined: 27 July 2005
Location: Spain
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 651
Quote Duende Replybullet Posted: 22 June 2007 at 3:22am
Dear Angela, thank you for posting your first impressions story, as usual
your wisdom shines through.

I agree with you, and am reminded once again of Sister Maryah who
invariably shows up and teaches us all a lesson just when we need it, and
that lesson is COMPASSION. How hard that is for all of us!
IP IP Logged
Angela
 Christian
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 11 July 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2555
Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 22 June 2007 at 3:44am
Jamal and aka2x2,

There is a difference between censorship and reminders about forum guidelines.  As long as one remains within the agreed upon rules that this forums discussions are based upon, I have no problem with postings.

Discussions about chasity and modesty are hot topics on LDS forums that I visit.  Discussions on the degrading society and such.  However, conversations are conducted in a calm and rational manner.  If one were to view our conversations, they would see reasons and encouragement to turn away from the "acceptable" sins in todays society without derogatory and hurtful insults thrust at the lost.

There is a love to be expressed for the lost and a hand extended to them to return them to God's loving embrace.  Repentence is a cornerstone of Faith.  And there are two ways to call people to repentence.  There is the fire and brimstone screaming street preacher.....and we all know how effective they are.  And the second way, to show compassion and set an example, calling the people away from sin and showing them the true freedoms and happiness derived from a moral existence. 

I am reminded how Jesus stopped the men from stoning the adultress and told her to go forth and sin no more.  Believe he is Prophet or Son, Jesus spoke as a messanger from God.  He taught repentence, forgiveness and love. 

I am not saying censorship.  I certainly have been censored enough in my past here.  However, certain behaviours are unacceptable and are not tolerated from anyone.  Certainly, if it were a different situation, the posts would have been deleted and the person banned (as in the case of several offensive Non Muslims).

Western Women are one of the fastest growing groups of converts to Islam.  Thousands in Europe and North America have taken their Shahadas.  I cringe to think of all the women who've reverted to Islam, how many would have rethought their actions when faced with being told that they are sluts and bastards simply because of the color of their skin or their citizenship.

Islam does not believe in Original Sin, they do not believe in the concept of the sin passing from the parents to the child.  Even when the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) stoned a girl who had become pregnant.  He told her relatives to take her and treat her kindly until she gave birth, then bring her to him after she had the child.  He even prayed over her body because of her repentence.  Now, you know how I feel about stoning.  But, kindness and compassion were shown to the sinner, even as her punishment was being handed out.  This tells me there is a great disparity between the way of the Prophet and the actions of some of those who claim to follow him.

Sadly, I wish it were only one or two.  I cry that this attitude is more pervasive than any of us really have a clue.  Its not westernization if you're following the example of your Prophet.  Fatima showed a wonderful example of Muhammed's (pbuh) forgiveness and teaching.  The other one I like is about a man who used to insult the Prophet (pbuh) every day.  One day, he was not around, because he was ill.  The Prophet (pbuh) checked on him to see if he was okay.  Does this sound like a man who would approve of the maligning of thousands of innocent women?  No. 



IP IP Logged
crasss
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member


Joined: 01 April 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 516
Quote crasss Replybullet Posted: 22 June 2007 at 5:59am
Originally posted by Angela

I cringe to think of all the women who've reverted to Islam, how many would have rethought their actions when faced with being told that they are sluts and bastards simply because of the color of their skin or their citizenship.

Their past is not necessarily publicly known -- better to shut up about it -- and I don't think anybody would insult a woman dressed in hijab. On the contrary, I believe that dressing in hijab instills respect. The more modestly and decently dressed, the better!


IP IP Logged
Angela
 Christian
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 11 July 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2555
Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 22 June 2007 at 6:15am
Not all reverts where Hijab in the traditional sense.  I know many Muslimas both reverts and born Muslimas who cover but don't where the headscarf.  Hijab is not just a piece of cloth for the head.  I personally wear cloths that cover from my neck to below the knee.  Often clear to the ankle.  You shouldn't assume since there is no scarf on the head that the woman isn't chaste.  Or that she's not Muslim for that matter.  Modesty is a state of being, not a state of dress.  If a person is modest, it will show in her actions.  She won't make crude jokes, use profanity or indulge in racy talk.

Besides, I was told by a friend who was engaged to a Moroccan man that often prostitutes in Middle Eastern countries will wear full hijab and even niqab.  Its not the dress, its the person in it.  So, basically, you're saying that if a woman isn't in the headscarf, she's worthy of insult?  No matter if she is Muslim or not?  And that its okay to overlook the sins of the revert, but its not okay to encourage other sinners to turn away from sin? 

And if you don't think anyone would insult a woman in hijab, go to Youtube and search for Hijab.  You'll find both wonderful testimonies and outright insults.  The cloth doesn't protect you from insult.  People minding their own tongues protects from insults.

You can't expect to be respected, if you never take the time to show it.




IP IP Logged
crasss
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member


Joined: 01 April 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 516
Quote crasss Replybullet Posted: 22 June 2007 at 6:42am
Originally posted by Angela

And that its okay to overlook the sins of the revert

We don't know the sins of any particular revert, and I believe it is better to keep such sins to one self. Look, if she dresses in hijab in public, how could anybody know anything more than that? We just appreciate the fact that she dresses decently, and that's it, really.
Originally posted by Angela

its not okay to encourage other sinners to turn away from sin?

Why not? Some people may be susceptible to the arguments and be interested in quitting a bad lifestyle. There is,however, no value in advertising one's former lifestyle. I really think it is better to keep quiet about it.

IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 3 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com