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 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : General : General Discussion
Message Icon Topic: How first impressions can be hurtful.... Post Reply Post New Topic
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Angela
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 22 June 2007 at 7:01am
If the possibility of redemption is never known, then how will they know its possible?  Perhaps they will think themselves beyond redemption.  And we are assuming that they are in a sinful way when they look to find faith. 

At 17, I was very much an innocent and remained that way for several more years.  When I began my spiritual journey, I didn't smoke, drink, go around with boys.  I literally went from attending church every sunday and teaching Sunday school to wondering if there really was a God and what did he really teach.

That man at the mosque treated us much like you treat western women.  Had you met me that day, you would have looked at my skirt and assumed the worst, even though it came to below the knee.  You would have been very wrong.  You are very wrong about a great many girls.  Your hateful words and actions will only turn away the girls that need God the most.

Whether they are sinners or just lost spiritually they deserve the benefit of the doubt and encouragement to be better people.  Not to be torn down by men who have no right, no clue and no appreciation for the tests and trials faced by them. 

I will tell you this, you ask how could anyone know more about a woman in hijab?  Her community knows what kind of person she was.  Her family, her friends, her coworkers.  A revert doesn't wash away the past, she just washes away the sin of it.  It does her no good to dwell on it, nor does it do her any good to forget.   We learn from our mistakes, if we forget we ever made them, then we didn't learn our lesson.

I never assume anything about a person by their dress or their faith.  The local Imam here in Utah was removed from his position for abusing his wife, they have a new Imam now.  Priests all over are sued for horrible crimes.  Mothers send their sons off to become martyrs or drown them in bathtubs.  Judging someone by their facade is the worst thing you can do.  It might be that girl in the midrift shirt who one day walks into a mosque and asks for answers.  It might be that prostitute who finally finds God and opens a soup kitched for the homeless.  It might be that fine Muslim husband who beats his wife to death or cheats on her and brings her some disease from the prostitute he visited while on a business trip.

Looks aren't everything...
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crasss
 
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Quote crasss Replybullet Posted: 22 June 2007 at 9:20am
Originally posted by Angela

That man at the mosque treated us much like you treat western women.

Look, I have no particular motivation to ask about anybody's past. I do seriously appreciate decent dress. Everything else, I don't know the details about, and to tell you the truth, I don't want to know.
Originally posted by Angela

Your hateful words and actions will only turn away the girls that need God the most.

Am I preventing them from dressing decently? My "hateful" words are not addressed at any individual in particular. If a woman recognizes herself in these "hateful" words, then I think it is better that she does not admit that. The purpose of these "hateful" words is not to extract confessions from anybody, but to point out that some people have enough of the rampant depravity.
Originally posted by Angela

A revert doesn't wash away the past, she just washes away the sin of it.

Look, if this person publicly participated in orgies in her own neighbourhood, and she comes to regret that, she may have to move to another neighbourhood where people don't know about this.

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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 22 June 2007 at 9:42am
Angela you really don't have to explain yourself.
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Altair
 
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Quote Altair Replybullet Posted: 22 June 2007 at 8:39pm
The only problem I have with sexy girls is its harder for me not to look.
Haha but thats really my own fault. For some non-muslim women, its not
obligatory in their religion to cover certain parts so how can you blame
them if they don't? The reason they wear what they wear can be many. To
look pretty, to feel comfortable, confident. Its only natural.

I don't have to talk about the drawbacks of being too sexy when you go
out as I'm sure the women experience it themselves from googly eyed
men haha.

In the case for muslim women. Its still true that we can't really judge the
person by how they dress. We should judge the person as a person. So if
the woman is a muslim, and she doesn't dress in an appropriate muslim
woman attire then one can tell that she is either not a pious muslim,
takes this obligation, think its ok. (those prostitutes in hijjab are
something i cant understand)

Definitely not an easy task to be a muslim woman/girl. I know a lot of
muslim girls who dont always wear hijjab but some of them are in a sense
"more conservative" in their language than some girls I know that wear
hijjab. So we can't solely judge someone by how they dress..(not
applicable to bar top dancers)
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mariyah
 
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Quote mariyah Replybullet Posted: 23 June 2007 at 2:07am

Originally posted by crasss

Originally posted by Jamal Morelli

...the 'whorehouse' America, etc. because they are Christian...

If they were really Christian, they wouldn't be called a 'whorehouse'.

Even though the Quran elaborates on certain imperfections in Christian theology, such as inventing human family members of the One God, it is also clear that the Quran has sympathy for the people of the Book, if they really follow the morals taught in the Book.

Let's say that there are a few unpleasant truths about the West, concerning these morals:

Data from European demographers and statistical bureaus show that a majority of children in Sweden and Norway are now born out of wedlock, as are 60 percent of first-born children in Denmark.

The 'whorehouse' problem in formerly Christian countries is not related to Christianity, but to the "modernization" and even outright abolition of Christianity.

The truth is that the West does not only reject Islam, it also rejects traditional Christian morality, in terms of which the West is also considered to be a 'whorehouse'. In fact, there is not one religion in terms of which the West is not considered to be a 'whorehouse'.

Why don't former Christians re-adopt the morality of the bible, if they can't accept Islam? That would create a minimum of compatibility that does not exist today. On the other hand, I seriously doubt that the problem can still be solved, and therefore, I think it is more interesting to let this problem simply evolve to its logical conclusion.

Assalaamu alaikum:

Ever hear of the term, "its like beating a dead horse"?

That is what it seems  are doing with this subject. Seems we cant have one thread where you do not elaborate on "children born out of wedlock"

Br Crasss, you have much knowledge on this subject but lack the wisdom as to when to drop it, or just let it die.

For the sake of modesty, please drop it. As it states in the Holy Quran:

"O you who believe! Let not some men amongst you laugh at others, it may be that the latter are better that the former, nor let some women laugh at others, :it may be that the latter are better than the former. Nor defame or be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by offensive nicknames, ill-seeming is a name connotting wickedness, (to be used of one) after he has believed, and those who do not desist are (Indeed) doing wrong."  Al-hurjurat  (49:11)

Thank you for your time.

Wasalaam



Edited by Maryah
"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.
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herjihad
 
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Quote herjihad Replybullet Posted: 24 June 2007 at 8:24am
Originally posted by aka2x2

Angela/Jamal,

 

But, that would be censorship and I do not agree that censorship is the answer.

Free speech is what makes this forum attractive to Muslims and Non-Muslims alike. Censorship would destroy the very reason this site is as popular as Angela says it is. Ordinary Muslim masses have been censored for too long. We have been silent while dictators ruled over us. We have been silent while fake leaders hijacked our religion. We have been silent while other ideologies challenged us. Now the internet has offered us a way to voice our thoughts and opinions.

Some of us have chosen to use this opportunity to learn and share knowledge. Others use this forum to make new friends. Others regurgitate the same small minded empty rhetoric that the illiterate sheiks of the 18th century spewed while their fortune was being pillaged.

I believe Allah wants good and bad to confront each other. That is why He allowed evil to exist in the first place. I believe it is best that the confrontation is public. Allah shall guide whomsoever He chooses with the good words and misguide whomsoever He chooses with the bad words.

Bismillah and Salaams,

Brother Aka -- is that a new name for the old Ak, or are you a new person?

Anyway, what type of things do you think should be removed if any?

I agree with Angela and also with a point that you made.  When people make hateful posts, as long as the moderators or aware Islamicity members, throughly and clearly state and oppose that bigoted, racist, violent et cetera, point of view or harrangue, then it is useful for people to see that.

But as Sister Angela and I and many others well know, tirades have gone on unbelievably long with no productive discussion other than members who don't have the power to stop the thread or temporarily ban the attackers watch with dismay.

Maybe the solution is to have more moderators and a few less rules.  Since the rules aren't being followed, and some like Aka here and if any of you remember Arabian Knight, really believe that they are too strict, then we could actually have a set of very basic rules that everyone could follow and more people would be available to implement them effectively and consistently.

Thanks for your thought-provoking post, Sister Angela.

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 24 June 2007 at 9:57am

 agree with Angela and also with a point that you made.  When people make hateful posts, as long as the moderators or aware Islamicity members, throughly and clearly state and oppose that bigoted, racist, violent et cetera, point of view or harrangue, then it is useful for people to see that.

I did't get this.......

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herjihad
 
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Quote herjihad Replybullet Posted: 24 June 2007 at 7:00pm
Originally posted by Israfil

I did't get this.......

Salaams,

Brother, when people post wildly inappropriate stuff, rather than deleting it (unless it's porn or viciously attacking someone), when the members respond to it and label it for the noxious stuff that it is, people reading these posts will see that although some Muslims, and non-Muslim posters, are violent, agressive, xenophobic, mysogynistic et cetera, that we respond to them and deal with it. 

The problem has been that we, the loyal members don't have the power to stop people from posting such things and in every case that I have seen it takes the moderators weeks and even months to "get" to it.  But at least the benefit that Ak was pointing out was people can see that most people oppose such bad behavior.

Things are busy in the house.  I may be repeating the same stuff as before and not making my point any clearer than the original post.  Sorry.  Kids are noisy, you know! 

Whew.  Yeah.  Can't concentrate.  Gotta run.  Salams.

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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