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Abu Mujahid
 
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Quote Abu Mujahid Replybullet Topic: The Position of the Salaf on Istawaa
    Posted: 17 June 2007 at 4:04am

Dear Reader:

I think this summary will help anyone who is seeking truth about this simple but serious topic.

 

Belief


The Position of the Salaf on Istawaa and Further Replies to Kabbani

By : Abu Rumaysah

We now quote extracts from the book of Imaam al-Bukhaaree, ‘Khalq Af’aal Ebaad’ concerning this topic. All the narrations are authentic according to the research done on this work by the great hadeeth scholar Badr al-Badr (RH), and are from the Sahaabah or those who came soon after:

6) Wahb bin Jareer said, ‘The Jahmiyyah are heretics, they think that He has not risen over His Throne.’

13) Ibn al-Mubaarak said, ‘we do not say as the Jahmiyyah say that Allaah is on the earth, rather He has risen over His Throne.’

14) And it was said to him, ‘how should we know our Lord?’ He said, ‘above the Heavens, over/upon (‘alaa) His Throne’

29) Sufyaan ath-Thawree was asked about the verse, "and He is with you wheresoever you are". He said, ‘His Knowledge.’

64) Sadqa said, ‘I heard Sulaymaan at-Taimee saying, ‘if I were asked, "where is Allaah?" I would say, "above (fee) the heaven". And if it said, "where was the Throne before the Heaven?" I would say, "over the water." And if it is said, "where was the Throne before the water?" I would say, "I do not know."’

Imaam Bukhaaree said, ‘and that (i.e. his answer) was because of the saying of Allaah, "and they cannot encompass anything of His Knowledge except what He wills." i.e. except what He explains.’

66) Muhammad bin Yusuf said (one of the teachers of Bukhaaree), ‘the one who says that Allaah is not over (‘alaa) His Throne is a kaafir. And the one who thinks that Allaah did not speak to Moses is a kaafir.’

103) Ibn Mas’ud (RA) said about His saying, "then He rose over His Throne", - ‘the Throne is over the water, and Allaah is above (fawqa) the Throne, and He knows what you are upon.’

104) Qataada said about His saying, "and He is Allaah in the Heaven and in the Earth" - ‘the One Who is worshipped in the heaven and in the earth.’

Below are further points translated from ‘Sharh Usul I'tiqaad Ahlus Sunnah’ of al-Laalikaaee (d.414, pp396+ - tahqeeq Ahmad Hamdaan)

660) Abdullaah bin Abbaas (RA) said, ‘Verily Allaah was above His Throne before He created anything, then He created the creation and decreed what was to exist until the Day of Judgement.’

662) Bashr bin Umar said, ‘I heard more then one of the Mufassir say about the verse, "The Most Merciful istawaa upon the Throne" - istiwaa means rose above.’

665) Rabee' (one of the teachers of Maalik) was asked about the verse, "The Most Merciful rose over His Throne" - ‘how did He rise?’ He replied, ‘al-istiwaa (rising) is known, and the how is not comprehensible, and from Allaah is the message, and upon the Messenger is the preaching, and upon us is believing.’

670) Maqaatil bin Huyaan said about His saying, "and there is no secret discourse of 3 people except He is the fourth, or of 5 people and He is the sixth" - ‘He is above His Throne, and nothing is hidden from His knowledge.’

673) Imaam Ahmad was asked, ‘Allaah is above the seventh heaven, above His Throne, distinct from his creation, and His Power and Knowledge are in every place?’ And he replied, ‘yes, above the Throne and His Knowledge is in every place.’

675) Imaam Ahmad was asked about the verse, "and He is with you wheresoever you are", and the verse, "there is no secret discourse of 3 people except that he is the fourth.." - and he said, ‘(meaning) His Knowledge, He is the Knower of the seen and the unseen, His Knowledge encompasses everything, and our Lord is above the Throne without setting limits and giving description , and His Kursi is as the expanse of the heavens and the earth with His Knowledge.’"

Imaam Abdullaah bin Ahmad quotes Abdullaah ibn Mubaarak as saying, "...I bear witness that You are above Your Throne above the seven heavens. And this is not as the enemies of Allaah say, the heretics."

He also quoted him as saying, "we know that our Lord is above the seven heavens over the Throne, and we do not say as the Jahmiyyah say that he is here," pointing with his hand to the earth.

Imaam Maalik said, " Allaah is Above the heaven, and His Knowledge is in every place, nothing is hidden from Him."

Abu Haneefah (RH) said, when asked of his opinion of the one who says, ‘I do not know whether Allaah is above the heavens or on the earth.’ - "He has disbelieved, because Allaah says, "The Most Merciful rose above the Throne.", and His Throne is above His seven heavens.’ He was then asked, ‘what if he said that Allaah is above His Throne but he does not know whether the Throne is in the heavens or on the earth?’ He said, ‘He has disbelieved, because He has denied that He is above the heavens, And whosoever denied that He is above the heavens has disbelieved."

Al-Albaanee says following up this statement in ‘Mukhtasar al-Uluw’ (pg. 136),

"…So you see Abu Mansur (al-Maatureedee) making ta’weel of this statement of Abu Haneefah with a ta’weel that undermines the words of Abu Haneefah and ejects him from the group of the salaf in not performing ta’weel by saying in commentary to his saying, ‘has disbelieved’:

 

  "The reason is that by such words he suggests a place for Allaah and this is idolatry".
 

 

And he did not consider the rest of words of Abu Haneefah which invalidate his ta’weel and that is his saying, may Allaah have mercy upon him, ‘because Allaah says, "the Most Merciful rose above the Throne “’.

I say: This makes it clear that the reason for his disbelief is his rejection of what this verse clearly indicates in His Rising over His Throne, not that he suggests a place for Allaah, Exalted is Allaah from that. And what we have mentioned was also mentioned by the commentator of ‘Aqueedah at-Tahaawiyyah’ (i.e. ibn Abee al-Izz) after mentioning this report…

 

  ‘And do not pay attention to those that reject this (narration) from those that attribute themselves to the Madhhab of Abu Haneefah, for a group of the Mu’tazila and others who oppose a large number of his beliefs attribute themselves to him. And some people who oppose some of the beliefs of Maalik, ash-Shaafi’ee, and Ahmad, also attribute themselves to them. And the story of Abu Yusuf asking Bishr al-Mareesee to repent when he rejected that Allaah is above His Throne is well-known."’
 

Ibn Khuzaimah (the Imaam of the muhadditheen of his time) said,

 

  "Whosoever does not affirm that Allaah is above His heavens, over/upon ('alaa) His Throne, and He is distinct from His creation, must be forced to repent. if he does not repent, then he must be beheaded and then thrown in the garbage dump, so that the Muslims and thimmis (Jews and Christians living under the Islamic State) would not suffer from his stinking smell."
 

And the words of Abdul Qaadir al-Jeelaanee have preceded. Kabban

  • i states (pg. 106), "among the least injurious and most befitting meanings of verse 20:5 – and Allaah knows best – is also ‘subdue’ (qahara) and ‘conquer’ (istawlaa)."

From the preceding discussion it is crystal clear that these meanings are in no way the ‘least injurious’ rather they are from the most evil sayings due to their departing from the belief and understanding of our righteous salaf, may Allaah be pleased with them all. We also now know the true sources of knowledge that Kabbani draws from, the Mu’tazila, even though he may deny it, and try to hide behind quoting some of the scholars of Ahlus Sunnah.

  • Kabbaani states (pg. 189) that both ibn Taymiyyah and ibn al-Qayyim believed that the Prophet (SAW) sits on the Throne with Allaah.

This claim will be dealt with separately under the section on ibn Taymiyyah insha’allaah.
  • Kabbani quotes (pg. 190), ‘Muhammad Saalih al-Uthaymin, a Saudi scholar, writes in his Aqidat al-muslim, translated as "The Muslims Belief": Allah’s establishment on the throne means that He is sitting in person on His throne"

In the English translation of this work, this is how this statement is translated, but when one reads the original Arabic it quickly becomes clear that it is impossible to translate ibn Uthaymeen’s statement as above, here is what ibn Uthaymeen says on pg.11 of the original Arabic,

 

  "We believe that He ‘created the Heavens and the earth in Six days than He made Istawaa upon the Throne, He manages everything.' His Istawaa means that He is in Person above the Throne in a way that befits His Majesty and Greatness. Nobody Knows how He made Istawaa,"
 

We have no idea how the translator of this work could have translated so badly! As for Kabbani then he falls into one of two possibilities:

  1. He relied upon a translation of an Arabic work to accuse someone of disbelief

  2. He was aware of the Arabic but deliberately chose to employ the translation

And the least of these possibilities is evil!

Unfortunately the matter is far more serious then either of the above two possibilities. Much of the information that is contained in the book of Kabbani was put up on the internet by his close followers as part of an internet debate that I was involved in. During the course of this debate the above quote was put up and those that put it up were corrected, then at a later date the same people put up the same quote again and were corrected again by myself. Now a lot of points that arose from this debate are to be found in Kabbani’s book which indicates clearly that he was made aware of the contents of this debate, and that he was aware of the above misquote!

So what is the ruling of one who knows that he is misquoting, and knows that through his misquoting he is accusing another Muslim of disbelief! Is he to be trusted or not?

 

 

 

Source: Load-islam.com

http://www.load-islam.com/artical_det.php?artical_id=549& ;section=indepth&subsection=Belief

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May Allah reward you Khair.
Islam need true muslims
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abuzaid
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Quote abuzaid Replybullet Posted: 17 June 2007 at 6:27am
Brother, there are people who would hate to read or hear the word "salaf"
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Quote Abu Mujahid Replybullet Posted: 17 June 2007 at 7:22am

Brother,

No problem. We will preach them the true Islam in time of trial regardless.

 

 

Abu Mujahid 

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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 17 June 2007 at 8:57am

What is a throne? What does it symbolize? If one says the throne is physical then, it is Kufr to say that Allah physically sits on a throne as this process is an impotency body because that would mean, Allah hasd the need to sit as humans do. If this is simply metaphorical, then the proper way to say is Allah is above everything ascribed to him including a throne. A throne is simply stating God's sovereignty above everything in the universe but it does not necessitate God's excellence. To necessitate God's excellence by stating he is not above his throne would to ascribe an external existent other than God. God does not "rise up to a throne" because movement is a process of change and God, (According to Kalam) does not move.

I disagree with:

"Whosoever does not affirm that Allaah is above His heavens, over/upon ('alaa) His Throne, and He is distinct from His creation, must be forced to repent. if he does not repent, then he must be beheaded and then thrown in the garbage dump, so that the Muslims and thimmis (Jews and Christians living under the Islamic State) would not suffer from his stinking smell."

Allah is unlike anything in the universe. Allah is not composed of matter and since, matter is an esstential quality of a living and non-living thing then how does God relate to this? But if one disagree he must be, beheaded? LOL

Again, if God sits on his throne that means he has the qualities of a human (or humanoid) and that, his throne necessitates Allah sitting in that throne. To me, that is Kufr. Allah is above any and everything. His only relation to the world is through divine emanation.

 

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Quote Andalus Replybullet Posted: 17 June 2007 at 11:11am
Originally posted by Abu Mujahid

Dear Reader:

I think this summary will help anyone who is seeking truth about this simple but serious topic.

 

Belief


The Position of the Salaf on Istawaa and Further Replies to Kabbani

By : Abu Rumaysah

We now quote extracts from the book of Imaam al-Bukhaaree, ‘Khalq Af’aal Ebaad’ concerning this topic. All the narrations are authentic according to the research done on this work by the great hadeeth scholar Badr al-Badr (RH), and are from the Sahaabah or those who came soon after:

6) Wahb bin Jareer said, ‘The Jahmiyyah are heretics, they think that He has not risen over His Throne.’

13) Ibn al-Mubaarak said, ‘we do not say as the Jahmiyyah say that Allaah is on the earth, rather He has risen over His Throne.’

14) And it was said to him, ‘how should we know our Lord?’ He said, ‘above the Heavens, over/upon (‘alaa) His Throne’

29) Sufyaan ath-Thawree was asked about the verse, "and He is with you wheresoever you are". He said, ‘His Knowledge.’

64) Sadqa said, ‘I heard Sulaymaan at-Taimee saying, ‘if I were asked, "where is Allaah?" I would say, "above (fee) the heaven". And if it said, "where was the Throne before the Heaven?" I would say, "over the water." And if it is said, "where was the Throne before the water?" I would say, "I do not know."’

Imaam Bukhaaree said, ‘and that (i.e. his answer) was because of the saying of Allaah, "and they cannot encompass anything of His Knowledge except what He wills." i.e. except what He explains.’

66) Muhammad bin Yusuf said (one of the teachers of Bukhaaree), ‘the one who says that Allaah is not over (‘alaa) His Throne is a kaafir. And the one who thinks that Allaah did not speak to Moses is a kaafir.’

103) Ibn Mas’ud (RA) said about His saying, "then He rose over His Throne", - ‘the Throne is over the water, and Allaah is above (fawqa) the Throne, and He knows what you are upon.’

104) Qataada said about His saying, "and He is Allaah in the Heaven and in the Earth" - ‘the One Who is worshipped in the heaven and in the earth.’

Below are further points translated from ‘Sharh Usul I'tiqaad Ahlus Sunnah’ of al-Laalikaaee (d.414, pp396+ - tahqeeq Ahmad Hamdaan)

660) Abdullaah bin Abbaas (RA) said, ‘Verily Allaah was above His Throne before He created anything, then He created the creation and decreed what was to exist until the Day of Judgement.’

662) Bashr bin Umar said, ‘I heard more then one of the Mufassir say about the verse, "The Most Merciful istawaa upon the Throne" - istiwaa means rose above.’

665) Rabee' (one of the teachers of Maalik) was asked about the verse, "The Most Merciful rose over His Throne" - ‘how did He rise?’ He replied, ‘al-istiwaa (rising) is known, and the how is not comprehensible, and from Allaah is the message, and upon the Messenger is the preaching, and upon us is believing.’

670) Maqaatil bin Huyaan said about His saying, "and there is no secret discourse of 3 people except He is the fourth, or of 5 people and He is the sixth" - ‘He is above His Throne, and nothing is hidden from His knowledge.’

673) Imaam Ahmad was asked, ‘Allaah is above the seventh heaven, above His Throne, distinct from his creation, and His Power and Knowledge are in every place?’ And he replied, ‘yes, above the Throne and His Knowledge is in every place.’

675) Imaam Ahmad was asked about the verse, "and He is with you wheresoever you are", and the verse, "there is no secret discourse of 3 people except that he is the fourth.." - and he said, ‘(meaning) His Knowledge, He is the Knower of the seen and the unseen, His Knowledge encompasses everything, and our Lord is above the Throne without setting limits and giving description , and His Kursi is as the expanse of the heavens and the earth with His Knowledge.’"

Imaam Abdullaah bin Ahmad quotes Abdullaah ibn Mubaarak as saying, "...I bear witness that You are above Your Throne above the seven heavens. And this is not as the enemies of Allaah say, the heretics."

He also quoted him as saying, "we know that our Lord is above the seven heavens over the Throne, and we do not say as the Jahmiyyah say that he is here," pointing with his hand to the earth.

Imaam Maalik said, " Allaah is Above the heaven, and His Knowledge is in every place, nothing is hidden from Him."

Abu Haneefah (RH) said, when asked of his opinion of the one who says, ‘I do not know whether Allaah is above the heavens or on the earth.’ - "He has disbelieved, because Allaah says, "The Most Merciful rose above the Throne.", and His Throne is above His seven heavens.’ He was then asked, ‘what if he said that Allaah is above His Throne but he does not know whether the Throne is in the heavens or on the earth?’ He said, ‘He has disbelieved, because He has denied that He is above the heavens, And whosoever denied that He is above the heavens has disbelieved."

Al-Albaanee says following up this statement in ‘Mukhtasar al-Uluw’ (pg. 136),

"…So you see Abu Mansur (al-Maatureedee) making ta’weel of this statement of Abu Haneefah with a ta’weel that undermines the words of Abu Haneefah and ejects him from the group of the salaf in not performing ta’weel by saying in commentary to his saying, ‘has disbelieved’:

 

  "The reason is that by such words he suggests a place for Allaah and this is idolatry".
 

 

And he did not consider the rest of words of Abu Haneefah which invalidate his ta’weel and that is his saying, may Allaah have mercy upon him, ‘because Allaah says, "the Most Merciful rose above the Throne “’.

I say: This makes it clear that the reason for his disbelief is his rejection of what this verse clearly indicates in His Rising over His Throne, not that he suggests a place for Allaah, Exalted is Allaah from that. And what we have mentioned was also mentioned by the commentator of ‘Aqueedah at-Tahaawiyyah’ (i.e. ibn Abee al-Izz) after mentioning this report…

 

  ‘And do not pay attention to those that reject this (narration) from those that attribute themselves to the Madhhab of Abu Haneefah, for a group of the Mu’tazila and others who oppose a large number of his beliefs attribute themselves to him. And some people who oppose some of the beliefs of Maalik, ash-Shaafi’ee, and Ahmad, also attribute themselves to them. And the story of Abu Yusuf asking Bishr al-Mareesee to repent when he rejected that Allaah is above His Throne is well-known."’
 

Ibn Khuzaimah (the Imaam of the muhadditheen of his time) said,

 

  "Whosoever does not affirm that Allaah is above His heavens, over/upon ('alaa) His Throne, and He is distinct from His creation, must be forced to repent. if he does not repent, then he must be beheaded and then thrown in the garbage dump, so that the Muslims and thimmis (Jews and Christians living under the Islamic State) would not suffer from his stinking smell."
 

And the words of Abdul Qaadir al-Jeelaanee have preceded. Kabban

  • i states (pg. 106), "among the least injurious and most befitting meanings of verse 20:5 – and Allaah knows best – is also ‘subdue’ (qahara) and ‘conquer’ (istawlaa)."

From the preceding discussion it is crystal clear that these meanings are in no way the ‘least injurious’ rather they are from the most evil sayings due to their departing from the belief and understanding of our righteous salaf, may Allaah be pleased with them all. We also now know the true sources of knowledge that Kabbani draws from, the Mu’tazila, even though he may deny it, and try to hide behind quoting some of the scholars of Ahlus Sunnah.

  • Kabbaani states (pg. 189) that both ibn Taymiyyah and ibn al-Qayyim believed that the Prophet (SAW) sits on the Throne with Allaah.

This claim will be dealt with separately under the section on ibn Taymiyyah insha’allaah.
  • Kabbani quotes (pg. 190), ‘Muhammad Saalih al-Uthaymin, a Saudi scholar, writes in his Aqidat al-muslim, translated as "The Muslims Belief": Allah’s establishment on the throne means that He is sitting in person on His throne"

In the English translation of this work, this is how this statement is translated, but when one reads the original Arabic it quickly becomes clear that it is impossible to translate ibn Uthaymeen’s statement as above, here is what ibn Uthaymeen says on pg.11 of the original Arabic,

 

  "We believe that He ‘created the Heavens and the earth in Six days than He made Istawaa upon the Throne, He manages everything.' His Istawaa means that He is in Person above the Throne in a way that befits His Majesty and Greatness. Nobody Knows how He made Istawaa,"
 

We have no idea how the translator of this work could have translated so badly! As for Kabbani then he falls into one of two possibilities:

  1. He relied upon a translation of an Arabic work to accuse someone of disbelief

  2. He was aware of the Arabic but deliberately chose to employ the translation

And the least of these possibilities is evil!

Unfortunately the matter is far more serious then either of the above two possibilities. Much of the information that is contained in the book of Kabbani was put up on the internet by his close followers as part of an internet debate that I was involved in. During the course of this debate the above quote was put up and those that put it up were corrected, then at a later date the same people put up the same quote again and were corrected again by myself. Now a lot of points that arose from this debate are to be found in Kabbani’s book which indicates clearly that he was made aware of the contents of this debate, and that he was aware of the above misquote!

So what is the ruling of one who knows that he is misquoting, and knows that through his misquoting he is accusing another Muslim of disbelief! Is he to be trusted or not?

 

 

 

Source: Load-islam.com

http://www.load-islam.com/artical_det.php?artical_id=549& ; ; ; ; ; ;section=indepth&subsection=Belief

____________________________________________________

May Allah reward you Khair.

 

This juvenile piece has been refuted:

 

"Salafi" Tampering of Classical Texts…
~ The `Aqida of The Imams ~




In attempting to affirm that their false beliefs are supported by the Scholars of the salaf, the modern-day
pseudo-Salafis go to great lengths, either using weak or false hadiths or in actually distorting the
meanings and wordings (tahrif) of statements of scholars of the salaf and the khalaf. Among their beliefs
are the following:

"We believe that Allah is well above His creatures in His Person and His Attributes, because He says: "He is the High, the Great" (2:22); "He is Supreme over His servants, and He is the Wise, the All-aware" (6:18).

We believe that He "created the Heavens and the Earth in six days, then He settled Himself on the throne; He manages everything" (10:3). His "settling on the throne" means that He is sitting in person on His throne in a way that is becoming to His majesty and greatness. Nobody except He knows exactly how He is sitting.

We believe that He is with His creatures while He is still on His throne. He knows their conditions, hears their sayings, sees their deeds, and manages their affairs. He provides for the poor and the broken."1

The `Aqida of Imam Abu Hanifa And Anthropomorphism


In an article entitled "Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyya (Rahimahullah)" prepared by Abu Rumaysah the
following statement is made:

"Abu Hanifa said, when asked of his opinion of the one who says, ‘I do not know whether Allah is above the heavens or on the earth.’ – ‘He has disbelieved, because Allah says, "The Most Merciful rose above the Throne," and His Throne is above His seven heavens.’

He was then asked, ‘what if he said that Allah is above His Throne but he does not know whether the Throne is in the heavens or on the earth?’ He said, ‘He has disbelieved, because He has denied that He is above the heavens, and whosoever denied that He is above the heavens has disbelieved.’"2
In fact this statement attributed to Imam Abu Hanifa is mawdu` and a lie in its attribution to the Imam. al-
Dhahabi himself states3 that everything above was reported from the Imam by Abu Muti` al-Hakam Ibn
`Abd Allah al-Balkhi who is discarded as a narrator according to Imam Ahmad, Ibn `Adi, Abu Dawud, a
liar according to Abu Hatim, and a forger according to al-Dhahabi himself as reported by Ibn Hajar!4



Even so, the text mentioned by the Hanafi authorities is:5

"Abu Hanifa said: ‘Whoever says, ‘I know not whether my Lord is in the heaven or on earth:’ he has committed disbelief.’’ [Abu al-Layth al Samarqandi: Because he has attributed place to the Deity.]

Likewise, whoever says, ‘He is on the Throne and I know not whether the Throne is in the heaven or on the earth.’ [Abu al-Layth: for the same reason.]
Hafiz al-Dhahabi - did not take the above from the original text of Imam Abu Hanifa but from the
anthropomorphist Hanbali Shaykh al-Harawi al-Ansari’s tampered version in his manifesto of Tajsim
titled al-Faruq fil-Sifat. Similarly Ibn al-Qayyim in his anthropomorphist book Ijtima` al-Juyush al-
Islamiyya, adds more tampering - Allah forgive them both.

As to its meaning: al-Bayadi said in Isharat al-Maram:
"This is because he implies that the Creator has a direction and a boundary, and anything that possesses direction and boundary is necessarily created. So this statement explicitly attributes imperfection to Allah Most High. The believer in [divine] corporeality and direction is someone who denies the existence of anything other than objects that can be pointed to with the senses. They deny the Essence of the Deity that is transcendent beyond that. This makes them positively guilty of disbelief."6
Further down in the same text the Imam states:
"If someone says, ‘Where is Allah?’ The answer for him is that Allah existed when there was no ‘where,’ no creation, nothing! And He is the Creator of everything."7
Imam Abu Mansur al-Maturidi states something similar in Sharh al-Fiqh al-Akbar, and others.

Imam Abu Hanifa also said:

"He is something (shay’un) but not like other things, and the meaning of shay’un is affirmed without affirming a body, limbs or organs. And He has no limit and no partner or opposite, and no similitude. And He has a Hand, a Face and a Self. As for what is mentioned in the Qur’an: the Face, the Hand, the Self (nafs) then these are His Attributes without asking ‘How.’"
The above is correct from al-Fiqh al-Akbar, in which he also said: "Not like the hand of creatures, and it
is not a limb." So it is clear that anthropomorphism is precluded.

"And it is not said that His Hand is His Power (qudra) or Favour (ni`ma)because this contains nullification of the Attribute, and this is the saying of the People of Qadr (Jabariyya) and the Mu`tazila. Rather His Hand is His Attribute without asking how, and His Anger (gadb) and Pleasure (rida) are two Attributes without asking ‘How.’"8


The upshot is to preclude the sense of limb while committing the meaning to Allah Most High (tafwid al-
ma`na), i.e. all lofty meanings other than limb are possible, including power and favour.



(1) A Condemned Report Attributed To Imam Malik

Another report used by the "Salafis" to buttress their anthropomorphist claims is the following [Reported
by `Abd Allah Ibn Ahmad in Kitab al-Sunna, and others]:

"`Abd Allah Ibn Nafi` reported: Malik Ibn Anas said: ‘Allah is above the heavens, but His knowledge encompasses everything. Nothing escapes His knowledge.’"
This report is not authentic from Imam Malik.

- From Mutarrif Ibn `Abd Allah - al-Bukhari’s Shaykh - and Habib Ibn Abi Habib on the hadith of
descent ("Our blessed Lord descends in the late third of the night"):

"It is our Blessed and Exalted Lord’s command which descends -- every pre-dawn (kullu sahar);9 as for Him, He is eternally the same, He does not move or go to and fro."10
- Ibn Rushd in Sharh al-`utbiyya - a commentary on an early work of Maliki fiqh by Muhammad Ibn
Ahmad Ibn `Abd al-`Aziz al-`Utbi al-Qurtubi (d. 254 AH) - stated that Malik’s position is:

"The Throne is not Allah’s location of settledness (mawdi’ istiqrar Allah)."11
The report attributing to Imam Malik the words: "Allah is in the heaven and His knowledge is in every
place" is a condemned (munkar), anomalous (shadhdh) report of questionable authenticity narrated
through Ahmad Ibn Hanbal from Surayj Ibn al-Nu`man al-Lu`lu’i 12 from `Abd Allah Ibn Nafi` al-Sa`igh
from Malik.13

Imam Ahmad himself declared `Abd Allah Ibn Nafi` al-Sa`igh weak (da`if), Abu Zur`a frowned at his
name and declared him "condemned" (munkar), al-Bukhari questioned his memorisation, and Ibn `Adi
stated that he transmitted oddities (ghara`ib) from Malik.14



As for the content of the report, Shaykh `Abd al-Fattah Abu Ghudda noted in his commentary on Ibn
`Abd al-Barr’s al-Intiqa’ that it is contradicted by what is firmly established in mass-transmitted
narrations from Malik and by al-Sa`igh’s other report from Malik omitting the above words.15 The report
is made further dubious by the fact that Imam Malik was well known to condemn any statements about
the Essence and Attributes of Allah Most High other than sound reports, particularly statements that
suggest anthropomorphism.16

al-Awza`i said: "Whoever holds on to the rare and unusual positions of the scholars has left Islam."17



(2) Tampered Report - Imam Malik And Istawa


The "Salafi" writes:

"Imam Malik said when replying to the one who asked, ‘How did Allah make istawa?’ (Ascension above the Throne):

‘al-istawa is known, and its ‘how’ is unknown, to have faith in it is obligatory, and to question it is an innovation.’ Then he said to the questioner, ‘I do not think except that you are an innovator’ and he ordered him to be expelled."18
The Sahih version of the above, also in al-Asma' wa al-Sifat, states: ‘the how is inconceivable.’ This
difference is essential, because sitting and place are conceivable concepts. This means that Imam Malik
was saying: sitting, place, and direction are precluded.

It is related by al-Harawi from Imam al-Shafi`i, that he said, Imam Malik was asked about kalam
(Theological rhetoric) and tawhid, so Malik said:

"It is foolishness to think about the Prophet , that he taught this Umma about istinja (cleaning after relieving oneself), but he did not teach them tawhid. And tawhid is what the Prophet said:

‘I was commanded to fight the people until they say: There is no Deity worthy of worship besides Allah.’" [Quoted in Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim]
This report is true and its meaning undisputed. It shows that tawhid is One, not three. Its splitting into
three is one of the innovations of misguidance that created fitna among the Muslims and is reminiscent of
the Byzantine disputations. It is strange that some are still confused over this.









Imam Muhammad Ibn Idris al-Shafi`i (d. 204 AH / 820 CE)


Imam Muhammad Ibn Idris al-Shafi`i said:

"The belief that I am upon, and I saw Our Companions, the Ashab al hadith (People of hadith) - like Imam Malik and Sufyan and others - to be upon is:

Affirming the testimony that none has the right to be worshipped except Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah. And that Allah is above His Throne, above His heaven. He comes close to His creation howsoever He Wills, and He descends to the lowest heaven howsoever He Wills."19
al-Dhahabi in Siyar a`lam al-Nubala’ declared this report a forgery.20

al-Shafi`i said on another occasion:

"To Allah belong Names and Attributes that occur in His Book and His Prophet informed to the nation. It is not possible for anyone to refute (radd) them. So the one who contradicts this after the evidence has been established against him then he is a kafir (disbeliever), and as for before the establishment of the proof then he is excused due to ignorance.
There is no dispute about this report nor its content.



Imam al-Hafiz al-Dhahabi (673-748 AH)


The "Salafi" writes: Imam al-Dhahabi said in the final lines of his most excellent work, al-`Uluw li al-
`Aliyy al-Ghaffar (pages. 286-287)…[…]

I have this edition in front of me and the title is incorrectly reported. The actual title is: Mukhtasar al-
`Uluw i.e. the abridgment - in 300 pages - edited by the chief innovator of our time, Nasir al-Din al-
Albani. The complete edition is not that of al-Albani but that of Hasan al-Saqqaf - in over 600 pages -
which I also have.

Now, if it was a "most excellent work" then why did al-Dhahabi disclaim it later in his adult career (he
wrote the book as a young man)? He wrote on its manuscript with his own hand:

"I have realised it [this book] contains baseless narrations and statements by many people that spoke loosely, and so I neither subscribe to those expressions nor follow those people in them - may Allah forgive them - nor do I consider them binding upon me as long as I live, and this is my firm conviction, and I know that Allah - there is nothing whatsoever like Him."21
Al-Hafiz al-Dhahabi and 'Ilm al-Kalam


Hafiz al-Dhahabi said:

"It it authentically related from al-Daraqutni that he said: There is nothing more despised by me than 'ilm al-Kalam (innovated speech and rhetoric).... [This is where al-Daraqutni's words end. The rest is al-Dhahabi's]... I say: No person should ever enter into 'ilm al-kalam, nor argumentation. Rather, he should be a salafi (a follower of the salaf)." 22
The above is incorrect. Hafiz al-Dhahabi said: "I say: The man [i.e. al-Daraqutuni] never entered into kalam... rather he was a [true] salafi."

Note: Unlike today's "Salafis" the salaf did not lie nor tamper meanings and words like Ahl al-Kitab, Rafidis and other sects.




Falsification of Imam al-Qurtubi's Position on Anthropomorphism



The "Salafi" writes:

"Al-Qurtubee said concerning the saying of Allah, the Most High, "Then he ascended (istawaa) the Throne", We have explained the sayings of the Scholars regarding this issue in the book 'al-Asnaa fee Sharh al-Asmaa al-Husnaa' and we mentioned fourteen different sayings therein"
I have that book also and al-Qurtubi in it makes abundantly clear that he is against the position of the anthropomorphists!

"up until he said, "And the Salaf of the very first times - may Allah be pleased with them all - never used to negate direction (al-jihah) for Allah and nor did they used to express this (negation). Rather, they, and all of the others, used to speak with its affirmation for Allah, the Most High just as His Book has spoken about it and just as His Messengers informed of it. And not a single one of the Salaf denied that his ascending (istawaa) the Throne was real and true (haqeeqah) (as opposed to metaphorical, majaaz)."

The continuation of al-Qurtubi's words quoted in Mukhtasar al-`Uluw (p. 286) states:

"And He mentioned His Throne specifically because it is the greatest of His creations. However, they actually did not know the modality or howness of his Istiwa' for the reality of its modality cannot be known."

NOTE: The original in al-Dhahabi's `Uluw [full edition, 600 pages edited by Hasan al-Saqqaf] here states (p. 574): "for its reality cannot be known." This is also what is found in al-Qurtubi's Tafsir.

This tampering is one among many examples of the mendacity of al-Albani and his followers! The reason for this particular tahrif is that when the Salafiyya were faced with the reality of Tafwid among the Salaf, they invented the subdivision of Tafwid al-Kayfiyya so as to deny that the Salaf actually practiced Tafwid al-Ma`na. So when proof to the latter comes up, they deny it or manipulate it, as in this case.

THEN al-Qurtubi continues, in his Tafsir:

"I SAY: the `Uluw [exaltation] of Allah Most High and His irtifa` [elevation] are an expression of the `uluw of His Majesty, Attributes, and Dominion. Meaning: There is nothing above Him whatsoever in the sense of Majesty and its qualities, nor with Him as a partner. Rather, He is the Most High in absolute and unconditional terms - exalted is He!"

------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------

See the introduction and appendices to our translation of Sayyid Yusuf al-Rifa`i's Nasiha to the Ulema of Najd for many more examples of their tampering and misreprentations of the Ulema of Islam and their books.

As for the Ghunya: it is not an integrally preserved text and the copies we have today are corrupt. As for the book Ijtima` al-Juyush al-Islamiyya it is crammed with forgeries - like al-Sunna by `Abd Allah ibn Ahmad - and Ibn al-Qayyim is a notorious Mujassim.



Conclusion:

Those who call themselves Salafiyyah do not mind lying about the Ulema they quote; make up their own definitions of tafwid and ta'wil; and generally have no idea of the accurate positions of the Salaf and the latter are innocent of them. Allah is our refuge from their bid`a and dalala. And Allah knows best.

Hajj Gibril
GF Haddad ©






NOTES:


1 The Muslim’s Belief by Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Salih al-`Uthaymin.
2 Hafiz al-Dhahabi, al-`Uluw; also Sharh `Aqida al-Tahawiyyah of Ibn Abi al-`Izz al-Hanafi.
3 Hafiz al-Dhahabi, Mukhtasar al-`Uluw - page. 136, Number. 118; al-`Uluw page. 391, Number. 327.
4 Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Hajar al-`Asqalani, Lisan al-Mizan [2:407].
5 Imam Abu Hanifa in al-Fiqh al-Absat - (Azhariyya ed. pages. 49-51).
6 As quoted in Muhammad Ibn al-Hasan Zahid al-Kawthari, "Khuturat al-Qawl bi al-Jiha" ("The Gravity of the Doctrine That
Attributes Direction [to Allah Most High]") in his Maqalat (pages. 368-369).
7 Quoted in al-`Uluw of Hafiz al-Dhahabi, also in Sharh `Aqida al-Tahawiyyah of Ibn Abi al-`Izz al-Hanafi.
8 Quoted in Fiqh al-Akbar Page Numbers. 36-37.
9 The bracketed words are only in the wording cited by al-Qadi `Iyad in his Tartib al-Madarik (2:44).
10 Narrated from Mutarrif by Ibn `Abd al-Barr in al-Tamhid (7:143) with a weak chain because of Jami` Ibn Sawada as per al-
Daraqutni in Ibn Hajar al-`Asqalani’s Lisan al-Mizan (2:93). Also narrated from Salih Ibn Ayyub from Habib Ibn Abi Habib -
who is very weak - by Hafiz al-Dhahabi in Siyar a`lam al-Nubala' (8:418). The latter reported in his Mizan al-I`tidal (1:452)
from Ibn `Adi’s Kamil (2:818) the opinion that all of Ibn Abi Habib’s narrations are forged but this is an extreme statement in
light of three factors: (a) Ibn `Abd al-Barr in al-Tamhid (24:177) mentioned Habib as merely weak, adding: "His reports from
Malik are full of mistakes and condemned matters"; (b) Salih Ibn Ayyub said: "I mentioned this report to Yahya Ibn Bukayr
and he said: "Excellent, by Allah! and I did not hear it from Malik." Narrated by Hafiz al-Dhahabi who describes Ibn Bukayr
in Tadhkirat al-Huffaz. (2:420) as "the muhaddith of Egypt, the Imam and trustworthy Hadith Master... one of the vessels of
knowledge together with truthfulness and complete reliability... Where is the like of Ibn Bukayr in his leadership in the
Religion, his insight in fatwa, and the abundance of his learning?" (c) Ibn `Abd al-Barr in al-Tamhid (7:143) also narrates this
report from Habib, then goes on to narrate it from Mutarrif, adding: "It is possible that the matter be as Malik said, and Allah
knows best." It is established that Jami` did narrate from Mutarrif, as stated by al-Mizzi in Tahdhib al-Kamal (28:71).
11 al-Hafiz Ibn Hajar al-`Asqalani quoted in his Fath al-Bari (1959 ed. 7:124, Number. 3592).
12 Misspelt Shurayh in al-Saqqaf’s edition of al-`Uluw (page. 396, Number. 340) and al-Mahdi’s edition of al-Shari`a (page.
293, Numbers. 663-664). Shurayh Ibn al-Nu`man al-Sa`idi al-Kufi is a Tabi`i who died before al-Sa`igh was born.
13 Ibn `Abd al-Barr, al-Intiqa (pg. 71); al-Dhahabi, Mukhtasar al-`Uluw (pg. 247); & al-Ajurri, al-Shari`a (pgs. 293 #663-664).
14 Hafiz al-Dhahabi, Mizan al-I`tidal (2:513-514, Number. 4647); al-`Uqayli, al-Du`afa’ (2:311); Ibn `Adi, al-Kamil (4:242,
Number. 1070=4:1556); Abu Hatim, al-Jarh wa al-Ta`dil (5:183); Ibn Hajar al-`Asqalani, Tahdhib al-Tahdhib (6:46-47,
Number. 99). Dr. Nur al-Din `Itr, however, states in his margins on Hafiz al-Dhahabi’s al-Mughni fi al-Du`afa' (1:513,
Number. 3396) that al-Sa`igh is very reliable when narrating from Imam Malik and that Ibn Hajar declared him trustworthy
(thiq a) in al-Taqrib. Yet, the latter grading was downgraded to "truthful" (saduq) by Shu`ayb al-Arna`ut and Ma`ruf in al-
Tahrir (2:277, Number. 3659). al-Albani in his notes in Mukhtasar al-`Uluw (page. 140) criticized Imam al-Kawthari for citing
al-Sa`igh as weak in his introduction to Hafiz al-Bayhaqi’s al-Asma' wa al-Sifat (p. Ø), but he himself cites him as weak in al-
Silsila al-Da `ifa (2:231-232) as pointed out by Shaykh Hasan al-Saqqaf in his edition of al-`Uluw (page. 397, note. 708).
15 In Ibn `Abd al-Barr, al-Intiqa' (page. 71, note. 3 and page. 73).
16 For example, Imam Malik said: "Allah is neither ascribed a limit nor likened with anything" (la yuhaddad wa la yushabbah);
Qadi Abu Bakr Ibn al-`Arabi, Ahkam al-Qur’an (4:1740).
17 Cited by Hafiz al-Dhahabi, Siyar a`lam al-Nubala' (1997 ed. 7:99).
18 Quoted in al-Asma wa al-Sifat, Page Number. 516.
19 Quoted in `Awn al-Ma`bud (13:41), and Ibn Abu Ya`la reports it in Tabaqat al-Hanabila (1:283) with a chain of narration
linked back to Imam al-Shafi`i.
20 Imam al-Dhahabi, Siyar a`lam al-Nubala' (8:412).
21 As reported by the Hadith Master (hafiz) Ibn Nasir al-Din al-Dimashqi in his handwriting on the front page of the original
manuscript of al-`Uluw.
22 Hafiz al-Dhahabi, Siyar a'lam al-Nubala' - 16:457.

As far as the contention that Kabbani lied, this is the constant drivel that permeates from your cult. Your cult's position is one of deception, never actually coming out and showing your true colors, but hiding your lies in a little bit of truth. You cannot even be intellectually honest and come out and state that you are an anthropomorphist, or that your aqiida supports anthropomorphism.

Also, according to your cult, no one has been able to translate the heretical theology of your doctors, except when it works in your favor. I have witnessed the attempts of your doctors to tamper with classical works, your sect holds no crediblity. If one must lie about small matters, then they cannot be trusted with larger issues.

This is yet another example of the dishonesty of your group

http://www.livingislam.org/trs_e.html

 

 

 

 

So when such statements are made, [qoute]"We have no idea how the translator of this work could have translated so badly! As for Kabbani then he falls into one of two possibilities:

  1. He relied upon a translation of an Arabic work to accuse someone of disbelief

  2. He was aware of the Arabic but deliberately chose to employ the translation

And the least of these possibilities is evil!"

[/quote]

 

You left out another possibility that you group is simply being dishonest. It would not be the first time, and this places huge doubt on the credibility of your views and claims.

I have no reason to doubt Kabbani, but I have many reasons to mistrust your group.

 

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9544& ; ;PN=1&TPN=1

 

You will say anything to sneak your deviant views into the minds of believers.



Edited by Andalus
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