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Interfaith Dialogue
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buddyman
 
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Quote buddyman Replybullet Posted: 17 July 2007 at 8:35am

Originally posted by islamispeace

"Mohammed murdered. Jesus have life. Mohammed sinned. Jesus NEVER sinned...think about that."

Complete and utter nonsense.  I thought you were better than that buddyman.  Slandering the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)?  What do you know about the blessed Muhammad (pbuh)?  He was no murderer.  He was the greatest man to have ever lived, and the most beloved to Allah (swt).  Do not slander him.  He was a brother to Jesus and they both worshiped Allah (swt) alone. 

Islamispeace,

Are you serious? You say Mohammed never killed?

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buddyman
 
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Quote buddyman Replybullet Posted: 17 July 2007 at 8:39am
Originally posted by paarsurrey

Hi

I have gone through the posts and would like to say that the original poster is a Christian and uless we define the Prophets and have criteria for a truthful prophet and criteria of a false prophet we cannot discern false prophet from a true prophet.

To start with I would quote three passages from OTBible:

"If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, 'Let us follow other gods' (gods you have not known) 'and let us worship them,' you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you" (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NIV).

Another test for determining false prophets in the Torah is found in Deuteronomy 18:20-22. The text is as follows:

"But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."

"You may say to yourselves, 'How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?' If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him" (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NIV).

The penalty for false prophecy, according to the biblical context, is capital punishment (per Deuteronomy 13:1-5).

I would like to point out that our Prophet Muhammad , Peace be upon him,Khatumun Nabiyyeen, could not be killed by the Jews and Christians though they were the world power at that time, and great in numbers, and they had been clearly commanded in OTBible to kill a false prophet and should not be afraid of him.

This proves beyond doubt that Muhammad was a truthful Prophet .

Paul was a false Prophet and hence he was killed.

Thanks

These are very good points, but you forget one thing. The false prophets worshipped OTHER Gods. The didn't worship the same God. Not only that, there has only been ONE God that gave the Ten Commandments. One of the Commandments was to rest on the Seventh Day Sabbath. So if a false prophets has visions and dreams and they come to pass, but they do not agree with the previous prophets, then he is a false prophet.

Please re-read the original post. I believe somewhere in there it says that the have to keep the testimony of God which is the Law....

Also, Jesus was also put to death, and we know what he said was the truth. If you disagree with Jesus, then you are not a true Muslim.

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buddyman
 
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Quote buddyman Replybullet Posted: 17 July 2007 at 8:45am
Originally posted by rami

Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

Jesus said beware of those who speak in my name, the first person to speak in jesus's name while having never met him  [ie transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ] or known his teachings was paul yet when you look at the bible and christianity today he is the key figure whose teachings are followed even more so than jesus himself.

Had his words been taken out of the bible you would see a different Christianity than the one you have today.

Unlike paul the Prophet muhammad [sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam] did not speak in the name of Jesus or with his authority he was a prophet in his own right with his own book of revelations, the community he was sent amongst where not Christians so Jesus warning his followers about false prophets after can not apply to him since islam did not primarily spread to Christian areas until after the prophets time.

look also at religion prior to Christianity, all faiths and all prophets had been monotheistic for thousands of years there message of one god had been the same, then some 300 years after the death of christ out of nowhere the doctrine of the trinity is invented [as it is not explicitly mentioned anywhere in the bible] and then forced onto the wrold.

Buddymann read the forum description and stick to the forum guidlines.

Actually Paul did meet Jesus. Jesus appreared to Paul while he was on his way to persecute the Christians. Also, how do you know someone? Jesus said to know him, right? Do you know what else he said about knowing him?

How come everytime I post something that you guys don't agree with, you say to stick with forum guidelines?

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buddyman
 
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Quote buddyman Replybullet Posted: 17 July 2007 at 9:10am

By the way, I'd also like to mention to you people that I in no way try to insult anybody. I grew up with a Muslim man. He was from Iraq. He was a wonderful person. I loved him like a Father figure. He was always very respectful, kind and generous.

This does not mean, when I post something that you have to TAKE it as an insult. The mere fact that you guys deny Jesus the Christ as God is blasphemy in my eyes. I still let you have your opinion, just as God lets us have our opinion.

I believe in a loving God. A God that wants us to come to him willfully, not forcefully.

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buddyman
 
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Quote buddyman Replybullet Posted: 17 July 2007 at 9:13am
Thus, in 625, the Meccans sent an army numbering about 3,000 against Medina, the city where Mohammed and the Muslims had fled to when they escaped from Mecca several years before. Mohammed elected to meet this army on the field of battle, and the Muslims were seriously defeated, with Mohammed himself being wounded and sent fleeing from the battlefield. Because of internal dissentions, the Meccans failed to follow up on their advantage and pursue the Muslims. Two years later, though, they returned and attempted to lay siege to Medina. Being forewarned of the Meccan return, Mohammed acted upon the advice of a Persian friend and ordered a ditch dug around the weaker defence quarters of Medina as protection. This artifice, previously unknown in Arabia, hindered the Meccans and their allies, who lifted the siege and departed 39.

After this "victory" Mohammed and the Muslims became encouraged, and stepped up their raiding behaviour. Many Bedouin tribes were drawn to the Muslim circle by the military victories and prospects of treasure, adding their strength to Mohammed's. It was at this time that Mohammed finished the expulsion of the several Jewish tribes from Medina, and expropriated their lands and properties for himself and his followers.

Victory over Mecca was finally obtained in 630 AD. Using an insignificant incident to provoke a clash of arms, Mohammed led his followers against Mecca, this just a year after Mohammed had signed a ten year peace treaty with that city. The Meccans, who were recognising the solidification of Mohammed's power and the ascendancy of his arms, folded with barely a fight, and the Muslims entered victoriously into the city. As a result of these years of piracy, Muhammed had amassed great personal wealth and power, and Arab tribes from all over the peninsula flocked to him.

During the course of all this fighting and raiding, Mohammed and his Muslim followers developed a love for fighting and loot which came from the life of piracy.

"When he was at the head of a robber community (in Medina) it is probable that the demoralizing influence began to be felt; it was then that men who had never broken an oath learned that they might evade their obligations, and that men to whom the blood of the clansmen had been as their own began to shed it with impunity in the cause of God; and that lying and treachery, in the cause of Islam, received divine approval, hesitation to perjure oneself in that cause being represented as a weakness. It was then, too, that Moslems became distinguished by the obscenity of their language. It was then, too, that the coveting of goods and wives (possessed by unbelievers) was avowed without discouragement from the prophet." 40

What honour these men had from their previous upbringing in the culture of Arabic tradition, what morality they may have engendered from their traditional raising, slowly eroded as the sin in their lives increased and increased. As they became increasingly hardened in their hearts, and their consciences seared, crimes which would before have been unthinkable to them gradually became commonplace.

Islam as a vehicle to wealth and power is clearly demonstrated. Muhammed himself received, by "divine" decree, a fifth of all booty captured in war,

"To whichever village you go and settle therein, there is your share therein, and whichever village disobeys Allah and His Messenger, its one-fifth is for Allah and His Messenger and the remainder is for you." 41

The rest, of course, went to the Muslim followers who took part in battle. Hence, it was good money to be in the business of warfare as a Muslim. After conquest, Islam was further strengthened by the "three choices" option imposed upon conquered peoples. Subject nations were offered one of three choices: Accept Islam and become members of Dar es-Salaam; pay the jizyah, the unbelievers tax; or death 42. Either way, Islam benefited materially. Unbelievers either became Muslims and contributed to the enhancement of Islamic warmaking, booty-gathering, and social strength; or they became direct sources of revenue for Islamic states; or else they ceased to be "in the way" of Islam's expansion. Mohammed and his religion's attraction to wealth truly bears witness to the Biblical record found in I Timothy 6:10, "For the love of money is the root of all evil...".

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paarsurrey
 
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Quote paarsurrey Replybullet Posted: 17 July 2007 at 9:44am
Originally posted by buddyman

Originally posted by paarsurrey

I would like to point out that our Prophet Muhammad , Peace be upon him,Khatumun Nabiyyeen, could not be killed by the Jews and Christians though they were the world power at that time, and great in numbers, and they had been clearly commanded in OTBible to kill a false prophet and should not be afraid of him.

This proves beyond doubt that Muhammad was a truthful Prophet .

Paul was a false Prophet and hence he was killed.

Thanks

Also, Jesus was also put to death, and we know what he said was the truth. If you disagree with Jesus, then you are not a true Muslim.

Hi 

You mentioned in your post that Muhammad was a false Prophet (I take refuge from God) the the Jews and Christian must have killed him as per the OTBible, since they could not kill him that single point proves beyond doubt that Muhammad was a true Prophet and all Christians and Jews including the Pope and others are sinful and wrogdoers in terms of Deuteronomy 13:

12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in 13 that wicked men have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. Destroy it completely, [a] both its people and its livestock. 16 Gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God. It is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt. 17 None of those condemned things [b] shall be found in your hands, so that the LORD will turn from his fierce anger; he will show you mercy, have compassion on you, and increase your numbers, as he promised on oath to your forefathers, 18 because you obey the LORD your God, keeping all his commands that I am giving you today and doing what is right in his eyes.

The Jews and Christians did attack Muhammad and his followers but were defeated and routed out by Muhammad SAW.

As far as Jesus is concerned, he was never killed by Jews on the Cross, though he was put on Cross but he was saved by God. I disagree with you but I don't disagree with Jesus.

Paul was killed as he was a false Prophet.

Thanks

 

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Doo-bop
 
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Quote Doo-bop Replybullet Posted: 17 July 2007 at 9:57am
Originally posted by paarsurrey

Originally posted by buddyman

Originally posted by paarsurrey

I would like to point out that our Prophet Muhammad , Peace be upon him,Khatumun Nabiyyeen, could not be killed by the Jews and Christians though they were the world power at that time, and great in numbers, and they had been clearly commanded in OTBible to kill a false prophet and should not be afraid of him.

This proves beyond doubt that Muhammad was a truthful Prophet .

Paul was a false Prophet and hence he was killed.

Thanks

Also, Jesus was also put to death, and we know what he said was the truth. If you disagree with Jesus, then you are not a true Muslim.

Hi 

You mentioned in your post that Muhammad was a false Prophet (I take refuge from God) the the Jews and Christian must have killed him as per the OTBible, since they could not kill him that single point proves beyond doubt that Muhammad was a true Prophet and all Christians and Jews including the Pope and others are sinful and wrogdoers in terms of Deuteronomy 13:

12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in 13 that wicked men have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. Destroy it completely, [a] both its people and its livestock. 16 Gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God. It is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt. 17 None of those condemned things [b] shall be found in your hands, so that the LORD will turn from his fierce anger; he will show you mercy, have compassion on you, and increase your numbers, as he promised on oath to your forefathers, 18 because you obey the LORD your God, keeping all his commands that I am giving you today and doing what is right in his eyes.

The Jews and Christians did attack Muhammad and his followers but were defeated and routed out by Muhammad SAW.

As far as Jesus is concerned, he was never killed by Jews on the Cross, though he was put on Cross but he was saved by God. I disagree with you but I don't disagree with Jesus.

Paul was killed as he was a false Prophet.

Thanks

 

So why was John the Baptist killed?  Was he a false prophet?

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peacemaker
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Quote peacemaker Replybullet Posted: 17 July 2007 at 10:47am

Assalamu Alaikum and hi everyone,

Please engage in discussion and don't post links or materials from anti-Islam propaganda sources; there is enough of that elsewhere. 

Once again, engage in a sincere dialogue, and comply with guidelines:

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4589& ; ;PN=1

Peace

Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13
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