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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 18 May 2010 at 8:21pm
Originally posted by JOUBERAR

Originally posted by honeto

Hi,
for me its simple to recognize, true from false. In present times it is most clear that what prophet Mohammed (pbuh) taught has no match. In terms of the most important aspects and teachings of a belief he is consistent unlike anyone else in these times. His teachings of Absolute Monotheism turn out to be the most consistent and reinstate God's true status as traced in OT, as One of One. Through his teachings we learn that if God has a favorite, its the one who lives by his commands the most. And that salvation is achieved through obeying Him, and seeking His Mercy and Forgiveness. All genuine ideas that appeal to the intellect and common sense. We know the prophet did not seek his own glory, rather he always Glorified the only One worthy of such, God Almighty. The prophet always made it clear that he was a servant of God, for a noble service he was sent, to guide the mankind to the right. And its through the guidance that came through him that we have a chance to be guided into serving our purpose as intended in directing our services and worship to none other than its rightful owner, God Almighty rather than those created by Him.
That speaks the truth for who the prophet was, the verdict is too evident if it is the truth we seek, he was indeed a prophet from God, a sign of God's Mercy for all of us. Those who benefit from this mercy will see it then, those who do not benefit from this mercy will seek it then, but it will be too late then.
Hasan
 
Can you be more specific what Muhammad "taught has no match" or can I ask you how would you descride from where does the Quran originated from and on what principalities is the Quran based on? 




Jouberar,
sure, I can be more specific, Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) came at a time when humanity was without pure guidance of worshiping to their Creator, God Almighty.
Guidance that came through him only shows us how to direct our worship and service purely to where it belongs, not just in words and claims rather in practice.
Let me get a response on this from you first, and we will talk about the Quran after that. I prefer to talk one thing at a time, trust me its the best way.

Hasan



Edited by honeto - 18 May 2010 at 8:24pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Angel
 
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2010 at 8:10am
Originally posted by islamispeace

There are various reasons, including the fact that there exist no contradictions in the Quran.  If a human had written the Quran, eventually discrepancies and contradictions would have arisen.  We found no such examples.
 
There are contradictions in the qu'ran and there are some threads on them, a search here at IC that can be done. the amount of wings on a Angel is different and so are the days according to God, the question is which is it, these are 2 examples of contradictions that pop up but no satisfactory explanation is given which are thoughts that people have as to why while trying not to presume to know God.
if you're gonna get into contradictions, it might be a good idea to do a search for threads on the topic. 
 
Second, the Quran challenges those who deny its origins to produce just three verses like it.  Those familiar with Arabic know exactly what the challenge is talking about.
 
Well you might be right there that those who know Arabic will know. But the challenge has been done, I remember shortly after 9/11 that a fake verse was created and it was posed as coming from the qu'ran, those who know the qu'ran knew it was false but those don't know the qu'ran thought it was part of it and easily fooled. that 9/11 verse is classed as an urban legend and a hoax.
 
Historically, Arabic literature and poetry has been classified along 16 styles, all of which can be imitated.  However, scholars agree that the Quran is a style of its own. Nothing before it or after it in the entire history of the Arabic language has imitated the Quran's literary style.  That is proof that the author was not any man, but God.  The Bible on the other hand has been redacted (as you admitted) by man.
 
I disagree, i think any book can be studied upon and re-created, man can be quite creative when he wants to be. But I don't think the holy books will be touched upon any body that would do so nowadays would be a fool! with all the backlash and that...Wink
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Angel
 
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2010 at 8:49am
Originally posted by JOUBERAR

Since when did God write Quran since when please dont try to convince me with your lies, I will take on anybody in the world to proof to them that Quran is not God's word.
 
well, it goes like this, God gave His scriptures from the begining and over time it got corupted people became corupted and 'supposedly' lost their way, fast forward to 610CE this is the time that qu'ran came to be. It was revealed from God to Muhammed through Archangel Gabriel, since no man has seen God.
Just a little point to point out is that islam didn't start then, it was around for a long time, but since the 'perfection' (according to muslims) of islam this is when the new time, new year began.
 
No words from humans are in the text.LET SEE WHERE DO YOU CAME UPON IS THIS YOUR OWN OPINION.
Who revealed the Quran to Muhammad nobody but himself lying to the poor old Arabs who simply believed his lies.
 
 
If you actually done your studies! It is God through Archangel Gabriel.
 
yes, well...is Jesus lying when he saw the devil while in the desert ALONE?? is he lying to the poor folks later on about overcoming the devil's temptation? Wink
 
 
Just tip: Whether you believe this to be truth or not is up to you and what you believe in but if you want to get to know the otherside and why, you might like to put aside your own personal issue and learn, that's not to say that you cannot put forth your personal opinion/belief on such things but its good to stick with general facts and knowledge of a topic.   
 
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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JOUBERAR
 
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Quote JOUBERAR Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2010 at 1:28pm
Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by JOUBERAR

Originally posted by honeto

Hi,
for me its simple to recognize, true from false. In present times it is most clear that what prophet Mohammed (pbuh) taught has no match. In terms of the most important aspects and teachings of a belief he is consistent unlike anyone else in these times. His teachings of Absolute Monotheism turn out to be the most consistent and reinstate God's true status as traced in OT, as One of One. Through his teachings we learn that if God has a favorite, its the one who lives by his commands the most. And that salvation is achieved through obeying Him, and seeking His Mercy and Forgiveness. All genuine ideas that appeal to the intellect and common sense. We know the prophet did not seek his own glory, rather he always Glorified the only One worthy of such, God Almighty. The prophet always made it clear that he was a servant of God, for a noble service he was sent, to guide the mankind to the right. And its through the guidance that came through him that we have a chance to be guided into serving our purpose as intended in directing our services and worship to none other than its rightful owner, God Almighty rather than those created by Him.
That speaks the truth for who the prophet was, the verdict is too evident if it is the truth we seek, he was indeed a prophet from God, a sign of God's Mercy for all of us. Those who benefit from this mercy will see it then, those who do not benefit from this mercy will seek it then, but it will be too late then.
Hasan
 
Can you be more specific what Muhammad "taught has no match" or can I ask you how would you descride from where does the Quran originated from and on what principalities is the Quran based on? 




Jouberar,
sure, I can be more specific, Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) came at a time when humanity was without pure guidance of worshiping to their Creator, God Almighty.
Guidance that came through him only shows us how to direct our worship and service purely to where it belongs, not just in words and claims rather in practice.
Let me get a response on this from you first, and we will talk about the Quran after that. I prefer to talk one thing at a time, trust me its the best way.

Hasan

 Hi,
for me its simple to recognize, true from false Honento's own words.
 
Lets say begin with the langauge.[/quote]
 
Note from Moderation: Discussing issues you have with the Quran is ok. Copying and pasting work from the internet and mergining into your own words as if it is your words is a bit juvenile and perhaps dishonest. Furthermore, your copy and paste was a bit over redundant with a lot of claims that make it nearly impossible to refute given its lengthy list of assertions. ALso, I doubt you even understand what you pasted. Feel free to post your position about the language in the Quran and use the article you pasted as a reference. And one last item. This thread is beginning to loose its coherence. Try and stay on topic of the threads. Start a new topic about your concerns of the Quran (its language) if you feel so moved to have this discussed. Thanks.


Edited by Andalus - 19 May 2010 at 4:41pm
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JOUBERAR
 
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Quote JOUBERAR Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2010 at 3:20pm
Originally posted by Angel

Originally posted by JOUBERAR

Since when did God write Quran since when please dont try to convince me with your lies, I will take on anybody in the world to proof to them that Quran is not God's word.
 
well, it goes like this, God gave His scriptures from the begining and over time it got corupted people became corupted and 'supposedly' lost their way, fast forward to 610CE this is the time that qu'ran came to be. It was revealed from God to Muhammed through Archangel Gabriel, since no man has seen God.
Just a little point to point out is that islam didn't start then, it was around for a long time, but since the 'perfection' (according to muslims) of islam this is when the new time, new year began.
 
No words from humans are in the text.LET SEE WHERE DO YOU CAME UPON IS THIS YOUR OWN OPINION.
Who revealed the Quran to Muhammad nobody but himself lying to the poor old Arabs who simply believed his lies.
 
 
If you actually done your studies! It is God through Archangel Gabriel.
 
yes, well...is Jesus lying when he saw the devil while in the desert ALONE?? is he lying to the poor folks later on about overcoming the devil's temptation? Wink
 
 
Just tip: Whether you believe this to be truth or not is up to you and what you believe in but if you want to get to know the otherside and why, you might like to put aside your own personal issue and learn, that's not to say that you cannot put forth your personal opinion/belief on such things but its good to stick with general facts and knowledge of a topic.   
 
 
Archangel Gabriel you say.
How many Qurans.
I think you must go and do your studies.
Have you except there was only one quran ,so  I say that there were many qurans.
 
 
"Father Zakaria" is a Islam bashing "Coptic", and again you are pasting his polemical work "word for word". His work is recycled tired polemics. Please use his claims in your posts if you wish, and make sure you cite him. I am thinking that a new topic should be opened concerning the language of the Quran. This is all getting off topic from the thread.


Edited by Andalus - 19 May 2010 at 4:50pm
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islamispeace
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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2010 at 9:44pm
Hi Angel!  Nice to be talking to you. 

There are contradictions in the qu'ran and there are some threads on them, a search here at IC that can be done. the amount of wings on a Angel is different and so are the days according to God, the question is which is it, these are 2 examples of contradictions that pop up but no satisfactory explanation is given which are thoughts that people have as to why while trying not to presume to know God.
if you're gonna get into contradictions, it might be a good idea to do a search for threads on the topic.


I tried to search for this apparent angel "contradiction" but found nothing on the forum.  However, I also looked in the Quran and the only verse I could find which specifically mentions angels and how many wings they have is 35:01 which states:

"All praise is due to God, Originator of the heavens and the earth, who causes the angels to be (His) message-bearers, endowed with wings, two, or three, or four. [Unceasingly] He adds to His creation whatever He wills: for, verily, God has the power to will anything."

As you can see, it specifically mentions that angels could have a different number of wings.  Some translations also add "pairs" in parentheses.  So, where is the contradiction? 

Concerning the number of days, I assume you mean the alleged contradiction between 32:5 and 70:4.  Here are the verses:

"He governs all that exists, from the celestial space to the earth; and in the end all shall ascend unto Him [for judgment] on a Day the length whereof will be [like] a thousand years of your reckoning."

"all the angels and all the inspiration [ever granted to man] ascend unto Him [daily,] in a day the length whereof is [like] fifty thousand years…"
 

As you can see, there is no contradiction, just a misreading of what the verse is actually saying.  None of the verses actually state what is the equivalent of 1 day to God.  The first verse is talking about the Day of Judgment, which it says will be like 1,000 human years (it seems to be saying that Judgment Day will last 1,000 years).  The second verse is talking about how long it takes the angels to ascend to God.  As you can see, neither verse is saying "any specific day is equivalent to (1,000 years or 50,000 years)..."  

Well you might be right there that those who know Arabic will know. But the challenge has been done, I remember shortly after 9/11 that a fake verse was created and it was posed as coming from the qu'ran, those who know the qu'ran knew it was false but those don't know the qu'ran thought it was part of it and easily fooled. that 9/11 verse is classed as an urban legend and a hoax.


I don't see how this answers the challenge.  As I elaborated, the Quran is classified as a distinct form of Arabic literature, one which has never been imitated.  Muslims believe the original Arabic is the perfect, unaltered and error-free word of God.  Translations are not considered to be from the divine.  Therefore, any translation in any language is not considered to be perfect but the original Arabic is and that is demonstrable.  I advise you to look at the following website which explains the whole issue is detail:

http://www.theinimitablequran.com/index.html

I disagree, i think any book can be studied upon and re-created, man can be quite creative when he wants to be. But I don't think the holy books will be touched upon any body that would do so nowadays would be a fool! with all the backlash and that...Wink
  

Obviously, you are not familiar with the history.  Many individuals have tried to meet the challenge.  Ibn al-Mukaffa tried to meet the challenge and is said to have found it impossible and tore up what he had written.         
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Angel
 
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 20 May 2010 at 8:17am
Originally posted by JOUBERAR

Archangel Gabriel you say.
 
yes Big%20smile
 
 
How many Qurans.
I think you must go and do your studies.
Have you except there was only one quran ,so  I say that there were many qurans.
 
 
what on earth are you going on about??
 
And what is your answer to my question in previous post about Jesus?
 
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by Angel - 20 May 2010 at 8:20am
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 20 May 2010 at 8:23am
@islamispeace, I'm not going to discuss here in this thread. There is also the old forum to searchSmile
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