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Interfaith Dialogue
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JOUBERAR
 
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Quote JOUBERAR Replybullet Posted: 13 May 2010 at 5:16am
Originally posted by islamispeace

Originally posted by JOUBERAR

Originally posted by islamispeace

Originally posted by JOUBERAR

Originally posted by Sawtul Khilafah

Originally posted by Jasonchristian

Yes, Mohammed fits the false prophet profile to a tee.  He denied the Lord Jesus Christ, and his followers today prove that they are not Children of God by their hatred and wicked deeds.  The whole world sees them as evil.

 

"The whole world was astonished and followed the beast." (Revelation 13 of the BIBLE)

So if the whole world is against Islam, that means Islam is against the Beast and according to the Bible (revelation chapter 13) the Beast is allied to the False Prophet, so this means that Muslims are the enemies of the Beast and the false prophet!!!

 
Islam is the beast that Muhammad the false prophet had created, so do not use the bible as your reference cos muslims do not believe in the bible and they curse the bible to be corrupt.


Jumping from thread to thread again, eh Jouby?  OK, since you decided to open your big mouth again, please continue by answering the unanswered questions you ran away from in this thread. 
 
What unanswered question are you nagging about a contraidction which is not contradiction why don't you nag about all the errors in the Quran?


I am nagging about how you ran off after failing to disprove that there is a contradiction.  Even a child would see the contradiction.  It practically screams at you. 

You can also answer the questions I raised earlier in the thread about the Torah, which neither you nor your buddy Shibboleth were able to answer.  Well actually, Shibboleth at least tried, whereas you were busy pontificating on irrelevant issues. 
 
Are you worried about who wrote the Torah.
 

God: According to Jewish tradition, God 'wrote' the Torah. That is to say, God is the author. However, even among most Orthodox, it was a human (usually identified as Moses) who actually penned the parchment. The 'midrash' very fancifully has God actually writing the Torah in very anthropomorphic terms. The point is, that if God is the author, (discounting scribal errors on the part of Moses, human secretary), the book is Divine. Divine authorship means that the text is perfect: no contradictions, no extraneous information, no mistakes. Anything that appears problematic is because of OUR limited understanding. If the Torah seems to contradict scientific knowledge, then either science will be proven wrong, or we do not understand the Bible properly. If the Torah is God's word, then every word and letter has deep meaning. The Torah is eternally valid, and speaks to today as much as it did to our ancestors. This is the traditional approach to Torah study.

People: Critical scholarship holds that the Torah is a human document, written over a period of time, by numerous authors. (This explains the apparent contradictions, repetitions, etc.) The Torah is a product of a specific time period, and the Torah (like a pot found at an archeological site) is an article that allows us to peek into a window of how the ancient Israelites lived and what they believed. Even the medieval Rabbis had their doubts about Moses being the sole author (like when the Torah writes, 'and Moses died.') But it was in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries (along with all the other intellectual revolutions) that 'Mosaic/Divine' authorship was seriously questioned. The most famous proponent of this was the Graf/Wellhausen theory called the documentary hypothesis. Using literary style, names of God, and other clues, they identified four strains or sources they called J, E, P and D. This is the scholarly, 'critical' approach to Torah study.

Both: We can believe that both God and humans had a 'hand' in writing the Torah. If Revelation means that God revealed (communicated) the Torah to humans, then God AND people share in its writing. God inspired the people who wrote the Torah. That means we can find both God's eternal message, as well as layers of a historical process. (Which is which is sometimes a problem). This approach posits that God 'reveals' divine truth (in a way only known to God) that individual(s) wrote down, or passed down. This may have been much like the composer's or inventor's flash of inspiration. Another possibility is that the Torah is our response to historical events shaped by God's master plan. As modern liberal Jews, we have the option to try and balance both these approaches. Our Torah study can be sensitive the nuances of the text (as if God wrote it) yet aware of the historical processes and analytic tools of scientific criticism. This way we can synthesize both traditional and modern methods of Torah study.

No matter what our personal beliefs, two things seem indisputable: the Torah is a record of the ancient Israelites' encounter with the Divine; for thousands of years, Jews have read/studied the Torah as a way of connecting with that Divine voice.

So don't even try to blame God for human scribal errors.
OK can you tell me wrote the Quran.
 
 
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Quote JOUBERAR Replybullet Posted: 15 May 2010 at 8:38am
Originally posted by honeto

Hi,
for me its simple to recognize, true from false. In present times it is most clear that what prophet Mohammed (pbuh) taught has no match. In terms of the most important aspects and teachings of a belief he is consistent unlike anyone else in these times. His teachings of Absolute Monotheism turn out to be the most consistent and reinstate God's true status as traced in OT, as One of One. Through his teachings we learn that if God has a favorite, its the one who lives by his commands the most. And that salvation is achieved through obeying Him, and seeking His Mercy and Forgiveness. All genuine ideas that appeal to the intellect and common sense. We know the prophet did not seek his own glory, rather he always Glorified the only One worthy of such, God Almighty. The prophet always made it clear that he was a servant of God, for a noble service he was sent, to guide the mankind to the right. And its through the guidance that came through him that we have a chance to be guided into serving our purpose as intended in directing our services and worship to none other than its rightful owner, God Almighty rather than those created by Him.
That speaks the truth for who the prophet was, the verdict is too evident if it is the truth we seek, he was indeed a prophet from God, a sign of God's Mercy for all of us. Those who benefit from this mercy will see it then, those who do not benefit from this mercy will seek it then, but it will be too late then.
Hasan
 
Can you be more specific what Muhammad "taught has no match" or can I ask you how would you descride from where does the Quran originated from and on what principalities is the Quran based on? 
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islamispeace
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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 15 May 2010 at 2:58pm
Thank you so much for finally proving my point!  You agree then that humans did write parts of the Torah as we have it today (albeit with the unproven assertion that they were "inspired").  My point is proven.  Thank you!

As for your question, the author of the Quran is God.  It was revealed in stages, but the words were always with God.  And as it was revealed, the faithful memorized it, while others wrote it down.  Unlike the Bible, there was no human hand in the wording of the text.  Its origins are purely from the divine.  No words from humans are in the text.  They are all God's words.


Edited by islamispeace - 15 May 2010 at 2:59pm
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Quote JOUBERAR Replybullet Posted: 16 May 2010 at 9:30am
Originally posted by islamispeace

Thank you so much for finally proving my point!  You agree then that humans did write parts of the Torah as we have it today (albeit with the unproven assertion that they were "inspired").  My point is proven.  Thank you!

As for your question, the author of the Quran is God.  It was revealed in stages, but the words were always with God.  And as it was revealed, the faithful memorized it, while others wrote it down.  Unlike the Bible, there was no human hand in the wording of the text.  Its origins are purely from the divine.  No words from humans are in the text.  They are all God's words.
 
Since when did God write Quran since when please dont try to convince me with your lies, I will take on anybody in the world to proof to them that Quran is not God's word.
 
No words from humans are in the text.LET SEE WHERE DO YOU CAME UPON IS THIS YOUR OWN OPINION.
Who revealed the Quran to Muhammad nobody but himself lying to the poor old Arabs who simply believed his lies.
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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 17 May 2010 at 7:26pm
Originally posted by JOUBERAR

Originally posted by islamispeace

Thank you so much for finally proving my point!  You agree then that humans did write parts of the Torah as we have it today (albeit with the unproven assertion that they were "inspired").  My point is proven.  Thank you!

As for your question, the author of the Quran is God.  It was revealed in stages, but the words were always with God.  And as it was revealed, the faithful memorized it, while others wrote it down.  Unlike the Bible, there was no human hand in the wording of the text.  Its origins are purely from the divine.  No words from humans are in the text.  They are all God's words.
 
Since when did God write Quran since when please dont try to convince me with your lies, I will take on anybody in the world to proof to them that Quran is not God's word.
 
No words from humans are in the text.LET SEE WHERE DO YOU CAME UPON IS THIS YOUR OWN OPINION.
Who revealed the Quran to Muhammad nobody but himself lying to the poor old Arabs who simply believed his lies.


There are various reasons, including the fact that there exist no contradictions in the Quran.  If a human had written the Quran, eventually discrepancies and contradictions would have arisen.  We found no such examples.  Second, the Quran challenges those who deny its origins to produce just three verses like it.  Those familiar with Arabic know exactly what the challenge is talking about.  Historically, Arabic literature and poetry has been classified along 16 styles, all of which can be imitated.  However, scholars agree that the Quran is a style of its own.  Nothing before it or after it in the entire history of the Arabic language has imitated the Quran's literary style.  That is proof that the author was not any man, but God.  The Bible on the other hand has been redacted (as you admitted) by man. 
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Quote JOUBERAR Replybullet Posted: 17 May 2010 at 8:35pm
Originally posted by islamispeace

Originally posted by JOUBERAR

Originally posted by islamispeace

Thank you so much for finally proving my point!  You agree then that humans did write parts of the Torah as we have it today (albeit with the unproven assertion that they were "inspired").  My point is proven.  Thank you!

As for your question, the author of the Quran is God.  It was revealed in stages, but the words were always with God.  And as it was revealed, the faithful memorized it, while others wrote it down.  Unlike the Bible, there was no human hand in the wording of the text.  Its origins are purely from the divine.  No words from humans are in the text.  They are all God's words.
 
Since when did God write Quran since when please dont try to convince me with your lies, I will take on anybody in the world to proof to them that Quran is not God's word.
 
No words from humans are in the text.LET SEE WHERE DO YOU CAME UPON IS THIS YOUR OWN OPINION.
Who revealed the Quran to Muhammad nobody but himself lying to the poor old Arabs who simply believed his lies.


There are various reasons, including the fact that there exist no contradictions in the Quran.  If a human had written the Quran, eventually discrepancies and contradictions would have arisen.  We found no such examples.  Second, the Quran challenges those who deny its origins to produce just three verses like it.  Those familiar with Arabic know exactly what the challenge is talking about.  Historically, Arabic literature and poetry has been classified along 16 styles, all of which can be imitated.  However, scholars agree that the Quran is a style of its own.  Nothing before it or after it in the entire history of the Arabic language has imitated the Quran's literary style.  That is proof that the author was not any man, but God.  The Bible on the other hand has been redacted (as you admitted) by man. 
 You say Allah wrote the Quran where is the book that Allah wrote the original Quran where is the "pen" come where is the "pen" Muhammad said the first thing that Allah created was a pen and then second Allah must have created a book so that he can wrote in it and called it the Quran where is that book that Allah have wrote you say it yourself that the author is God now for 4500 years God have withheld the Quran from the jews and everyone on earth and 600 years after Jesus Allah decided it is now time and He must give this wonderfull book that he kept 4500 years back He must now give to Muhammad this book is flawless no faults no contradictions and so on no hatred and the most peacefull religion on earth.
Right then who was the first muslim?
Where is Allah's Quran?    
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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 18 May 2010 at 4:35pm
RESPONSE TO JOUBERAR:

You say Allah wrote the Quran where is the book that Allah wrote the original Quran where is the "pen" come where is the "pen" Muhammad said the first thing that Allah created was a pen and then second Allah must have created a book so that he can wrote in it and called it the Quran where is that book that Allah have wrote


It is with Allah as it says in 85:21-22:

"Nay, this is a Glorious Qur'an, (Inscribed) in a Tablet Preserved!"  

you say it yourself that the author is God now for 4500 years God have withheld the Quran from the jews and everyone on earth and 600 years after Jesus Allah decided it is now time and He must give this wonderfull book that he kept 4500 years back


The Quran did not have anything that was not in the previous scriptures.  It delivered the same message that was found in the previous books, which by the way are also with God.  But its revelation became necessary after the Jews and Christians corrupted the previous scriptures, which you have admitted. 

He must now give to Muhammad this book is flawless no faults no contradictions and so on no hatred and the most peacefull religion on earth.


YES!  Your point?

Right then who was the first muslim?


Obviously, since Adam was the first human, he was the first Muslim. 

Where is Allah's Quran? 
 

LOL Man, you are all over the place!  You only need to ask the question once.  I am not like you that I need to be asked the same question over and over again! Wink





Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Quote JOUBERAR Replybullet Posted: 18 May 2010 at 6:55pm
Originally posted by islamispeace

RESPONSE TO JOUBERAR:

You say Allah wrote the Quran where is the book that Allah wrote the original Quran where is the "pen" come where is the "pen" Muhammad said the first thing that Allah created was a pen and then second Allah must have created a book so that he can wrote in it and called it the Quran where is that book that Allah have wrote


It is with Allah as it says in 85:21-22:

"Nay, this is a Glorious Qur'an, (Inscribed) in a Tablet Preserved!"  

you say it yourself that the author is God now for 4500 years God have withheld the Quran from the jews and everyone on earth and 600 years after Jesus Allah decided it is now time and He must give this wonderfull book that he kept 4500 years back


The Quran did not have anything that was not in the previous scriptures.  It delivered the same message that was found in the previous books, which by the way are also with God.  But its revelation became necessary after the Jews and Christians corrupted the previous scriptures, which you have admitted. 

He must now give to Muhammad this book is flawless no faults no contradictions and so on no hatred and the most peacefull religion on earth.

YES!  Your point?

Right then who was the first muslim?


Obviously, since Adam was the first human, he was the first Muslim. 

Where is Allah's Quran? 
 

LOL Man, you are all over the place!  You only need to ask the question once.  I am not like you that I need to be asked the same question over and over again! Wink





 
I dont like your funny icons and I am not all over the place you can not tell me who wrote the Quran I want soilid proof of who wrote Quran Allah or humans eg muslims, how can Adam be first muslim if he didn't had a copy of Quran and what about angels they also must be..........} 
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