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Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Wahabism Exposed!! Post Reply Post New Topic
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abuzaid
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Quote abuzaid Replybullet Posted: 12 June 2007 at 10:36am

My advice to both Minuteman and Abu Mujahid...

This thread is about so called Wahhabism and Ibn Abdul Wahhab Najdi. Let's not deviate from topic. Its better to open a new thread on whether Quran and Sunnah is same or different.

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Abu Mujahid
 
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Quote Abu Mujahid Replybullet Posted: 12 June 2007 at 10:47am
Originally posted by Israfil

Minuteman,

Don't worry he calls all of us liberal if we disagree....He is the Islamicity Sheikh.

 

Israfil, 

I didn't forget to answer your questions. Just got busy with another fellow. I was wondering whether you were shocked by the claims of this psuedo convert (Andulus) about Sh. Muhammad Ibnu Abdulwahab. He takes the banner of all liberals plus Kabbani spell. I like the Kabbani part.

 

Abu Mujahid

   

Islam need true muslims
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minuteman
 
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Quote minuteman Replybullet Posted: 12 June 2007 at 11:20am

 

 Abu Mujahid, I do not agree with you. Can you not differentiate between what the prophet did and what he said. I know that in the books of Hadith there are described some of the acts (practice) of the holy prophet s.a.w.s. I know that. But surely he was not talking all the time to all the people. Only at special time when the need arose, he gave some advice. That only some people heard. They conveyed to only few people and so on.

 That conveyance of the said words (I call Hadith) was rather limited. But the works that he did were in front of every one and large number of people (hundred of thousands)  had adopted it by seeing it and by seeing the people doing it. That was carried out from generation to generation. Even though there was no book of Hadith at that time.

 Also, not everbody could read the books.

 I am sorry to say that you Abu Mujahid are again mixing the Hadith with the Sunnah and Sunnah with the Hadith. You are writing them together as Hadith/Sunnah. I do not mind but if these two things are different, and they are different, then could you please give some different name to each of them so that we can discuss the matter further.

By Hadith I understand the books of Hadith. That is all. I do not take them as the practice (Sunnah) of the holy prophet. I see that every one was praying and observing the fast in ramadhan and doing Hajj for many years even though none of these books existed.

 Please name the two important means of guidance from the prophet s.a.w.s. that I have pointed out. What name would you give them. Do not give one name because they are two different things, even though in harmony.

The other friend (Abuzaid) should please have patience because this is an important matter at the bottom of this abdul Wahhab business too. Thanks.

If any one is bad some one must suffer
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Quote minuteman Replybullet Posted: 12 June 2007 at 11:27am

 

 If one thinks that pople learnt the mode of prayers from the books of Hadith then he is mistaken. Prayers were being performed all the time from the very first day even when no book of Hadith was written.

 It only happened that the collectors of the Hadith found it good to record the reports about the manner of the prayers too in the books of Hadith. That was all, good and useful, as a record that the prayer was in fact being performed as it was done by the prophet himself and the Wudhu was also being done as he did it. That was as a further proof of the method. It was notto teach the people how to do Wudhu.

 I will come back to this if any one will see the points. I see Hadith only as a support to the Quran and the Practice (Sunnah) of the holy prophet s.a.w.s. and I see the Hadith as a servant to the Quran and Sunnah.

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Quote fatima Replybullet Posted: 13 June 2007 at 6:03am

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaykum

Brother hadith and sunnah can be used interchangeably as brother has mentioned. Hadith books are not just collection of what Sayyidina Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wassalam was saying, it also has description of acts he was performing and things which he allowed and so forth. I will give you an example, it is a known sunnah that Sayyidina Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wassalam used to wash his limbs three times in wudu and also start with right side. Now in a hadith it is going to be quoted from a person who got it from a sahabi himself or some one who heard it from the sahabi that i saw Rasulallah sallallahu alayhi wassalam starting his wudu from right, washing three time........

Sunnah not only includes his acts but what he was saying and what he was permitting that was done infront of him and same is the description for a hadith. Reason for hadith books coming so much later is first there were people who would travel miles to learn a single hadith of Prophet and normal transmission was person to person. Then with few bad things happening in Ummah, there were some doubtfull material that was associated to Sayyidina Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wassalam. Then scholars of the time took it upon themselves to check the credibility of each transmitter and number of transmissions and give it a ranking according to that. This was to make things easy for later generation as how can people know fourteen hundered years later who was a pious truthful person and who was not.

So the most reliable sunnah are what are found in the hadith books. Now as you say that Islamic law is derived from Holy Qur'an and Sunnah which is true. The sunnah from where a law is derived of hudud come from what are called mutawatir ahadith (can some one correct me if i am wrong). Mutawatir is a category where there were so many trnsmission of an incident or saying that there is no denying that it happened/was said as there is no way that many people would have collaberated to forge a lie.

Hopefully this answers your question.

Wassalam

Say: (O Muhammad) If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL
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