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Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
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herjihad
 
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Quote herjihad Replybullet Posted: 24 May 2005 at 3:24am

Bismillah,

Thank you Comm for clearing that up!  And people argue over silly things like that, and you see right through to the meaning and avoid nonsense.

Maybe, Please don't pontificate on your beliefs as if this is your soap box.  Slogans like the ones you spouted earlier are not welcome.  Discussion and learning certainly are.  And maybe others aren't as miffed at seeing this stuff here as I am.

It is vicious to have to make a blood sacrifice in order to gain our Kind, Gracious, Forgiving Lord's forgiveness.  Muslims just have to have a pure intention, and it's between Allah, SWT, and us.  We don't have to go to the preacher or priest or sheikh to get Allah's forgiveness. 

 And it is a mystery, because only the One, Eternal, Life-Giver, Sustainer of Life, knows the answer of whether we were forgiven or not.  We just need to have faith.  And faith is what religion is about. 

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Ali Zaki
 
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Quote Ali Zaki Replybullet Posted: 24 May 2005 at 5:42am

Salam ala kum to all

To : Community and Onegamemaybe2,

With all due respect, your comments do not seem to be appropriate for this forum, as it is titled "Intrafaith Dialogue". The purpose of this particular forum, according to my understanding, is to have a discussion centered around the differences within Islam. Since neither of your comments seem to be based on intra-Muslim issues my humble suggestions is that you find a forum that is more appropriate to your level of discussion.

On a side note, I was a Christian that was blessed by Allah (s.w.a.) to be guided to the true religion of the prophet Isa (Jesus Christ), which is Islam. I say to my Christian brothers and sisters that when you say "Got Jesus!" to a Muslim, it is offensive on two levels.

In the first place, the implication of this statement is that Jesus Christ is a trademark which is owned by Chrisitians. This is incorrect. Jesus Christ was NOT a Chrisitian (as you know), nor did he found the religion of Chrisitianity. When I say Jesus was a Muslim, I do not mean that he prayed the Muslim prayer 5 times a day, fasted during Ramadan, etc (which he did not do, he practiced Judaism), rather, that he submitted (the meaning of Islam) to the one Lord, Creator and Sustainer of himself and everything else.

The second reason is that you are implying that we, as Muslims, are "lost and condemned" (as a Christian brother once told me). The reason for being offended by this should be obvious.

Please do not take offenese to this, as my intention is not to discourage you from participating in this ongoing discussion. I simply feel that you line and level of discourse would be more appropriate for another forum (such as Interfaith Dialogue). You may find in that area participants who are more eager to have a deep discussion with you.

Salam

"The structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad."

Imam Ali (a.s.)
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trueth searcher
 
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Quote trueth searcher Replybullet Posted: 01 June 2005 at 12:56am

Assalam Alaicum

 I agree with what you typed ( if I am understanding it correctly ). I think that all man have it in their hearts that there is only one God.. Allah. even with out a book I think He is known to all in their hearts. I think we are all in a way similar to Abraham ( we know in our hearts the there is only one God... Allah, and we are consious of Him)as children....but then as we get older we are faced with all of the divisions in religion, different cultures, parents handing down their beliefs to you, sometimes even pushing them onto you, disbelievers trying to plant a seed of doubt in your head. And for some all of this is enough to confuse them. It is important for us all to remember that we are servants/slaves of Allah. And though there might be divisions in the three religions we have the one most important thing in common.... We all worship Allah. And if we can put our differences aside and remember that our main goal is to   please Allah than we will all remember that we arent that different when it comes to what is really important.Abraham set a good example before the divisions.I sometimes wonder if I should follow his example instead of listening to man.Because you cannot trust man. Men can easily confuse and push their ways on others and so can the evil whisperer (satan). it is sometimes hard to decipher the trueth from the lies. That is why we all must ask Allah to guide us. After all He is Trueth.

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Abu Hadi
 
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Quote Abu Hadi Replybullet Posted: 01 June 2005 at 4:13am

Salams to all,

Quoting trueth searcher

"Abraham set a good example before the divisions.I sometimes wonder if I should follow his example instead of listening to man.Because you cannot trust man"

It is true, Prophet Ibrahim was an excellent example, as stated in the Quran. You have hit on a point which many of our muslim brothers and sisters are facing right now. To use an analogy that is often used here in the US, you see the glass as either half empty or half full. Some people look at forums such as this and only see people arguing and fighting to gain some advantage over the other or to prove that they are right and the other person is wrong. I don't see it that way. I shouldn't say that exactly. I see some people doing that, but I believe that most people on this forum are just like you, seeking truth by asking questions and engaging in discussions with others who do not agree with them.

It is true that there are many untrustworthy people in the world, but the religion of Islam only asks you to trust The Prophet, and those whom the Prophet(p.b.u.h) has designated as being worthy of trust. There is one hadith, that is narrated by most narrators (both Shia and Sunni). If you follow it you will never need anything else. It is the Hadith of Thalqayin, RasoullAllah (p.b.u.h) say, (English translation)

http://www.al-islam.org/thaqalayn/nontl/Preface.htm

The Prophet and the Ahl Al Bait are the trustees of the religion of Ibrahim. Salams

There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error...
Quran Ch.2 Verse 256
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Quote Community Replybullet Posted: 01 June 2005 at 11:43am
Originally posted by Abu Hadi

Salams to all,

Quoting trueth searcher

"Abraham set a good example before the divisions.I sometimes wonder if I should follow his example instead of listening to man.Because you cannot trust man"

It is true, Prophet Ibrahim was an excellent example, as stated in the Quran. You have hit on a point which many of our muslim brothers and sisters are facing right now. To use an analogy that is often used here in the US, you see the glass as either half empty or half full. Some people look at forums such as this and only see people arguing and fighting to gain some advantage over the other or to prove that they are right and the other person is wrong. I don't see it that way. I shouldn't say that exactly. I see some people doing that, but I believe that most people on this forum are just like you, seeking truth by asking questions and engaging in discussions with others who do not agree with them.

It is true that there are many untrustworthy people in the world, but the religion of Islam only asks you to trust The Prophet, and those whom the Prophet(p.b.u.h) has designated as being worthy of trust. There is one hadith, that is narrated by most narrators (both Shia and Sunni). If you follow it you will never need anything else. It is the Hadith of Thalqayin, RasoullAllah (p.b.u.h) say, (English translation)

http://www.al-islam.org/thaqalayn/nontl/Preface.htm

The Prophet and the Ahl Al Bait are the trustees of the religion of Ibrahim. Salams

Islam only asks us to trust The Prophet you said, how do you do that? do you do that through witnessing the truth of the koran? or is it through narrations people claim come from him? if so how do you know for sure that they are truely from him? is it because you trust the people who claim they are from The Prophet?

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Ali Zaki
 
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Quote Ali Zaki Replybullet Posted: 01 June 2005 at 12:20pm

Salam to Community,

The general method of verification of hadith (traditions of the Prophet) is a science (just like chemistry, biology, etc.) called Ijtihad. The basics of this science are the same among Sunni and Shia, however, they disagree somewhat as to the reliabity of some of the transmitters of hadith.

If you would like to learn more about this science, please see the following

http://al-islam.org/al-tawhid/hadith-science/index.htm

The reasons for the neccessity of reliance upon the Prophet and his Ahly al'Bayt to understand the Quran are many, however, an example of a hadith (from the prophet (p.b.u.h.) that is widely known and accepted by both Sunni and Shia Muslims is

"Whosoever interprets the Qur'an according to his own opinion has made a place for himself in the fire. "

http://al-islam.org/mot/default.asp?url=methods.htm

Salam,

"The structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad."

Imam Ali (a.s.)
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Quote Community Replybullet Posted: 01 June 2005 at 11:45pm
Originally posted by Ali Zaki

The reasons for the neccessity of reliance upon the Prophet and his Ahly al'Bayt to understand the Quran are many, however, an example of a hadith (from the prophet (p.b.u.h.) that is widely known and accepted by both Sunni and Shia Muslims is

"Whosoever interprets the Qur'an according to his own opinion has made a place for himself in the fire. "

http://al-islam.org/mot/default.asp?url=methods.htm

Salam,

Chapter the pilgremage

Man kana yathunnu an lan yansurahu Allahu fee alddunya waalakhirati falyamdud bisababin ila alssamai thumma liyaqtaAA falyanthur hal yuthhibanna kayduhu ma yagheethu

This is the interpertation Of the quran by the scholars so in accordance with the "hadith"

22:15 If any think that Allah will not help him (His Messenger). in this world and the Hereafter, let him stretch out a rope to the ceiling and cut (himself) off: then let him see whether his plan will remove that which enrages (him)!

 

and This is my interpertation of the same verse:

22:15. whoever thought that Allah will not save him in the life of this world and the hereafter, let him prepare a reason/a way(sababan) to the sky and  travers/cut it(yaqta'), then let him see, will his plan remove that which (enrages)(yugheeth) (him). 

So i will go to hell according to what the "sunnis" and "shia" agree upon came from the prophet because i interpert the koran according to my opinion? clear arabic? i do not think the prophet urged someone to really commit suicide no matter how troubeled the person was....Read the other interpertations of picktall and others... on a side note i can imagine why shia and sunnis agree upon this "narration".

also you stated that researching hadith is a whole science, for something to be a science there need to be proof "he said, that he said" is no proof nor is"the one who said that this came from the prophet was a rightious man since this man who was rightious said so" it s like saying in biology "the brain is made up out of wood, this man said so" atleast with this statement you could disect an animal and take a look at it's brain and see it is not made out of wood, but with words of someone who is not with us anymore it is not possible, unless they hold true in more ways then just in connection to someones "opinion".



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Quote Community Replybullet Posted: 01 June 2005 at 11:55pm
And i also can imagine and see why The Prophet ordered the burning of the ahadith when he heard some people where writing them down. So that it won't be mistaken for koran verses? not really, there is a clear difference in the way hadith are worded and the koran furthermore the koran was recited everyday by the believers and since it came down over a 23 year period in parts it was easy to learn by head and remembered, they loved to recite and hear it and if someone made a mistake the others would correct him, i do not think the reason why The Prophet ordered the ahadith to be burned was because it might get confused with the koran as is the opinion of the "scholars".

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