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Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
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Quote Community Replybullet Topic: The believer without a book
    Posted: 19 May 2005 at 8:37pm

"al mu'minu bilaa kitaab"(the believer without a book)

A man can be a believer without trusting another man's words, for instance a man in a far jungle somewhere, thinks deeply and realizes that he, and everything else is created and sustained by One with great power, and that The One who creats and sustains everything is the only one who deserves to be worshipped. That he has to be good to others as He is and has been good to him, that he should mind Him more then anything else, that he should do deeds trying to please Him, worship you see? If a christian missionary comes to him and starts telling him about someone dieing on a cross for his sins, and that he should open his heart for the words of God(actually the words this missionary says) so telling him to open his heart to him and his claims, this "heathen" as the missionary would call him, will surely remember that people can be wrong and can lie, and will probebly smile and excuse himself...........Those who call themselves christians probebly did not fully understand this in the past on more then one ocasion, and tried to force people into christianity. The koran tells us there is no compulsion in the religion. a verse from the bible :" it is better to seek refuge in the Lord then to trust man" Psalm 118 verse 8.

Hey now to you, how would this believer react to your words when you tell him about your scholars and what they all have to say?

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Quote kim! Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2005 at 8:44pm

Sadly, many "heathens" don't have the opportunity to just excuse themselves when they hear stuff that is wrong and/or forced upon them.

At this very moment, deep in the Amazon rainforest, there are entire communities that are cut off from the rest of the world not just because of their isolation but because they have been "found" by Christian missionaries who won't allow anyone else to come into the area.

Not even anthropologists who were hoping to study the people before the missionaries change their lives forever. Sure, some of these changes might be good (better life expectancy due to fewer diseases, for example), but it should be carried out by groups not forcing anyone to change their religion.

grrrr

 

Kim...



Edited by kim!
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Quote onegamemaybe2 Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2005 at 10:05pm
The spread of christianity is not forced,god wills it to spread swiftly and in remote parts of the country that is his greatest power. to touch the ones who are far away.If it were another way you would see other religions flowing.but some religions demand prayer and tithes and other cult ways were as god promotes faith with free will.They have the opputunity to ignore the religous missionaries but gods strength and grace wills them to believe and if they don't then it is said on judgement day you will be looked at.In Isaiah Chapter52:10 "The lord will lay bare his holy arm in all the nations,and all the ends of the earth will see the salvation of god".If god willed it he would allow the spread of many religons to the small countries cut off from society but he wills it to be christian missions the most becuase it is love and god is love.
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Quote kim! Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2005 at 11:11pm

God may be Love, but missionaries often are not. In the past missionaries have not been love, they have been imprisonment, punishment, guilt, torture, intolerance, abuse, disease, pneumonia  and theft.

Do you KNOW how many Hawaiians died because of missionaries? Those prudes turned up and insisted that everyone wear heaps of long clothing, so the natives died of pneumonia because their clothes were always wet due to the fact that they lived in a humid climate.

Kim...

 

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Quote Community Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2005 at 11:15pm

Everyone has the freedom to make their own choices, but it is ugly when some convert others to a certain religion through isolating them and then giving them the choice either accept this faith, or no medicine, and even worse when some go and kill those who do not accept, the church has been famous for this in history, it just shows the falacity of these missionaries and their lust for power, which a believer does not have since he knows all power belongs to Him, it's kind of embarassing.

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Quote kim! Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2005 at 11:18pm

An interesting post I just found:

"The Missionaries - according to my friend Lelani

When the Missionaries first came to the Islands in 1820 they were greeted warmly. The Hawaiians had always believed in the Gods, but their Gods were carved in stone images, so the Christian religion was not so far fetched and King Kamehameha saw that his people wanted to learn. The Missionaries (prudes that they were) also taught the Hawaiians to cover the bodies.

Most Hawaiians will say that the Missionaries came with Bibles and the Hawaiians owned the land. When the Missionaries left, the Hawaiians owned the Bibles and the Missionaries owned the Land.

Daniel Dole was one Missionary that owned a great deal of land and was the Founder of Hawaiian Pineapple Company. Benjamin and Henry Parker ended up owning one of the largest Ranches on the big island of Hawaii as did the Framingham family on Oahu.

That is not true of all the Missionaries, some were truly dedicated to teaching the bible and died as poor as they arrived. That is also true of the Missionary family that watched the decline of the pure Hawaiians. Intermarriage was thinning out the line of pure bloods. So he purchased the Island of Niihau and moved as many as he could to his island to remain pure in blood. He also was strict with them and for many years they were not allowed to leave the Island for fear of loosing them to marriage with outsiders. Today there are still a few hundred pure Hawaiians living on Niihau, thanks to the Missionaries.

The Missionaries also brought with them diseases unknown to the Hawaiians. Smallpox, measles, mumps and colds. The Hawaiians were unfamiliar with these new maladies and did not know how to cope. When they had high fevers, they would bury themselves in the cool sand by the beach to feel cooler and would develop pneumonia and die."

(From:http://groups.msn.com/AncestorChroniclesOurKinAndTheir Times/hawaii.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Mess age=16868&LastModified=4675485969855519109)

Kim...

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Quote onegamemaybe2 Replybullet Posted: 20 May 2005 at 10:49pm

Lets see thats about 200 years ago and whos to say the diseases weren't already there but someone needed to be blamed missionaries didnt create diseases.So your logic may sound good but really how can you prove that christian missionaries brought disease,you cant its almost immpossible.But one thing is possible the Islands are plentiful and beautiful that is gods beauty.Satan creates disease and will try to get even the most faithful islander to blame it on one of gods children.   

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Quote kim! Replybullet Posted: 21 May 2005 at 7:24am
Oh yes, and "God's Children" are all SO perfect.

Try proving that to long-suffering, abused Catholics in the US.

Kim...

Priests should be FORCED to marry.
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