Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

Science & Technology
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : General : Science & Technology
Message Icon Topic: God vs. Allah (it’s in the name) Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 5 Next >>
Author Message
ron75
 
Starter
Starter


Joined: 14 May 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5
Quote ron75 Replybullet Posted: 08 July 2005 at 5:45pm

Community:

I make no claim to be a speech therapist, but I've had a few voice lessons and have done some singing so I know a thing or two about vowel sounds and how they are formed in the mouth.

First- does a newborn baby really say ahhhh (i.e., the long "A")? From my observation babies make a higher pitched sound resembling more the "A" heard in the English word "hat."

Second, your claim that this is the easiest sound to make (btw I'm assuming you are referring to the long A because I've only ever heard the word pronounced as Ahhh-lahh) is COMPLETELY subjective and I think even an objective opinion would run counter with your assertion. To make the long A sound (Ahhhh- like getting your tongue depressed so your doctor can look down your throat) requires that you lower your jaw and lift the back of your throat almost like you are about to yawn. Try switching between chanting Ahhhh and Uhhhhhh several times and you will see that you have to open up much more for the former. The latter sound, I would argue is easier because you can say it without having to open your mouth any more than you would to otherwise breath.

Third: "Allaah as we call Him is above everything and everyone, so upward, up."In this context, "above" isn't used in a physical sense but in the metaphorical one, therefore physical movement of the tongue would be irrelevant. Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that God is everywhere?

Also, why would a word to describe god need to be two syllables? Wouldn't it be more "natural" for it just to be a single one instead? You seem to fret about the possible origins of the word "God". Well, I've heard the claim that "Allah" was actually the head deity in the pantheon of ancient Arab pagan gods, so I guess I have to wonder about its true origins as well. By the way, I thought I read once that Allah had 99 names anyway.

To your point regarding the hhh sound and it's representation of a last breath, thus testifying that Allah is the first and the last: Well, what if the Arabic word for god ended in a sound that could signify life itself, or ongoing life? In that case I'm convinced you would simply assert that this simply HAS to be the last syllable because then it shows that Allah is eternal and will exist forever.

Yes, your posts may have 'logic' in them, but it's backward logic. Let mequote you again (sort of):

 "If you did not get the [ill]ogics behind the name Allah, this will not make any sense to you probebly, it might even make you feel attacked, but that was not my intention at all, so i sincerely advice you, urge you to read it again and use your reason. "

You can argue about which word is more beautiful, and everyone should respect your opinion as everyone has a right to their own, but you lose credibility when you try to use 'science' to show that your opinion could be the only logically valid one. Your statement in the above quoted paragraph is also rather condescending to those who might disagree with you.

IP IP Logged
Israfil
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 September 2003
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3984
Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 12 July 2005 at 7:52pm
Community Ron has a good ( actually great) point
IP IP Logged
Community
 
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar

Joined: 19 May 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1135
Quote Community Replybullet Posted: 12 July 2005 at 10:44pm
to clear something up, it's Allaah not Ahlah, there is no ha sound after the first A (like in hat), why i wrote Aah is because i did not want the A like in hat to become confused with Aey the way it is purnounced in english. So lets just agree a new born when it cries makes the A sound like in hat. Beautiful. The A in arabic is " | " a stripe like a one. So with all of this in mind, about a new born's first sound, we can conclude that the A is the first letter ever pronounced as far as we can tell. and the Ha (H) is the last letter pronounced(last breath when dieing).
IP IP Logged
Community
 
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar

Joined: 19 May 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1135
Quote Community Replybullet Posted: 12 July 2005 at 11:15pm
And about Allah being the head diety of arab pagan gods, this is because monotheism was before polytheism, Adam was a monotheist, and those who came after him were also, and those who invented other gods, the polytheists of lets say the people of Noah got destroyed, falsehood does not last, truth does. So with the fact that monotheism was before polytheism we can conclude that people started to invent other gods while the name Allah was known, so they did not ofcourse forget the name Allah but made Him the head diety and put their gods so to speak under Him. Because they could not just blot out His name while people knew Him as Allah and called upon Him with that name, Allah was always known as The Creator(Al Khaliq) as is one of His names that describe His attributes(100-1), so they made Allah the head diety of their gods, His true name remained and what they invented came to an end. Truth is what remains and falsehood comes to an end.
IP IP Logged
ron75
 
Starter
Starter


Joined: 14 May 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5
Quote ron75 Replybullet Posted: 13 July 2005 at 7:56pm

I'm having a time trying to make sense of your explanations. Simply put: The vowel sound in the word 'hat' is not the same as the vowel sound in the word Allah- period! Just because they are both represented by the letter A is immaterial because we could simply invent another letter for the different pitches of "A" and this would be totally OK because there are no hard and fast rules regarding how ones makes up an alphabet.

You second post is not very convincing because to be swayed by your argument, you would have to believe that Adam and Eve were in fact the first humans ever. (Please show me the cold hard science that backs up that claim!!) In fact there are more than a few Jews, Christians, and I also suspect Muslims (thinking of the new Islam and Darwin thread in this section) that don't believe the the story of the Garden of Eden should be taken literally. You post also implies that Adam and Eve would have used the term Allah as well. To believe that you would already have to believe that Allah could only be the true name for the higher power- something that has no objective truth to back it up!!

IP IP Logged
Community
 
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar

Joined: 19 May 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1135
Quote Community Replybullet Posted: 13 July 2005 at 10:43pm

Alpha, the way it is pronounced in Latin, is the A you find in Allah. Period! so just because the anglo saxons of britain made the A as in AAAH, an Aey, while germany, scandinavia, france, belgium, the netherlands, spain even, pronounce the A as in AAH, we can conclude that the english A is different. So we are back to the A as in AAH...the sound you make when you are in a lot of pain....kind of ironic.

About my second point, so you find it more reasonable that some people just invented a faith and said "hey guys lets invent these gods and the head diety we call Allah", instead of the name Allah already existing and called upon with that name by people and then people starting to invent gods gradually and putting them so to speak under Him...talking about backward reasoning...do you per chance know how to do that spectacular "moon walk"?  A

About Adam and Eve...you can take that story however you want, Allah is the first name that He was called by as i made very clear but you seem to fail in understanding that, and looking at how you assume things about me and your twisted reasoning that i do not believe that there was an evolution shows me that you are overly offended or lets say that it is not something you want to accept, and so much because of reasoning but rather because of some emotional issue? if this was not so, then why assume in ignorance?, i guess my points hit some spots in that commode you call a soul, but you just are too, lets call it "stubborn" to admit them. What made you think i take the story of Adam and Eve literally? maybe to me it means that there was an evolution which is confirmed by the koran and that Adam and Eve "ate from the tree" and became concious of something they did not know before. That still does not make the A as in Allah the hardest sound and letter to pronounce, so assuming this is the first letter is not unreasonable at all, and to reason that Someone called Him by a name which starts with that letter is also very likely and reasonable, or is that an unreasonable assumption? yeah...But yeah i guess i do feel offended in your calling my reasoning backward while making all kinds of assumptions, putting forward your opinions is fine with me, but if you can not understand what i am saying then atleast do not make these kind of assumptions....or for that matter comments...



Edited by Community
IP IP Logged
ron75
 
Starter
Starter


Joined: 14 May 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5
Quote ron75 Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2005 at 9:31pm

Who are you to say my commode is a soul?? Nice comment with the moon walk. Now that I see you are taking cheap shots at me with your puerile insults I can see who is really getting under whose skin more.

I expected nothing less than more obscurations from you. But when the smoke screen from your flippant and condescending rhetoric as faded, you still will not be able to objectively or scientifically respond to the following:

- You keep saying "Allah is the first name he was called by"- even though you have NO proof to back it up whatsoever expect your own assertion that it is so. Please tell me how you KNOW that Allah preceded all other names for the higher power. The story of Adam and Eve, and whether Allah used to be the "Zeus" of the Arab gods is irrelevant, especially considering that in your own timeline, the second event would have come after the name Allah existed.

- If you don't take the story of Adam literally then why talk about him like he was an actual person? "Adam was a monotheist, and those who came after him were also..."

- Please prove to me why the true name of god would have to be 2 syllables as opposed to just one.

- Prove to me why the name of god would have to end in the same sound that one makes at the moment of death. Death is for mortals, and god is immortal! Why would the name of god necessarily have to end in something representing death when god doesn't die at all. It's god's name after all, not the name of humankind!!!!

As far as this: "so you find it more reasonable that some people just invented a faith and said "hey guys lets invent these gods and the head deity we call Allah" -- Well why not??? The where did the name Zeus come from unless the Greeks invented it somehow or it was passed on to them? How about Thor with the Norse gods? Or Brahman for the Hindus? These names may have already been around before the inception of those religions but obviously that doesn't prove that they were the true name of the one and true god!

Have you ever even thought about these things before you post your "scientific finding" or do you make up your mind early on and just run with it without ever challenging it to yourself?

One last thing. In my life experience, I noticed that people who respond with insults and low blows to those who dare challenge their sacred assertions to be the ones with commodes for souls.

Good day Community.

 

 

IP IP Logged
Community
 
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar

Joined: 19 May 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1135
Quote Community Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2005 at 12:04am

So you really do not see how you offended me? must be terrible to be in your shoes when you offend people without any notion and then getting some thrown back.

"- Please prove to me why the true name of god would have to be 2 syllables as opposed to just one.

- Prove to me why the name of god would have to end in the same sound that one makes at the moment of death. Death is for mortals, and god is immortal! Why would the name of god necessarily have to end in something representing death when god doesn't die at all. It's god's name after all, not the name of humankind!!!!"

If you are dieing, and you say God, it will sound "Goduhhh" your last breath see? When you say Allaah, you do not have the problem of putting an extra letter to the name of your god...and His name is pronounced correctly. So you come into the world with Aa, and you leave the world with hhh. And that which is in between your birth and death, if you are a man of faith, is for you to hold on to The One who is Higher then everything including you and to strive for Him "LL". When you let go of the LL when dieing, when you relax your tongue from pointing up in your mouth, from the LL because you are about to actually exhale your last breath, you come back to the Aa and then go without you having any power to pronouncing the Hh.  Allah. also if your death involves alot of pain, you can put emphesis on the LL and then breath out your last breath..aLLah. So basically for a man of faith the last word in this life he would want to pronounce is the name of Him from whom he came, and to whom he will be brought back. Allah.

IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 5 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com