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kim!
 
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Quote kim! Replybullet Posted: 07 June 2005 at 5:22pm
Originally posted by AhmadJoyia

Salam All,

One interesting thing is ignorance of the western population about socio-cultural background of area near and around Afghanistan. Among others, a typical way of living style in that region is totally different than they can even imagine it to be. Whatever they know is through what media tell them. Through this source, they often blame Taliban government of supressing the rights of women, but it would be more interesting to know the state of these rights before (through history) and after Taliban (the Karazi government). Do we find any change? If not, then is it legitimate to blame Taliban (may be for many other things, however) for all those social problems that existed before them and continued in their own tenure and is still prevalent in their society. Another interesting evidence to look upon for the social injustices/practices against women is the attached north western area of Pakistan where Taliban never ruled. The state of women in this part of Pakistan is the same (if not worst) than in the most part of Afghanistan. Though, Taliban might have added fuel to the fire, however, their practices were not very unfamiliar to their subjects.

I hope this would provide some alternate view for understanding the situation of Afghanistan and its neigbouring area. 

At least a few of us out here in the wild West are aware of this and we make sure we spread the word to people - that it's not just the Taliban who have been repressing the Afghan women. I explain that women have had to wear burkhas for a LONG time outside of the cities, because the Northern Alliance guys abuse women too. Then I go on to tell them about the invasion of the Russians and how the Taliban were friends of and funded and trained by the US, etc, etc.

It's amazing to see some people's reactions. Specially when you explain it to Americans face to face.

Kim...

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Quote Community Replybullet Posted: 07 June 2005 at 11:16pm
From what i heard is that the US provided for the weapons for the afghani jihad against Russia but that it was the Saudi government who paid for it, or atleast for a great part of it, and after the war was won they basically turned their backs on them, by the US which is kind of understandable(no real interest untill recently) and by Saudi Arabia with all it's wealth, instead of helping them to become a desent society they dropped them.  
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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 08 June 2005 at 8:06am
Originally posted by UmTayyab

............As to the issue of the women, we have witnessed nothing, only relying on the media propaganda machine.  It is a sin to take the word of the enemy as truth without verification from reliable sources.

I must interject regarding women who flaunt the Shariah, women who work for agencies who claim to help the people, only to work against them as spies and mischief makers, women who take the kufaar as their awliah, women who go on radio and broadcast music, women who appear beautified and uncovered on television beside men and behave like the kufaar in a nation that has attempted to install pure Shariah (even though they haven't had a chance to properly educate the masses and most citizens are still illiterate, not only in reading and writing, but in knowledge of their own Islam)... they made their beds, let them die in them.

I am a woman, and I am a Muslimah.  Any woman who makes war against the Shariah makes war against me. Don't expect me to mourn them or waste my time looking for their killers.

I think, before anyone start blaming the victims than their killers, its more prudent to atleast read the news that has been posted by the originator (Sis KIM). With presuppositions in favour of Taliban, this reply of your seems little meaningless especially once the report is read more thoroughly. The details of the report clearly rules out this atrociticity to be perpetuated by Talibans. Kindly note the highlighted and underlined text from this report. First of all it says "Aid workers in Afghanistan have been the target of Taliban insurgents, especially in the insurgency-plagued south and east of the country, but the three women were found in the northern province of Baghlan, where Taliban rebels are not active. "

Then it says "A group calling itself "Afghan Youths Convention" claimed responsibility for the killing, according to a caller who telephoned a Reuters reporter in northern Afghanistan. "

And finally it becomes more obvious that it can't be the work of a so called relegious group when the report says "A doctor in the city said forensic tests showed the three were raped and then strangled with a rope.". I hope this would help denounce the killings of innocent people working for the betterment of the desitutes. Rest Allah knows the best.

 

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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 13 June 2005 at 10:17am

Ya akhi el aziz Kim has a 124% valid point. The US spin about saving the Afghan women did appeal to the perpetually "enslaved to 3rd class hard labour" women in the west.

Now, please, reckognise the real worth of our most beloved President. He was tricked to work for Cheveron by Ramzay Khalilzad and just for a few hours and once only. He is actually a classic Burger cook - owned a buger bar in the US. A German reporter has his photos in a chef's hat!!

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Quote JulAsif Replybullet Posted: 06 July 2005 at 1:44pm

To UmTayyab,

I really hope I just misread your post.  It sounded as though you thought AID RELIEF WORKERS got what they deserved by being RAPED and violently MURDERED???  You assume they are "spies and mischief makers", but how do you know they were not simply trying to fullfill their duty to Allah by helping others???  I am absolutely REPULSED that a fellow muslim would feel this way, let alone say it out loud.  I know the feminist movements have gotten way out of hand, but these were AID WORKERS!!  Risking their lives to help provide food, medical care, and other basic necessities which we are OBLIGATED to do as muslims.  How could you be such a cold, heartless woman?  All I can do is HOPE that when you said "women who flaunt the Sharia" that you were speaking generally, and not about these individual women.

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Quote aisha Replybullet Posted: 07 July 2005 at 10:24am
um tayyab, i believe what you say go girl!!!!!!!!!sharia is there for a reason.
aisha
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Quote JulAsif Replybullet Posted: 07 July 2005 at 10:45am
I guess I'm just really not sure what this thread has to do with Sharia.  Unless, of course, you mean that those "muslim" men who RAPED and MURDERED a woman should be executed...yep, I'm right there with you! 
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Quote b95000 Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2005 at 7:49pm
Originally posted by kim!

Originally posted by AhmadJoyia

Salam All,

One interesting thing is ignorance of the western population about socio-cultural background of area near and around Afghanistan. Among others, a typical way of living style in that region is totally different than they can even imagine it to be. Whatever they know is through what media tell them. Through this source, they often blame Taliban government of supressing the rights of women, but it would be more interesting to know the state of these rights before (through history) and after Taliban (the Karazi government). Do we find any change? If not, then is it legitimate to blame Taliban (may be for many other things, however) for all those social problems that existed before them and continued in their own tenure and is still prevalent in their society. Another interesting evidence to look upon for the social injustices/practices against women is the attached north western area of Pakistan where Taliban never ruled. The state of women in this part of Pakistan is the same (if not worst) than in the most part of Afghanistan. Though, Taliban might have added fuel to the fire, however, their practices were not very unfamiliar to their subjects.

I hope this would provide some alternate view for understanding the situation of Afghanistan and its neigbouring area. 

At least a few of us out here in the wild West are aware of this and we make sure we spread the word to people - that it's not just the Taliban who have been repressing the Afghan women. I explain that women have had to wear burkhas for a LONG time outside of the cities, because the Northern Alliance guys abuse women too. Then I go on to tell them about the invasion of the Russians and how the Taliban were friends of and funded and trained by the US, etc, etc.

It's amazing to see some people's reactions. Specially when you explain it to Americans face to face.

Kim...



You can explain all you want face to face.  These discussions don't lend themselves well to bipolar thinking.  Somehow, you think it is an easy thing to conduct geo-politics? [I'm referring here to the US position in the 80s visa vi the Russian invasion of Afghanistan.]  Or that you have all the answers...oh, yeah, we believe that as our faces drop in stunned amazement of all your perfect knowledge and at our perfect stupidity in comparison..please..
Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
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