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Message Icon Topic: This is why Palestine will not succeed Post Reply Post New Topic
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Tara
 
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Quote Tara Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2007 at 1:16am

Salaam Alaykum,

Thank you brother for your kind words and sensibility. I am honoured for your response..I was really believing that no one cared. I felt isolated and alone that No one understands my point. Some want proof? I will not even bother with that because the proof is self evident and some will believe that the current sufferage & oppression is a hoax.  These I say research a little further...Amnestey  International documentation of WAR CRIMES is not proof? Al Jazeera and any other media is a joke at best...but watch a village bulldozed in Jenin with the people still inside..civilians women and children and the atttempted cover up of Jenin..execpt for the courageous filmaker who I belive lost his life to get that film out there and sadly for the Israeli's proved whom he needs proof that they murdered in cold blood and lost that cover up just like the Lebanese massacre. Oh yeah sorry some of you want proof.. perhaps you can't handle it. "It is not the lie that gets you caught, it's the cover up." Al hamduallah they always do. I pray in my duas the Isreali's will stop the slaughter and genocide, because Allah is merciful and compasionate, but swift in justice...again poor Qarun he thought his riches will save him and he could slaughter the people. Sadly for him Allah's SWT punishment took time but reminded the people do not lust and wonder how long the oppressor will last and they saw his fate and realized the wrath of Allah when his believers are suffering.

Shukran Abu,

Wasalaam Tara

 

 

Alhamduallah
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herjihad
 
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Quote herjihad Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2007 at 5:16am

Salaamu Alaykum,

I agree with you Sister Tara, and thank you for your bravery and clarity.  Jazzakee Allah Khayr!

As the Israeli soldier holds down a boy by his throat beating him in his home after breaking in with five of his comrades in full military outfits, the mother cries out, "Please stop!  Please, he has stayed home and done nothing wrong." 

The soldiers hit her and shove her to the ground.  They broke the door.  Now they break the walls, the dishes, and spread mud all over.  They threaten all in the home.  They drag the boy out, who won't be seen or heard from for months. His family doesn't know if he is alive or dead.

A child cowered in the corner, a little girl of 7, hiding from the screaming and threats of the angry soldiers.

She wakes up each night crying with fear.  What can her mama say?

"Come child.  Don't worry!  Don't fret!  We will beat those damn Jews yet!  They won't come again.  We will be their end."

Or maybe she should just say, "Now, now honey.  As long as we fast and pray, it doesn't matter if the Jewish army comes and breaks our home and takes us away to jail with no charges since there was no crime but being Phalasteenee in Phalasteen.

It's okay.  We should just submit to the Israeli army quietly.  Why listen to the Holy Quran which says to defend ourselves?  Posh and nonsense.  Let's just quietly die like good Phalasteenee."

Israfil, You said that you don't have to care about the Phalasteenee because they are Muslim, or call themselves Muslim.  Oh, Wait.  You did say Hamas.  Let's be clear.  Hamas is made up of Phalasteenee children who saw their older brothers, fathers, sisters and mothers abused and murdered by the Israeli Occupiers.  They are Phalasteenee. 

Some submit.  Some are spies for the Israelis.  Some Fight.

A muslim's OBLIGATION is to defend her home, her family, her honor.  Allah, The Most Powerful, commands us not to cower in the corner and die helplessly when we can fight oppression.

I am sick of you dogging my husband's people and my children's people.  You drove Mishmish off.  Stop it.  Get off this subject.  Go join an anti Muslim site and brag with them how great you are.  But I know you won't.  You will keep going at the Phalasteenee people pointing out any imperfections you find and ignoring the truth of their situation and the truth of their humanity.

I am sick of you driving good Muslims from this site.   I don't want to hear anything you have to say because it is twisted. 

I agree with Sister Tara and Brother Sign*Reader.  As a Muslim Mom of Phalasteenee/American kids, i have confronted these issues personally.  There used to be a song that degraded the Jews as a religion and a people.  I changed the words and taught those to my kids.  I wouldn't like my kids to be listening to this.  But I wouldn't want them to feel ashamed of being Phalasteenee either because it is a great thing for them to be, an honorable thing.

The bottom line is that I can refer anyone to Daniel, a jew who immigrated to Israel as a teenager with his family and lives there with his family.  Look under the middle east on this forum.  He saliently points out that the Israeli schools teach the dehumanization of Phalasteenee as a matter of policy.  They have degrading songs, pictures and stories.  Those stories are not front page, U Tube videos because they aren't allowed out of the country. 

So anyone who cares about the truth needs to just open their eyes, and please ignore any posts Israfil makes about Phalasteen.  The fact that they are being oppressed by guns and weapons and power given to Israel by our country doesn't impress him at all.  He is not going to get it, and he is mad the way that Arabs treated him at the mosque, so he is getting his revenge by tearing the oppressed Phalasteen people apart on this web site every chance he gets.

Salaamu Alaykum



Edited by herjihad
Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2007 at 9:27am

First off.

I do care about the people that are being tortured and murdered. I do not care about those individuals that are violent. Herjiad little do you know (or act like you dont) that violence begets violence and I don't think the making a group to fight Israel is the key. Tactically its not even close to being a smart plan. Number one Israel is supported by the United States. Number two Israel has a license to do whatever because it has that support. Number three their weapons are more advanced. Number four with the aspects of the above three Israel overall will dominate the Palestinians. What's the next phase? You can either fight them and lose or find an alternative to live with your enemy.

Herjihad you don't live there currently so you really can't say what is going on. As for my criticism I'm equal when it comes to both. If you remember (or not) there was a brother (a moderator) who posted a link about some drunk Israeli kids making derogatory slurs at the camera man calling him various names. I commented on that and called how cowardly they were regardless whether they were drunk or not.

Ok, I'll give you in the fact that Hamas may be the composition of people who have lost family to violence but let me ask you this? Of all their hate and anger what have they accomplished? Do they do their families justice by losing their lives to a cause of fury? This war is not abot who is right and wrong its about hatred and anger and pain. This is what I refer to when I say I don't support the Palestinians (i.e. their government). Like yourself I have Palestinian friends who are opposite. Oh, and let me remind you that they too were in Hamas and had discussed how it is there and very much like how we discuss it here and not very much like what people say here.

Herjihad its sad that you would consider me non-Muslim in the sense of asking me to join an anti-muslim website simply because I have an opinion. Why would you do that? I have an opinion and I'm strong opinionated. If people are weak minded to not defend themselves then that is their choice to be offended by their opinion. All I ask was what has Hamas done internationally that was positive. I see nothing good coming to violence and frankly I don't think propaganda on both sides of the fence is beneficial.

The Jews, like the Palestinians, are staunch in their position on who is right and who is wrong. What do we know besides reading what we read in our local news papaers of listening to loved ones who lived there? We all have an opinion on the matter but I believe that we should look at both sides of the spectrum not just one side. It's easy to talk about children being beat to gain the sympathy of others and in that respect you have gaine dmy sympathy...but....what about that young man in his early 20's with a bomb strapped to himself containing ball bearings to create extra damage and casualties blows himself up killing not only men and women but children and even animals?

What has this individual accomplished? What has he done to bring justice to his country? Yes he fights but has he won his own battle? How is this real Islam? How is it Allah's (or YHVH) will to coerce children to join Hamas (or any group even Israeli army) to take another human beings life?



Edited by Israfil
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Tara
 
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Quote Tara Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2007 at 10:24am

 SalaamAlaykum ,

HerJihad does not have to go to Palestine,with all due respect sir to feel compassion in her heart as a mother. To have your child ..a mother's worse scenario torn apart ,shot, and babies murdered. To feel empathy for a people. When a mother gives birth and her baby dies at a Isreali checkpoint because her papers do not on that day or if he feels like it to let her cross to get to the hospital. Does not mean we have to visit the occcupied terroritories to feel especially in her case as a mother to feel empathy and say All Praise to Allah this was not my child, but ache in her heart for the murdered children in this GENOCIDE.  I am new here..funny my nickname is mishmish herjihad it means apricot. Not here my friend in new york calls me mishmish. It was his cats name when he was a child.  I am curious why did mishmish leve the IC.  

Alhamduallah
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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2007 at 11:32am

Tara I understand that thee are innocents being lost in the Palestine areas and that is unfortunate. However, all I'm saying Tara is that we have to look at both sides of the spectrum here. Yes, there are children being lost in Palestine but also children lost in Israel. Rage and anger is driving human families to destroy each other and it seems that there is no solution. For the most part a lot of us get our information from our respective media coverages and this is why I mentioned that people have to physically be there to get the facts. Yes we can get information otherwise but sometimes the opinions of families (along with the media coverage ) can skew the images of what is going on.

If we are physically there we can see for ourselves, but of course we comne to the thought that what if we skew the truth as well? Who knows? That is why its important to take both sides. Yes one side is at a disadvantage which is Palestine and the other side with the advantage is Israel. However, I do not believe rage and anger in response to the death of babies is the solution to a complex problem. Again, my main criticism is for their government which is Hamas. What have they done to support their people? Aside from their previous past of killing their enemy what have they done? Like I said previous tatically its not smart to go against Israel point blank and I think any military commander would tell you this. Their enemy (Israel) has infiltrated their system and have convinced others that their cause is bad.

Israel not only has more land but more weapons and more power. The Palestinians are definitely at a great advantage so what do you do? Do you continue to fight and pray that God will hear you? Or, do you choose another alternative to the fighting? Again, we can talk about the murder of children all day and it still will not change the situation. The Palestinians are not special in this respect. Just recently we arrested a mother who was a drug user (methamphetamine and cocaine) who put her baby in a microwave because according to her, the baby was "crying too much." Just before that, speaking of occupation there is a local gang a quarter mile where I am stationed that murder, yes, murders middle school kids for wearing the wrong color.

So if you wanna talk about the murder of children and innocents I can talk all day about that, so, what do we do? Well, I fight it. We have gang injunctions we educate kids and give them resources. We educate the parents on gangs and services in their community. It's easy for us in law enforcement and the military to simply go in there and annihilate the gangs with force if we wanted to. However, that is not law enforcement that is extermination even war has manners.

Similarly the Hamas government (or whatever government after them) has to start with the people. Focus on their direct needs such as the physiological needs such as food and water. Then expand from there such as shelter. Ask for loans from other countries to build their infrastructure put attacking Israel (and its occupation) aside. Work with what you have. Yes its easy for me to say this because I am not there but its easier than feeding into the "but the babies are dying" mentality because that only feeds into depression and anger. Hell, humans around the globe are being oppressed everyday. What about Africans? What about Sudan? Women being raped everyday. Children being born into a poor world. I even had one African mother very recently who told me that when she had her 2 year-old daughter, she wanted to throw her in a river because she was the product of a rape and also because she was poor.

She somehow made her way out her to the States (I didn't ask her how she came here) but has her own business and is doing well for herself. So, in the darkness there is hope but we have to come up with solutions. Now is the time to talk about solutions not who is dying more in each others country.

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Tara
 
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Quote Tara Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2007 at 3:58pm

 Salaam Alaykum,

You are very passionate to the plight of the Israeli children's death but have contradicted by saying the ill equipped army cannot compare to the death toll of Palestinian children. I am confused. Some still need proof in this day and age that there is not ethnic cleansing of Palestine? Then read "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine." No bullets or bombs..just a book. Published by www.oneworldpublications  Quote's from readers 1. 'If there is to be real peace in Palestine/Israel, the moral vigour and intellectual clarity of "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine will have been a major contribitor to it. 2. "Illan Pappe has written an extraordinary book that is of profound relevance to the past, present, and future of Israel/Palestinians relations' Richard Falk Professor of International Law, Princeton University. 3. 'Biblical moral clarity and humaneness' Walid Khalidi Center for Middle Eastern Studies, Harvard University. More proof watch the dvd "Peace,Propaganda, and the Promised Land"  Perhaps the documentary of the Jenin massacre and the Israeli coverup titled "Jenin" available at www.AFD.com Brother please the proof is overwhelming and the world is aware. I hope you can think outside the box on this one. The Israeli's are war criminals not the other way around. I interpet you feel sensitivity to the Israel struggle and that struggle is a fake one. Don't let them fool you brother.

Wasalaam

Tara

 

 

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Tara
 
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Quote Tara Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2007 at 4:17pm

 There is violence here and all across the globe but Palestine is our holy land and the ummah has a duty to protect our interest there. This is not save the whales my friend. The only thing Africa and Palestine have in common is Poverty and Aparthied. At least Millions of aid and worldwide money goes to Africa..the Palestinians are are swept under the rug. Nelson Mandela as you know once political prisoner then President of the Nation. Ironic...What if sir Israfil one day it is a Palestinian?

Wasalaam

Tara

 

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Quote Sign*Reader Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2007 at 10:04pm
Originally posted by Tara

 There is violence here and all across the globe but Palestine is our holy land and the ummah has a duty to protect our interest there. This is not save the whales my friend. The only thing Africa and Palestine have in common is Poverty and Aparthied. At least Millions of aid and worldwide money goes to Africa..the Palestinians are are swept under the rug. Nelson Mandela as you know once political prisoner then President of the Nation. Ironic...What if sir Israfil one day it is a Palestinian?

Wasalaam

Tara

 


ASA
Sister Tara
 Finally you hit the nail on the head and stated the  significant issues instead of debating the trivial cartoon stuff . I can hear you loud and clear!
As matter of fact you have thrown a very difficult challenge to so called Muslim men to prove their worth as what can they do to free the holy land  from the usurpers. I am afraid your wish may fall of on the deaf ears here except a few on IC who are on same wave length.  The first priority to respond to this clarion call is the reconstruction of Islamic thought in Muslims who became enslaved to the colonial and neo colonial control for their fat dumb and happy attitude.
The originator of the tread is a person new to Islam please try to understand his limitations in the perspective, he is not alone the brothers in the Arab lands are even worst shape, they are deathly afraid even before how powerful were the Israeli and her friends. He doesn't realize though this Jewish controlled policy is bankrupting this country. The Jewish neo con pushed Iraq war based on utter lies that has an ultimate cost estimated at over a trillion dollars, the most of it has shamelessly been already borrowed from the communist China.
I would say don't feel lonesome there are other places where the masses are being decimated in so called Muslim countries by the neo con mercenaries with violence, looting and apartheid like divisive utter poverty and deprivation, the latest example happens to be a secular dictatorship in Pakistan.
Your have an excellent point on apartheid and should not be lost on Israfil cuz of his background.
The Palestinian defiance in the face of the Israeli and its hyper power Anglo saxon  lackeys deserves an atta boy!


Edited by Sign*Reader
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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