IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: This is why Palestine will not succeed

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hat2010

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Posted: 19 July 2007 at 8:26pm

Peace all,

Originally posted by Israfil

.....I now know why I don't support the current
Palestinian regime.

Now, you know why. Because of a tasteless, daffy clip re-posted by an
anti-Palestinian website, Palestinian Media Watch.

You crack pretty easy under pressure, bro. I can only imagine what will
further happen to your support for the underdogs at the pre-release
party for the "GOOFY vs THE LEARNED ELDERS OF ZION" DVD.

The Mickey bin Hamas clip, while pandering and pathetic, hardly
constitutes ground for some faith shaking in the Palestinian's cause.
Check out some sober sites on the actual issues instead of a site run by a
biased counter terrorism analyst, whose wiki happily (for him) only
resembles his own handwritten bio on the Palestinian Media Watch
website. (Called a 'vanity piece' in wiki speak)

Rather than actively concern one self with Palestinian families bulldozed
in their own houses...let's circle up with our the right-minded, peaceful
Muslim leagues and defend a cartoon against misuse and violent
pedagogy? Type 'Mickey' and 'sweatshop' into a google search, to find
out how I could esp. care less how this loved, but worthless, corporate
image for kids is hijacked by some manipulative Palestinian media bozos.

Instilling hate in children: they simply have nothing at all on other
countries' 'artists' in the mainstream media, viz. America. To avoid
partisan derailing, let's just agree that ALL countries have it in their will,
budget and best interest to flood the imaginations of the impressionable
young with patriotic, xenophobic crap - and let's not lose heart or get too
excited about this dopey little video before, as Christ might say, we pluck
the dopey little video from our eyes.

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Tara

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Posted: 19 July 2007 at 10:32pm

Salaam Alaykum,

I have to apologize for my previous post. I have yet to figure out why Palestine is criticised for reacting to oppresion? Do you think that a good Palestinian family would give this to their children. " If a dog is kicked at least it is allowed to bark, we are not even allowed to bark." quote from the documentary of the Jenin massacre by Israel by a Palestinian who spent years in an Israeli jail only to have his home and village obliverated. Many Palestinians are finally getting their message across with film and music. Every Resolution The UN has passed for Palestine the Israelis continue to ignore and massacre them. These children are affected by the oppression regime, military occupation, and are no strangers to rubble,artillery shells, and land mines. Amnesty International is overwhelmed as what it has deemed WAR CRIMES against Palestinians. Allah SWT will soon bring to them peace and the justice they deserve as others have mentioned. Patience, preserverence, and hope. Let us never give up on them as the rest of the world has done. Peacefully Inshallah. They are a warm people with incredible spirit,humor, and the ability to suffer this indignation, with what little honor they have left. The one true Judge Allah SWT will determine the fate of the wicked and those who have gone astray. May Peace be with you soon Palestine forever in my heart.

Masalaam

Tara

Alhamduallah

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Israfil

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Posted: 19 July 2007 at 10:49pm

Jamal,

When I say I don't support the Palestinians I'm merely stating I don't support their government. their government is about annihilating Israel. Now, from my understanding this regime sound slike they are not about dialogue but rather physical action. Whether the video clip was from an anti-Palestinian site or not is not even the issue. the issue is, the Palestinians have a government that is not about dialogue but rather about violence. Palestinians are frankly not the poorest and the most suffering of all people in the world. I'm not gonna sit here and pity them just because they are Muslim. Frankly I see suffering people everyday in the States. What I don't like are governments that condone violence and Hamas is one of them.

Jamal you may be the one of thousands of Muslims that like to blame everyone accept oneself but I frankly look inside the glass house before i look outside.

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Crimsonrider91

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Posted: 20 July 2007 at 6:37am

Look, I know all about what the Palestinians are facing but preaching hate
will NEVER solve the problem, ever. What it will do is incite more violence,
this gives the Israelis the excuse that their trying to deal with terrorists,
thus the cycle continues. And for God's sake, be realistic, you think
fighting will help them against the better equipped soldiers of Israel? Who
are allies with the U.S.? Gimme a break.

Tara, there is a difference between barking and showing the world this
oppression and screaming ' I SHALL DESTROY MY OPPRESSORS!' They
want to help themselves? The Govt. should try finding a way to fix this
problem without indoctrinating people into becoming violent monsters to
try to fight on a battlefield that they could never conquer.

This sort of culture is just as self-destructive as the Israeli culture as
Crass accused Israel of being. Don't get me wrong, Israel has done some
undeniably horrible things, the Palestinians are indeed in a shit-hole (
please pardon my language) and I sympathize but that does not make
their actions any better.

What do you think uninformed people from the West would think if they
saw this video? They'd think the Palestinians were monsters. In fact I'm
sure the Israeli Govt. uses videos like this to convince their people into
thinking that the Palestinians are indeed monsters.

Having faith in Allah is it's own reward.

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Crimsonrider91

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Posted: 20 July 2007 at 6:44am

And please, sister Tara, I don't mean to come across as rude, but if you
don't like any of our opinions, just disagree and argue your point of view,
don't try to give us lame guilt-trips with the ' maybe I came into the
wrong website'.

Israfil does in no way ( nor do I) imply that he cares not for the people of
Palestine, just that what they're doing is wrong, both on a moral level and
( to me) a practical level.

Having faith in Allah is it's own reward.

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Tara

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Posted: 20 July 2007 at 7:23am

Salaam Alaykum,

"The people of Palestine" are not all extremists. This kind of thinking breeds Islamaphobia. The new regime is desperate to fill the people with hope. Many do not like it but if they were to speak out they would be classified as sympathizers. Why are we harder on ourselves than others suffering around the world? The war in Bosnia, for example, and the genocide there, nobody critcized anyone except the leader of that massacre Milosecvich. That was genocide then and it is no different in Palestine. Ariel Sharon's former deputy stated on more than one occassion "it was his objective to rid the region of Palestinians altogether." Praise Allah this mastermind of evil lies dead or in a coma. Maybe some of you misunderstand me because I live in the west and media commentators here are only allowed to begin filming after the Palestinian's are provoked due to a massive PR campaign by Israel in the United States. There are Jews and Israeli's who condemn the violence inflicted by them on the Palestinian's regularly in local papers in the region as well as The Village Voice a newspaper out of New York. Jews Against The Occupation. I understand the frustration and yes I agree the behavior of violence in an extremesit way hurts their public opinion and their cause, but what may I ask you suggest they handle the situation? Perhaps launch their own PR campaign that states sorry we are not violent by nature we are just tired of getting killed.

Alhamduallah

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Tara

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Posted: 20 July 2007 at 7:58am

Salaam Alaykum,

Again forgive for the comment about the IC. I do love this site and perhaps as a newbie I am a little out of my league here. There is hope and optimism for Palestine. Many courageous filmakers, artists, and poets are winning global awards for their films, music, ect. Perhaps the war will be won Inshallah with no more guns and bombs but these little seeds of peace. Hamas is a force to be reckoned with and yes I agree is self destructive militarily and morally the cartoon was wrong but there is a bigger picture. There are peaceful families living in the region we can never abadon them. They are dying. Yes there are problems all over the world and sometimes you must pick your battles. We can't win this one. If the flegling Islamic ummah thought this way we would not have Islam today. It is not 1400 years ago though so how can we spread the word and open the world's hearts and minds to a nation living in a prison. One person at a time. Peacefully. However if someone came into your home to rob, rape, and steal from your home you would call the police right? They are calling on us the world and are discouraged because nobody seems to be hearing their cry. Allah SWT hears there cry and doors will open and freedom for Palestine will be heard around the world. I am a hopeless optimist..I hope it happens in my lifetime. I have seen walls come down before torn apart by the hands of the people oppressed on the other side. In the end as in the case of Qarun the people see the punishment of the oppressor with their own eyes. Never lose hope Palestine...The end of the oppression will end soon.With all my Iman I believe...know call me a fool, I don't care I believe.

Wasalaam

Tara

Alhamduallah

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Israfil

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Posts: 3984

Posted: 20 July 2007 at 11:03am

It's funny when you criticize Hamas people defer to the Palestinian people as if Hamas is a representative of the people. But, perhaps maybe they are, maybe not. They say the people elected them so in respect to this could it be possible that the people believe in what Hamas believe? That is a question for think tanks I suppose. Tara the Israeli government for sure is not about peace, it is about the survival of Israel. However in contrast to this can you prove that Hamas is a peaceful government? If so I would like someone to prove that Hamas is a peaceful government. Not just by what they do for their people but internationally how are they peaceful? I need proofs not people running away from the criticism.

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Topic: This is why Palestine will not succeed
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Author	Message
hat2010 Senior Member Joined: 10 October 2006 Location: Neutral Zone Online Status: Offline Posts: 562	Posted: 19 July 2007 at 8:26pm
	Peace all, *Originally posted by Israfil* .....I now know why I don't support the current Palestinian regime. Now, you know why. Because of a tasteless, daffy clip re-posted by an anti-Palestinian website, Palestinian Media Watch. You crack pretty easy under pressure, bro. I can only imagine what will further happen to your support for the underdogs at the pre-release party for the "GOOFY vs THE LEARNED ELDERS OF ZION" DVD. The Mickey bin Hamas clip, while pandering and pathetic, hardly constitutes ground for some faith shaking in the Palestinian's cause. Check out some sober sites on the actual issues instead of a site run by a biased counter terrorism analyst, whose wiki happily (for him) only resembles his own handwritten bio on the Palestinian Media Watch website. (Called a 'vanity piece' in wiki speak) Rather than actively concern one self with Palestinian families bulldozed in their own houses...let's circle up with our the right-minded, peaceful Muslim leagues and defend a cartoon against misuse and violent pedagogy? Type 'Mickey' and 'sweatshop' into a google search, to find out how I could esp. care less how this loved, but worthless, corporate image for kids is hijacked by some manipulative Palestinian media bozos. Instilling hate in children: they simply have nothing at all on other countries' 'artists' in the mainstream media, viz. America. To avoid partisan derailing, let's just agree that ALL countries have it in their will, budget and best interest to flood the imaginations of the impressionable young with patriotic, xenophobic crap - and let's not lose heart or get too excited about this dopey little video before, as Christ might say, we pluck the dopey little video from our eyes.
	IP Logged

Tara Newbie Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 35	Posted: 19 July 2007 at 10:32pm
	Salaam Alaykum, I have to apologize for my previous post. I have yet to figure out why Palestine is criticised for reacting to oppresion? Do you think that a good Palestinian family would give this to their children. " If a dog is kicked at least it is allowed to bark, we are not even allowed to bark." quote from the documentary of the Jenin massacre by Israel by a Palestinian who spent years in an Israeli jail only to have his home and village obliverated. Many Palestinians are finally getting their message across with film and music. Every Resolution The UN has passed for Palestine the Israelis continue to ignore and massacre them. These children are affected by the oppression regime, military occupation, and are no strangers to rubble,artillery shells, and land mines. Amnesty International is overwhelmed as what it has deemed WAR CRIMES against Palestinians. Allah SWT will soon bring to them peace and the justice they deserve as others have mentioned. Patience, preserverence, and hope. Let us never give up on them as the rest of the world has done. Peacefully Inshallah. They are a warm people with incredible spirit,humor, and the ability to suffer this indignation, with what little honor they have left. The one true Judge Allah SWT will determine the fate of the wicked and those who have gone astray. May Peace be with you soon Palestine forever in my heart. Masalaam Tara
	Alhamduallah
	IP Logged

Israfil Senior Member Joined: 08 September 2003 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3984	Posted: 19 July 2007 at 10:49pm
	Jamal, When I say I don't support the Palestinians I'm merely stating I don't support their government. their government is about annihilating Israel. Now, from my understanding this regime sound slike they are not about dialogue but rather physical action. Whether the video clip was from an anti-Palestinian site or not is not even the issue. the issue is, the Palestinians have a government that is not about dialogue but rather about violence. Palestinians are frankly not the poorest and the most suffering of all people in the world. I'm not gonna sit here and pity them just because they are Muslim. Frankly I see suffering people everyday in the States. What I don't like are governments that condone violence and Hamas is one of them. Jamal you may be the one of thousands of Muslims that like to blame everyone accept oneself but I frankly look inside the glass house before i look outside.
	IP Logged

Crimsonrider91 Newbie Joined: 04 November 2006 Location: Qatar Online Status: Offline Posts: 24	Posted: 20 July 2007 at 6:37am
	Look, I know all about what the Palestinians are facing but preaching hate will NEVER solve the problem, ever. What it will do is incite more violence, this gives the Israelis the excuse that their trying to deal with terrorists, thus the cycle continues. And for God's sake, be realistic, you think fighting will help them against the better equipped soldiers of Israel? Who are allies with the U.S.? Gimme a break. Tara, there is a difference between barking and showing the world this oppression and screaming ' I SHALL DESTROY MY OPPRESSORS!' They want to help themselves? The Govt. should try finding a way to fix this problem without indoctrinating people into becoming violent monsters to try to fight on a battlefield that they could never conquer. This sort of culture is just as self-destructive as the Israeli culture as Crass accused Israel of being. Don't get me wrong, Israel has done some undeniably horrible things, the Palestinians are indeed in a shit-hole ( please pardon my language) and I sympathize but that does not make their actions any better. What do you think uninformed people from the West would think if they saw this video? They'd think the Palestinians were monsters. In fact I'm sure the Israeli Govt. uses videos like this to convince their people into thinking that the Palestinians are indeed monsters.
	Having faith in Allah is it's own reward.
	IP Logged

Crimsonrider91 Newbie Joined: 04 November 2006 Location: Qatar Online Status: Offline Posts: 24	Posted: 20 July 2007 at 6:44am
	And please, sister Tara, I don't mean to come across as rude, but if you don't like any of our opinions, just disagree and argue your point of view, don't try to give us lame guilt-trips with the ' maybe I came into the wrong website'. Israfil does in no way ( nor do I) imply that he cares not for the people of Palestine, just that what they're doing is wrong, both on a moral level and ( to me) a practical level.
	Having faith in Allah is it's own reward.
	IP Logged

Tara Newbie Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 35	Posted: 20 July 2007 at 7:23am
	Salaam Alaykum, "The people of Palestine" are not all extremists. This kind of thinking breeds Islamaphobia. The new regime is desperate to fill the people with hope. Many do not like it but if they were to speak out they would be classified as sympathizers. Why are we harder on ourselves than others suffering around the world? The war in Bosnia, for example, and the genocide there, nobody critcized anyone except the leader of that massacre Milosecvich. That was genocide then and it is no different in Palestine. Ariel Sharon's former deputy stated on more than one occassion "it was his objective to rid the region of Palestinians altogether." Praise Allah this mastermind of evil lies dead or in a coma. Maybe some of you misunderstand me because I live in the west and media commentators here are only allowed to begin filming after the Palestinian's are provoked due to a massive PR campaign by Israel in the United States. There are Jews and Israeli's who condemn the violence inflicted by them on the Palestinian's regularly in local papers in the region as well as The Village Voice a newspaper out of New York. Jews Against The Occupation. I understand the frustration and yes I agree the behavior of violence in an extremesit way hurts their public opinion and their cause, but what may I ask you suggest they handle the situation? Perhaps launch their own PR campaign that states sorry we are not violent by nature we are just tired of getting killed.
	Alhamduallah
	IP Logged

Tara Newbie Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 35	Posted: 20 July 2007 at 7:58am
	Salaam Alaykum, Again forgive for the comment about the IC. I do love this site and perhaps as a newbie I am a little out of my league here. There is hope and optimism for Palestine. Many courageous filmakers, artists, and poets are winning global awards for their films, music, ect. Perhaps the war will be won Inshallah with no more guns and bombs but these little seeds of peace. Hamas is a force to be reckoned with and yes I agree is self destructive militarily and morally the cartoon was wrong but there is a bigger picture. There are peaceful families living in the region we can never abadon them. They are dying. Yes there are problems all over the world and sometimes you must pick your battles. We can't win this one. If the flegling Islamic ummah thought this way we would not have Islam today. It is not 1400 years ago though so how can we spread the word and open the world's hearts and minds to a nation living in a prison. One person at a time. Peacefully. However if someone came into your home to rob, rape, and steal from your home you would call the police right? They are calling on us the world and are discouraged because nobody seems to be hearing their cry. Allah SWT hears there cry and doors will open and freedom for Palestine will be heard around the world. I am a hopeless optimist..I hope it happens in my lifetime. I have seen walls come down before torn apart by the hands of the people oppressed on the other side. In the end as in the case of Qarun the people see the punishment of the oppressor with their own eyes. Never lose hope Palestine...The end of the oppression will end soon.With all my Iman I believe...know call me a fool, I don't care I believe. Wasalaam Tara
	Alhamduallah
	IP Logged

Israfil Senior Member Joined: 08 September 2003 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3984	Posted: 20 July 2007 at 11:03am
	It's funny when you criticize Hamas people defer to the Palestinian people as if Hamas is a representative of the people. But, perhaps maybe they are, maybe not. They say the people elected them so in respect to this could it be possible that the people believe in what Hamas believe? That is a question for think tanks I suppose. Tara the Israeli government for sure is not about peace, it is about the survival of Israel. However in contrast to this can you prove that Hamas is a peaceful government? If so I would like someone to prove that Hamas is a peaceful government. Not just by what they do for their people but internationally how are they peaceful? I need proofs not people running away from the criticism.
	IP Logged