IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: This is why Palestine will not succeed

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abuayisha

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Posted: 13 May 2007 at 11:21am

Originally posted by superme

Originally posted by Israfil

Originally posted by crasss

Originally posted by Israfil

I empathize with the Palestinian people as far as their frustration is concerned, but at the same time violence is not the way and if you cannot avoid being violent don't bring that to the children. Children do not need to learn how to be violent.

Everybody educates their children like they want.

True,

Bu that doesn't mean that their education is rational and moral. Frankly, I find the Hamas government a group of men (or just people) mentally defective.

It is expedient for those with inferiority complex syndrome to stand to side with the stronger parties - and chastising the weaker party. It gives them a short burst of satisfaction as the victor which they failed to achieve by the meanest available means.

It is honourable for us to be slain by the smart foes rather than gaining victory by such kind of assistance.

As in the case of apartheid South Africa our moral compass dictates that we appall the treatment of Palestinians, and we must never give Palestinians a “pass” to behave as they like. In our faith the end does not justify the means.

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Israfil

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Posted: 13 May 2007 at 4:30pm

Originally posted by crasss

Originally posted by Israfil

I don't need to argue from an Islamic point of view simply a logical point of view.

The derivation methods for a fatwa are logical and axiomatically reduce back to the Islamic teachings. Further, the fatwa must have sufficient jima (consensus).

Immorality consists, by definition, in a violation of the rules of the One God. Which rule or rules were broken? I don't see how you can qualify the content of the Hamas television program as immoral without a fatwa.

The position I was taking was the non-religious view. Meaning, any human being with rational capacity that looks at the video would hold it as immoral behavior. Crass, you are justifying their behavior by challenging me to present evidence in relation to Islamic law and prove whether they are just or unjust. It's freggin common sense! I assume you don't have children (if you do and support the Hamas video then i'd call you a mentally defective parent) if you did, hypothetically speaking, would you teach your children that kind of behavior?

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Israfil

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Posted: 13 May 2007 at 4:37pm

Originally posted by crasss

Originally posted by Israfil

If you look around the world most children in good environments do not sing songs of weaponry and hatred.

I've actually watched a clip from the Hamas television programme. It is the callers who sing these songs, and not the presentators. You're asking to censure the audience. What point is there in doing that?

Originally posted by Israfil

Only Hamas does.

I don't know about that. Every country at war publishes propaganda against the enemy, and rallies the population, including the children, to support the war effort.

I'd be really interested in hearing a fatwa concerning this issue, and to see a law-based derivation of whether this is moral or immoral.

Obviously your eyes are failing you. Yes the callers were singing the aongs but if you look at the Mickey Mouse imposter and the young girl, their body language obviously show their involvement. The young girl even slightly reprimand one caller for using the word "surrender" in one of his/her songs? I'm asking to censure st**idity, which I'm sure is half the population there.

I can't believe your brain crass. I mean, do you even have an understanding of right and wrong without it being written? What makes any group righteous for teaching their children to watch shows which glorifies hatred through child shows? The whole time the Mickey Mouse is saying "Allah willing, Allah willing" while at the same time saying that they will "take back Palestine." these people are not real muslims in my opinion especially one who advocates violence through children. No wonder the muslims are seen as weak because we expect women and children to fight battles for men. I find it cowardice that Hamas would educate their children in this manner. They are not men in my opinion and if I had the chance, spit on their pitiful flag in front of them. This kind of behavior angers me because I have seen so many kids on the street dead without a chance at life and what Hamas is asking is for these kids to live short lives for what? For some st**id war.

As long as Arabs in that region keep themselves from rebuilding their country and focusing on war the stronger Israel will grow. The Arabs will never get their country back. They might as well get used to being the Israeli armies foot stool.

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crasss

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Posted: 13 May 2007 at 7:34pm

Originally posted by Israfil

The whole time the Mickey Mouse is saying "Allah willing, Allah willing" while at the same time saying that they will "take back Palestine."

Because strange but true, it is Allah who will give them Palestine back, as a result of their faith and obedience to Allah.

It took me a long time to realize this, because it looks irrational at first glance, until you seriously think about it. The Jews actually know it too, or should know it too, because their own scriptures warn for this. Disobedience to the One God, destroys the people.

By sticking to Allah, the One God, and his rules, while the depravity fest continues in Israel, the Palestinians will witness how the enemy is slowly but surely destroying himself, and eventually take back Palestine.

It is indeed Allah who will make the difference, and nothing else.

The Palestinians need patience, however, because the speed of the underlying process is unpredictable.

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Israfil

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Posted: 14 May 2007 at 1:27pm

Why don't you help the Palestinians out instead of messing around on IC

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crasss

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Posted: 14 May 2007 at 8:36pm

Originally posted by Israfil

Why don't you help the Palestinians out instead of messing around on IC

I am not the One God.

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Crimsonrider91

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Posted: 19 July 2007 at 11:51am

Assalamu Alaikum dudes and dudettes,

Crass, I'll have to side with Israfil here. More importantly, what
justification do you have for condoning the spreading of hate?

Another thing: Yes, though the Qu'ran is a guide and we should follow it,
if we can't tell the difference between right and wrong without having to
dig out Suras or to find Ahadith in absolutely every aspect of life, what
then in God's Gracious name is the point of Him giving us brains?

Believe it or not, Islam does teach to the ideas of logic that Israfil chooses
to follow. I think maybe you weren't getting his point. His point was that
it was so obviously wrong that you don't even need reference to know it
is, not that we should disregard the word of Allah ( SWT).

If we really are wrong, howzabout you try to beat us with your logic? Find
all of us a reference that justifies this and you'll very likely shut us all up.
Show us how Islam justifies teaching kids to kill Jews is right, show us
how this can be encouraged.

If you simply shrug off my request, I'm afraid that you are not worth
respect.

Forgive me if I have assumed unfairly, if I have then please correct any
idiotic foul-ups.

Having faith in Allah is it's own reward.

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Tara

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Posted: 19 July 2007 at 6:40pm

How , How, Can you be critical of the Palestinians? I am shocked and hurt and appalled. These people are living under illegal occupation, suffer appalling living conditions, are beaten jailed, raped killed, under the Illegal occupation. When are homes are bulldozed with the residents still inside and the United Nations has files and files of International Human rights violations and a genocide of the Palestinians forgive me if I could care less about cartoons.

I am sorry Perhaps I found the wrong web site..maybe I won't be back I will never be ashamed to be muslim by the actions of an oppressed nation neglected by the world. What else do they have? When you ask a Palestinian he will tell you death is better than living like this.

Alhamduallah

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Topic: This is why Palestine will not succeed
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Author	Message
abuayisha Senior Member Joined: 05 October 1999 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3993	Posted: 13 May 2007 at 11:21am
	*Originally posted by superme* *Originally posted by Israfil* *Originally posted by crasss* *Originally posted by Israfil* I empathize with the Palestinian people as far as their frustration is concerned, but at the same time violence is not the way and if you cannot avoid being violent don't bring that to the children. Children do not need to learn how to be violent. Everybody educates their children like they want. True, Bu that doesn't mean that their education is rational and moral. Frankly, I find the Hamas government a group of men (or just people) mentally defective. It is expedient for those with inferiority complex syndrome to stand to side with the stronger parties - and chastising the weaker party. It gives them a short burst of satisfaction as the victor which they failed to achieve by the meanest available means. It is honourable for us to be slain by the smart foes rather than gaining victory by such kind of assistance. As in the case of apartheid South Africa our moral compass dictates that we appall the treatment of Palestinians, and we must never give Palestinians a “pass” to behave as they like. In our faith the end does not justify the means.
	IP Logged

Israfil Senior Member Joined: 08 September 2003 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3984	Posted: 13 May 2007 at 4:30pm
	*Originally posted by crasss* *Originally posted by Israfil* I don't need to argue from an Islamic point of view simply a logical point of view. The derivation methods for a fatwa are logical and axiomatically reduce back to the Islamic teachings. Further, the fatwa must have sufficient jima (consensus). Immorality consists, by definition, in a violation of the rules of the One God. Which rule or rules were broken? I don't see how you can qualify the content of the Hamas television program as immoral without a fatwa. The position I was taking was the non-religious view. Meaning, any human being with rational capacity that looks at the video would hold it as immoral behavior. Crass, you are justifying their behavior by challenging me to present evidence in relation to Islamic law and prove whether they are just or unjust. It's freggin common sense! I assume you don't have children (if you do and support the Hamas video then i'd call you a mentally defective parent) if you did, hypothetically speaking, would you teach your children that kind of behavior?
	IP Logged

Israfil Senior Member Joined: 08 September 2003 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3984	Posted: 13 May 2007 at 4:37pm
	*Originally posted by crasss* *Originally posted by Israfil* If you look around the world most children in good environments do not sing songs of weaponry and hatred. I've actually watched a clip from the Hamas television programme. It is the callers who sing these songs, and not the presentators. You're asking to censure the audience. What point is there in doing that? *Originally posted by Israfil* Only Hamas does. I don't know about that. Every country at war publishes propaganda against the enemy, and rallies the population, including the children, to support the war effort. I'd be really interested in hearing a fatwa concerning this issue, and to see a law-based derivation of whether this is moral or immoral. Obviously your eyes are failing you. Yes the callers were singing the aongs but if you look at the Mickey Mouse imposter and the young girl, their body language obviously show their involvement. The young girl even slightly reprimand one caller for using the word "surrender" in one of his/her songs? I'm asking to censure stidity, which I'm sure is half the population there. I can't believe your brain crass. I mean, do you even have an understanding of right and wrong without it being written? What makes any group righteous for teaching their children to watch shows which glorifies hatred through child shows? The whole time the Mickey Mouse is saying "Allah willing, Allah willing" while at the same time saying that they will "take back Palestine." these people are not real muslims in my opinion especially one who advocates violence through children. No wonder the muslims are seen as weak because we expect women and children to fight battles for men. I find it cowardice that Hamas would educate their children in this manner. They are not men in my opinion and if I had the chance, spit on their pitiful flag in front of them. This kind of behavior angers me because I have seen so many kids on the street dead without a chance at life and what Hamas is asking is for these kids to live short lives for what? For some stid war. As long as Arabs in that region keep themselves from rebuilding their country and focusing on war the stronger Israel will grow. The Arabs will never get their country back. They might as well get used to being the Israeli armies foot stool.
	IP Logged

crasss Senior Member Joined: 01 April 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 516	Posted: 13 May 2007 at 7:34pm
	*Originally posted by Israfil* The whole time the Mickey Mouse is saying "Allah willing, Allah willing" while at the same time saying that they will "take back Palestine." Because strange but true, it is Allah who will give them Palestine back, as a result of their faith and obedience to Allah. It took me a long time to realize this, because it looks irrational at first glance, until you seriously think about it. The Jews actually know it too, or should know it too, because their own scriptures warn for this. Disobedience to the One God, destroys the people. By sticking to Allah, the One God, and his rules, while the depravity fest continues in Israel, the Palestinians will witness how the enemy is slowly but surely destroying himself, and eventually take back Palestine. It is indeed Allah who will make the difference, and nothing else. The Palestinians need patience, however, because the speed of the underlying process is unpredictable.
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Israfil Senior Member Joined: 08 September 2003 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3984	Posted: 14 May 2007 at 1:27pm
	Why don't you help the Palestinians out instead of messing around on IC
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crasss Senior Member Joined: 01 April 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 516	Posted: 14 May 2007 at 8:36pm
	*Originally posted by Israfil* Why don't you help the Palestinians out instead of messing around on IC I am not the One God.
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Crimsonrider91 Newbie Joined: 04 November 2006 Location: Qatar Online Status: Offline Posts: 24	Posted: 19 July 2007 at 11:51am
	Assalamu Alaikum dudes and dudettes, Crass, I'll have to side with Israfil here. More importantly, what justification do you have for condoning the spreading of hate? Another thing: Yes, though the Qu'ran is a guide and we should follow it, if we can't tell the difference between right and wrong without having to dig out Suras or to find Ahadith in absolutely every aspect of life, what then in God's Gracious name is the point of Him giving us brains? Believe it or not, Islam does teach to the ideas of logic that Israfil chooses to follow. I think maybe you weren't getting his point. His point was that it was so obviously wrong that you don't even need reference to know it is, not that we should disregard the word of Allah ( SWT). If we really are wrong, howzabout you try to beat us with your logic? Find all of us a reference that justifies this and you'll very likely shut us all up. Show us how Islam justifies teaching kids to kill Jews is right, show us how this can be encouraged. If you simply shrug off my request, I'm afraid that you are not worth respect. Forgive me if I have assumed unfairly, if I have then please correct any idiotic foul-ups.
	Having faith in Allah is it's own reward.
	IP Logged

Tara Newbie Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 35	Posted: 19 July 2007 at 6:40pm
	How , How, Can you be critical of the Palestinians? I am shocked and hurt and appalled. These people are living under illegal occupation, suffer appalling living conditions, are beaten jailed, raped killed, under the Illegal occupation. When are homes are bulldozed with the residents still inside and the United Nations has files and files of International Human rights violations and a genocide of the Palestinians forgive me if I could care less about cartoons. I am sorry Perhaps I found the wrong web site..maybe I won't be back I will never be ashamed to be muslim by the actions of an oppressed nation neglected by the world. What else do they have? When you ask a Palestinian he will tell you death is better than living like this.
	Alhamduallah
	IP Logged