Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

Islam for non-Muslims
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islam for non-Muslims
Message Icon Topic: Dealing With Doubt Post Reply Post New Topic
Page  of 4 Next >>
Author Message
abdul-quddus
 
Starter
Starter
Avatar

Joined: 07 March 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1
Quote abdul-quddus Replybullet Topic: Dealing With Doubt
    Posted: 13 April 2007 at 2:14pm
As-salaamu ‘alaykum.

My name is Abdul Quddus and, primarily but not necessarily, I am requesting responses from Muslims. I’m writing in all sincerity and honesty. Any personal views and experiences would be appreciated. Like most reverts to Islaam, I was raised in a Judeo-Christian milieu wherein anthropomorphism and polytheism were abound in mainstream belief. As a youth, I rebelled against these innovations and preferred the standpoint of atheism. However, after discovering the Qur’aan, I became instantly captivated by the message of tawheed. Not just by the Oneness of Allaah (swt), but also the Uniqueness of Allaah (swt). I became a devout Muslim and fundamentalist. There was nothing wrong with strictly adhering to the “fundamentals” of my religion, I would boastfully remark. Eventually, a fundamental aspect of Islaam became problematic for me.

Here are my questions: How have you, as a practicing Muslim, dealt with the distinguishing characteristics of Allaah (swt) in light of Soorah al-Ikhlaas? Specifically, I’m referring to His Shin, His Eye, His Face, His Right and Left Hand, His Finger, His Foot, His Throne, etc. By far, these characteristics have been difficult to accept. Secondly, how do you approach the apparently pernicious nature of Hellfire proclaimed in the Qur’aan? If this struggle pertains to your experience, how have you coped when you confronted the questionable subject matter in your religion?

Surprisingly, the greatest obstacle to becoming a better Muslim was something within my Qur’aan. Perhaps, in all fairness, the problem is within my mind only. I still remember the day I read of The Shin in one particular ayaah. The apparent cruelty to be meted out upon disbelievers in Hellfire is quite disturbing to me. I couldn’t believe in jinn or the story of Nuh. It’s strange how just the disbelief in jinn makes one a kaafir. Devastatingly, this hasn’t only affected my ‘ibaadah but my very status as a Muslim. In 2004, I became an apostate of Islaam. Have any practicing Muslims gone through this? How did you survive? To get a more detailed account of my conversion and experience, you’re welcome to read my testimony at http://khalas.wordpress.com titled Journey Through Islam.

One would think, as a former Muslim, that I’d casually assimilate well with ex-Muslims. However, my views do not homogenize with most apostates. Basically, perhaps eighty percent of those who have left the deen fall into either atheism or Christianity. One group of ex-Muslims that I most disagree with are the Christians, probably because they have an axe to grind with Islaam. Many of them are resentful of their experiences and become hatemongering polemics. They attack Islaam as if the deen has not an atom of wholesomeness or usefulness. Even I myself cannot fathom how a proper Muslim can suddenly abandon tawheed for man-worship. Speaking as an ethical atheist, I find atheism lacking a moral compass. The atheist ex-Muslim community is far from communal. It’s lonely. Like cats, they’re far too intelligent and independent to come together and would rather choose to roam.

Many of my friends – most of whom are Muslim – claim that my understanding and knowledge needs to be corrected. If I re-revert back to Islaam, I’d most likely become an extremist pushing my fellow brothers into the masjid and campaigning for the implementation of sharee’ah in my society. It’s so cliche, I know. But if you truly believe in something, why settle for mediocrity? I’d appreciate any advice, opinion, correction, or even admonishment. I’m expressing myself to you all in hopes that someone cares to offer constructive criticism.
"Allah changeth not the condition of a folk until they (first) change that which is in their hearts."¯ Soorah ar-Ra'd, Aayah 11
IP IP Logged
abuzaid
Male 
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 November 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 163
Quote abuzaid Replybullet Posted: 15 April 2007 at 10:00pm

Just as query..

In the above post you have spoken only about God and His attributes. Have you really understood concept of Prophethood in Islam?

In the above post you have expressed two doubts.

one is about attributes of Allah SW and about pernicious nature of hellfire. But I want you to explain further why its is difficult to believe in these things.

Further, I have gone thorugh yor writing at http://khalas.wordpress.com/ where you have mentioned about flat earth issues. If true this was just a mistake fron Shaikh bin baaz. There is no single unequivocable verse in Quran mentioning "earth is flat" He was forced to take back his book was only to save his honour and not for the credibility of Islam itself.

IP IP Logged
abuzaid
Male 
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 November 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 163
Quote abuzaid Replybullet Posted: 15 April 2007 at 10:04pm

one more point..

What made you not to believe in jinn? and to reject story of Prophet Nooh AS.

IP IP Logged
Idris
 
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 12 April 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 9
Quote Idris Replybullet Posted: 16 April 2007 at 2:13am
Originally posted by abdul-quddus

As-salaamu ‘alaykum.


wa alakum salam.


My name is Abdul Quddus and, primarily but not necessarily, I am requesting responses from Muslims. I’m writing in all sincerity and honesty. Any personal views and experiences would be appreciated. Like most reverts to Islaam, I was raised in a Judeo-Christian milieu wherein anthropomorphism and polytheism were abound in mainstream belief. As a youth, I rebelled against these innovations and preferred the standpoint of atheism. However, after discovering the Qur’aan, I became instantly captivated by the message of tawheed. Not just by the Oneness of Allaah (swt), but also the Uniqueness of Allaah (swt). I became a devout Muslim and fundamentalist. There was nothing wrong with strictly adhering to the “fundamentals” of my religion, I would boastfully remark. Eventually, a fundamental aspect of Islaam became problematic for me.

Here are my questions: How have you, as a practicing Muslim, dealt with the distinguishing characteristics of Allaah (swt) in light of Soorah al-Ikhlaas? Specifically, I’m referring to His Shin, His Eye, His Face, His Right and Left Hand, His Finger, His Foot, His Throne, etc. By far, these characteristics have been difficult to accept.


These are metaphorical.


 Secondly, how do you approach the apparently pernicious nature of Hellfire proclaimed in the Qur’aan? If this struggle pertains to your experience, how have you coped when you confronted the questionable subject matter in your religion?


It seems you misunderstand Hell completely.

in Islam, all the descriptions of hell being like boiling water or fire whatever are allegorical as the Quran points out. in actual fact, the reality of hell is a place without God. that's what Hell is in Islam. all these descriptions of torture, are what it will feel like to be WITHOUT God.,

it's justness from God...atheists don't want God...so in the afterlife God does as they want and removes His presence....

let me restate the situation, just to get away from all christian aspects:
God created us. in Islam, satan says we are all weaklings who don't really love Him. so God puts us on this earth to see if we love Him (for our sake not His. He's All-Knowing). then at the end of the earth, God will put all those who don't love Him and don't want Him in a place without Him. and then He will place all who want Him and Love Him in a place with Him. As soon as every atheist dies, they will be so sad that they will not have God's presence. But they will have failed the Test.


...I couldn’t believe in jinn or the story of Nuh.


The story of Noah is of a LOCAL flood in the Qur'an not a global flood in the Bible.
This makes it believable.


 It’s strange how just the disbelief in jinn makes one a kaafir.
[/qute]

The non-believing Jinn are simply devils. What's so unbelieveable about that?

[quote]
 Devastatingly, this hasn’t only affected my ‘ibaadah but my very status as a Muslim. In 2004, I became an apostate of Islaam. Have any practicing Muslims gone through this? How did you survive? To get a more detailed account of my conversion and experience, you’re welcome to read my testimony at http://khalas.wordpress.com titled Journey Through Islam.

One would think, as a former Muslim, that I’d casually assimilate well with ex-Muslims. However, my views do not homogenize with most apostates. Basically, perhaps eighty percent of those who have left the deen fall into either atheism or Christianity. One group of ex-Muslims that I most disagree with are the Christians, probably because they have an axe to grind with Islaam. Many of them are resentful of their experiences and become hatemongering polemics. They attack Islaam as if the deen has not an atom of wholesomeness or usefulness. Even I myself cannot fathom how a proper Muslim can suddenly abandon tawheed for man-worship. Speaking as an ethical atheist, I find atheism lacking a moral compass. The atheist ex-Muslim community is far from communal. It’s lonely. Like cats, they’re far too intelligent and independent to come together and would rather choose to roam.

Many of my friends – most of whom are Muslim – claim that my understanding and knowledge needs to be corrected. If I re-revert back to Islaam, I’d most likely become an extremist pushing my fellow brothers into the masjid and campaigning for the implementation of sharee’ah in my society. It’s so cliche, I know. But if you truly believe in something, why settle for mediocrity? I’d appreciate any advice, opinion, correction, or even admonishment. I’m expressing myself to you all in hopes that someone cares to offer constructive criticism.


I'd love to talk to you via MSN or YAHOO or email.

Could i please have one of them?

may God bless you.
IP IP Logged
abuzaid
Male 
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 November 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 163
Quote abuzaid Replybullet Posted: 16 April 2007 at 2:56am
Originally posted by Idris

in Islam, all the descriptions of hell being like boiling water or fire whatever are allegorical as the Quran points out. in actual fact, the reality of hell is a place without God. that's what Hell is in Islam. all these descriptions of torture, are what it will feel like to be WITHOUT God.,
Hell is real. Quran is very clear about Hell. Its not good idea to adjust understanding of hell to win Abdul Quddus.

Edited by abuzaid
IP IP Logged
shaheed
 
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 29 March 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 25
Quote shaheed Replybullet Posted: 16 April 2007 at 3:31am

Asslamu alaykum brother,

I respect your thoughts and your doubts too, in the next lines i will try to clear your confusion about some of ur doubts:

we are asked not to think a lot about Allah as having a hand .....etc like human beings, we should not think about material things about Him, cause we will not be able to know such things, all the same we are couraged to think about His almighty abilities and creatures He Has created like the Sky, Moon, Sun.....etc as a clue of His existence and almighty abilities.

as far as hell fire, Jinn, Noah: as Muslims are to submit totally to Allah, Accept Fate, Believe whatever comes from His side and we should believe that there are some things we can't perceive with our mind like Jinn, .........etc and we should believe too, that the disability of seeing or touching those things does not mean that they don't exist, we believe that there is electricity althugh we can't see or touch it., so when we believe in things inspite of our disability or perceiving with our normal minds, it means that we just accept these things as they come from God through the Prophet Mohamad. so, the real Muslim accept whatever comes from the prophet Mohamad (SAW) irespective of what that thing is.

IP IP Logged
Idris
 
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 12 April 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 9
Quote Idris Replybullet Posted: 16 April 2007 at 3:42am
Originally posted by abuzaid

Originally posted by Idris

in Islam, all the descriptions of hell being like boiling water or fire whatever are allegorical as the Quran points out. in actual fact, the reality of hell is a place without God. that's what Hell is in Islam. all these descriptions of torture, are what it will feel like to be WITHOUT God.,
Hell is real. Quran is very clear about Hell. Its not good idea to adjust understanding of hell to win Abdul Quddus.


I never said Hell didn't exist.

I said all the descriptions of Hell are allegorical, just like all the descriptions of Paradise are allegorical:

[2:25]: Give good news to those who believe and lead a righteous life that they will have gardens with flowing streams. When provided with a provision of fruits therein, they will say, "This is what was provided for us previously." Thus, they are given allegorical descriptions. They will have pure spouses therein, and they abide therein forever.

[47:15]: The allegory of Paradise that is promised for the righteous is this: it has rivers of unpolluted water, and rivers of fresh milk, and rivers of wine - delicious for the drinkers - and rivers of strained honey. They have all kinds of fruits therein, and forgiveness from their Lord. (Are they better) or those who abide forever in the hellfire, and drink hellish water that tears up their intestines?

47:15 clearly states that the allegory of Paradise is better than the allegory of Hell. This along with many other verses including 2:25 prove that the christian idea of hell being pure flame and fire is wrong. Hell's fire is metaphorical for the feeling of being without God's presence.

may God bless you.
IP IP Logged
abuzaid
Male 
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 November 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 163
Quote abuzaid Replybullet Posted: 16 April 2007 at 4:18am

According to Britannica..

Allegorical means.

1 : of, relating to, or having the characteristics of allegory
2 : having hidden spiritual meaning that transcends the literal sense of a sacred text

Means something different from what is said.

Further.

I check three translation fo Quran, Shakir, Picktha and Yusuf Ali. No one have used word allegorical in either of the ayah. Which transaltion you are referring to.

Quran clearly mentions about flames in hell we don't have any authority to change its meaning.

similitude is different from allegory

IP IP Logged
Page  of 4 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com