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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Challenging Questions about Islam Post Reply Post New Topic
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number41
 
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Quote number41 Replybullet Posted: 13 April 2007 at 4:41pm

The Quran is above all a guide to those who are prepared to keep their naturally pure state intact. Taqwa has been described as the single most important quality of a person mentioned in the Quran. Those who possess it live the natural way, the Quranic way.

The word Sunnah means method, example or path. It refers to what our beloved Prophet (pbuh) said, did and agreed to. You need to study the Sunnah, to see how beautiful an example our beloved Prophet (pbuh) set in all the full and varied aspects of his life. As you follow the course of his life, you cannot fail to see his complete trust and dependence on God, his truthfulness and sincerity, his constant devotion and struggle to make the word of God supreme, his strength and wisdom, his compassion and concern for the human condition.

 

The Prophet’s Sunnah, emphasizes the natural needs and dispositions of every human being. The Quran makes this clear, Surah  7. al-A`raf: The Elevated Places, (verse 157):

He will enjoin on them that which is right and forbid them that which is wrong. He will make lawful for them all good things and prohibit for them only the foul; and he will relieve them of their burden and the fetters that they used to wear. Then those who believe in him, and honour him, and help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him: they are the successful.

We need to know the Sunnah to learn how to perform the major duties like Salaat, Fasting and Hajj. To such acts of worship, there can be no addition or subtraction from the Sunnah. Moreover, without the Prophet’s detailed instructions and example, we would not be able to follow the Quran in all respects.

The Quran tells us that Muslims are those who use consultation to manage their affairs. The Sunnah shows us how this was and can be done. We need to know from the Sunnah not only what the Prophet did, but why he did it and how he did it.

You may form you own judgment on an issue only if there is no relevant text in the Quran and the Sunnah and only if your judgment does not go against the Quran and the Sunnah. When these conditions are met, you are expected to use you own judgment and initiative.



Edited by number41
'When one bright intellect meets another bright intellect, the light increases and the Path becomes clear' – Rumi
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QheQ
 
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Quote QheQ Replybullet Posted: 17 April 2007 at 8:34am
I Wrote:

Ok, let me admit and try to be in a more learning stance. Just please clarify why Hadith should be believed as authentic in the presence of the following Quranic assertions:

1. Indeed this is the saying of the prophet
2. (45:4-6): Then which 'hadith' after Allah and His verses do they believe?
3. (47:24): Then do they not ponder over the Quran...

Waiting for the answer.

Regards


I got this response:

The Quran is above all a guide to those who are prepared to keep their naturally pure state intact. Taqwa has been described as the single most important quality of a person mentioned in the Quran. Those who possess it live the natural way, the Quranic way.

The word Sunnah means method, example or path. It refers to what our beloved Prophet (pbuh) said, did and agreed to. You need to study the Sunnah, to see how beautiful an example our beloved Prophet (pbuh) set in all the full and varied aspects of his life. As you follow the course of his life, you cannot fail to see his complete trust and dependence on God, his truthfulness and sincerity, his constant devotion and struggle to make the word of God supreme, his strength and wisdom, his compassion and concern for the human condition.

The Prophet’s Sunnah, emphasizes the natural needs and dispositions of every human being. The Quran makes this clear, Surah 7. al-A`raf: The Elevated Places, (verse 157):

He will enjoin on them that which is right and forbid them that which is wrong. He will make lawful for them all good things and prohibit for them only the foul; and he will relieve them of their burden and the fetters that they used to wear. Then those who believe in him, and honour him, and help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him: they are the successful.

I do not disagree with this. My point is simply that according to Quran, Quran itself is the word of Prophet Muhammad, hence the source of sunnah in the sense you described is Quran. There is only one source of Sunnah, that is Quran.

You wrote:

We need to know the Sunnah to learn how to perform the major duties like Salaat, Fasting and Hajj. To such acts of worship, there can be no addition or subtraction from the Sunnah. Moreover, without the Prophet’s detailed instructions and example, we would not be able to follow the Quran in all respects.

If the Quran is describing the Salaah, the Hajj and other obligations in a different way than Hadith does, why follow the Hadith. For instance, Quran says: WA DHAKARASMA RABBIHI FASUALLA (And recalled the attributes of his rabb, hence offered the Salaah) so the salaah is clearly only the rememberence of His characteristics (names)

The Quran tells us that Muslims are those who use consultation to manage their affairs. The Sunnah shows us how this was and can be done. We need to know from the Sunnah not only what the Prophet did, but why he did it and how he did it.

If you ask yourself what consultation means, you will find the most sincere answer from within yourself, I hope.

You may form you own judgment on an issue only if there is no relevant text in the Quran and the Sunnah and only if your judgment does not go against the Quran and the Sunnah. When these conditions are met, you are expected to use you own judgment and initiative.

I would like to see such an example that Quran DOES NOT cover clearly. And if there is even a single such instant, then the Quran's claim of being "Mufassil" (detailed - 12:111) is wrong.

Edited by QheQ
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Andalus
 
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Quote Andalus Replybullet Posted: 18 April 2007 at 5:20pm

Originally posted by QheQ

Ok, let me admit and try to be in a more learning stance. Just please clarify why Hadith should be believed as authentic in the presence of the following Quranic assertions:

1. Indeed this is the saying of the prophet

This is vague. What are you trying to prove exactly? Please provide an argument to support your conclusion which deal with this vague statement you are putting forth.

 


2. (45:4-6): Then which 'hadith' after Allah and His verses do they believe?

What about it? You want me to provide you with something but you have not provided even a basic argument as to what problem you have with this verse or even what you are trying to conclude.

 


3. (47:24): Then do they not ponder over the Quran...

Waiting for the answer.

Regards

I am waiting for your question.

 

 

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superme
 
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Quote superme Replybullet Posted: 18 April 2007 at 6:43pm

Originally posted by QheQ

I Wrote:

Ok, let me admit and try to be in a more learning stance. Just please clarify why Hadith should be believed as authentic in the presence of the following Quranic assertions:

1. Indeed this is the saying of the prophet

I think you quoted the above coloured statement incorrectly. Down here you repeated again with emphasis.

Originally posted by

My point is simply that according to Quran, Quran itself is the word of Prophet Muhammad, hence the source of sunnah in the sense you described is Quran. There is only one source of Sunnah, that is Quran.
 

I think the coloured word is Rosul  instead of Prophet. Please correct me if I am wrong since I don't know what is the source you are refering, sound like coming from chapter 67. Plus I am very certain there is no Muhammad mentioned in it.

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BMZ
 
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Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 19 April 2007 at 5:11am

Originally posted by QheQ

This is where Quran says that it is the "Qaul-e-Rasool" (69:40)

My comments in blue fonts:

If you wish to understand it correctly, read from V38-52 and you will understand easily. You seem to be an Urdu speaking person and that is why you have used Qaul-e-Rasool, which means, The Saying of the Rasool (Prophet), which would fall under the subject of Hadith and it's collections.

However, in the verses 40-52, the message is: "This is the word of a Rasool, not the word of a poet. how little do you believe, and not the word of a soothsayer, how little do you reflect? It is a revelation from the Lord of the worlds."

Qur'aan, then goes to add v44-52, saying "If he had said any words of his own, We would have grabbed him and cut off his life-vein and none of you could have saved him. This is a reminder to all who fear the Lord and We know those of you who lie and this will make you regret. This is the absolute truth. So, glorify your Lord."

Explanatory meanings: "This is" refers to the Qur'aan which is the inspired/revealed word of God to Muhammad and Muhammad was reciting that to people. There were poets aplenty, in almost every corner and street of the Meccan valley, who were reciting poetry in praise of the gods and the powerful men of Mecca.

When Muhammad came with blazing poetry and the prose of Qur'aan, the pagans and their poets were shocked. Common man took Muhammad as a poet or a soothsayer. The verses were revealed to let people know that the dazzling poetry and prose were not his own words and they were the words from God sent to Muhammad as Qur'aan. In other words, the key message was: This is the Rasool of God talking about the revelations of God. It is not saying that Qur'an is the saying of Muhammad of his own.

Also, what does it exactly mean tha Quran is Laa Raib?

Why do Muslims, in response to questionning of the grammatical errors in Quran say: "Its eloquence is so High that we cannot reach it?"

Most sincerely, do you think it is the right answer?

No, it is not the right answer. There are people, who do not know a word of English, French or Spanish and yet they can understand Qur'aan perfectly well. It is a different matter when it comes to translation. Some languages just do not have the equivalent words available. An example is Ghairat (In Urdu) which cannot be found at all in English. Do you see the difference. Just to re-do the translation of above was a "nightmare" (in the good sense) for me.  We are supposed to study, reflect and understand it.


Regarding Laa Raib or Laa Raiba, it simply means No Doubt. An Arab scholar or a good scholar of Qur'aan will not read it as "No doubt".

Let me show you by way of examples:

First, the verse as it is: Zaa-li-kal-kitaabo, laa raib." Let us translate now and see how many ways can we do it.

1. This is the Book, there is no doubt in it.

2. This Book has no doubt in it.

3. No doubt, this is the Book.

4. Without any doubt, this is the Book.

5. Of course this is the Book!

What is the correct meaning of this verse?

There is no doubt that this is the Book from Allah,

or simply

Of course this is the Book (from Allah)

BMZ



Edited by bmzsp
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minuteman
 
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Quote minuteman Replybullet Posted: 19 April 2007 at 5:40am

 

  Yes, very correct, BMZSP, the meaning is as suggested with a slight change from myself.

'(This is) That book, in which there is no doubt."

But the last part (Fee he) sometimes can be connected to the remaining (or the following words too).

(It is ) That book in which there is no doubt. It is a guidance for the God fearing people.

(It is) That book, no doubt. There is guidance for the God fearing people.

Forgive me if there is any mistake. The meaning of Dhalika is "That". It points to a distant or higher level object, compared to hadha (This).

 

If any one is bad some one must suffer
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BMZ
 
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Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 19 April 2007 at 6:53am
Originally posted by minuteman

  Yes, very correct, BMZSP, the meaning is as suggested with a slight change from myself.

'(This is) That book, in which there is no doubt."

But the last part (Fee he) sometimes can be connected to the remaining (or the following words too).

(It is ) That book in which there is no doubt. It is a guidance for the God fearing people.

(It is) That book, no doubt. There is guidance for the God fearing people.

Forgive me if there is any mistake. The meaning of Dhalika is "That". It points to a distant or higher level object, compared to hadha (This).

You are right, minuteman. I had the poster's thoughts in my mind, so I did not go into finer details.

Thanks indeed. Salaams

BMZ 

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QheQ
 
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Quote QheQ Replybullet Posted: 19 April 2007 at 7:17am
Quite sincerely, being unable to access the net at home, i have difficulty posting replies to so many people. I humbly request any one, preferably the most knowledgeable one to continue the dialog, say Mr/Ms Andalus or someone else.

Will touch back soon
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