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73v3n
 
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Quote 73v3n Replybullet Topic: advice on relationship
    Posted: 01 April 2007 at 4:46pm

salaam,

I need some advice if anyone can help. I am in relationship with a non muslim. We both have been looking into islam and tried to live islamically as much as we can there hasnt been no pressure on my part on my partner she wears a hijab most the time she has been reading abt islam sincere and genuine her intentions. Recently she has said to me tht everything that is haram appeals to her and she want to live tht lifestyle what can i say what can i do she didnt do shahada as we both agreed converting wont happen overnite. I`m trying to stay on the right path and i dont feel tht i need to go against my beleifs i`m not a perfect advert for islam but im trying and enjoying learning. today we looked through a photo album the back of the photo album her old life style and the front the new lifestyle both a million miles apart.

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crasss
 
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Quote crasss Replybullet Posted: 02 April 2007 at 3:29am
Living like a Muslim is actually not hard at all, including for your non-muslim relation. What matters, is that certain things are forbidden. Everything else is allowed. Nobody can prevent you from doing what God has permitted. And that is basically: everything that He has not forbidden.

The worst thing, that is completely forbidden, is associating partners, to God (shirk). The Quran especially and specifically forbids to associate family members to God. There are a few more rules, but they are absolutely not unreasonable. If your partner is not doing anything that God forbids, I don't see where the problem is.

You must, however, do a ceremony, in which you hand her a gift (mahr), in the presence of her father or his substitute, prior to engaging lawfully in sexual relations.

Note that this has nothing to do with writing paperwork or marriage certificates. I don't think anybody endorses the idea that you would be compelled to recognize wordly rulers to have authority over your marriage. You cannot reasonably serve two masters. Anyway, such wordly rulers may try to change the terms of your marriage, and thereby invalidate the ceremony and its meaning. This should be avoided.

Your non-muslim relation can take advantage of the ceremony to testify that she will not recognize any other God than the Creator and Sustainer of the Universe, as the Quran clearly insists and demands. The traditional phrasing is of course the Shahada, but that amounts to exactly the same. It is basically a pledge never to shirk. I don't see what is so hard in pledging this.

If you have engaged in sexual relations prior to the ceremony, you have indeed sinned. Sins can only be offset by a sufficient number of good deeds in repentance of the sin. In such case, I recommend that you consult the imam who will conduct the ceremony, what good deeds you both need to perform in order to break even with the consequences of this sin.

I wish you all the happiness in your endeavours.

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73v3n
 
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Quote 73v3n Replybullet Posted: 02 April 2007 at 2:48pm

Originally posted by crasss

Living like a Muslim is actually not hard at all, including for your non-muslim relation. What matters, is that certain things are forbidden. Everything else is allowed. Nobody can prevent you from doing what God has permitted. And that is basically: everything that He has not forbidden.

There are a few more rules, but they are absolutely not unreasonable. If your partner is not doing anything that God forbids, I don't see where the problem is.

thank you, My partner is not doing anything that god forbids but she says that what god forbids is appealing to her and she wants that life style is she a lost cause if that is a correct term and am i sinful because she is thinking along those lines.

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Quote crasss Replybullet Posted: 02 April 2007 at 8:19pm
Originally posted by 73v3n

My partner is not doing anything that god forbids but she says that what god forbids is appealing to her

If sin were not attractive, nobody would be committing any. Therefore, it is to some extent understandable that she might be attracted to what God forbids.
Originally posted by 73v3n

and she wants that life style

What is her problem? Substance abuse? Unlawfully conceding sexual favours to men? Bad environment with all of such problems continuously tempting her?
Originally posted by 73v3n

is she a lost cause

Not if she really, really wants to get away from all that, inshallah.

She might, in fact, need some authority to push her away from these things. Normally, parents and family are naturally appointed to do that. In a traditional setting, they would exert very serious pressure on her.

If you live in a western setting, however, don't be surprised to see the natural arrangement to be failing. You should understand that you, as a husband, will not have such authority either. What's more, exercizing that kind of authority might get you into serious trouble.

Therefore, if you realize that she cannot do it on her own faith and willpower alone, I recommend for your own sake that you abandon the idea.

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73v3n
 
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Quote 73v3n Replybullet Posted: 03 April 2007 at 2:08am

i would say my partner comes from disruptive background at an early age she was put into foster home and was moved around alot ,bullied at school her real mother was victim of domestic abuse and she was seperated from her brothers and sisters.

When reunited with her mum and new step dad she was then a victim of abuse from her step dad. the area and environment she comes from had no islam in it her step dad is a racist and his veiws on muslims and foreigners is extreme.

the relationship with her step dad is non existant and her mum is similar but they have some contact recently she has made contact with her new dad who has been diagnosed with cancer and is an alcoholic.

she also has health problems something to do with hormones and she was self harming a little but that has stopped. on the flipside she is the nicest person i know and has many qualities to know or look at u would never know on the surface she is so troubled.

our paths crossed how only allah knows and i took her out of that environment and showed something stable and solid islam a way of life foundation and guidance the best as i could as i`m not a perfect muslim myself and have much to learn inshala.

Islamicaly nothing was forced she has always had the choice. islamicaly theres not much around here and thers not alot of people she can to talk to or learn more islam also i think outside interference is not helping. she said everytime she thinks abt doin haram she feel guilty and cant do it she said now and again she would like go clubbing have a drink hav some fun etc etc.

 i think she is lonely and doesnt have freinds who can support like converts or muslim sisters who can help her.

what i can do is very limited as our relationship is seen as taboo i have been warned that this kind of problems will arise and they are I`m are careing person and i would go out of my way to help anyone i need some kind of guidance as i have been a rock and now i`m crumbleing.

 

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crasss
 
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Quote crasss Replybullet Posted: 03 April 2007 at 2:57am
Originally posted by 73v3n

...disruptive background at an early age ...foster home...moved around ... bullied...domestic abuse ...victim of abuse ...relationship non existant...new dad alcoholic...health problems...self harming...she is so troubled

Look, nobody is beyond repair. What would be needed for her, is:(1) her faith and her will to do it (2) clean environment (3) authority.

The problem is (2) and (3). You cannot produce either with a magical wand, out of the blue.
Originally posted by 73v3n

she would like go clubbing have a drink hav some fun etc etc.

Clubbing and drinking (and what else?) often turns out to be a deadly trap for girls, even from a stable background.

For example. First the drugs are for free and given to you on a friendly basis, but after a while you badly need them, and then you do st**id things to get the money to buy them, and then you usually die prematurely, in the middle of one huge mess. This scenario is getting increasingly common.

By the way, alcohol is also considered haram. For good reasons. Girls who club and drink very often regret the next morning what else they've just done.
Originally posted by 73v3n

i think she is lonely and doesnt have freinds who can support like converts or muslim sisters who can help her.

The ones who are protective of these sisters, may very well insist that they stay away from the girl. She has no good friends, but the problem is that she might herself not be such a good friend either.
Originally posted by 73v3n

what i can do is very limited as our relationship is seen as taboo i have been warned that this kind of problems will arise

The girl's problems cannot be solved in the environment in which she is now. Her problems are bound to reappear sooner or later. She would have to move to an environment in which clubbing, drinking, other related substance abuse, and other temptations are inaccessible to her. In addition, someone's authority would be needed to supplement occasional, but dangerous failings in the good intentions she must have, at the basis.

Obviously, as you clearly mentioned, her parents cannot do this. A husband, and his hopefully more intact family structure, would not be allowed to do this. No one else won't do this either.

These problems are indeed beyond your capabilities to solve. I strongly recommend that you heed the warnings.

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Hayfa
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Quote Hayfa Replybullet Posted: 03 April 2007 at 4:00am

Asalam Akaikum,

I do not think anyone is a lost cause... and really that if between her and Allah.

Does she have a translation of the Quran? There is no masjid nearby?

When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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73v3n
 
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Quote 73v3n Replybullet Posted: 03 April 2007 at 5:06am

w/salaam

she has a translation quran and there is a masjid but the problems or issues possibly local community politics makes it difficult to acess help and advice.

 i was thinkin may be i could ask a moderator permission to swop my partners details with a sister who can possibly help if it is allowed.

crasss`s opinion and advice has been very helpful i have to say.

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