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 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Politics : World Politics
Message Icon Topic: It’s gay rights laws that are intolerant,(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
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mariyah
 
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bullet Posted: 22 April 2007 at 11:39pm
Originally posted by crasss

Originally posted by Patty

Sawtul posted this sentence:

"The western governments are trying to make the immoral moral and the moral immoral, and the simple reason why is that most Western politicians are Satanists."

Really?  ...  How can you possibly paint an entire culture as Satanists?


Sawtul is right. The entire western culture is Satanist, and they do exactly what the Satanists advocate: to seek freedom where there really isn't any.

As parents, as fathers, as communities in the West, the government  prevents you from keeping your children away from seeking freedom where there really isn't any: premarital sex, homosexuality, substance abuse, et cetera. The family unit is now dead in the West.

When Bush said about the Muslim fundamentalists "They hate us because they hate our freedom", he was right. There is no freedom to be found by violating the laws of the One God. And now Bush is trying to enforce that kind of freedom across the world. Bush is simply an instrument of Satan.

Do you realize that there are over 8 million muslims in the US and the number is growing?

When you slander the "west" and you slander The muslims that live here. I resent your calling me  and my family  Satanists. I do not agree with many of the policies and actions of this government, but they are not forcing me to practice elements of Islam that are culturally induced and not necessarily in the Shariah as they do in some "Islamic countries". There is nothing in the Qur'an or Ahadith that states that I can't drive a car! Many muslims move here because in some ways this government follows some of the elements of true Islam. Read the last sermon of the prophet and you will see. I am curious to see if you possess some of the elements of humility.

BTW, are you a former poster that was banned about a year ago for being a bit harsh and attacking others? I think the mods should check your log on and Isp addy....Interesting...

"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.
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mariyah
 
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bullet Posted: 22 April 2007 at 11:50pm
Originally posted by Sawtul Khilafah

Originally posted by ops154

You being a religious person should not judge anyone. Isn't that Gods job? Being from somewhere where you actually can see what good a set of parents can do for a child helps me accept it little more than I guess. It is sad that you would rather a child have no one to love them before letting a gay raise a child. Are you that worried about your sexuality to be bothered by it that much? Myself, I know what I like so they don't scare me like so many others in this world. Guess what----it is not contagious.

Do you think it's right for Rapists to adopt children ? If not, why ? Are you so worried your sexuality to be bothered by it that much?

Or, why is it illegal for people to be naked in public or why do toilets have doors ??

The western governments are trying to make the immoral moral and the moral immoral, and the simple reason why is that most Western politicians are Satanists.

They are trying to make these things the "norm" and one of the ways to do this is to destroy families (which they have already pretty much succeeded in) and allowing homosexuals to adopt children.

Thenthe next generation are going to be even more immoral than this generation, and then it will be "ok" to pass even more immoral laws, and so on. They have been doing this for the past few decades thats why people are becoming more and more preverse and immoral.

Sawtul, your need to get an education before you make such comments, Rapist are on a sexual offenders list and even getting near children in the wrong manner will land an ex offender life imprisonment. Look what happened to the crazies who abducted Elizabeth Smart. They are doing life, period.

You sound like the Salman that was banned about a year ago, am I right? He made obtuse statements without citing his sources.

Salman, is that you?

"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.
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crasss
 
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2007 at 12:59am
Originally posted by Israfil

Where is your proof?

Who do we trust to have the answer to that question, since no conclusive proof is available ... the scriptures or the western propaganda?
Originally posted by Israfil

So now you equate homosexual behavior to drug addiction, give me a break.

Both groups claim that they respond to an irrestible urge. And both groups are a public health disaster.
Originally posted by Israfil

children should be taught that there is a diversity within sexual orientation in humans. Some humans like the same sex....The fact of the matter is, children should be taught to reserve opinion of other people simply based on their sexual orientation

We do not believe that. We teach the scriptures to the children. And the scriptures say that homosexuality is wrong. So, that is what we teach.
Originally posted by Israfil

they should resevre opinion on others based upon their race.

That is indeed what the scriptures say. Nobody is better or worse because of their race, but because of their piety.

It all revolves around the same question: Are the scriptures wrong or are the politicians wrong? We invariably believe the scriptures and not the politicians.

You can r
epeat your point of view as many times as you want, in as many different forms as you want, it won't help. You will never convince us that homosexuality is ok. Nobody can change that point of view in Islam, because the scriptures cannot be changed.

I simply do not believe statements that contradict the scriptures. No matter how much politicians try and try and try, I will not believe them.
Originally posted by Israfil

children should be taught to reserve opinion of other people simply based on their sexual orientation

You teach your children what you believe, and we teach our children what we believe. Any attempt to teach our children what you believe and what we do not believe, will inevitably lead to conflict.

I v
ery well know that your side will not back off. It is so obvious that your side wants to enforce their beliefs unto our children.

As you are probably well aware of, we do not fear this conflict, because we believe the scriptures, which makes us believe that the One God will give us victory. Such is our belief.

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Israfil
 
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2007 at 7:39am

So you are like Rami now? everything you've stated in the latter portion of your opinion was "We" as if I'm not Muslim myself. this type of distinction of course is one of the reasons why we are not advance culturally, spiritually and intellectually. Crass you said:

"We do not believe that. We teach the scriptures to the children. And the scriptures say that homosexuality is wrong. So, that is what we teach."

There is a different in saying something is wrong and treating someone in discriminatory fashion. Similarly for Christians it is like saying love the sinner but hate the sin. Even if you were to teach your kids that homosexuality is wrong shouldn't keep you from also teaching your children to teach homosexuals with respect as they deserve as human beings. Saying things like "we believe in scriptures therefore God will give us victory" is self-glorifying at its best and ignorance at its worse. obviously your inability to actually critically think about the situation tells me that its time for me to end my discussion with you.

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Duende
 
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2007 at 8:07am
Crass: (adj) st**id; gross [from the Latin ‘crassus thick, dense, gross]
This is the Collins English Dictionary definition, and I don’t know why
nobody else has picked up on this. Unlike many members (Al-kafir
excepted) this forum member has been strikingly candid in his/her choice
of screen name.

Crass, I am sure you know absolutely NO homosexuals, since none of
them would allow you to make such sweeping declarations of ignorance
as: “By the way, few homosexuals are completely homosexual.” Only
someone intimate with homosexuals could know whether this is true or
not, you are here opening the door to a discussion about bisexuals, since
these people could definitely be accused of being ‘not completely
homosexual’.

Crass said: “By legalizing homosexual activity, these people are
encouraged to engage in homosexuality, while otherwise they would not.”
What people? You mean bisexuals? Or the sexually confused? In around
2000 years of the history of the world’s great monotheistic religions the
consistent banning of homosexual acts has done nothing to lessen their
appearance. No amount of banning, not even on God’s orders, has wiped
out homosexual practices. Your profound fundamentalist interpretation
of your religion is something you should keep to yourself and not impose
on the rest of us, and definitely not something you should use as a
weapon to insult Christians and Christianity and those who believe in the
Bible which you are ordered in the Koran to respect.

The legalising of drink has not turned entire populations into alcoholics.
The legalisation of homosexuality has not turned entire populations into
homosexuals. Legalising smoking has not resulted in entire populations
of nicotine addicts. On the contrary, wherever these activities are banned,
they become highly desireable and a difficult and persistent underground
culture develops.There is a huge difference between drug addiction and
sexual orientation.

Crass wrote: “Homosexuality cannot be hereditary. If a homosexual
person's ancestors were homosexual, he would not be there. His very
presence proves that his ancestors were all heterosexual. Sexual activity
is a behaviour, and all behaviours are learned.” You have little
understanding of social behaviour and sexuality, which is one reason why
homosexuality frightens you so much (that, and the fact that you have
never known a homosexual person.) There have been many studies which
reflect that sexual behaviour is not a ‘behaviour’, since this can be
changed at will, but is an instinct, which can be fought, but rarely
changed. You yourself have said that very few homosexuals are
completely homosexual, which means quite a few are capable of normal
sexual relationships, which means quite a few are capable of having
children. Studies have also shown the children of homosexuals do not
show different attitudes towards the opposite sex than children brought
up in heterosexual families.

Human rights encompass all humans, regardless of their sexual
orientation, race or religion. You disagree with human rights for all;
rather they should apply only to a select few, and definitely exclude gays,
lesbians, bisexuals, gay fathers, lesbian mothers, bisexual fathers, gay
poets, writers, cineasts, musicians, and a long etc., of very beautiful
human beings. You are not the first to think this way, others before you
have included famous historical figures such as Churchill and Hitler.


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crasss
 
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2007 at 9:10am
Originally posted by Duende

from the Latin ‘crassus thick, dense, gross...

Marcus Licinius Crassus (ca. 115 BC – 53 BC) was a Roman general and politician who generalled Sulla's decisive victory at Colline gate, suppressed the slave revolt led by Spartacus and entered into a secret pact, known as the First Triumvirate, with Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus and Gaius Julius Caesar.

I don't know why the Romans called the general "Crassus". I doubt it was an insult. It was just his family name.
Originally posted by Duende

Crass, I am sure you know absolutely NO homosexuals

I remember only one. We were actually on friendly terms, and to tell you the truth, I never told him that I believe homosexuality is wrong. What would have been the point of doing that anyway? The most striking thing about him, was his promiscuity. He had lots of one night stands, apparently, as he said. Promiscuity seems to be the norm in homosexual environments:

Bell and Weinberg, in their classic study of male and female homosexuality, found that 43 percent of white male homosexuals had sex with 500 or more partners, with 28 percent having one thousand or more sex partners.

Originally posted by Duende

those who believe in the Bible which you are ordered in the Koran to respect.

The Quran does not call the bible authentic.

That's not possible, because, the Quran says that Jesus never said that he was the son of God (which is a blasphemy in both Judaism and Islam), for which the Jewish scriptures claim the Sanhedrin, the Jewish supreme court, executed Jesus.

Anyway, the bible is simply the collection of forgeries doctored by emperor Constantine. He ordered the destruction of all other, non "official" Christian scriptures, that is, the more truthful ones.

Conclusion: The bible is not respected in Islam. It is considered to be mostly untrue.

Originally posted by Duende

You disagree with human rights for all;

We disagree on the definition of human rights: Universal Islamic Declaration of Human Rights.
Originally posted by Duende

You are not the first to think this way, others before you have included famous historical figures such as Churchill and Hitler.

Churchill and Hitler are the products of Christianity and the atheism degenerated out of Christianity.

Especially Hitler, is a very good example of how Christian racism, based on worshipping pictures of a white, European man, loosely related somehow to the Jewish prophet Jesus, and calling that man "God", degenerated in constructing a (pseudo-) science, eugenics, in order to justify the extermination of alledgedly inferior races, in this  particular case, the Jews. In other cases, it was the Aboriginals in Australia, or the Native Americans, who had to be "removed" on "scientific" grounds.

Islam is absolutely not related to the Christian tradition of systematized racism a la Hitler.




Edited by crasss
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Israfil
 
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2007 at 10:57am
So promiscuity is exclusive to homosexuals? Great logic hmmm, no what do we make of the countless strippers, prostitutes (males included) and others who engage in heterosexcual sex for both money and pleasure?
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Duende
 
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bullet Posted: 23 April 2007 at 2:37pm
Crass wrote: "Marcus Licinius Crassus (ca. 115 BC – 53 BC) was a Roman
general and politician who generalled Sulla's decisive victory at Colline
gate, suppressed the slave revolt led by Spartacus and entered into a
secret pact, known as the First Triumvirate, with Gnaeus Pompeius
Magnus and Gaius Julius Caesar."

Do you think any of us really care about Marcus Crassus? You are too
ignorant to even notice the difference between crass and Crassus. The
dictionary definition of crass (which you match, by the way,) is the first
definition of this word, the information on Crassus (who knows, he was
probably as crass as you, but in any case was a conspirator) is secondary.

"The Quran does not call the bible authentic." -I didn't say it did, I said it
tells Moslems to respect those who follow its teachings i.e Christianity

'We disagree on the definition of human rights' oh do WE now? What's
this, a sign of multiple personality disorder?

Until you resolve your personal conflict over your previous existence as a
Christian, you are consistently breaking forum guidelines here and WE
shall all report you every time you do
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