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Message Icon Topic: It’s gay rights laws that are intolerant,(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
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crasss
 
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bullet Posted: 20 April 2007 at 8:03pm
Originally posted by Patty

Sawtul posted this sentence:

"The western governments are trying to make the immoral moral and the moral immoral, and the simple reason why is that most Western politicians are Satanists."

Really?  ...  How can you possibly paint an entire culture as Satanists?


Sawtul is right. The entire western culture is Satanist, and they do exactly what the Satanists advocate: to seek freedom where there really isn't any.

As parents, as fathers, as communities in the West, the government  prevents you from keeping your children away from seeking freedom where there really isn't any: premarital sex, homosexuality, substance abuse, et cetera. The family unit is now dead in the West.

When Bush said about the Muslim fundamentalists "They hate us because they hate our freedom", he was right. There is no freedom to be found by violating the laws of the One God. And now Bush is trying to enforce that kind of freedom across the world. Bush is simply an instrument of Satan.



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Sawtul Khilafah
 
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bullet Posted: 21 April 2007 at 2:17pm
Originally posted by Patty

Sawtul posted this sentence:

"The western governments are trying to make the immoral moral and the moral immoral, and the simple reason why is that most Western politicians are Satanists."

Really?  Where did you get your information.  Could you please explain how you reached this decision?  How can you possibly paint an entire culture as Satanists?  I would expect you to post your source(s) on this subject.  Do you have any source???

 

Sure, I have lots of sources. Here's one:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-82095917705734983&a mp;q=bohemian+grove&hl=en

 It's a documentary by a Christian Journalist.

And by the way, I didnt say "culture", I said Government (although the Government does influence the culture through politics and mainstream media).

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Israfil
 
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bullet Posted: 22 April 2007 at 4:13pm

Majority of the responders (not all) are backward thinkers. I'm still trying to figure out how the sexual orientation of an individual effects someone who is not physiologically attached this this person. Meaning, how is it that what one does sexually or profess a sexual orientation different than us shouldn't have the same rights as we do? I remember several decades ago in the United States the states made it illegal for a "colored" person to marry anyone who was white. I remember centuries before that these "negroes" were considered 3/4 of a person.

Now it is 2007 and now we are arguing against "gay rights" as intolerable because it makes other goe against their own conscience? to me that is the most backward thinking of anyone of us. Although we may not agree with the sexual orientation of a gay man or woman does not give us the right to deny them what they are due. I can expect this mentality in an ultra-conservative Muslim country but in the United States I think we are slowly making progress. As Hayfa mention it is these minorities that would defend the Muslims who have been discriminated against and trust me, I personally know some who have marched along side Muslims during the aftermath of 9/11. Most Christian organiszations at this time were scrambling to figure out why Islam is so barbaric when these same people were marching alongside us.

Many of you have a hard time justifying discrimination bny simply saying it goes against the religious conscious. I'm sure Jesus in his time met gay men and women (or those secretly gay) and what do you think he would do?

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Patty
 
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bullet Posted: 22 April 2007 at 5:26pm
Originally posted by Israfil

Majority of the responders (not all) are backward thinkers. I'm still trying to figure out how the sexual orientation of an individual effects someone who is not physiologically attached this this person. Meaning, how is it that what one does sexually or profess a sexual orientation different than us shouldn't have the same rights as we do? I remember several decades ago in the United States the states made it illegal for a "colored" person to marry anyone who was white. I remember centuries before that these "negroes" were considered 3/4 of a person.

Now it is 2007 and now we are arguing against "gay rights" as intolerable because it makes other goe against their own conscience? to me that is the most backward thinking of anyone of us. Although we may not agree with the sexual orientation of a gay man or woman does not give us the right to deny them what they are due. I can expect this mentality in an ultra-conservative Muslim country but in the United States I think we are slowly making progress. As Hayfa mention it is these minorities that would defend the Muslims who have been discriminated against and trust me, I personally know some who have marched along side Muslims during the aftermath of 9/11. Most Christian organiszations at this time were scrambling to figure out why Islam is so barbaric when these same people were marching alongside us.

Many of you have a hard time justifying discrimination bny simply saying it goes against the religious conscious. I'm sure Jesus in his time met gay men and women (or those secretly gay) and what do you think he would do?

You are so right, Israfil.  I believe Jesus loves everyone of us.  Someday I think professionals in the medical field will prove that this difference in sexual orientation has a beginning even before birth.  CT scans have already shown conclusively that certain areas of the brain are different in homosexual men vs. heterosexual men. 

I realize the Bible is not believed by most muslims; however, there are verses which state the sin is the homosexual act, but never the person.  I will always remember what my daughter said to me once.  She said, "Mom, do you think anyone would deliberately choose to be homosexual or lesbian, knowing the discrimination, even possible murder, that they may have to face?"  I don't think anyone sets out to "become" homosexual or lesbian.  I do believe they are born that way.

What would Jesus do?  HE would wrap His loving arms around this person who needs Him even more than most.  Oh yes, we know what Jesus would do.  But perhaps the question should be, what will YOU do?

God's Peace.

Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.
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crasss
 
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bullet Posted: 22 April 2007 at 5:49pm
Originally posted by Israfil

Meaning, how is it that what one does sexually or profess a sexual orientation different than us shouldn't have the same rights as we do?

Homosexual have the same rights as we do, because nobody prevents them from engaging in heterosexual activity. We don't have more rights than them, because we are equally well be banned from homosexual activity.

By the way, few homosexuals are completely homosexual. They may be attracted to homosexuality, but many could reasonably well limit themselves to heterosexuality too. By legalizing homosexual activity, these people are encouraged to engage in homosexuality, while otherwise they would not.

What's more, homosexuality is a public health catastrophe, just like drug abuse. Why don't you advocate freedom for drug abusers?
Originally posted by Israfil

I remember several decades ago in the United States the states made it illegal for a "colored" person to marry anyone who was white.

Race is not a behaviour. Nobody can change the colour of their skin.
Originally posted by Israfil

Although we may not agree with the sexual orientation of a gay man or woman does not give us the right to deny them what they are due.

Nobody knows what anybody else does in their bedrooms. They have always had that right. Do you really believe that schools should teach that homosexuality is ok? There are no rights to be found in violating the laws of the One God.
Originally posted by Israfil

I can expect this mentality in an ultra-conservative Muslim country but in the United States I think we are slowly making progress.

There is no progress to be made by violating the laws of the One God.
Originally posted by Israfil

I'm sure Jesus in his time met gay men and women (or those secretly gay) and what do you think he would do?

Jesus did not have the authority to set us free from the laws of the One God. Nobody has that authority.

Look, I cannot accept the gift of freedom from the laws of the One God. It is a poisonous gift. It frees me from the One God, but it also enslaves me to Satan. Americans refuse to see that there is no such freedom. They seek freedom where they will only find Satan.

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crasss
 
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bullet Posted: 22 April 2007 at 6:21pm
Originally posted by Patty

I believe Jesus loves everyone of us.

The messenger Jesus is dead now, peace be upon him. He does not love anybody any longer.
Originally posted by Patty

CT scans have already shown conclusively that certain areas of the brain are different in homosexual men vs. heterosexual men.

CT scans cannot free anybody from the laws of the One God.
Originally posted by Patty

I realize the Bible is not believed by most muslims;

Why would anybody believe emperor Constantine's forgeries?
Originally posted by Patty

I don't think anyone sets out to "become" homosexual or lesbian.  I do believe they are born that way.

Homosexuality cannot be hereditary. If a homosexual person's ancestors were homosexual, he would not be there. His very presence proves that his ancestors were all heterosexual. Sexual activity is a behaviour, and all behaviours are learned.

If it were really impossible for people to obey a particular rule, the One God would not have instituted that rule. You are asking people to believe you or your politicians instead of the scriptures. We won't believe you. We will believe the scriptures.
Originally posted by Patty

What would Jesus do?

That depends on who he really was. If he was who the Quran says he was, he would tell us to obey the laws of the One God. If he was who the Jewish and Christian scriptures say he was, he would would probably produce yet a new disgusting heresy.
Originally posted by Patty

But perhaps the question should be, what will YOU do?

Nobody should advocate breaking the laws of the One God.
Originally posted by Patty

God's Peace.

You won't have God's peace if you break his laws.

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crasss
 
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bullet Posted: 22 April 2007 at 6:39pm
Originally posted by Patty

What would Jesus do?

Jesus cannot make new laws. Your politicians cannot make new laws. Nobody can make new laws,

BECAUSE THE ONE GOD HAS MADE ALL THE LAWS ALREADY.

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Israfil
 
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bullet Posted: 22 April 2007 at 10:58pm

Crass allow me to first thank you for dissecting what I've said and so, allow me to commence in a reductio ad absurdum dialogue form:

Crass: "Homosexual have the same rights as we do, because nobody prevents them from engaging in heterosexual activity. We don't have more rights than them, because we are equally well be banned from homosexual activity."

Israfil: The above statement is nonsensical and a sign of confusion. If you are knowledgable of American laws you'd be aware that only four states allow homosexuals to marry: Alaska (which isn't really a state) Vermont and Hawaii (which isn't a state either) as well as Massachusetts. California has also created a legislation that allowed domestic partnerships. Now if you factor in the 5 states that does not amount to the other 45 states which allows heterosexual couples to marry. To me this isn't equality in its absolute form. Also, it would be ridiculous to state that "we are equally banned from homosexual practice" to me is a ridiculous comment because it assumes that homsexuality is an exclusive practice.

Homosexuality, like heterosexuality is a choice that we all make and even though our internal/external environment has an influence ultimately, we have the choice to either conform or choose what to do.

Crass: "By the way, few homosexuals are completely homosexual. They may be attracted to homosexuality, but many could reasonably well limit themselves to heterosexuality too. By legalizing homosexual activity, these people are encouraged to engage in homosexuality, while otherwise they would not."

Israfil: Where is your proof?

Crass: "What's more, homosexuality is a public health catastrophe, just like drug abuse. Why don't you advocate freedom for drug abusers?"

Israfil: Another nonsensical statement. So now you equate homosexual behavior to drug addiction, give me a break.

Crass: "Race is not a behaviour. Nobody can change the colour of their skin."

Israfil: True. Nobody can change their natural skin pigmentation, but at the same time most homosexuals make that same statement about their sexual orientation. Many have tried to explain the "phenonmenon" of why some people are attracted to the same sex but cannot quite exactly figure out why this is so. The fact of the matter is whether physiologically related or not does not matter because when people have a feeling of attraction to someone how can you expect them to change this feeling if they believe it to be a natual occurence in their mind? 

Crass:"Nobody knows what anybody else does in their bedrooms. They have always had that right. Do you really believe that schools should teach that homosexuality is ok? There are no rights to be found in violating the laws of the One God."

Israfil: This is pure opinion and you have every "right" to think that way but the fact of the matter is homsexuality exist even within some primates who scientist believe are closer in relation to humans. homosexuality exist in other animal groups as well so there is no such thing as an unnatural occurence in the world which does not effect us. I don't think children should be taught that homosexuality is ok because that would infer an opinion, rather, children should be taught that there is a diversity within sexual orientation in humans. Some humans like the same sex. Some humans like younger humans i.e. small children, babies (which I would call mental instability and pedophilia) some humans are attracted to animals. The fact of the matter is, children should be taught to reserve opinion of other people simply based on their sexual orientation similarly they should resevre opinion on others based upon their race.

Crass: "Jesus did not have the authority to set us free from the laws of the One God. Nobody has that authority.

Look, I cannot accept the gift of freedom from the laws of the One God. It is a poisonous gift. It frees me from the One God, but it also enslaves me to Satan. Americans refuse to see that there is no such freedom. They seek freedom where they will only find Satan."

Israfil:




 

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