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Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: SHIA SUNNI, MALEKI, SHAFI, HANAFI, WAHABI(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
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Abu Mujahid
 
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bullet Posted: 08 June 2007 at 12:55pm

Minuteman,

Please check out your facts before you post. 

Islam need true muslims
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minuteman
 
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bullet Posted: 08 June 2007 at 6:10pm

 

 It is difficult to check out now. Could you correct me or point out my mistakes. It will be good for every one here. Thanks. Please give proper comments alongside my words. Be explicit. No hard feelings. You are free to present the correct picture. It is possible that my info may be wrong.

If any one is bad some one must suffer
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fatima
 
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bullet Posted: 09 June 2007 at 9:54am

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaykum

What is it with you lot, can't you digest your food without throwing insults at each other? A person who makes fun of other people is obviously looking at the other person from somewhere high above. And I am sure i dont need to tell such knowledgeable people about 'kibr' and what our Prophet sallallahu alayhi wassalam said about that.

There is no need to carry on and on about 'wahabism' or anything else for that matter. The person has long died and for sake of your Lord, let a muslim rest in peace regardless of what happened during his time. Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala is Judge of everything.

I have seen people of extremes both sides and i have also seen and known people who are such good muslims that you wish to have that level of faith regardless of ......... or ...........

Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala is going to judge you for what you did in your life time so is it not better to worry about that then some incident of past.

Saying that if according to you, brother andalus needs to learn about real islam than maybe so do you brother Abu Mujahid. What is it that Sayyidina Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wassalam said about a muslim? not hurting his fellow muslims with his words or otherwise. Since your arrival here have you done anything but insulting other members and questioning your fellow bretheren. Islam teaches us that if you brother says something than believe that thats the truth he knows but for some reason from start you are trying to prove us all to be hypocrites.

If you are so happy and proud on your beliefs that it makes you make fun of rest of us then to you is your religion. We are humble before our Lord, asking Him for His guidance and praying that He guides us on straight path.

wassalam



Edited by fatima
Say: (O Muhammad) If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL
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Abu Mujahid
 
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bullet Posted: 09 June 2007 at 1:06pm

Fatima Moderator!

Assalamu alaikum

You have difficult to live up with truth. Your support for Andulus shows how much you care about truth, brotherhood, Islam or revival of khilafa. Despite he filled in his post, hate, lies and deception he got stand oviation from liberals.  Your attack on me lacks direction let alone have stand in Islam.  I found this medium by accident long time ago. I preferred to be silent reader. Then I decided to join and contribute in proper way. I found amazing how liberals want to reshape islam in the context of American culture. Moreover, tear a part anyone who challenge them. You saw it and properly enjoyed our exchanges. When they insult me you never raise a finger. They call me all kind of un-islamic names. But when we expose your friends like this fake convert you cry foul.

Sister, I don't see in this medium islamic brotherhood nor revival of Islamic khilate. Moreover, I don't know how long I will survive or allowed to stay in this medium. Once I red a book called Bitter harvest (Hasad al-Mur) for Salah Shadi. The guy marvelled what went wrong of that Islamic movement. He was fair and talk from knowledge. But this IC moderator who lied about Sh. M. Abdulwahab lacks qualification let alone Islamic class. That is why I brushed off to debate with him seriously. You jump on me to remind me what all of you lacks: NO kibir/Brotherhood.......

 

Sister, either you let people debate in fairness or ban people like me who strive hard to tell the true version of Islam. Your political correctness is not the problem.....-it can be corrected easily- but your ardent effort to lie and belittle anyone who threaten your human premises.

 

 

Abu Mujahid

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Andalus
 
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bullet Posted: 09 June 2007 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by Abu Mujahid

But this IC moderator who lied about Sh. M. Abdulwahab lacks qualification let alone Islamic class. That is why I brushed off to debate with him seriously. You jump on me to remind me what all of you lacks: NO kibir/Brotherhood.......

Your love for Imam Annajdi is based upon your ignorance. If I have lied, and if I lack so much Islamic "class work", then why not show the forum? So far, you blow off a lot of hot air, throw around insults, and little in the way of "debate". I believe you are incapable of debating your way out of a paper sack.

Debate your love for your misguided leader, show everyone my lies.

Your group is based upon a lie, and when the oil money runs out, your ignorant fitnah will be buried and forgotten about in the dark areas of a library.

I think you are all talk, and Brother Whisper has probably given the best advice on dealing with you: Ignore you and do not qualify your juvenile posts with any serious reply.

Sister, either you let people debate in fairness or ban people like me who strive hard to tell the true version of Islam. Your political correctness is not the problem.....-it can be corrected easily- but your ardent effort to lie and belittle anyone who threaten your human premises.

Funny. I have not found a single post that shows you providing a single rational argument. What are you worried about the freedom of debate for? Do not put the cart before th ox, first go and learn how to debate then worry about the freedom to debate.



Edited by Andalus
A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/
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Andalus
 
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bullet Posted: 09 June 2007 at 1:53pm
Originally posted by Abu Mujahid

 

Andulus Moderator!!!

When I red your rambling/funny post, I said like what Imam Malik said in similar situation......"Let Abu Mujahid stretch his legs"

I really don't want to be rude or say similar to one who said, "My donkey is more fiqih than him" but you are rare king of your kind. Enjoy it. No wonder why IC -adopting affirmative action- choose you to be moderator.

PS: Please learn real Islam from Sunni Sheikh in your State.

 

Abu Mujahid

You are right about this forum having an affirmative action program. We are required to maintain so many "village idiots" per year, this usually works until the villages begin to miss them and they recall them. Has your village called yet? 

 



Edited by Andalus
A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/
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minuteman
 
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bullet Posted: 09 June 2007 at 11:15pm

 

 It is better to calm down. We should write about the real topic or what we know of the good and bad things. It is better not to make it personal  and better not say a single word about th lack of knowledge of the friends.

 I had asked Abu Mujahid to guide me about my posts. We can have a start from there now. How about it?? I am waiting?? And, Abu Mujahid should be free to support his Imam with his correct information and present that here. No harm.

Abu Mujahid has mentioned something good about Khilafat or Khalifah. Does he intend to establish Khilafat?? Or what does he want to say about the Khilafat now??? Please post with peace. Wassalam.

If any one is bad some one must suffer
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Abu Mujahid
 
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bullet Posted: 10 June 2007 at 12:13am
Originally posted by minuteman

>I give an example now: These Ahle Hadith (Wahhabis) taught that the prophet went to his mothers grave on the way to Madinah. He wanted to pray there but he was not allowed to do that because his mother was a mushrikah<. 

I was surprised. The mother of the prophet (Aminah) may be anything in her days. There was no Islam then. Nobody preached to her the real deen. She did not refuse to obey any command of Allah because there was no command conveyed to her. How could any one pass an order on her Kufr??

 

Minuteman,.

Assalamu Alaikum.

For your information read this fatwa regarding this topic. You will see this is not Wahabi Stuff. Its in pure correct sunnah. We need to be careful about this and learn Islam before denying or quesitoning correct sunnah.


 

 


 

 

 

 



Question: How come the father of the Prophet (peace be upon him) is in Hell, even though he never heard the Message? For the same reason, why was the Prophet (peace be upon him) not allowed to pray for his mother's forgiveness? I also heard that the parents of the Prophet (peace be upon him) were brought back to life so that they could believe in him. Is this true?

Answered by Sheikh Muhammad al-Qanns

Regarding the parents of the Prophet (peace be upon him) we say: It is well known that Allah will not punish someone except after the call to Islam reaches him. This would include the people who lived before the advent of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). It also applies to the children of the unbelievers, people who are insane, and those who are born deaf and blind. All such people will be tested on the Day of Judgment.

There are some hadth related about the parents of the Prophet (peace be upon him). Ab Hurayrah relates that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: I had sought Allah permission to allow me to beseech forgiveness for my mother, but He did not allow me to do so, and I sought Him permission to allow me to visit her grave and he allowed me to do so. [Sahh Muslim (976)]

Anas relates that a man asked the Prophet (peace be upon him): O Messenger of Allah, where is my father?

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: In the Fire. When the man left, the Prophet (peace be upon him) called to him and said: My father and your father are in the Fire. [Sahh Muslim (203)]

It is related by way of Ibn Mas`d that the two sons of Mulaykah came to the Prophet (peace be upon him) and said: Our mother used to show respect to her husband and affection to her children and they mentioned something about the guest but she buried alive an infant daughter in the times of ignorance.

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: Your mother is in the Fire.

They turned away with expressions of pain clearly visible in their faces. The Prophet (peace be upon him) called for them. They returned with expressions of pleasure on their faces, in hope that something had changed.

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: My mother is with your mother. [Musnad Ahmad (3598)]

These hadth are used as evidence by some scholars that the parents of the Prophet (peace be upon him) had been acquainted with the message of truth. The Arabs to whom the Prophet (peace be upon him) was sent were familiar with the religion of Abraham (peace be upon him), and that is why there were among them some true believers who did not commit polytheism, such as Zayd b. `Amr and Qiss b. S`idah.

Al-Nawaw in his commentary on hadth 203 of Sahh Muslim speaks about the hadth of Anas, saying [Commentary on Sahh Muslim (3/79)]:
This shows that those whoever dies upon unbelief will be in the Fire and will not get any benefit on account of his relatives. It also shows that those (people in Arabia) who had died during the era in which the Arabs used to worship idols are also among the denizens of the Fire. This is not a case of holding them to account before they received the Message, because they had already received the Message of of Abraham and other Prophets (peace be upon them all).

The Prophets saying: My father and your father are in the Fire is an act of good will, to help ease the pain by sharing in the affliction.
Imam al-Nawaw also comments on the hadth in which the Prophet (peace be upon him) was not permitted to beseech forgiveness for his mother. He writes [Commentary on Sahh Muslim (7/45)]:
This shows us that it is permissible to visit polytheists while they are alive and to visit their graves after they die. It follows from the permissibility of visiting them after death that it is permissible to do so when they are alive. Allah says: Yet bear them company in this life in a good manner. [Srah Luqmn: 15] It also shows that it is prohibited to beseech forgiveness for the unbelievers.
It is possible that these hadth intend only that people who die on other than monotheism and faith must be treated as disbelievers in this life; so it will not be allowed for anyone to pray for them or beseech forgiveness for them. This is because they appear to us as unbelievers. However, their true fate rests with Allah.

And Allah knows best.

It is related in some weak and false hadth that Allah brought the Prophets parents back to life so that they could believe in him. Then they were made to die again. A good number of scholars have declared these hadth to be fabricated. Refer to: Tafsr Ibn Kathr (3/462), al-Hw fi al-Fatw by al-Suyt (2/352) and al-Rawd (2/185).

Ibn Taymiyah writes [Majm` al-Fatwa (4/324)]:
There is no disagreement among those acquainted with the field that this is among the most obvious of fabricated lies, as has been clearly stated by the scholars. It is not found in any of the accepted hadth works, not in any Sahh or Sunan or Musnad, or any other recognized hadth work.

It has never even been mentioned by the authors of the books of campaign and the books of Qurn commentary, even though they narrate weak hadth together with authentic ones, since recognition of what is false is not hard to ascertain.

Had it been true, great attention and care would have been paid to its transmission, since contains two miraculous acts; the first being that of bringing the dead back to life and the second being that of believing after death.

The narration of such an event would take priority over anything else. It follows that since no trustworthy narrators ever mentioned it, it must be declared as false.

Moreover, it goes against the Qurn, the authentic Sunnah, and consensus.

Allah says: Of no effect is the repentance of those who continue to do evil, until death faces one of them, and he says: Now have I repented indeed; nor of those who die rejecting faith. [Srah al-Nis: 18]

Allah shows us that there is no accepted repentance for the one who died as an unbeliever.

A man asked the Prophet (peace be upon him): O Messenger of Allah, where is my father?

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: In the Fire. When the man left, the Prophet (peace be upon him) called to him and said: My father and your father are in the Fire. [Sahh Muslim (203)]

Then there is the hadth about preventing the Prophet (peace be upon him) from beseeching forgiveness. If beseeching their forgiveness had been something permissible in its own right, he would not have been forbidden from doing so. Deeds are according to how the person concludes his life, so whoever dies on faith, Allah will forgives him and consequently beseeching his forgiveness will not be prohibited.

As for the Prophet (peace be upon him) visiting his mothers grave, it was on his way to al-Hujn near Mecca. As for his father, he was buried in Syria, so how could he have been brought to life for him?

Had the parents of the Prophet (peace be upon him) been believers, they would be more renowned than Hamzah and al-`Abbs, the uncles of the Prophet (peace be upon him).

And Allah knows best.

 

Source: Islamtoday.com



Edited by Andalus
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