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Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: Are Women Allowed to Drive ??? Post Reply Post New Topic
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USA-NIQAABI
 
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Quote USA-NIQAABI Replybullet Posted: 14 March 2007 at 7:59am

Assalamu'Alaikum,

I'm cutting and pasting a Q/A that is kind of lengthy but is very interesting with regards to this thread it is of most interest in the Answer portion #3-#4.

I wanted to post this not to add division but to support an Important issue that is inter-related with women driving. Islam is a complete and perfect way of life. I've read in many threads some phrases like "You just have to make Islam fit your modern Life"....the truth is it is our responsibility to make our life fit Islam...Allah(swt) has planned every moment in time and has a perfect plan for all of us and it is up to us to strive and work hard to Please and serve Allah(Swt).

As I had posted earlier, the issue of can women drive seems black and white but really isn't.

In Islam as muslimahs we are held to a certain code of conduct and we carry great responsibilities with regard to what we've been instructed to do in relation to what our job with in our family is.

Yes, if you are living in a country that allows women to drive you can obtain your license. But the important thing to remember is how you use that and what constitutes great urgency for you to leave your homes and why it is important to stay in your homes from an Islamic view.

Also, I read some valid concerns about who will retreive the children from school, do the shopping, or go to work etc.

I would like to respond to that by incouraging everyone to search online and go to any Islamic site and ask the question of who's responsiblity it is to handle these matters as for providing safety and care for the family shopping etc. It is the husbands responsibility if you are married or a Mahram such as a father or brother etc if you are not yet married. It is not Haram for a muslimah wife or daughter to help but it is also not halal for a husband or mahram to not live up to his responsibilities.

 I think the important question that should be asked is Why are we as muslimahs are being required to live an Islamic lifestyle and advised that it is best to stay in our homes and only leave for great urgency and to leave certain responsibilities up to our husbands/mahrams and other responsibilites up to us.

I also wanted to address the issue of it's not easy to live an Islamic way of life in a non-Islamic country. We have very strict instructions on why we should be living or not living in a non-muslim country and what we should be doing if we are being prohibited from living an Islamic lifestyle in a non-muslim country.

This life that we live is very short...and the dunya will never follow us to the grave....If you ask Allah(swt) to bless you and guide you and make easy for you a straight path to journey on he will.

Islam Question and Answer
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  Question No 91401
Calamities faced by Muslims in western countries
 
  Question:

I am sure you are well aware of the spread of the blessed Islamic awakening, especially among Muslim girls. As we are living in a non-Muslim (European) country we experience difficulty in applying the rulings of Islam. Every now and then there are problems, such as mocking the Qur’aan or stickers appearing in public places showing a picture of a Muslim girl with the words “Do you want to cover your head? We think you do not.” And finally there is the decree issued by the government banning the wearing of niqaab (face veil) altogether and imposing a fine of 150 Euros on the one who wears it. Recently the situation has become very difficult for the sisters, because the matter has gone beyond a financial penalty and now you see some racist behaviour on the part of the police. That takes the form of mocking and poking fun at them, and sometimes they force them to take off the niqab in front of men. You can imagine the embarrassment faced by the girl who wears niqaab, when she is surrounded by the people and the police as if she has committed a crime. There is no power and no strength except with Allaah. As for the sisters’ response to this decree, some of them have got in touch with Shaykhs hoping to get a fatwa that will allow them to uncover their faces, and they have in fact found Shaykhs who will issue fatwas saying that because there is a difference of opinion among the scholars and because it is a case of necessity, there is nothing wrong with taking it off. The others are still confined to their homes, waiting for the mercy of the Lord of the Worlds. 
I was born and have spent all my life in this land, so please allow me to speak frankly and say that living in a kaafir land involves hidden things that no one knows but the one who lives there. 
By Allaah, besides Whom there is no other god, the Muslims in kaafir lands are living in a state of humiliation and loss that no one knows except Allaah alone. How many families have been destroyed, how many children know nothing of the faith but its name. It is so bad that Muslim girls have been sold into slavery and taken to eastern Europe to be employed as prostitutes – there is no power and no strength except with Allaah. One day I listened to the head of the gastric diseases department – who is of Arab origin – say that there are four thousand Muslim girls of various ages working as prostitutes according to official records, and this is in just one city! Unfortunately even those who claim to be religiously committed find themselves in the lion’s claws, because their wealth is mixed with riba, their children do not speak Arabic, Jumu’ah prayer is offered as Zuhr in the factories, and so on. I am not saying this on the basis of hearsay, rather we see it with our own eyes, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. By Allaah, our hearts are breaking because of what we hear and see, and things have only reached such a level because we went against the laws of our Lord and agreed to live with them for the sake of a few dollars, except those on whom Allaah has mercy among those who have an excuse to stay. On the other hand there are a number of families who made the effort to move to Muslim countries and now they are living a life of ease, and Allaah is the best of providers. 
May Allaah reward you for the day when you taught us to be optimistic and not pessimistic, but this is the bitter reality from which there is no escape. But to be fair, praise be to Allaah many are turning to Islam, especially new Muslims (converts), and we praise Allaah for His blessings and bounty. 
What we would like from you, may Allaah reward you, is the following: 
1- Advice to the Muslim girls to adhere to their hijab and not to depend on weak fatwas that open the door to evil.
2- Encouragement to the youth to migrate and not focus on worldly matters, because many of them – or most of them – are the reason why their wives and children stay and are exposed to these calamities. Many of the youth have not migrated yet on the basis that they want to save enough money to open a business in the country to which they will migrate. How much should they save and when should they think that they have saved enough?
3- Advice to the sisters who go out of the house a great deal for no essential reason, especially in these difficult circumstances.
4- Advice to the brothers who tell their wives to uncover their faces on the basis that it is a case of necessity. What is the ruling on obeying the husband in this matter?.

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

Firstly:  

Undoubtedly the problems faced by Muslims, men and women, in kaafir countries are many; their situation in those countries is heartbreaking and brings tears to the eyes. 

We have all heard and read about the hardships they are facing, especially the women. We have seen the falseness of these countries which claim to be civilized and free, but they impose hardship on the Muslims in their jobs and in their homes, and on women with regard to their hijab and their work. They allow complete freedom for same-sex marriage and sexual perversions, and freedom to abuse Islam and Muslims, but they impose restrictions on Muslims with regard to their practices and rituals.  

Everyone who is able to leave such countries must not fail to do so, before there comes a day when he will regret missed opportunities and will have no control over his family’s affairs or his own affairs or be able to leave, after having lost his children to that permissive society which is devoid of all morals and virtues, where he lives his life working and striving, then he gives his children to the street and the church, and loses out in this world and in the Hereafter. 

Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:  

Settling in a kaafir country poses a great danger to the Muslim’s religious commitment, morals, behaviour and etiquette. We and others have seen how many of those who settled there went astray and came back different from when they went; they have come back as evildoers, and some have come back having apostatized from their religion and disbelieving in it and in all other religions – we seek refuge with Allaah – denying it completely and mocking the religion and its people, past and present. Hence we must take measures to guard against that and stipulate conditions which will prevent people from following this path which leads to doom and destruction. 

How can the believer be content to live in the land of the kuffaar where the rituals of kufr are proclaimed openly and rule belongs to someone other than Allaah and His Messenger, seeing that with his own eyes, hearing that with his own ears and approving of it, and even starting to feel that he belongs there and living there with his wife and children, and feeling as comfortable there as he does in the Muslim lands, even though he and his wife and children are in such great danger and their religious commitment and morals are in such peril? End quote. 

For the full quotation from the Shaykh (may Allaah have mercy on him) see the answer to question no. 27211, in which there is a detailed discussion of the issue of settling in kaafir countries. 

It is not permissible for a Muslim woman to shed her chastity and hijab in the face of these temptations. The devils among mankind and jinn are forever trying to tempt women to join the ranks of the misguided. Whoever follows them will find this world attractive in his eyes and he will be distracted from thinking of the grave, the Hereafter and the meeting with Allaah, may He be exalted. 

Unfortunately some of the muftis on satellite channels have contributed to women taking off their hijab on the grounds of study or work. There is nothing good in study or work that incurs the wrath and anger of the Lord, may He be blessed and exalted. Whatever worldly benefits can a woman get with her certification or salary, knowing that it is at the expense of reward in the Hereafter and the pleasure of Allaah? No one would do this except one to whom evil has been made to look attractive so he thinks it is good. 

It is not permissible for a Muslim woman to uncover her face, let alone her hair, even on the basis that it is for study or work. That which is with Allaah is better and more lasting. Every Muslim should hasten to leave that darkness, and the scholars should help Muslim families to adhere to their religion and obey their Lord instead of helping them to accumulate wealth and worship dirhams and dollars. 

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: 

It is not permissible for you or for any other women to uncover in the kaafir lands, just as it is not permissible in the Muslim lands. Rather it is obligatory to observe hijab in front of non-mahram men whether they are Muslims or kaafirs, and indeed it is more essential in the case of kaafirs, because they have no faith to keep them from doing that which Allaah has forbidden. 

It is not permissible for you or anyone else to obey parents or anyone else in doing that which Allaah and His Messenger have forbidden. Allaah says in His Book (interpretation of the meaning): 

“And when you ask (his wives) for anything you want, ask them from behind a screen, that is purer for your hearts and for their hearts”

[al-Ahzaab 33:53] 

In this verse Allaah explains that for women to observe hijab before non-mahram men is purer for the hearts of all. And He says (interpretation of the meaning): 

“And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer palms of hands or one eye or dress like veil, gloves, headcover, apron), and to draw their veils all over Juyoobihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands…”

[al-Noor 24:31]

Fataawa ‘Ulama’ al-Balad al-Haraam (p. 529). 

Thirdly: 

Husbands should help their wives to remain chaste, covered and modest. It is not permissible for them to tell them to take off their hijab for the sake of worldly matters such as study and work. If they have no choice and it is not possible and it is not easy for them to keep their women in full hijab, then it is permissible for them to uncover the face due to this necessity, such as in airports and passports, but they should make sure that the one who examines them is a woman. 

As for those who want their womenfolk to take the hijab off altogether or unnecessarily, it is not permissible for them to do that. They should be proud of belonging to this religion and they should be proud of their wives and daughters being covered, especially when they see how the kaafir women dress, baring all and going to the extreme in wearing all kinds of fashions and colours.  

It is not permissible for a woman to obey her husband if he tells her to go against the rulings on covering and hijab. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There is no obedience if it involves disobedience towards Allaah; obedience is only in that which is right and proper.” 

Narrated by al-Bukhaari (4085) and Muslim (1840). 

Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked: 

There is a man who is married and has children, and his wife wants to wear hijab but he is opposed to that. What advice can you give him, may Allaah bless you? 

He replied: 

We advise him to fear Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted, and to praise Allaah for having given him such a wife who wants to dress as Allaah has commanded, in clothing that will protect her from temptation. Allaah has commanded His believing slaves to protect themselves and their families from the Fire, as He says (interpretation of the meaning): 

“O you who believe! Ward off yourselves and your families against a Fire (Hell) whose fuel is men and stones, over which are (appointed) angels stern (and) severe, who disobey not, (from executing) the Commands they receive from Allaah, but do that which they are commanded”

[al-Tahreem 66:6] 

And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) stated that men are responsible for their families, as he said: “The man is the shepherd of his family and is responsible for his flock.” So how can it be appropriate for this man to try to force his wife not to wear hijab and to dress in a haraam manner which will be a cause of temptation for her and others? Let him fear Allaah with regard to himself and let him fear Allaah with regard to his family, and let him praise Allaah for blessing him and giving him this righteous wife. 

As for his wife, it is not permissible for her to obey him by disobeying Allaah, for there is no obedience to any created being if it involves disobedience towards the Creator.  

Fataawa al-Mar’ah al-Muslimah (1/442, 443). 

See also the answer to question no. 45672, in which there is a detailed discussion of the ruling on countries forcing Muslim women to take off hijab. 

Fourthly: 

With regard to a woman going out of her house, our sisters should note that the basic principle with regard to women is that they are to be honoured, and part of her being honoured is that her husband and children are to serve her. The husband is enjoined to spend on her. The idea of her staying in the home is only so that she can do a great work which no group of men could do, which is raising the children, serving her husband and house. These are great deeds. Hence she should not go out except in the case of necessity or urgent need, especially if she is in a kaafir country or a land that is not safe. 

Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: 

Undoubtedly for a woman to remain in her home is better and is farther removed from fitnah (temptation) and evil. We are all aware of what happens when women go out in the marketplaces, and they cause temptation and are themselves tempted. If it is possible for her not to go out, this is what is required. If she must go out, then she should go out as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Let them go out looking scruffy,” i.e., not adorned or wearing perfume. But they should not go out except in the case of need. … What I think with regard to this issue is that women should stay at home in all cases, and not go out except in cases of necessity, and if they go out in cases of necessity, they should not wear perfume or any adornment. 

With regard to taking a mahram with her, undoubtedly that is better, but it is not essential so long as the matter does not involve travel. But unfortunately you see some people bringing their families to the tailor or shopkeeper, then the man stays in the car and the woman is the one who goes and speaks to the men, and fitnah may affect his family as a result. The man should be a real man, protective towards his family, and not do such things. If it is essential, then he should go with her and stand with her when she speaks to the man or the man speaks to her, or he should speak to his wife and then speak to the man. 

Liqaa’aat al-baab il-Maftooh (117/question no. 2). 

See also the answer to questions no. 6742 and 9937

Fifthly: 

For the one who wants sincere advice, the Islamic ruling is that one should not stay in kaafir countries. See the answers to questions no. 70256 and 4237, which contain a lot of good advice. 

And Allaah is the Source of strength.
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Quote rami Replybullet Posted: 14 March 2007 at 9:57am
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

Brother Rami , your post has addressed only travelling and not commuting within the city.

my above post states a women can travel a distance of 48 miles without a mahram, if you mean going back and forth in the same city for some relevant reason not joy riding etc [] then as i understand it
[and i could be wrong] that 48 miles can be taken as a radius.

i am not a shaykh sister but but i am able to percieve one area the fatwah fails to address, i bring it up becouse our scholars do not shy away from looking at a matter from all perspectives.

The original ahadith mention a women can travel a distance of 3 days riding without a mahram which modern ulama equate to 48 miles distance i perceive that this falls short of what is intended in the ahadith becouse 3 days journey means the women is sleeping on her own in the wilderness for two nights while she is traveling. A greater trust is placed in the women in that respect than a simple 48 mile journey.  i dont mean to imply that women can travel overseas becouse due to modern transport a 3 day journey can take you across the world but that in cases such as western countries where it is extremely safe for a women to travel from city to neighbouring city  the matter should be looked at more closely than to simply equate  3 days traveling to 48 miles which is purely a matter of ijtihad and not based upon primary or secondary sources.

right or wrong as i may be i have yet to see a fatwah that clearly addresses this aspect of the matter.

Sister USA-NIQAABI the ahadith are clear a women can travel a minimum distance of 48 miles without a mahram the means by which she gets there is not relevant.

A women also does not need a mahram to go to the local shoping center becouse she is in an open area with many people, it is only haram for a women to be in a closed room with a man.

For the one who wants sincere advice, the Islamic ruling is that one should not stay in kaafir countries.

this is just plain ridiculous coming form a people who allow billboards with channel and kfc to be placed up within sighting distance of our prophets grave. It is also safer for a women to travel in a Kafiir country nowadays than it is to travel in an islamic country!



Edited by rami
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Quote Hayfa Replybullet Posted: 14 March 2007 at 10:08am

I guess it is all what you call a need.

And it still does not answer, where does she go for a lawyer,if she is accused of a crime, or needs a lawyer for divorce, who should be her doctor and nurse, who shall be her aerobics instructor for her health, who wil lbe her arvery teacher (we are told to get exercise and be healthy after all), who will be the accountant for her business, who will be her physical therapist if she has an injury?  (As i do with my back injury and need physical therapy, either the physical therapist or I need to leave their homes.

I am not intending to make a big del about this, but they must answer, who will provide these services to women? These services are not performed really at home, so then it is up to each woman to define her need.

I also think that in an ideal world, all marriages would be good (proper husbands and such), all families could survive on one income, etc. The reality is  that Allah knows what each woman faces and what her intentions are. 

Sad to say, theat in many parts of the Moslem world, due to this focus many services are not provided for women. There are women languishing in jails with no one to serve them, there are women who cannot get the right medical care, as there are few women trained to service them. There are not enough teachers for all the childen.

I can sit at home or I can be productive. Idleness is the worst. That is half the problem with women, they sit around and gossip, chat etc. The house is clean the kids are at school. Now what? Maybe if they volunteered at the school there would be 10 fewer illiterate children in the world. 

I recently saw a show on Al jeezera and it said how 40% of the children in the Arab world are illiterate.  Maybe if women were more productive and not in their homes, or shopping or whiddling away time gossiping there would be fewer problems.  Ofcourse not all women do, but alot do.

Everyone seems quite interested in colntrolling women instead of solving really big issues.  sad

 

 

When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Quote rami Replybullet Posted: 14 March 2007 at 10:22am
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

Everyone seems quite interested in colntrolling women instead of solving really big issues.  sad

i think this area needs to be looked at more carefully by our ulamma becouse certainly many of islam great women where muhaditheen who used to leacture men. Imam shafii's great teacher in Egypt was a women, while other scholarly women where also business women.

Allah would not allow our prophet [sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam] to marry khadijah a rich business women if her primary activity in islam was something haram or was later to become haram.

having said that we prove matters with the quran, sunnah, qiyas or ijtihad and not simply say becouse we dont like it we should just ignore what we dont like. Allah is all aware of the smallest whisper in your heart even if you dont notice it.


Edited by rami
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Quote USA-NIQAABI Replybullet Posted: 14 March 2007 at 12:00pm

Assalamu'Alaikum Br Rami,

I wanted to say before I get started with my post that I respect your opinion. Also it is important not to make Islam an easy step for us but one that takes much discipline and dedication each and every day to make our actions and deeds pleasing to Allah(swt).

I would say you might be mistaken, I spend at least 3 or more months a year in a muslim country and I think it is much safer to travel there than here. It is simply unheard of to leave the house without mahram or a large group of women from your family to go into the village market or city. Unless you are going to take lunch to the men in your family working in the fields and than it it still in a group of at least 4 women.

However, I do agree that commercialism is everywhere but there is no comparison to living in a muslim country vs. a non-muslim country clearly it is best to live in a muslim country.

Also, it is the husbands responsibility to do these things and take care of such matters. And every amount of her husbands money that is spent should be accounted for to the husband no matter how slight. There is nothing wrong with leaving the house as long as the husband grants his permission for unknown places to the family or none if she is going to a known place during normal daily hours. There is nothing wrong with a muslimah helping out with these duties but it is the husbands primary responsibility to do so and if the muslimah is not married it is the mahram that is caring for her. If she is doing such things she should be able to easily classify it as with some sort of urgency or she need not venture out into the city.

Also, there is nothing wrong with women being educated in a female only school and working in a female only environment but whatever she earns is never to be contributed to the household expenses. It is her money to do with as she sees fit...There are many halal positions for sr's to hold as long as they serve only sr's. I see a female dentist that only has female employees and only sees women and children.

Khadija did establish her own trading business but she had trustworthy people mostly family members conductiong her business abroad...and I don't know of a time that she did go on a trading caravan but had she most certainly she would of had mahram with her because of how women were viewed in society at that time before Islam. Also, even though Islam was not yet established family life and preservation was at the top of their priority although wars among clans were legendary they did have a certain daily code of conduct to abide by.

Lastly again, I would have to say that it is the womens responsibility to stay in her house there is nothing to support her not being there. But there is plenty to instruct how she should conduct herself if she leaves her home and how far and how long she may go and who she may see or do business with before she must take the appropriate permissions.

The Imam at our masjid seems more conservative than you but just as fair in his assessments of similiar situations. You might know our Imam he is well traveled and often attends yearly conferences. Here is our masjids web location: tawheedcenter.org

Assalamu'Alaikum Sr.Hayfa, I have a lot of respect for you as you have mentioned in other threads you are in a foreign country with no mahram teaching. But as a teacher wouldn't you have to agree a good foundation for learning begins at home remember what Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) has instructed for us about raising our children and how to go about the learning process and at what stage of life we do so and what we do for the first 7 years, than the next 7 years and than the final 7 years of growth and development.

MasSalaama

 

 

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Quote rami Replybullet Posted: 14 March 2007 at 12:25pm
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

wa alaikum assalm sister

you have more experience than me sister. It is upsetting for me to read that a person believes a women should never leave her house, my point was to mainly say women are allowed to participate in worldly matters and it is the responsibility of men to facilitate this.

It is simply unheard of to leave the house without mahram or a large group of women from your family.

In the fatwa i posted the shaykh presented the opinions of three madhhabs stating a women can travel 1 to 3 days journey without a mahram, which is completely opposed to the idea that she never leave the house without a mahram. Maybe where you travel this is for safety rather than anything else or they may simply adhere to the salafi rulings on the matter, allahu allam.

Quickly browsing the site sister, i am not familiar with any names. If you are happy with his assesment then by all means i am not trying to apose anyone i rarely present my own personnel opinion, nor am i qualified to be comparred to an imam in my manner of assesment. There are differences of opinion on the matter as you can even see in my prior post but since ahadith exist which specifically state a women can travel without a mahram for 1-3 days journey i can not accept the fatwah you have posted since it does not mention these ahadith.  There is a simple principle in islamic law that requires a scholar to gather all pieces of evidence then make a ruling based on that, i think you would agree this is common sense.



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Quote USA-NIQAABI Replybullet Posted: 14 March 2007 at 2:47pm

Assalamu'Alaikum Br Rami,

I never intended to say indirectly a women should never leave her house.

What I was trying to say and believe posted was that the best place for a women is in her home and that certain requirments must be met for her to leave her home such as having a valid reason or sense of urgency.

I'm sure you are familiar with the requirments for a married women taking permission from her husband to go to unknown areas to visit or conduct business. The husband is responsible for his wifes safety and security if he doesn't even know where she is or if she is safe during her daily travels when needed he can not provide her safety and security.

Also as far as going to the village market or city where we live overseas it is according to Islamic law and women need to travel in groups of more than 4. I believe that this is because of the Ayat in the Quran that explains if men or women are accused of acts that require witnesses'.

Anywhere you travel in this world there is always evil and even if it may never come into your life the precautions should still be taken to safegaurd against these types of incidents.

Going back to women driving alone day or night if she breaks down what's she going to do? If she's in the USA she'll probably call auto club to tow the car...I've never seen a female tow truck driver in my 20+ years of driving. She would have to be alone in the tow truck with the male driver. Just because a women is alone in a car she is not safe even walking to and from the car you see every night on the news horrible crimes against women just going to the market or their purses or cars being stolen...Tell me please brother if she is with her mahram or husband or a group of women aren't the possiblities of these horrible things happening far less...and if she stays at home to care for her family and wait for her husband to go to the market on his way home from work or go with him when he's home isn't that even safer.

I do follow a large majority of the Salafi ways of thinking I'm an American Muslimah and have been for almost 20 years my husband is Shaafi' so we also follow that line of thinking as well....but no matter which line of thinking you follow Islam is the same and a womens role will always carry great rewards for her and her family if she strives hard to serve Allah(Swt).

MasSalaama

I'm not sure if you had read my very first posting on page 1 but it does mention hadith with similiar distances of travel you have posted as well.

MasSalaama

 

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Quote Sign*Reader Replybullet Posted: 14 March 2007 at 10:44pm

Originally posted by Rami

For the one who wants sincere advice, the Islamic ruling is that one should not stay in kaafir countries.

this is just plain ridiculous coming form a people who allow billboards with channel and kfc to be placed up within sighting distance of our prophets grave. It is also safer for a women to travel in a Kafiir country nowadays than it is to travel in an islamic country!



I absolutely concur with your observation. This is not it; when I made my Hajj in mid nineties the Hilton was towering over the Harram in Makkah and the plans afoot to bring the Madison Avenue in it's environs.
The Abraj al Bait Mall - one of the largest in Saudi Arabia, outfitted with flat-panel monitors with advertisements and announcements, neon lights, an amusement park ride, fast-food restaurants and a lingerie shop - has been built directly across from Islam's holiest site.
Read the whole aricle

Anyways these occupiers of the Hermain Sharif and their satanic hunger for the glittering and gluttonous ways are direct opposite of what the Salafi school tries to impress upon the masses. It just mind boggling that place is turning into, while I have been told that the Jews have done zillion times better job of preserving  their salaf sites in Jerusalem than these Saudi sycophants who are turning the place into resort town with sky scrappers overlooking Harm Sharif.
Back to the elements of modesty: Let woman drive or not!
Sis Niqaabi: I don't think majority of the Muslim visitors subscribe to the Salaafi/ Wahabi school here which is on one hand so literal in interpretation of hadis and on the other are in bed with the western conglomerate/neocons in blowing away the wealth of Ummah.
So if you want to follow that paradigm may not  be one for the rest of us.
The long fatwahs from the fellows on Saudi payroll will not make any dent in moral degradation of the Saudis cuz I have known too many in my younger days and their short company was no less than a disaster. The went bananas after seeing open bars and availability of  booze, and pork, and for them life was American bar.
A friend of mine who worked US Embassy in Rayadh relates the stories which are just disgusting for the Saudis begging for an invitation to their parties. Cuz a lot of Jews worked there and they 'Saudi' used to tell my friend that Yahuds were better than Sauds.
And I have been told that most rich people have fully stocked bars in their homes.



Edited by Sign*Reader
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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