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Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Who Can Prove, Hadith is Prophet’s?(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
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nu001
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bullet Posted: 10 March 2007 at 11:20am

I don't believe any of the men you are reffering, Every one heard from some one; there is not a single line written by those who were with prophet. They had enough time to write after the Quran was compiled. Allah did not want it to be followd.

Allah never says follow mohammad, every where follow the messenger. That only means following the messege of the messenger. You are talking about a time, when people were rejecting Allah's words, Allah needed people to follow atleast the Quran. Prophet was working hard to establish Quran.

Now the muslims have become so good that they believe the Quran so much that they are afraid to read it and put it in the shelf with respect. And listen to anyone who just reffers that mohammad said this and that and his sahaba did this and we all jump into doing it. Did it make us good muslims? Or worshipper of other human beings. rathar than Allah? Which Allah strictly forbids in Quran. Show me one Ayat which clearly says that Muhammad had even the right to make any law?

"You will find that the Sunnah of Allah is the only Sunnah" (33:62.... 35:43...48:23)
"Shall I seek other than Allah as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?” 6:114

 

"Al-Quran-The only Straight path to success. Alhamdulillah"
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ak_m_f
 
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bullet Posted: 10 March 2007 at 2:11pm
Originally posted by nu001

Tell me, what is not there in Quran for which we need Hadith?


how to do salah ?

Also I am uncertain about camel-urine hadith; what is the wisdom behind it ?


Narrated Abu Qilaba: "Anas said, "Some people of 'Ukl or 'Uraina tribe came to Medina and its climate did not suit them. So the Prophet ordered them to go to the herd of (Milch) camels and to drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they went as directed and after they became healthy, they killed the shepherd of the Prophet and drove away all the camels. The news reached the Prophet early in the morning and he sent (men) in their pursuit and they were captured and brought at noon. He then ordered to cut their hands and feet (and it was done), and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron, They were put in 'Al-Harra' and when they asked for water, no water was given to them." Abu Qilaba said, "Those people committed theft and murder, became infidels after embracing Islam and fought against Allah and His Apostle . (Sahih Bukhari, Ablutions (Wudu'), Volume 1, Book 4, Number 234)"


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Sawtul Khilafah
 
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bullet Posted: 10 March 2007 at 2:21pm
Originally posted by nu001

Allah never says follow mohammad, every where follow the messenger. That only means following the messege of the messenger.

This is one of the most illogical arguements I have read in my life!!!

The Messenger of Allah was Mohammad (pbuh) and his understanding/interpretation of the Qur'an was certainly far better than yours.

Why do you think the Qur'an was taught by a Human messenger ? The Prophets not only bring books, but they also teach us how to obey them, how to implement the laws and also explain to us the verses in greater detail.

 

Originally posted by nu001


"Shall I seek other than Allah as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?” 6:114

This is what I mean when I say 19ners mistranslate the Qur'an.

The verse says:

Shall I then seek a judge other than Allah? And He it is Who has revealed to you the Book (which is) made plain; and those whom We have given the Book know that it is revealed by your Lord with truth, therefore you should not be of the disputers.

(Quran 6:114)

 

You also want to give the impression that the Hadith and the Qur'an are two completely different and contradictry or even opposite sources.

Hadith books are Explanations of the Quran, and any Hadith that contradicts the Qur'an is simply unacceptable as it is narrated in the Hadith books themselves (narrated from the Prophet) that we should reject any Hadith that contradicts the Qur'an.

So if you find a Hadith that Really contradicts the Qur'an, then you should leave it. But if there is an authentic Hadith that does not contradict or even fits in with the Qur'an then you should certainly obey it because it is an obligation to obey the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him.

 

Now a simple challenge nu001. What does this verse mean:

And when the word shall come to pass against/on them, We shall bring forth on them a creature out of the earth who shall speak to them because people did not believe in Our Ayaat with assurance. (Quran 27:82)



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rami
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bullet Posted: 11 March 2007 at 12:17am
Bi ismilahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum

Hadith books are Explanations of the Quran, and any Hadith that contradicts the Qur'an is simply unacceptable as it is narrated in the Hadith books themselves (narrated from the Prophet) that we should reject any Hadith that contradicts the Qur'an.

This is absolutely incorrect, there is no such hadith which says that. Further no scholar in the history of islam has rejected a hadith after it has been authenticated even if it clearly contradicts the Quran.

The scholars seek to understand why an apparent contradiction exists, many of which have simple explanations like abrogation. Had they thrown out and rejected authenticated ahadith which "seem" to contradict the Quran the science of abrogation would not have ever existed.

The Quran and hadith come from the same sources and where preserved by the same people disprove one you disprove the other.

The only way a person can hold a beliefe that we should follow the Quran only 1) hasnt read the verses in Quran which clearly state we should follow the guidance of the prophet 2)  only speaks in general terms and hasnt gone to the effort of actually disproving indavidual ahadith.


Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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nu001
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bullet Posted: 13 March 2007 at 10:30am

Originally posted by ak_m_f

Originally posted by nu001

Tell me, what is not there in Quran for which we need Hadith?


how to do salah ?

Also I am uncertain about camel-urine hadith; what is the wisdom behind it ?

Sorry ak_m_f for being late; was having some trouble with my computer. Quran gives us a the perfext way to say prayers. I will give you the ref of all the verses in Quran for that insha-Allah. But will take some time to get it noted, that I have marked in Quran.

For now:

"Say, 'My Contact Prayers (Salat), my worship practices, my life and my death, are all devoted absolutely to God alone" 6:162 also see 39:11 and 20:14

"You shall recite what is revealed to you of your Lord's Scripture. Nothing shall abrogate His words, and you shall not find any other source beside it."  18:27

"They are not all the same; among the followers of the scripture there are those who are righteous. They recite God's revelations through the night while prostrating."  3:113

"You shall recite what is revealed to you of the Scripture (the Quran), and observe the Salat." 29:45

"You shall glorify the name of your Lord, the Great” 56:74

"Praise be to God who has never begotten a son, nor does He have a partner in His kingship, nor does He need an ally out of weakness"  17:111

In light of above I would request you to take out all man made verses from your prayer.

Bowing, Standing and Prostrating are the three positions mentioned in Quran. So the physical movements are ok in all factions.

Glorify, Magnify & Praise Allah. So you can pick up exact wordings from the Quran.

Check this verse:

"As for those who believe and lead a righteous life, their Lord guides them by virtue of their belief. Rivers will flow beneath them in the garden of bliss. Their prayer therein is, 'Be you glorified our God' their greeting therein is, 'Peace' and the ending to their prayer is, 'Al-Hamdu l'Allah Rab Al-Alameen"   10:9-10

The phrase 'Allahu Akbar' is uttered frequently during Salat in compliance with God's command to magnify Him as in 2:185 and 17:111 and Sura Fatiha also should be recited frequently; [I will let you know the verse ref later in my details post on it insha-Allah.]

Recite from Quran in your salat. Recite Quran after after the prostration; there is no tashahhud in Islam, these are the verses made by the people. Have they taken the challenge of Allah to make a Sura like Quran? Isnt the whole quran enough to recite?   

You can read the laws of Allah in al-Quran and Make up your way of praying to him within His laws; Strive to reach Allah through his Quran; Allah has made islam so simple to follow; we should not make it difficult. Allah will Guide us; Insha Allah.



Edited by nu001
"Al-Quran-The only Straight path to success. Alhamdulillah"
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nu001
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bullet Posted: 13 March 2007 at 10:59am
Originally posted by Sawtul Khilafah

Now a simple challenge nu001. What does this verse mean:

And when the word shall come to pass against/on them, We shall bring forth on them a creature out of the earth who shall speak to them because people did not believe in Our Ayaat with assurance. (Quran 27:82)

Sawat

Your words sound like; That the Quran is Mohammad's words. Please once you read Quran remember that it's Allah speaking. So which words do you think Allah is refferring to? Quran? or the words that are made by people and you label some of them as right and some of them as wrong?

Read these three verses from Allah (Al Quran) you will understand; because Quran needs no explanation if you have faith in Allah and if Allah Guides you:

27:81    And you cannot guide the blind away from their error. You will only make hear those who believe in Our verses so they are Muslims

27:82    And when the word befalls them, We will bring forth for them a creature from the earth speaking to them, [saying] that the people were, of Our verses, not certain [in faith].

27:83    And [warn of] the Day when We will gather from every nation a company of those who deny Our signs, and they will be [driven] in rows

 

Remember these verses Allah sent through muhammad and Allah talks of those who were rejecting the verses of Quran. There was no existance of Hadith other than Quran.

May Allah Guide you



Edited by nu001
"Al-Quran-The only Straight path to success. Alhamdulillah"
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nu001
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bullet Posted: 13 March 2007 at 11:08am
Originally posted by rami

Bi ismilahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum

Hadith books are Explanations of the Quran, and any Hadith that contradicts the Qur'an is simply unacceptable as it is narrated in the Hadith books themselves (narrated from the Prophet) that we should reject any Hadith that contradicts the Qur'an.

This is absolutely incorrect, there is no such hadith which says that. Further no scholar in the history of islam has rejected a hadith after it has been authenticated even if it clearly contradicts the Quran.

The scholars seek to understand why an apparent contradiction exists, many of which have simple explanations like abrogation. Had they thrown out and rejected authenticated ahadith which "seem" to contradict the Quran the science of abrogation would not have ever existed.

The Quran and hadith come from the same sources and where preserved by the same people disprove one you disprove the other.

The only way a person can hold a beliefe that we should follow the Quran only 1) hasnt read the verses in Quran which clearly state we should follow the guidance of the prophet 2)  only speaks in general terms and hasnt gone to the effort of actually disproving indavidual ahadith.

"Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?" 6:114

Does anything needs explanation when it is detailed? Specially if Allah says it detail? You have never tried to understand Allah and Islam from Quran; coz you are too much bogged down with man made ambiguous words like the christians and jews with their man made books.

Please read my posts from the begining; all my evidences are from Quran. Rathaer you are talking in general without any evidence from Allah. Aren't you talking with some prior conviction in mind.Think on it and come up with your evidences against the one I have given.

Salam

"Al-Quran-The only Straight path to success. Alhamdulillah"
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nu001
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bullet Posted: 13 March 2007 at 11:30am

"We have permitted the enemies of every prophet, human and jinn devils, to inspire in each other fancy sayings, in order to deceive" 6:112

When God ALONE is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion. But when others are mentioned beside Him, they become satisfied.- 39:45

Sawt; I don't know what are you telling about 19ners ?? can you give me some links to them so I can understand?

Listen; I am not in any Group other than the groups of Muslims. I am obedient to Allah and his Quran. What ever quran says I am happy to do that and don't need partners for that. I would request you to read the Quran and look for truth to Allah. Allah will guide you if He wishes. That gives more respect to the Prophet that his Ummah wprships only Allah none else.

Christians gave a lot of respect to Jesus by making him son and even god; did not honor him to Allah. Mohammad's job was to deliver Allahs msg; If you have believed him and accepted his msg to be coming from Allah (Quran), you have paid the highest respect to him as the messenger. Muhammad was a blessed human being of Allah to be sellected as His messenger.

Believe me these are not any groups msg i am telling u; it's what i learnt from Quran.

Alhamdulillah

"Al-Quran-The only Straight path to success. Alhamdulillah"
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