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rami
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bullet Posted: 14 April 2007 at 9:09pm

Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

It appears that ignorance is bliss and your post is riddled with it. Most Muslims and by most i'm not referring to the authorities of the madhabs do not practice female genital cutting.

I beg to differ Malaysia, Indonesia and Egypt make up a vast number of the muslim population all of which are countries in which the shafii madhhab is dominant, there are other countries as well.

The Shaffi madhhab and the hanafi madhhab make up the overwhelming majority of muslims around the world, Indonisia if I remember correctly is the largest single muslim population on earth.

The muslim world is overwhelmingly different from that in the west where you and I reside, have you been outside America to a muslim land?

And yes my mind differentiates between what the "Sunnah circumcision" states and what is stated by the medical community.

If you acknowledge something is sunnah how can you go on to state it is not a part of islam.

those that do practice it mainly do the "slight trimming" of the clitoris

Is the prepuce [clitoral hood] of the clitoris now the clitoris itself?

Even if you cite the Hadith there is no explicit wording from the Prophet which states "Females must be circumcised."

What do you know about Islamic law, do you think muslims are simply literalists who don’t deeply analyse there Quran and sunnah. But even the word Deeply can only ever be understood by to the extent of your experience your world hasn’t been opened up to Islamic scholarship and its sciences, more than likely you can only conjure up what form of science and analysis you have come across in your western world. Does rasul allah [sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam] need to specifically state something for it to be a command ?

Am i making the claim they must be?

Only authoritarians do and most of the scholars in Islam are in disagreement over this issue.

Do you know how to deduce law from the Quran and sunnah, speaking from limited experience with the science of Usul al Fiqh the arguments and evidences and methods our scholars have produced over 1400 years of studying The Quran and sunnah are of a higher standard when  compared to any arguments I have seen from any individual anywhere including yours. It is easy to talk about something you know nothing about its called generalization, your statement ignorance is bliss would truly be appropriate at this point in time as ignorance allows a person to conclude on matters before comprehensively studying them.

If the scholars are in disagreement who said it is haram they only disagree on various levels of acceptability.

Maybe you think if a matter is not hallal it must be haram and there is nothing in between why else would you even bother saying he did not specifically say it must be done if your mind wasnt limited to these two extremes.

The issue regarding female circumcision is not even an Islamic practice when in fact it predates the Prophet so its not even an original practice.

Is this some sort of Usul principle that URF [custom] of a people can not be legislated upon, the argument of Islamic circumcision is in order to stop this practice entirely even among the people in which it is a custom not over whether or not this should spread around the muslim world so let us make that crystal clear. You and others are making Haram what rasul allah gave permission for and instructed on.

I dont think you know what identifies a practice as being Islamic you seem to be just certain of your self, many people confuse confidence for being correct.

The act of female circumcision is purely cultural not religious.

The moment rasul allah spoke about it, it became a religious matter, you wont find any scholar on earth who wont say this.

It is thought that female circumcision to have started in 163 B.C.E in Egypt which greeks had written about young girls in egypt who were circumcisied.

This is a non Issue since rasul allah’s words are grounds for legislation in Islam.

Here is the question if a young Muslim girl gets her clitoris slightly trimmed by a qualified Muslim how do we know that this Muslim is qualified? Obviously she cannot get it done in the States as well as other countries so where and who determines these qualifications? Even if the procedure is done according to the Sunnah does this muslim have knowledge regarding surgical procedures? There are many questions. Even if the surgery is low risk there is still risk!

Im not even slightly interested in how things are implemented, the actions of a people do not dictate Islamic law, I am only interested in what is and isn’t a part of Islam logistics are the responsibility of the people themselves.

I know you love to criticize me

You replied to my post withSince Rami refuses to deny that female "circumcision" is wrong” and then claim I love to critisise you subhanallah you replied to my post initially.

because I challenge authority because i find authority to be as fallible as those who follow authority.

This is baggage from your non Islamic days, logically speaking you have not studied the Islamic sciences to be making such a high claim so your words are baseless. Spiritualy speaking most if not all mujtahid Imams are considered awliyah in Islam, maybe theyre not infallible but there closer to ihsan [moral and spiritual perfection] in there character and judgment than anyone else on earth, having personaly looked into the sciences on an extremely basic level I have a more informed opinion than you do, you can easily counter this statement by making the effort yourself maybe you will better see what I refer to, at least I would give you the respect of a person with an informed opinion.

Islamicly speaking right character breads right judgment, would you like me to back that up for you? 

You however are blinded by your own zeal cannot possibly recognize the illogical nature of female genital cutting.

Samana wa ataynah, we hear and we obey, I have submitted my will to Allah and his prophet, your arguments don’t even compare. You have not proven otherwise nor have you logically assessed anything if I recall you are also against male circumcision and simply think it is genital cutting.

When the prophet commented on the woman who was performing the circumcision he did so with the intention make sure the young girl was not being harmed and he made a comment based on what was acceptable at that time.

Explain to me how you can know the intentions of any person let alone a prophet who lived 1400 years ago. It was his duty to teach the religion, his character was not so weak as to simply be swayed by cultural norms he set what was normal in Islamic society he was the guide he affirmed the actions of these people and further clarified the matter for them.

Since the prophet was indeed human he was involved in his own culture at that time so I wouldn't expect any individual to be so isolated from their culture simply because they receive revelations from God.

Are you saying his words are not a source of legislation, are you now negating his words with this far fetched explanation. Rasul allah [sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam] was a human prophet he was anything but normal he was privy to what others can not even dream of, if a simple scribe from the court of saydinah sulaiman can bring him the throne of bilqis in less than the blink of an eye [as it is mentioned in the Quran] and he was not even a prophet how normal are prophets compared to us, there spiritual excellence allows them to enter the heavens and see what no other human has the capacity to see.

By allah saydianh Umar after his death himself said he lived among us and behaved like us but he was not one of us.

Again I said nothing about Muslims cutting off the clitoris however they do trim the clitoris and that is a fact.

Is the prepuce [clitoral hood] of the clitoris now the clitoris itself?



Edited by rami
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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rami
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bullet Posted: 14 April 2007 at 9:24pm
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

Aminah07 wrote

so is it required or not?

No it is not sister only the shafii madhhab says it is wajib [obligatory], this whole discussion is over whether or not we can/should stop muslims who consider it wajib from performing this act.

For that to occur they have to prove it is completely Haram [an impossible task at this point in history] not simply that it isnt wajib which other madhhabs have already stated.

Rulings of the Shari`ah

Taken from http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/law/shariahintroduction.html

The rulings of shari`ah for all our daily actions are five : prescribed, recommended, permissible, disliked and unlawful . The distinctions between the five categories are in whether their performance (P) and nonperformance (NP) is rewarded, not rewarded, punished or not punished (see the table). The prescribed (fard) is also referred to as obligatory (wajib), mandatory (muhattam) and required (lazim). It is divided into two categories :

  • personally obligatory (fard al-'ayn), which is required from every individual Muslim (e.g. salah and zakah);
  • and communally obligatory (fard al- kifaya), which if performed by some Muslims is not required from others (e.g., funeral prayers).

The recomended (mandub) is also referred to as sunnah, preferable (mustahabb), meritorious (fadila), and desirable (marghub fih). Examples are night vigil (tahajjud) prayers, and rememberance of Allah (zikr).

The performance and nonperformance of the permissible/ allowed (mubah) is neither rewarded nor punished.

Nonperformance of both the disliked (makruh) and the unlawful/prohibited (haram ) is rewarded. Performance of the unlawful is punished, but that of the disliked is not punished.

""The Hanafi school has its own classification, too, as it distinguishes between the Fard and Wajib, and the Haram and Makruh Tanzihi, by making the Makruh two levels.""


Rulings of Sacred Law
1. Prescribed 2. Recommended 3. Permissible/Allowed 4. Disliked/Offensive/Detested 5. Unlawful/Prohibited
Other terms:
- Obligatory
- Mandatory
- Required

Personally obligatory, communally obligatory

Performance: rewarded
Non-Performance: punished
Other terms:
- Sunnah
- Preferable
- Meritorius
- Desirable

P: rewarded
NP: not punished
P: not rewarded
NP: not punished
P: not punished
NP: rewarded
P: punished
NP: rewarded





Edited by rami
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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bullet Posted: 14 April 2007 at 11:24pm

Rami your responses are in blue

I beg to differ Malaysia, Indonesia and Egypt make up a vast number of the muslim population all of which are countries in which the shafii madhhab is dominant, there are other countries as well.

This says nothing about practicing female circumcision except telling me about a population in which a Madhab is dominant. True, people may still practice in those countries and in fact, I'll agree with you that perhaps people practice in those countries. But I wouldn't even go as far as to say that those populations regardless their size in the religious consensus form a unified opinion on the matter. If this is true why isn't it acceptable in all other muslim countries?

If you acknowledge something is sunnah how can you go on to state it is not a part of islam.

I never said that it wasn't in the first place. I was trying to make a distinction between what is traditional practice verses the stereotypical thought allocated to it by those ignorant of Islamic practices. So when I was referring to the types of Female Genital Cutting I mentioned the three types, the third being the most severe (which is considered mutilation) I said that the Sunnah tradition is the first type I believe I made this distinction clear.

Is the prepuce [clitoral hood] of the clitoris now the clitoris itself?

No, I was referring to the excision of any part of the female genitalia, but if you are looking for particular clarification then no, according to Islamic tradition the clitoris itself is not entirely cut obviously but the hood as you've mentioned. Perhaps I was not clear here.

What do you know about Islamic law, do you think muslims are simply literalists who don’t deeply analyse there Quran and sunnah. But even the word Deeply can only ever be understood by to the extent of your experience your world hasn’t been opened up to Islamic scholarship and its sciences, more than likely you can only conjure up what form of science and analysis you have come across in your western world. Does rasul allah [sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam] need to specifically state something for it to be a command ?

 I never said anything about Muslims not understanding or incapable of analyzing the qur'an, although I believe a large portion of the community do not critically think and analyze doctrine very well I do not believe the entire majority behaves this way. You're also right that the extent of my knwoledge of shari'ah Law is not very much, however I am knowledgeable on the basic claims of the Madhabs regarding issues in relation to philosophical matters (i.e. ethics, conduct). I also understand the Islamic process of legislation on certain matters such as the subject we are currently discussing. From my understanding, the rulings of the Islamic Legislation (Shari`ah) are to be deduced from the authentic sources of legalization, namely the Qur'an, right Sunnah (i.e., right Prophetic Traditions), Consensus of Muslim Scholars in case it fulfills its conditions stated in the science of the Principles of Islamic Jurisprudence as well as the sound Qiyas (i.e., Analogical Deduction).

How can one make a correct interpretation of a sound statement if it does not directly address an issue. If the prophet comments on a specific thing he did not say that thing is law. For example in the case with the Hadith the prophet didn't specify that female circumcision was obligatory nor is it even mentioned in the Qur'an. so how can a ruling be made on this if it is not even mentioned in the Supreme source which is god's Holy Words: The Qur'an Kareem.

As far as Sunnah is concerned, there are some Prophetic Hadiths that may indicate the legality of practicing female circumcision despite the fact that none of these Hadiths have an authentic chain of transmitters so that it is not possible to deduce a legal ruling from them on such a very serious human matter.

Do you know how to deduce law from the Quran and sunnah, speaking from limited experience with the science of Usul al Fiqh the arguments and evidences and methods our scholars have produced over 1400 years of studying The Quran and sunnah are of a higher standard when  compared to any arguments I have seen from any individual anywhere including yours. It is easy to talk about something you know nothing about its called generalization, your statement ignorance is bliss would truly be appropriate at this point in time as ignorance allows a person to conclude on matters before comprehensively studying them.

These scholars are indeed intelligent and highly trained and although I'm inclined to agree with you that these knowledgeable men are highly trained their skill is not supreme. They can only explain the sciences in accordance to Islamic tradition using subjective premises which amount only to the subjective truths they are so willingly trying to prove. The only intellectual in the Muslim world even close to fusing religion and objective science together was  Ibn Rushd (Averroes) who, was considered a heretic for his commentary on Aristotilean works during the Almohad dynasty.

If the scholars are in disagreement who said it is haram they only disagree on various levels of acceptability.

Maybe you think if a matter is not hallal it must be haram and there is nothing in between why else would you even bother saying he did not specifically say it must be done if your mind wasnt limited to these two extremes.

I'm not saying that one must accept one polar opposite over the other i was simply saying that this subject is not concrete in law. The various levels you mentioned are not gray areas, rather, it is the interpretation of Hadiths and their transmitters and whether they are reliable enough to make such a legislation.

Is this some sort of Usul principle that URF [custom] of a people can not be legislated upon, the argument of Islamic circumcision is in order to stop this practice entirely even among the people in which it is a custom not over whether or not this should spread around the muslim world so let us make that crystal clear. You and others are making Haram what rasul allah gave permission for and instructed on.

I dont think you know what identifies a practice as being Islamic you seem to be just certain of your self, many people confuse confidence for being correct.

This is a non Issue since rasul allah’s words are grounds for legislation in Islam.

Im not even slightly interested in how things are implemented, the actions of a people do not dictate Islamic law, I am only interested in what is and isn’t a part of Islam logistics are the responsibility of the people themselves.

Ok.

This is baggage from your non Islamic days, logically speaking you have not studied the Islamic sciences to be making such a high claim so your words are baseless. Spiritualy speaking most if not all mujtahid Imams are considered awliyah in Islam, maybe theyre not infallible but there closer to ihsan [moral and spiritual perfection] in there character and judgment than anyone else on earth, having personaly looked into the sciences on an extremely basic level I have a more informed opinion than you do, you can easily counter this statement by making the effort yourself maybe you will better see what I refer to, at least I would give you the respect of a person with an informed opinion.

Also logically speaking you are committing a fallacy and based upon what you're saying I can only reduce this large paragraph to a simple "That is your opinion." Since you claim to be more informed than me I'd like to see that.

Explain to me how you can know the intentions of any person let alone a prophet who lived 1400 years ago. It was his duty to teach the religion, his character was not so weak as to simply be swayed by cultural norms he set what was normal in Islamic society he was the guide he affirmed the actions of these people and further clarified the matter for them.

I'll admit it was an interpretation through my examining the various Hadith sources attributed to the legitimacy of female circumcision as well as Qur'an. My process is not extremely different than that of scholars who interpret doctrine/text.

Are you saying his words are not a source of legislation, are you now negating his words with this far fetched explanation. Rasul allah [sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam] was a human prophet he was anything but normal he was privy to what others can not even dream of, if a simple scribe from the court of saydinah sulaiman can bring him the throne of bilqis in less than the blink of an eye [as it is mentioned in the Quran] and he was not even a prophet how normal are prophets compared to us, there spiritual excellence allows them to enter the heavens and see what no other human has the capacity to see.

I never said the Prophet's words are not a legitimate source of law I would divide myself from the greater community if I did so and would thus become a Kafir if I did that. The prophet was the leader of the community but he did not separate himself from the people nor made himself more than others only those who revere him do so. I, unlike yourself do not revere the prophet in the way Christians revere Jesus (I do not say your reverence is worship but your reverence is more than it should be of a great person). I respect and love the intellect of Muhammad but I also understand his physical body was human (or at least according to history it was) and his behavior was human. I can create a dialetical argument on how his prophetic image separates his "humaness" from others but that would take away from the subject at hand.

Is the prepuce [clitoral hood] of the clitoris now the clitoris itself?

I believe I answered this already.

 

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bullet Posted: 15 April 2007 at 5:31am

Asalaamu alaikum:

I as an American Nurse abhor the thought of some person mutilatiing the body of a young woman. I do not think that Allah (swt) the Merciful, would sanction such a thing. Some of  the cultures avocate the cutting of the hymen in the female to open up the vaginal area in order to promote healthier flow and prevent infection. That was probably the original intent. Quote a hadith, and many times someone else can quote one to counteract it. I have noticed that some of the stricter madrasa teachings in your side of the world even state that the Prophet advocated that woman had no business at the mosque or even being out of the house. (are you of the persuasion that put the women in burqas in Afghanistan?)

Cutting a womans clitoris is the equivalent of cutting off the top half of a man's penis. Does this sound like something you would want done to you?

Since there is such a debate on this subject, I wish to share the following article from the Muslim American Society website, I received a copy of this in an email:


 

Muslims in Kenya launch Campaign on Issue of Female Genital Mutilation

Date Posted: Friday, April 06, 2007


In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

WASHINGTON, DC - Apr. 6, 2007 (MASNET) The practice of Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) is widespread in a number of cultures throughout the world, including some that have a majority Muslim population. The MAS Freedom Foundation believes that the imposition of this practice of the forced genital mutilation of girls and women is a clear violation of human rights and equal protection under the law for people of both genders.

Further, FGM has no basis in either the Holy Qur'an or the Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

Accordingly, we call for an end to this cruel and painful practice, and we offer this article as an example of a progressive dialogue within a Muslim community in Africa that is confronting the issue.

ARTICLE:

Muslims in Kenya launch Campaign on Issue of Female Genital Mutilation

Muslim leaders of Kenya have decided to speak of the dangers of the widespread practice that permanently scars women and girls. The leaders say it is a tradition, not an Islamic obligation.

Sunday, April 01, 2007

IRIN 

The decision by Muslim religious leaders in northeastern Kenya to talk about the dangers of female genital mutilation (FGM) during Friday prayers has turned into a significant campaign against the practice.

"We have managed to educate people and convince many parents, including those with strong traditional beliefs, that circumcising girls is not a requirement in Islam," said Sheikh Harun Rashid of Isiolo Rahma Mosque.

"Our first assignment was to inform the parents that the holy book [Quran] teaches that the painful act is not an obligation; it is a tradition and not a religious obligation," he told IRIN in Isiolo.

The campaign, which started in a small way 10 years ago, is now spearheaded by the Muslim Council of Imams and Preachers of Kenya. It still relies heavily on teachings delivered during Friday prayers, to reach the large Muslim populations in northeastern Kenya. More than 30 Mosques exist in Isiolo and Garissa towns alone, and the campaign has been extended to the coastal province as well.

"Our approach is different and cheap, unlike those [workshops] done in hotels," Rashid added. "Our simple campaigns by imams and Islamic schoolteachers are mainly conducted on Friday when large numbers of Muslims attend weekly prayers so we convince many."

It was cruel and caused the end of my marriage. I vowed the same will not be done to my two daughters 

According to council officials, the campaign has now spread across northeastern and parts of eastern provinces.

"Islam is very clear; no part of our bodies should be removed or changed. Only boys are supposed to be cut," explained Sheikh Mohamed Abdi from nearby Garissa, the largely Muslim capital of northeastern region.

"I was very young, but still remember the day I was circumcised," she told IRIN in Isiolo. "It was cruel and caused the end of my marriage. I vowed the same will not be done to my two daughters."

Her friend and business partner, Zainab Noor, disagreed, however. "The practice was introduced to protect our girls," she said. "Whoever is opposing it is evil. The community should fight any attempts to introduce immorality."

Widespread practice

FGM involves the cutting and/or removal of the clitoris and other vaginal tissue, often under unsanitary conditions. It is practised in at least 28 countries globally and the United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF) estimates that up to 140 million girls and women around the world have undergone some form of FGM.

It is practised extensively in Africa, including in Kenya. But pressure from human-rights activists has so far compelled 16 African governments to legislate against FGM, in line with the 2005 Maputo Protocol, an African regional document that explicitly prohibits and condemns FGM.

Kenya has signed the protocol and banned the practice under the Children's Act 2001, which protects girls from early marriage or forced FGM, and charges anyone found practising FGM. But observers say the law has proved extremely difficult to enforce.

Anti-FGM activists estimate that 32 percent of all women between the ages of 15 and 49 in more than half of Kenya's districts have undergone FGM. The numbers are high among the Kisii ethnic group, the Maasai, Kalenjin, Taita/Taveta and the Meru/Embu.

Apart from legislation, Kenyan authorities and NGOs are trying to raise public awareness through education campaigns and encouraging alternative rights of passage - a practice where communities maintain the rituals that lead adolescent girls to womanhood but exclude FGM.

SOURCE: For the complete article, see: http://www.speroforum.com/site/article.asp?idcategory=33& ; ;idSub=121&idArticle=8773



Edited by Maryah
"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.
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bullet Posted: 15 April 2007 at 6:39am
Originally posted by Maryah

Kenya has signed the protocol and banned the practice under the Children's Act 2001, which protects girls from early marriage or forced FGM, and charges anyone found practising FGM.


Early marriage is practiced in many societies. For heaven's sake, what on earth could make the western practice of early pre-marital sex superior to early marriage?

By associating "early marriage" to "forced FGM", the entire agenda ends up being just a piece of western propaganda.

The central underlying idea of the Children's Act is the idea that governments will interfere between parents and children. That idea must be rejected, and is rejected across the free world.

This whole FGM issue is just another decoy for the lesbians to stick their noses in other people's business.

The ultimate authority in children's education is the family, and not a bunch of single-mother lesbians waisting taxpayer's money in an office at 15000 kilometers from the scene.
Originally posted by Maryah

But observers say the law has proved extremely difficult to enforce.

Dealing with the West comes with too many strings attached. What's more, the West has no use any longer for the free world. Any manufactured goods can be sourced from China and India at a cheaper price. What else is the West now offering beyond meddling in other people's affairs?

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bullet Posted: 15 April 2007 at 1:44pm

Crass you said:

This whole FGM issue is just another decoy for the lesbians to stick their noses in other people's business.

The ultimate authority in children's education is the family, and not a bunch of single-mother lesbians waisting taxpayer's money in an office at 15000 kilometers from the scene

Crass, patty was right. It appears that you are far more st**id than I thought. What gives you the idea that the article Sister Maryah listed had anything to due with the sexual orientation of other human beings? A woman/little girl/child has every right to be free from pain and any other displeasurable act. The difference of opinion regarding this issue stems from how certain Hadiths are interpreted. The varying levels of disagreement that Rami implied is a smoke screen to the greater underlined issue, that is the interpretation whether the practice is acceptable or not.

The excision of vaginal tissue (even part of it) does not serve a benefit to the person as I have shown it is nothing more than a cultural practice solidified by myth. Obviously by proving such an act is objectively wrong is not accepted, therefore one must prove how it is wajib according to Islamic Law and I have no problems doing that however, I'm inclined to take the higher position which is to try to argue with objective reason. It seriously makes no sense to "slightly trim" the hood of the clitorous simply because it increases sexual performance/passage from childhood to adulthood/to control the woman's virginity.

My argument refutes the interpretation made by scholars who they themselves are men and are of priviledged status who make these claims. Obviously they are comfortable because they are authoritarians and also because they don't have to have their penis shaved...Excuse my language but only priviledged men can justify such abarbaric practice.

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bullet Posted: 15 April 2007 at 5:02pm
Originally posted by Israfil

What gives you the idea that the article Sister Maryah listed had anything to due with the sexual orientation of other human beings? A woman/little girl/child has every right to be free from pain and any other displeasurable act.

And why link the issue of forced FGM to early marriage? That almost guarantees that the entire agenda will be rejected.

The following needs to be implemented:
(1) no killing of daughters
(2) no FGM
(3) no marriage before the age of 18
(4) parents cannot prevent the daughter from having boyfriend sex after 14
(5) alimony for ex-wive and her new boyfriend

They are arguing based on (1) and (2) that they should implement (3), (4) and (5).

That is called agenda manipulation, and this Children's Act is a typical example of that.

Everybody can see through it. Regardless of the merits of any arguments against FGM, the agenda must be rejected.
Originally posted by Israfil

the sexual orientation of other human beings

Homosexuality is outlawed, because it violates the laws of the One God. There is only sexual orientation allowed.

This idea that all sexual orientations are equal, is also a constituent part of the western agenda. And this must be rejected too.

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bullet Posted: 15 April 2007 at 8:06pm

Crasss,

 And I see by your statements that misgynocism is alive and well.

I would be afraid if you were my father or husband. Are you infering that I am lesbian because I am a western Muslim woman? May Allah (swt) be my judge, YOU are not.

Someday the clerics of Islam will look to the West. And will have more respect for the women amongst them. The largest growth in Islam is in the west and it is primarily women. We will someday outnumber you.

The article was written by knowledgeable people and the lessons against FMG are given by knowledgeable Muslim clerics.

Seems to me the only perversion there would be with FGM is with the creeps that cut the little girls and maim them. What kind of creep invades the awrah of a young female to play with their genitalia?  That really stumps me. That to me is Mabruk.

Thank you brother Israfil for your wisdom and support. I am not a scholar but I certainly have a heart!

Maryah

"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.
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