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Showkat
 
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bullet Topic: Female circumcision halal?
    Posted: 09 March 2007 at 2:45pm

Salaams All

The topic of female circumcision has always been controversial and commonly accepted as being a cultural practice and considered haram as it mutilates the woman.

A discussion is taking place based on Islamic evidences on this very important topic which u can view and participate in. Please note that some people are very strongly of the opinion that it is halal. See the link below inshAllah

http://www.7cgen.com/index.php?showtopic=8745&hl=

www.Muslimways.com, check out the poetry section
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rami
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bullet Posted: 11 March 2007 at 12:02am
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

Please note that some people are very strongly of the opinion that it is halal.

Thats becouse it is halal, rasul allah [sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam] specifically spoke about it. islamic female circumcision is not mutilation only western fanatical idiots who confuse actual mutilation with islamic circumcision say such garbage, i suggest you look up what it means islamicaly before stating such things. If you have not learnt about this topic from Islamic sources dont comment on the Islamic aspects of the discussion.

Finaly i suggest you also do a search on this forum becouse it has been extensively discussed.
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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bullet Posted: 11 March 2007 at 9:46am
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rami
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bullet Posted: 11 March 2007 at 7:59pm
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

It is a valid ruling in Islam to perform female circumcision as rasul allah [sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam] described.

"Cut off only the foreskin (outer fold of skin over the clitoris; the prepuce) but do not cut off deeply (i.e. the clitoris itself), for this is brighter for the face (of the girl) and more favorable with the husband."

Mutilation occurs when the clitoris is cut or removed, this is the distinction between Islamic circumcision and FGM which westerners fail to see.

Jamal Badawi is welcome to prove this hadith is fabricated but until that occurs the above hadith remains the words of Rasul allah thus no person can ever claim for this to be Haram as aproval is clear even in the translation.
 
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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bullet Posted: 12 March 2007 at 10:19pm
Originally posted by rami

Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

It is a valid ruling in Islam to perform female circumcision as rasul allah [sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam] described.

"Cut off only the foreskin (outer fold of skin over the clitoris; the prepuce) but do not cut off deeply (i.e. the clitoris itself), for this is brighter for the face (of the girl) and more favorable with the husband."

Mutilation occurs when the clitoris is cut or removed, this is the distinction between Islamic circumcision and FGM which westerners fail to see.

Jamal Badawi is welcome to prove this hadith is fabricated but until that occurs the above hadith remains the words of Rasul allah thus no person can ever claim for this to be Haram as aproval is clear even in the translation.
 

Rami
ASA
Let's get to the point;There is no may be in this information age.
What is the injunction here; should it be done (yes/No)
Is it part of the faith and if yes the supporting evidence?
Do you have any daughters of your own? are you natural born Australian? and where do you stand on this issue?
Thanks & salaam




Edited by Sign*Reader
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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bullet Posted: 13 March 2007 at 2:52pm
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

My posts is clear and the hadith is clear.

the sunnah of rasul allah [sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam] is a source of law in islam.

without intending insult how long have you been a muslim as i find my self pointing out an obvious matter in our dean.

There is a ruling in the shafii madhab that says it is wajib, there is another ruling in the shafii madhhab that states it is not wajib but merely recommended, Hanafi's also hold it is not wajib.

no one can ever claim it is Haram becouse rasul allah gave instruction on this act specifically. It is a matter of personal choice for those who dont adhere to the wajib ruling of the shafii madhhab.





Edited by rami
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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bullet Posted: 13 March 2007 at 4:19pm

Originally posted by rami

Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

It is a valid ruling in Islam to perform female circumcision as rasul allah [sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam] described.

"Cut off only the foreskin (outer fold of skin over the clitoris; the prepuce) but do not cut off deeply (i.e. the clitoris itself), for this is brighter for the face (of the girl) and more favorable with the husband."

Mutilation occurs when the clitoris is cut or removed, this is the distinction between Islamic circumcision and FGM which westerners fail to see.

Jamal Badawi is welcome to prove this hadith is fabricated but until that occurs the above hadith remains the words of Rasul allah thus no person can ever claim for this to be Haram as aproval is clear even in the translation.
 

Assalam Aleikum.

I guess Br Jamal Badawi is now delving into the science of hadith. Good luck to him! It is sad to see the hadiths distorted by Muslims and non-Muslims.

Nice clarification of the issue and I think the Maliki madhab considers it "recommended".

 

A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/
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bullet Posted: 13 March 2007 at 11:20pm
Originally posted by rami

Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

the sunnah of rasul allah [sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam] is a source of law in islam.

I didn't hear rasul allah(saw) practice this in his household. if did -show me pl.

Originally posted by rami


without intending insult how long have you been a muslim as i find my self pointing out an obvious matter in our dean.

I  say my dad was Muslim & grand pa was and could care less before that cuz all the the Muslim people were colonized then so their being Muslim or or what ever is immaterial.
The people in bondage  had nothing to brag about their deen even the punishment of slaves is half.- if you know what I mean.
I had never heard of this female circumcisions till recently (in my golden years) when I heard late last year some Ethiopian dude(Khalid Adem) was convicted and sent to jail for 15 years in Georgia for doing this surgery on his 2 year old  daughter. The Africans or mid easterners morons brought the practice to the US in order to give a black eye to the Islamic community. This after cartoons ruckus didn't help the already maligned Islamic faith.
And I didn't see your face taking the mike infront of the TV camera for an obvious matter in our deen.
but now I know the status of this obvious matter goes as follows:

Legal Measures to Eliminate FGM
Several governments in Africa and elsewhere have taken steps to eliminate the practice of FGM in their countries. These steps include laws criminalizing FGM, education and outreach programs and the use of civil remedies and administrative regulations to prevent the practice.

Read on

African Nations
Fourteen countries—Benin, Burkina Faso, Central African Republic, Chad, Côte d’Ivoire, Djibouti, Ethiopia, Ghana, Guinea, Kenya, Niger, Senegal, Tanzania, and Togo—have enacted laws criminalizing FGM. The penalties range from a minimum of six months to a maximum of life in prison. Several countries also impose monetary fines. In Egypt, the Ministry of Health issued a decree declaring FGM unlawful and punishable under the Penal Code.

There have been reports of prosecutions or arrests in cases involving FGM in several African countries, including Burkina Faso, Egypt, Ghana, Senegal, and Sierra Leone.

Industrialized Nations
Ten industrialized countries that receive immigrants from countries where FGM is practiced—Australia, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, New Zealand, Norway, Spain, Sweden, United Kingdom, and United States—have passed laws criminalizing the practice. In Australia, six out of eight states have passed laws against FGM. In the United States, the federal government and 16 states have criminalized the practice.

One country—France—has relied on existing criminal legislation to prosecute both practitioners of FGM and parents procuring the service for their daughters.

Now you tell about yourself, are you from the same neighborhood as was Khalid Adem? or some special special place which we don't know where
Originally posted by rami


There is a ruling in the shafii madhab that says it is wajib, there is another ruling in the shafii madhhab that states it is not wajib but merely recommended, Hanafi's also hold it is not wajib.

Being a Hanafi I guess I got lucky, I am going to check who have more fun the Shafiites or the Hanifite !
Originally posted by rami


no one can ever claim it is Haram becouse rasul allah gave instruction on this act specifically. It is a matter of personal choice for those who dont adhere to the wajib ruling of the shafii madhhab.

Rami it is law of the land which decides unless someone loves the place in the big house.
I went back to look at some of your previous posts as what is the logic behind all this?
 You do have a tendency of  pull rank --but you are not the mod any more so there -Thank God.
I hope you are resident in a safe Aussi state and be safe for preaching this !


Edited by Sign*Reader
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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