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Islam for non-Muslims
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robin
 
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Quote robin Replybullet Posted: 04 July 2008 at 1:22am
Originally posted by believer

The Jews didn't crucify Jesus the Romans did.
 
 
 
NO!
 
The Jew had to have Roman permission to murder Jesus, the Romans washed their hands of Him.
 

Matthew 27:24-26 = [Added for meaning]

Seeing that it did no good but, rather, an uproar was arising, Pilate took water and washed his hands before the crowd, saying: "I am innocent of the blood of this [man]. YOU yourselves [THE JEWS] must see to it. " 25 At that all the people said in answer: "His blood come upon us and upon our children." 26 Then he released Bar·ab´bas to them, but he had Jesus whipped and handed him over to [THE JEWS] be impaled.
 
He. the Roman representative, Pilate, gave them permision to murder Jesus.
 
So the Jews are responsilbe for the death of Jesus not the Romans!


Edited by robin - 04 July 2008 at 1:24am
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minuteman
 
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Quote minuteman Replybullet Posted: 04 July 2008 at 10:21am
 
 

That is right. But the problem is why the Jews were shouting and asking for Jesus to be crucified. The charge was blasphemy. The punishment for blasphemy in Jewish law was stoning to death. But they were interested in having Jesus killed on the cross. That point has good meaning and should be noted.

It is true, Pilate did not want to punish Jesus. He did everything possible to avoid any serious punishment to Jesus. One proof has been provided by robin above. It is a funny thing (question) as to who killed Jesus? Different people are giving different answers. The Jews say that they killed Jesus (as mentioned in the Quran too).

Some say that the Romans killed Jesus (as it is described in an earkier post). I have known the R. Caholics saying that the Romans did not kill Jesus but that we (The christians) killed Jesus. There seems to be some truth in that because the last Pope (John paul II?) had openly absolved the Jews for the death of Jesus.He said that Jews were not guilty of killing Jesus. That was good for the Jews. But robin does not seem to agree to that.

The best of all is the claim of the Quran that Jesus did not die on the cross. He was saved miraculously from the cursed death on the cross (which he wanted to avoid). So there is no need to find out about who killed Jesus.

If any one is bad some one must suffer
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robin
 
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Quote robin Replybullet Posted: 04 July 2008 at 12:32pm
Originally posted by minuteman

 
 

That is right. But the problem is why the Jews were shouting and asking for Jesus to be crucified. The charge was blasphemy. The punishment for blasphemy in Jewish law was stoning to death. But they were interested in having Jesus killed on the cross. That point has good meaning and should be noted.

It is true, Pilate did not want to punish Jesus. He did everything possible to avoid any serious punishment to Jesus. One proof has been provided by robin above. It is a funny thing (question) as to who killed Jesus? Different people are giving different answers. The Jews say that they killed Jesus (as mentioned in the Quran too).

Some say that the Romans killed Jesus (as it is described in an earkier post). I have known the R. Caholics saying that the Romans did not kill Jesus but that we (The christians) killed Jesus. There seems to be some truth in that because the last Pope (John paul II?) had openly absolved the Jews for the death of Jesus.He said that Jews were not guilty of killing Jesus. That was good for the Jews. But robin does not seem to agree to that.

The best of all is the claim of the Quran that Jesus did not die on the cross. He was saved miraculously from the cursed death on the cross (which he wanted to avoid). So there is no need to find out about who killed Jesus.

 
You missed these:-
 
Deuteronomy 21:22-23 THE LAW
"And in case there comes to be in a man a sin deserving the sentence of death, and he has been put to death, and you have hung him upon a stake, 23 his dead body should not stay all night on the stake; but you should by all means bury him on that day, because something accursed of God is the one hung up; and you must not defile your soil, which Jehovah your God is giving you as an inheritance.
 
Joshua 8:29
And he hanged the king of A´i upon a stake until the evening time; and as the sun was about to set Joshua gave the command, and then they took his dead body down from the stake and pitched it at the entrance of the gate of the city and raised up a great pile of stones over him, down to this day.
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minuteman
 
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Quote minuteman Replybullet Posted: 27 July 2008 at 6:46pm
 
  Thanks robin, That proves the death on the cross is a cursed death which was planned by the Jews for Jesus. They carried it out as much as they could. But what if Jesus was alive when he came down from the cross? He had fainted and looked a dead man. Every one believed that he was dead. Out of respect they did not break his legs.  (Out of respect? Yes, even the non Jew centurian was saying 'surely he was a man of God').
 They did not bury in underground. Just laid Jesus in a room like tomb. Since he was not dead, he came to senses and after some time, he walked away on his own legs with the same old body and same old wounds.
 
  It is necessary to find out how did Jesus die. Or, did he die on the cross at all?


Edited by minuteman - 28 July 2008 at 9:49am
If any one is bad some one must suffer
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robin
 
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Quote robin Replybullet Posted: 27 July 2008 at 10:05pm
Originally posted by minuteman

 
But what if Jesus was alive when he came down from the cross? 
 
I would make faith and belief in God & Jesus a total waist of time and one might as well become a athiest!
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Quote minuteman Replybullet Posted: 29 July 2008 at 2:25am
 
  robin, you are from Jw or YW. You need two miracles. First one that Jesus must die on the cross for the salvation of mankind. Then he should come to life. Then he should walk about and then go to the father (God) in heaven.
 
 Then when he will sit on the right side of God, it means he is still there a separate entity from the Great God. Where did his body go when Jesus ascended to heavens?
 
 There are so many problems. It is difficult to ask the answers from Believer or robin. robin has different theories.


Edited by minuteman - 29 July 2008 at 2:26am
If any one is bad some one must suffer
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Quote believer Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2008 at 6:28pm
robin - My point was that it was the Roman system that the Jews were living under and their means of punishment. 
 
Ok now go to the next verse, even in the Quran GOD raised Jesus up to himself at the physical crucifixion.
 
Was Jesus raised in body or spirit.  If He is to return in the Quran what about His body?  
 
004.158
YUSUFALI: Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
PICKTHAL: But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise.
SHAKIR: Nay! Allah took him up to Himself; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Quote believer Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2008 at 6:30pm
GOD's Word - Jesus is on His right side.  GOD stands by His WORD and His WORD stands by Him.
 
 
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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