IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Mohammad & Wives

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senekerk

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Joined: 08 December 2006
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Posted: 23 January 2007 at 5:47pm

Sign reader, i can not afford to hold a resentment over what you said I admit I was pickyunise and trite concerning the word beautiy please accept my apologies. i must let my hurt feelings go and let allah handle the situation

Regards Kay

Kay

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ZEA J

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Joined: 01 June 2005
Location: United States
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Posts: 224

Posted: 23 January 2007 at 8:46pm

Now i am begining to wonder wheather senekerk is here to learn about islam or to creat fitnah.

"You will never attain piety and righteousness,(and eventually paradise)until you
spend of that which you love."(Al-Imran:92)

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Andalus

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Posts: 1187

Posted: 23 January 2007 at 9:33pm

Originally posted by senekerk

Bismillahi Ah-Rahman, Al-Rahim

Assalaam alaikum

I am over half way through Martin Lings Mohammad. I am troubled by the many times in which the prophet (pbuh) seemed to marry the most beautiful girl of his conquests and had revelations telling him it was alright. That seems a little ironic to me. Perhaps it is my western mind that finds the idea of more than one wife troubling. would someone please help me understand this. thank you in advance

Greetings senekerk.

I am not sure what particular thing is troubling to you?

So it is wrong to marry more than one woman in your view?

So it is wrong for a man to be attracted to a woman who has some physical attribute that is pleasing to the eye?

Please clarify.

[/QUOTE]

A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/

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Andalus

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Posts: 1187

Posted: 23 January 2007 at 9:46pm

Originally posted by senekerk

Originally posted by Sign*Reader

Salaam Kay:
I had recommended the Br. Ling's acclaimed book for it's beautiful language and unique narrative loved by all I have come across.

Your point on his marriages should never be compared with the current western norm. Need a comparison look up the Prophets of the OT.

What is page # you have the issue with the author and we can discuss the appropriate detail for your edification.

Rami and David's responses were just superb scholarship.

In respect to what has been written, I am focusing on a trival word-beauty- pg 168- Hafsa bint Umar described as beautiful and accomplished.

pg 213-Umm Salama described as a great beauty

pg 219 Zaynab bint Jash described as beautiful amd the Prophet(pbuh) was amazed by her beauty.

Pg 250 Juwaryirya, a captive- described as woman of great lovliness and beauty

pg 279 Safiyya bint Huyayy Captured in battle, described as beautiful-caused jealousy among other wives

pg 286-287 Maria al Qibitiyy- slave?? Prophet (pbuh) marveled at her beauty reavelation on banning.

I can see where some people would exploit the use of this word and cast doubt on the Prophet (pbuh) and his motives. When i did a search for wives of Muhammad I got a list with motives and most were charity or political to cement relations with others. I don't really have a problem with more than one wife, but that word beautiful kept jumping out at me.

So you would be happier if someone described them as ugly? Do you think that if any of them were ugly, that a companion would have transmitted that word in any form?

Look at Umm Salama.

She declined the Prophet's (saw) invitation for marriage because she was of age and already had 4 children!

A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/

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Andalus

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Joined: 12 October 2005
Location: United States
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Posts: 1187

Posted: 23 January 2007 at 9:47pm

Originally posted by senekerk

OK so he married to form bonds with Arab tribes, and he did not really want to marry and sex wasn't an issue so why did he marry beautiful women?

So he should only choose ugly women? The leaders of other tribes should only offer ugly women?

Senekerk, I am not sure what your particular trouble is?

A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/

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Andalus

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Joined: 12 October 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1187

Posted: 23 January 2007 at 9:50pm

Originally posted by senekerk

Regards Kay

senekerk,

some may seem to be quick to label you as a troll or missionary, etc. This is due to some of the ugly bashing that takes place in the internet. Please do keep up your investigation, and your questions, and keep your heart open to what you may find.

May God guid us all.

A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/

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DavidC

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Joined: 20 September 2001
Location: United States
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Posts: 2211

Posted: 23 January 2007 at 10:06pm

Look at Qu'ran 18:7-18:8 in the Asad translation and also in the Yusuf Ali translation. The differences indicate we might benefit from going back to the Arabic on this use of 'beauty'.

It could also be a idiomatic use too. In American culture we always call brides and babies beautiful even though that might not be an objectve truth

. Perhaps the authors of the hadiths were simply being polite.

David C.

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Sign*Reader

Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 02 November 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3352

Posted: 23 January 2007 at 10:13pm

Originally posted by senekerk

Regards Kay

My dear Kay:
I am sorry that it had to come to this kind of exchange between us. My comment was not meant to hurt you at all rather to set a threshold i.e., what is the limit in this journey of yours into the house where Muhammad (pbuh) happens to be the King of hearts. And no body enters unless heart and mind is in absolute alignment in reverence of the owner of the realm; meaning that he would be dearer than our parents, children and our spouses cuz he came back from the presence of Allah to complete the message for us and cleared the path by traveling each aspect of it in its perfection and selflessness of character. He was a man like no other man that
in Quraan 33:56-Lo! Allah and his angels shower blessings on the Prophet. O ye who believe! Ask blessings on him and salute him with worthty salutations.
The masses are blind being with 20/20 sight, they have the visions for the Almighty cuz of him. Knowing what sacrifices he made that transformed the companions from the barbarians to the elite of humanity. If you read about the details of his wives they became the delegates for him towards the woman folks of the community cuz they would learn his character and qualities first hand and transmit and train others after he was gone.
The last but not the least thing about entering in the
house of Islam starts with the Kalima:
which starts with la ilaha meaning there is no god, why does it start like that cuz you would need to wipe the slate clean before from your heart and mind that also includes your selfish ego, next is illiah but Allah and Muhammad is His messenger.
These are the stages you need to understand.
Peace to you

Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.

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Author	Message
senekerk Senior Member Joined: 08 December 2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 161	Posted: 23 January 2007 at 5:47pm
	Sign reader, i can not afford to hold a resentment over what you said I admit I was pickyunise and trite concerning the word beautiy please accept my apologies. i must let my hurt feelings go and let allah handle the situation Regards Kay
	Kay
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ZEA J Senior Member Joined: 01 June 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 224	Posted: 23 January 2007 at 8:46pm
	Now i am begining to wonder wheather senekerk is here to learn about islam or to creat fitnah.
	"You will never attain piety and righteousness,(and eventually paradise)until you spend of that which you love."(Al-Imran:92)
	IP Logged

Andalus Moderator Group Joined: 12 October 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1187	Posted: 23 January 2007 at 9:33pm
	*Originally posted by senekerk* Bismillahi Ah-Rahman, Al-Rahim Assalaam alaikum I am over half way through Martin Lings Mohammad. I am troubled by the many times in which the prophet (pbuh) seemed to marry the most beautiful girl of his conquests and had revelations telling him it was alright. That seems a little ironic to me. Perhaps it is my western mind that finds the idea of more than one wife troubling. would someone please help me understand this. thank you in advance Greetings senekerk. I am not sure what particular thing is troubling to you? So it is wrong to marry more than one woman in your view? So it is wrong for a man to be attracted to a woman who has some physical attribute that is pleasing to the eye? Please clarify. [/QUOTE]
	A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah http://www.sunnipath.com http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/ http://www.pt-go.com/
	IP Logged

Andalus Moderator Group Joined: 12 October 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1187	Posted: 23 January 2007 at 9:46pm
	*Originally posted by senekerk* **Originally posted by SignReader*** Salaam Kay: I had recommended the Br. Ling's acclaimed book for it's beautiful language and unique narrative loved by all I have come across. Your point on his marriages should never be compared with the current western norm. Need a comparison look up the Prophets of the OT. What is page # you have the issue with the author and we can discuss the appropriate detail for your edification. Rami and David's responses were just superb scholarship. In respect to what has been written, I am focusing on a trival word-beauty- pg 168- Hafsa bint Umar described as beautiful and accomplished. pg 213-Umm Salama described as a great beauty pg 219 Zaynab bint Jash described as beautiful amd the Prophet(pbuh) was amazed by her beauty. Pg 250 Juwaryirya, a captive- described as woman of great lovliness and beauty pg 279 Safiyya bint Huyayy Captured in battle, described as beautiful-caused jealousy among other wives pg 286-287 Maria al Qibitiyy- slave?? Prophet (pbuh) marveled at her beauty reavelation on banning. I can see where some people would exploit the use of this word and cast doubt on the Prophet (pbuh) and his motives. When i did a search for wives of Muhammad I got a list with motives and most were charity or political to cement relations with others. I don't really have a problem with more than one wife, but that word beautiful kept jumping out at me. So you would be happier if someone described them as ugly? Do you think that if any of them were ugly, that a companion would have transmitted that word in any form? Look at Umm Salama. She declined the Prophet's (saw) invitation for marriage because she was of age and already had 4 children!
	A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah http://www.sunnipath.com http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/ http://www.pt-go.com/
	IP Logged

Andalus Moderator Group Joined: 12 October 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1187	Posted: 23 January 2007 at 9:47pm
	*Originally posted by senekerk* OK so he married to form bonds with Arab tribes, and he did not really want to marry and sex wasn't an issue so why did he marry beautiful women? So he should only choose ugly women? The leaders of other tribes should only offer ugly women? Senekerk, I am not sure what your particular trouble is?
	A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah http://www.sunnipath.com http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/ http://www.pt-go.com/
	IP Logged

Andalus Moderator Group Joined: 12 October 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1187	Posted: 23 January 2007 at 9:50pm
	*Originally posted by senekerk* Sign reader, i can not afford to hold a resentment over what you said I admit I was pickyunise and trite concerning the word beautiy please accept my apologies. i must let my hurt feelings go and let allah handle the situation Regards Kay senekerk, some may seem to be quick to label you as a troll or missionary, etc. This is due to some of the ugly bashing that takes place in the internet. Please do keep up your investigation, and your questions, and keep your heart open to what you may find. May God guid us all.
	A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah http://www.sunnipath.com http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/ http://www.pt-go.com/
	IP Logged

DavidC Senior Member Joined: 20 September 2001 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2211	Posted: 23 January 2007 at 10:06pm
	Look at Qu'ran 18:7-18:8 in the Asad translation and also in the Yusuf Ali translation. The differences indicate we might benefit from going back to the Arabic on this use of 'beauty'. It could also be a idiomatic use too. In American culture we always call brides and babies beautiful even though that might not be an objectve truth . Perhaps the authors of the hadiths were simply being polite.
	David C.
	IP Logged

Sign*Reader Senior Member Joined: 02 November 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3352	Posted: 23 January 2007 at 10:13pm
	*Originally posted by senekerk* Sign reader, i can not afford to hold a resentment over what you said I admit I was pickyunise and trite concerning the word beautiy please accept my apologies. i must let my hurt feelings go and let allah handle the situation Regards Kay My dear Kay: I am sorry that it had to come to this kind of exchange between us. My comment was not meant to hurt you at all rather to set a threshold i.e., what is the limit in this journey of yours into the house where Muhammad (pbuh) happens to be the King of hearts. And no body enters unless heart and mind is in absolute alignment in reverence of the owner of the realm; meaning that he would be dearer than our parents, children and our spouses cuz he came back from the presence of Allah to complete the message for us and cleared the path by traveling each aspect of it in its perfection and selflessness of character. He was a man like no other man that in Quraan 33:56-Lo! Allah and his angels shower blessings on the Prophet. O ye who believe! Ask blessings on him and salute him with worthty salutations. The masses are blind being with 20/20 sight, they have the visions for the Almighty cuz of him. Knowing what sacrifices he made that transformed the companions from the barbarians to the elite of humanity. If you read about the details of his wives they became the delegates for him towards the woman folks of the community cuz they would learn his character and qualities first hand and transmit and train others after he was gone. The last but not the least thing about entering in the house of Islam starts with the Kalima: which starts with la ilaha meaning there is no god, why does it start like that cuz you would need to wipe the slate clean before from your heart and mind that also includes your selfish ego, next is illiah but Allah and Muhammad is His messenger. These are the stages you need to understand. Peace to you
	Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
	IP Logged

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