Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

Current Events
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Politics : Current Events
Message Icon Topic: Is Barack Obama Muslim? Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 8 Next >>
Author Message
Sawtul Khilafah
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 July 2006
Location: Peru
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 623
Quote Sawtul Khilafah Replybullet Posted: 25 January 2007 at 11:32am

Originally posted by Patty

Why so hostile?  You must be terribly burdened down with all that hate you continue to carry for others.  God/Allah told us to "love our neighbors".  I don't see you doing that.  I won't debate you, because you are consumed with hatred for anything and anyone not Muslim.  I will pray for you every day, so that you can know joy and happiness, and learn that not everyone who is non-Muslim is a horrible killing machine.  May Allah reach into your heart and remove the hurt and the hate from it.

Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. (Quran 48:29)

And Im happy that you admit that the people I was speaking against are non-Muslims (in other words, apostates).

I was also not spreading "hate", but simpy telling the truth about the hypocrasy and double standards of those who claim to be Muslims but who ally with the enemies of Islam against true Muslims. I have no problem with Jews and Christians who truely believe in the Torah and the Bible.

 



Edited by Sawtul Khilafah
IP IP Logged
Patty
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 September 2001
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2382
Quote Patty Replybullet Posted: 25 January 2007 at 1:24pm

"I have no problem with Jews and Christians who truely believe in the Torah and the Bible."

I'm happy to hear that.  I mistakenly thought you hated everyone who was not exactly like you.  My mistake.

Peace to You, Sawtul Khilafah

Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.
IP IP Logged
Israfil
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 September 2003
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3984
Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 25 January 2007 at 8:08pm

Patty,

I'm not trying to "water down" the negative experiences Catholics and other christians have faced in the 60's my point in my earlier comment was that politically as well as socially a man who is both Black and Muslim (Two properties which have a pre-existing stigma anyway) would not be accepted by most Americans. For one, the presidential canidate would have so much of an overwhelming expectancy from both sides White and Black that it would be hard (not impossible) to acheive American voter support. Although he may be popular among some progressive people in American society, the traditionalist and neo-conservatives would not accept him either way.

If he were Muslim and would declare that openly conservatives would have a field day, because to elect a Muslim for president one would offer the thought that such a canidate would not show resolve in the face of "Islamic terrorism." They would pressupose that this canidate would favor the retrieval of Palestinian territory over Zionist Philosophies of "rightful ownership." All these speculative thoughts would run pre-existing before the race starts (assuming if Barack would openly declare his religion as Islam).

What I'm saying Patty is America is not ready for change. We have been goverened and ran by old white men who are Christian for so long that the public has been programmed to believe this is the norm. When we want change especially in the political field it must be those progressive intellectuals to make those changes. I like Obama I'd like to see his views reagrding other domestic issues more indepth. But I also like Hilary Clinton because she brings with her a legacy which Bill Clinton established. To me, Bill Clinton was the "First Black President." I like what he did during the Palestinian/Israeli situation where he got Arafat and Sharon together to talk. I'd like to see more of that.

IP IP Logged
Sign*Reader
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 November 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3352
Quote Sign*Reader Replybullet Posted: 25 January 2007 at 9:22pm
Originally posted by Patty

Hmmm, I remember a man in the past who was running for President.  He never hesitated to state proudly that he was a Roman Catholic.  And never before had a Catholic been elected to the Presidency.  His name was John F. Kennedy!


My dear Patty:
JFK's election wasn't easy despite having all the assistance factors and money available to him. Without, Johnson and Daly's role history would have been different!
And then what was the end of all that?
 


Edited by Sign*Reader
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
IP IP Logged
Patty
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 September 2001
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2382
Quote Patty Replybullet Posted: 26 January 2007 at 5:09am
Originally posted by Sign*Reader

Originally posted by Patty

Hmmm, I remember a man in the past who was running for President.  He never hesitated to state proudly that he was a Roman Catholic.  And never before had a Catholic been elected to the Presidency.  His name was John F. Kennedy!


My dear Patty:
JFK's election wasn't easy despite having all the assistance factors and money available to him. Without, Johnson and Daly's role history would have been different!
And then what was the end of all that?
 

I'm 62 years old.....I remember the entire campaign and know full well how difficult it was.  There was many a fight within families over John Kennedy's decision to run for president.  Some of the wounds from that election never healed.  Hard as it was for JFK, he DID win and broke ground for others of different faiths than Protestant.  That was my main point.  And that happened over 40 years ago.  So imagine what could happen today.  We (Americans) need to learn to vote for the most highly qualified person.  We must look beyond race, religion, and culture.  The President has to be one of very high morals, extremely intelligent....as well as possessing common sense, high ethical standards, fairness towards everyone..........AND SOMEONE WITH A PLAN FOR THE FUTURE OF AMERICA AND THE REST OF THE WORLD.  The world is getting smaller and smaller, and we need, rather we MUST have a president who will endeavor to treat each county with equal respect and value.  Nothing less with do.

I have to disagree with any idea of that person being Hillary Clinton.  I go back to the moral issues, and she does not (imo) fill the bill on that one.  I could never accept her and her pro-abortion beliefs.  Sorry, but I don't believe in murdering the most innocent little ones of all.  Also, her husband was an adulterous scumbag!  I don't understand how a woman could continue to live as his wife after all he has done to betray their marriage vows.  Perhaps I'm a prude, but I feel like I feel.  Call it women's intuition, but I don't trust her.  I would like to see a woman in the White House someday, IF she is truly the most highly qualified.  Hillary definitely is not.  I honestly believe she would sell her soul to win this election.  Okay, I'm done with my rant now.  I just can't tolerate this woman who is willing to stay with such a whore chasing dog, a real phoney, as Bill C.  He would never have been the President to me.  He was a disgrace!  Wheee, I feel better now.

 

Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.
IP IP Logged
Whisper
Male Other
Senior Member
Senior  Member


Joined: 25 July 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4752
Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 26 January 2007 at 11:46am

We (Americans) need to learn to vote for the most highly qualified person.  We must look beyond race, religion, and culture.  The President has to be one of very high morals, extremely intelligent....as well as possessing common sense, high ethical standards, fairness towards everyone..........AND SOMEONE WITH A PLAN FOR THE FUTURE OF AMERICA AND THE REST OF THE WORLD.  The world is getting smaller and smaller, and we need, rather we MUST have a president who will endeavor to treat each county with equal respect and value.  Nothing less with do.

I love 2007. Patty has started to talk my lingo!

Call it women's intuition, but I don't trust her.

Ten out of ten for that, my friend. As they say, you can't put your finger on that, but ., . . .

IP IP Logged
Whisper
Male Other
Senior Member
Senior  Member


Joined: 25 July 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4752
Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 26 January 2007 at 11:51am

At the end of the day, whatever faith Obama or anyone else, for that matter, follows would hardly matter in the system we have at hand. Nothing will change for the best of the Americans or the world at large as long as the people don't come to be the real base of power.

Today, the money and vested interests are the power base.

Not the people of the United States.

IP IP Logged
Israfil
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 September 2003
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3984
Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 26 January 2007 at 1:36pm

Patty you are showing apologist attitudes that I shared back in 2003 on religions. There is no such thing as equal treatment. If you believe there is then (for example) why don't girls share the same locker room with boys? We as people of society have been trained to think in terms of what is ethically acceptable or not. Patty you showed it by saying you wouldn't vote for a person that is pro-abortion. Either way the person who will be elected will not exact policies that are "equal" to all because the title of the president is to be a leader in the best interest of the people. The people don't always agree as you know this.

Patty you said:

"The President has to be one of very high morals, extremely intelligent....as well as possessing common sense, high ethical standards, fairness towards everyone..........AND SOMEONE WITH A PLAN FOR THE FUTURE OF AMERICA AND THE REST OF THE WORLD.  The world is getting smaller and smaller, and we need, rather we MUST have a president who will endeavor to treat each county with equal respect and value.  Nothing less with do."

This is a good comment but its still an idealist way of the descriptive way of thinking. You are saying the the president "ought" to be moral and intelligent. But who decides morality? Among conservatives an atheist, pro-abortion president would be consider immoral and unethical for his personal beliefs but how do we know that such a person would not be a great leader. In my belief an atheist president would definitely fulfill the part of the consitution of secularism (Separation of Church and State).

Also we cannot always treat each country equally especially if there are certain entities in specific countries that have sub-groups that wish to do us harm. So should an ideal president deal with a Hamas government the same way he/she does with a Norwegian government? The tricky issue with political ethics is that the result exposes our extreme ideals and values. If Barack Obama is our future president first I'd like to acknowledge this moment and say this man made history in being the first minority (and Black man) as president. Second, I hope he can enforce fair policies. By fairness I mean what is due by other entities who deserve it.

I hope the president focuses on domestic issue. At this point my attitude is "let the world destroy itself." Terrorism is more prevelant here in the streets than in Afghanistan. I agree Patty that this president should be intelligent but not emphasizing academia since being academic does not make one automatically intelligent. Rather, a sense of understanding of how the world is and how to be versatile. How to adapt to bad situations and able to make conclusions. I'm tired of religious presidents. I'm tired of religions in politics period. We see even in Islamic countries that religion within politics fail. Those types of governments fail. Their economy fails.

A change in governmental policies starts now and hopefully these prospects have what it takes.



Edited by Israfil
IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 8 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com