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Interfaith Dialogue
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Whisper
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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 12 January 2007 at 1:53am

If I could I would make DavidC and Servetus have 6 Stars.

I didn't dish out just the Five Stars, he has himself been a bit too kind with the helping! You are aik dum fit on both David and Serv -  as we would also say about your Indian story.

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Patty
 
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Quote Patty Replybullet Posted: 13 January 2007 at 4:50pm

To Whisper, 

You posted this:

"My friend, always had the fondest for Christians all my life. I won't bore with the reasons. But I have lead mass at Lahore Cathedral, in my early years."

I am quite curious about your statement here.  I know very well my Catholic religion.  If you lead mass/celebrated mass, that means you had to be a priest, as only a Catholic priest can celebrate mass.  A lector can read scriptures (not the Gospel though), and an extraordinary minister of the Eucharist can help administer Holy Communion to the faithful, but ONLY a priest can "lead mass".  Could you tell me what you meant by this please?  Thank you for your response.

Here's a site regarding Lahore Cathedral in Pakistan which shows how Catholics/Christians have/are suffering too.  God help us all.

http://members4.boardhost.com/acnaus/msg/1143428063.html

Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.
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Whisper
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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 14 January 2007 at 12:45am

"My friend, always had the fondest for Christians all my life. I won't bore with the reasons. But I have lead mass at Lahore Cathedral, in my early years."

I am quite curious about your statement here.  I know very well my Catholic religion.  If you lead mass/celebrated mass, that means you had to be a priest, as only a Catholic priest can celebrate mass.

My friend, it was a simple and an innocent affair. We were invited to visit the Lahore Catherdral, around Christmas, a few decades ago. Somehow, we were delayed and reached there when the service had started.

The Padre asked me if I would lead Psalm 143. I was pleased, nay, flattered. I did and the essence of that experience has remained with me, always.

Must thank you for putting me on the right path. I stand corrected and have withdrawn all my cliams on Pappacy!

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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 14 January 2007 at 1:00am

Here's a site regarding Lahore Cathedral in Pakistan which shows how Catholics/Christians have/are suffering too.  God help us all.

http://members4.boardhost.com/acnaus/msg/1143428063.html

Thank you for the link.

The situation has turned not just sad but, in some corners, plain simple ugly.

The sub-continentals are by nature exceptionally laid back and peace loving people. On the whole poverty and the daily rigors of life bind them. It hardly matters who worships who or where. I have seen Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Jens, Buddhists and the whole range of religions and cults trying to find whatever joy they can just in each other in communities, which have remained mixed for a few millennia.

You would find Hindus, Sikhs and Christians celebrating Eid with the Muslims and the Muslims joining them, without any reservations, for Divali, Christmas or any other festivals that come there way. Any other forms of entertainment are almost non-existent.

It’s a different situation from the Catholic – Protestant divide that our friends, in the west, tend to hold for an easy reference. Let’s have a very simple example; at Nizam Uddin Aulia (Delhi) you will find more Hindus, Sikhs and Christians offering their tributes than the Muslims.

Mostly, all treat a place of worship as a place for worship.

Or, let me rephrase, mostly they used to treat a place of worship as a place of worship – be it out of respect or, in most cases, just out of fear of annoying some god or deity.

The sub-continent holds an exceptionally deep tradition of saints, scholars and Sufis of all shades and of a good few thousand years of vintage.

Can we be charitable enough to stop and think, just for a few minutes, that how could such a social fabric, woven by strong bonds of village poverty, come to be so torn apart?

 

Could it be for:

The spate of violence that plagued the Christian community during our visit was sparked by the outrage that spread across the Islamic world at the publication of the cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed.

Unable to express their rage at the West, militant Muslims turned their fire on the local Christian community instead.

The article is great for Fund raising, but it's a bit lacking on some straight simple facts. I know, it will be futile placing the following facts for Patty, but I just need to keep the record straight for the Forum:


Relative newcomers to this part of Asia, the Christians are judged to be guilty by association

The first church was established in the sub-continent in 1533.

Up to 85 percent of the Christian population live in villages,

Where does the rest of the 85% community live?

In palaces vacated by Saddam Hussain?

mostly as “bonded labour” entirely dependent on urban-based landlords

Isn't it the same for the rest of the humanity in the 3rd world? What has a socio-economic ill got to do with any religion?

When job vacancies arise, preference automatically goes to Muslims.

Sorry, absolutely wrong number. Almost all the vacancies go to folks favoured by Mush’s lackeys.

When the Christians do get jobs – mostly as farm labourers, domestic cooks and cleaners and road sweepers – pay is woefully poor.

And, the rest of the population gets some Silver Spoon Service at the local Inter-Continentals?

Child labour is commonplace – parents can’t afford education and daren’t spare them from the workplace for fear of the landlord docking their pay.

This doesn’t apply to the rest of the exploited millions?

Lacking identity cards and the right to vote,

Now, I am forced to call a spade a spade - absolute rubbish. Every single citizen is required BY LAW and is issued a CNIC. I have over 400,000 Masihi followers, in that country, and each one of them holds an Id Card. And, anyone with an Id card can vote.

they have virtually no political representation.

Really? They have special allocation of seats in the National Assembly. But then, perhaps, you are right. Who has any Political Representation in a dictatorship supported by the State Department?

Nor do they have any legitimate access to health care.
My friend, who else does?

Little did we realise it but as we spoke to the congregation, churches elsewhere in the country were being torched by militants.

Would you please tell us How many churches were torched in the history of that country prior to US invasions of Muslim lands?



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Patty
 
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Quote Patty Replybullet Posted: 14 January 2007 at 11:23am

Whisper wrote:

"My friend, it was a simple and an innocent affair. We were invited to visit the Lahore Catherdral, around Christmas, a few decades ago. Somehow, we were delayed and reached there when the service had started.

The Padre asked me if I would lead Psalm 143. I was pleased, nay, flattered. I did and the essence of that experience has remained with me, always.

Must thank you for putting me on the right path. I stand corrected and have withdrawn all my cliams on Pappacy!"

Thanks so much for your answer, Whisper.  It makes perfect sense, and I must tell you I think it was wonderful that the priest asked you to lead in the recitation of the 143rd Psalm....and equally beautiful that you agreed to do so.  But ME putting YOU on the "right path?"  Sometimes you can really be a hoot, Whisper!!   I have always known that I am not the brightest bulb in the lamp.  it was kind of you to add that sentence though.

As such, I will decline your request to explain the details from the cathedral in Pakistan.  I am definitely not qualified.  Perhaps Servetus or David C. can respond.

God's Peace to You, Whisper.

Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.
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Whisper
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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 15 January 2007 at 7:10am

Thanks so much for your answer, Whisper.  It makes perfect sense, and I must tell you I think it was wonderful that the priest asked you to lead in the recitation of the 143rd Psalm .... and equally beautiful that you agreed to do so. 

Patty, how could I ever refuse such an honour and offered with so much love?

But ME putting YOU on the "right path?"  Sometimes you can really be a hoot, Whisper!! I have always known that I am not the brightest bulb in the lamp.  it was kind of you to add that sentence though.

Feliz Anio Nuevo!

As such, I will decline your request to explain the details from the cathedral in Pakistan. I am definitely not qualified. Perhaps Servetus or David C. can respond.

I will be in Pakistan next week and specially post on this issue.

 

Paz y luz

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Quote Patty Replybullet Posted: 15 January 2007 at 10:08am

I will be in Pakistan next week and specially post on this issue.

 

Paz y luz

 

 

That's wonderful!  I will be waiting to read about your visit there.

 

Pax Domini

Patty

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Servetus
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Quote Servetus Replybullet Posted: 23 January 2007 at 12:51pm

Thanks everyone, for the comments.  DavidC and I are Indian brothers in the same kayak.  Especially when I am behaving myself, I am pleased to be associated with him.

Serv

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