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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Proof from Bible that Jesus never died Post Reply Post New Topic
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superme
 
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Quote superme Replybullet Posted: 10 January 2007 at 11:15pm

Originally posted by Arab

Since Jesus is in heaven, there are no poor, so he doesnt have to pay anything since he cant. And Allah knows best.
 

Brother if you read that ayah it says: hath enjoined upon me prayer and almsgiving so long as I remain alive, (19:31) 

If he does not pray and pay zakat than he is dead. If he is alive than his condition (being alive) is the same state as every other Prophets, which is Islamic creed. Are all the Prophets now in the conscious state? Rosulallah met them all in Mi'raj, did he not? 

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Quote Arab Replybullet Posted: 11 January 2007 at 1:58am
Originally posted by Mauri



Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

I was in the spirit can have several meanings. Im sure not everyone who reads this understands he was dreaming.

Originally posted by Mauri

 

I am stunned to hear that you don't think the Quran is inspired by God!

What Im saying is that it wasnt an inspirational revelation (that God inspires people to start writing). It was a literal verbal revelation. God put his words into Mohammeds mouth through the angel Gabriel. God tells him "Say" Mohammed says "Say". "He is Allah the One and Only." Mohammed says "He is Allah the One and Only". God tells him (through the angel Gabriel) "He begetteth not nor is He begotten". Mohammed says "He begetteth not nor is He begotten". "And there is none like unto Him". And Mohammed says it. This wasnt the case with the Bible as you know. This is what I ment.

Originally posted by Mauri

You are obviously just parroting what you have heard someone say without checking the facts for yourself.  Every religion has scholars who expound on the meaning of their holy books.  Surely, you have heard at least heard of the Jews' Talmad.  And, the reason there are so many versions of the Christian Bible is because these scholars don't all agree.  Similarly, there are disagreements between the versions of the Quran--you even declared one to be of lesser quality which bmzsp says is one of the best!  Muslims, to my knowledge, do not have the equivalent of a Strong's Concordance, which gives the original word which was translated into English and defines the original word for those who know that the meanings of words change over a course of time.

As for the translations, the translations are not infallable, the original Arabic is. And we have it, so anyone can go back and check.As for the Christian scholars, yes you have them for interpretation, but where does there interpretation come from? Who taught them? And who taugh those who taugh those who taught them? Did Jesus? He never read the NT we have today so how could he explain it? So it wasnt Jesus, who did? This is my point, they interpret it by what they think it means, Jesus never told thim that look this verse is reffering to so and so, and this means so and so. The Quran, we were told by the prophet peace be upon him and his companions may Allah be pleased with them what the verses mean etc.

Originally posted by Mauri

Okay, I have to ask.  How would you describe God?  Do you really think He is human? 

There is none like unto Him. Far exhalted, and to if you want to understand more just read His 99 names/attributes.

 

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Quote Mauri Replybullet Posted: 11 January 2007 at 10:16am
I was in the spirit can have several meanings. Im sure not everyone who reads this understands he was dreaming.

Everything can have several meanings.  I'm quite confident that never does everyone get the same understanding from reading anything.


What Im saying is that it wasnt an inspirational revelation (that God inspires people to start writing). It was a literal verbal revelation.

I hope that means that you recognize that God is not limited in how He gives revelation.  I take it that you do value the verbal revelation over spiritual encounters with angels, visions, etc.  I wouldn't take issue with that.  Personally, I prefer seeing over hearing, but I wouldn't argue with anyone who prefers hearing over seeing. A good teacher will teach to the pupil's strength--that is, use visual illustrations for the visual learner but speeches/lectures for the auditory learner.


As for the translations, the translations are not infallable, the original Arabic is.
The written word is a symbol, as is the spoken word.  Even though someone translates it into a language with which you are familiar, when you read or hear it, you, again, translate it according to your understanding.  That is how not everyone has the same understanding even though the say the same words.


There is none like unto Him. Far exhalted, and to if you want to understand more just read His 99 names/attributes.

I understand that.  I was asking what that meant to you.  It sounds (from what you said about the passage from Isaiah) like you either think He is human or that He cannot relate to humans.  I didn't know which, so I asked you to clarify your understanding. 


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Quote Arab Replybullet Posted: 11 January 2007 at 11:12am
So you do believe that the Bible was inspired by God? As for the passage of Isaiah, im saying God doesnt take a razor and shave for people. If He wanted there hair to fall, he orders it and it falls.
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Quote Mauri Replybullet Posted: 11 January 2007 at 12:30pm
So you do believe that the Bible was inspired by God?
Yes. Once you understand the Quran, you will be able to see its truths everywhere you look.  That's the reason it teaches you to learn about creation. The problem is not a lack of God's hand at work, but of man not being able to see God's hand in a work--man not understanding what he is looking at or how God works.

As for the passage of Isaiah, im saying God doesnt take a razor and shave for people. If He wanted there hair to fall, he orders it and it falls.
And, if God wanted man to fly, He would have made man with wings, huh?
Or, if God wanted you to be a man, He would have commanded it, and "pop" there you are--a man....no time in your mother's womb?
And, if God wants you to be in heaven, He would have put you there to start with, huh?

Sorry, I don't believe in magic.  I don't think God wants us to think He is a magician.  If He did, He wouldn't bother to reveal anything to us.


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Quote Arab Replybullet Posted: 11 January 2007 at 12:38pm
I get mixed messages from you  what do you mean once you understand the Quran, your not a Muslim. No God isnt a magician but there are certain things which arent befitting in His magesty that He should do. Shaving the hair of the legs is an off limit, it is disrespectful. Both the Bible we have today and the QUran cant be from God because they are different. As Muslims we have to believe in the bible, unfortanetly it has been corrupted. The Bible and the Quran are different, read my post bible or Quran facts dont lie for some of there differences.
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Quote Mauri Replybullet Posted: 11 January 2007 at 1:43pm
I get mixed messages from you  what do you mean once you understand the Quran, your not a Muslim.

What??? Is that what you "read"?  Look again.
I said,
Once you understand the Quran, you will be able to see its truths everywhere you look.
Are you correcting me--telling me that once you understand the Quran, you're not a Muslim?  If so, I disagree.  I think that's when you become more of a Muslim than ever!

No God isnt a magician but there are certain things which arent befitting in His magesty that He should do.

That reminds me of when I was young and a friend told how babies are made.  I swore that was wrong because I knew without a doubt that my mother would never do anything like that.  (I found out later that the friend was right.)


Shaving the hair of the legs is an off limit, it is disrespectful.
That is exactly the reason I swore my mother would never do what my friend said.  I thought it was a heck of lot worse than just disrespectful, though. 

Both the Bible we have today and the QUran cant be from God because they are different.
Why not?  Because God only speaks Arabic?
Or, because you see a contradiction between them? 
If it's the latter, remember, you just posted what you "saw" in my post which is different from what I said and totally opposite of what I believe.  You "saw" something that was not there--a contradiction (to what I meant and my belief)  and even to the words I used.  That should prove to you that contradictions that don't exist can seem to be very real.

If I said, "the child in me wanted to fight", you might assume I am pregnant with child....or, maybe swallowed a child whole...or any number of things.  Then, if someone told you differently, you would see a contradiction--not between what I said and what the other person said, but between what you "heard" me say and what I meant.

...read my post bible or Quran facts dont lie for some of there differences.
I know they seem different.  I've seen contradictions within just the Bible, itself......as I have within the Quran, itself.  But, the contradictions disappeared as my understanding grew.  Now, I see no contradictions within either or between the two.   
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Quote Arab Replybullet Posted: 11 January 2007 at 1:52pm
by believe in the bible I mean the one given to Jesus.
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