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Interfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: Proof from Bible that Jesus never died Post Reply Post New Topic
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ChristinaCris
 
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Quote ChristinaCris Replybullet Posted: 29 March 2007 at 10:00am

ARAB

you have not answered my point. my point was that there are many suni moslem scholars who say that according to Quran christ is not ascended. (here under is copy of some comments of other members from your own forum)

for example:

"Professor Mahmud Shaltut, former Mufti of Egypt and ex-Rector of al-Azhar University, Cairo, writes:

i. "There is no authority in the Quran or the Sunna which can satisfy the heart upon the belief that Jesus was taken up to heaven with his body and that he is still alive there and that he shall descend therefrom to earth in the last days."

(Al-Fatawa, published by Al-Idara al-‘Ama lil-Saqafat al-Islamiyya bil-Azhar, pp. 52-58)

ii. "The Quranic verses in this connection indicate that God had promised Jesus that He would cause him to die at the appointed time, and elevate him to Himself, and protect him from the disbelievers. This promise has been fulfilled. His enemies could not kill him or crucify him; instead, God caused him to die at the end of his appointed term and elevated him to Himself."

=============

Shaikh Zakariya Idrees Oseni World League Journal, the monthly organ of the Rabita al-Islami, published from Makka in Saudi Arabia writes:

“Whatever be the case, the Islamic belief is that Jesus died a natural death after God had saved him from crucifixion. The stories of his ascension after he had been saved from crucifixion, which we find in some Arabic books, are obviously taken from Christian sources and should not be taken very seriously by Muslims with discerning minds.”

==========
ONE OF THE GREATEST SCHOLARS of Bibles Dr. Constantine von Tischendorf, who aft having personally examined the original hand written copies of the oldest available Four Gospels hv quoted:

“tht the texts for the physical ascension of Jesus to heaven or Jesus being carried by the angels to heaven, are lacking in these ancient documents. The texts tht are found within the published copies of the circulating gospels on the subject of the physical ascension of Jesus hv been added centuries later
"

=================

Arab!!!

Now my question is:

1- Do you think that you know Quran and Hadith more/better than aforementioned sunni scholars of Azhar university, who has given FATWA that christ is not ascended???

2- Do you think that above mentioned suni scholars from Azhar university and Saudia Makka are IMPOSTERS ???

3- If you tell aforementioned scholars liars and imposters, I am 100% sure if I asked them about you, they will tell you a liar and imposter (sorry I do not mean this but I have to expalin my point). In this way the point will remain undecided.

4-Personally I realize that If you claim that you or your teachers has higher scholarship that the scholars of Azhar Univeisty; then your claim will be totally unacceptable to many and me too.

During my university studies in comparative religion, I have read a lot lot about this subject. I can provide u many many references. but for the time being I think following one link will be enough for you and for other people who are interested in this subject.

Though that link has many/long pages but is worth reading.

http://groups.google.com/group/PZSDFTP/web/was-jesus-son-of- mary-ascended

Please answer me just the questions I have asked and donot walk arround here there.

God Bless

_________________
I was bold in the pursuit of knowledge, never fearing to follow truth and reason to whatever results they led."
--Thomas Jefferson (1812)  



Edited by ChristinaCris
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pauline35
 
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Quote pauline35 Replybullet Posted: 29 March 2007 at 11:07am
Arab said : Also the Quran states that Mohammed is the seal of the prophets, Khatam ul nabiyeen in Arabic is also more ethen clear that it means LAST. Notice, you'll find no Arab who follows Ahmadiya because he knows the language and that its impossible for any prophet to be after prophet Mohammed.

Agreed. My conjecture is that Ahmadiya sees Islam as corrigendum based on his lame conjectural also so-called irrefutable evidence.
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minuteman
 
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Quote minuteman Replybullet Posted: 29 March 2007 at 1:13pm

 

  The matter under discussion here seems to be about the living Isa a.s. and about his coming back to the world a second time to correct the ills of this world. That is not possible as it seems that he has died a natural death at the age of about 120 years. That is written in a hadith (saying) of the prophet Muhammad (in peace).

 Now please see this hadith which was posted by a friend here (perhaps arab). this Hadith also proves that the old old Isa a.s. will not come back but some one in his power or spirit will come. the real Isa will not come. Please see and comment:

 

Also in the hadith the prophet said:

Abu Huraira reported that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: By Him in Whose hand is my life, the son of Mary (may peace be upon him) will soon descend among you as a just judge. He will break crosses kill swine and abolish Jizya, and the wealth will pour forth to such an extent that no one will accept it. (Sahih Muslim, Vol. 1, p. 92)

In this Hadith, the prophet told his companions that son of Maryam will descend amongst them. But he did not do so. Note the word "Among You". So, this word "you" means something else.

Then it is written that son of Maryam will judge with justice the conflicting matters of the Ummah. He will break crosses. This breaking of crosses has a special meaning and not a literal meaning. Son of Maryam will not go around to break the crosses.

Then it is said that he will kill the swine. It is also not literal. It has some other meaning which every one understands and it is being explained by the scholars in their books. It is hoped that Isa son of Maryam will not really kill any swine. He may never go near a swine.

So, my friends, if coming Isa will not break any crosses and he will not kill any swine and he will not descend among the Sahabah (companions) then we are free to think about him. Who will be He? It is possible that Isa will also not be the same person who was an Israeli prophet of Allah.

When we have translated everything sensibly in this Hadith then only Isa son of Maryam is left in the Hadith. So, why not we should try to translate that word too? Specially when the scholars are telling us that he has not gone up to the sky and that he has died a natural death.

 

 

If any one is bad some one must suffer
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pauline35
 
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Quote pauline35 Replybullet Posted: 30 March 2007 at 2:22am
Dear Minuteman, noted your second paragraph above is plausible translation. According to Buddhist, the Buddha Gautama did say that there will be another Buddha born again after him. Similarly, there will be another Jesus (perhaps) born again to this world but that Jesus will not be of the same look or same person. This means the messager will re-appear again. If we translate the Jesus as Messenger, we get the answer.

The messenger did not die but will appear again if Allah's message is not followed. Islam sealed Prophet Muhammad as the last messenger to disseminate Allah's message. However, it holds no confirmation that there shall be no more messenger coming to this world. It only deems neccessary when the time has come when people deny the righteous teaching of Allah. That will be the time for another Messiah(Jesus) to appear again. This time the Messiah will perform the miracles similar to what Jesus did.    

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ChristinaCris
 
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Quote ChristinaCris Replybullet Posted: 30 March 2007 at 4:41am

Originally posted by pauline35

Arab said : Also the Quran states that Mohammed is the seal of the prophets, Khatam ul nabiyeen in Arabic is also more ethen clear that it means LAST. Notice, you'll find no Arab who follows Ahmadiya because he knows the language and that its impossible for any prophet to be after prophet Mohammed.

Agreed. My conjecture is that Ahmadiya sees Islam as corrigendum based on his lame conjectural also so-called irrefutable evidence.

================

I am sorry but your reply is totally irrelevant to the questions I have asked in my previous post. If some one asks you the direction of NY city, you are telling her the direction of Wash.

What is this? Are you just awaken up?

Every one know that according to suni moslems, mohammad is last prophets and seal of prophet. I have not asked any asked question about ahmadis. I know they have their own prophet.



Edited by ChristinaCris
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amah
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Quote amah Replybullet Posted: 30 March 2007 at 5:38am

Bismillahirrahmanirraheem

ChristinaCris /TOTHEPOINT / TRUTHZ  are all IDs belonging to the same person. This person has been banned for spamming, abusing and spreading falsehood in the name of Islam, kindly ignore him.



Edited by amah
Allah is Sufficient as a Walee (Protector) and Allah is Sufficient as a Naseer (Helper).
(Surah An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #45)
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saomai
 
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Quote saomai Replybullet Posted: 30 March 2007 at 5:49am
Originally posted by amah

Bismillahirrahmanirraheem

ChristinaCris /TOTHEPOINT / TRUTHZ  are all IDs belonging to the same person. This person has been banned for spamming, abusing and spreading falsehood in the name of Islam, kindly ignore him.

that's good to hear as I was becoming increasingly upset with some of the postings and noticing quite a similar line of thinking between these id's.  I'm sure they will try again.

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Quote amah Replybullet Posted: 30 March 2007 at 5:59am

paarsurrey,

kindly post your thoughts in the intrafaith section.



Edited by amah
Allah is Sufficient as a Walee (Protector) and Allah is Sufficient as a Naseer (Helper).
(Surah An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #45)
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