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Message Icon Topic: Why believe in Islam? Post Reply Post New Topic
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Sign*Reader
 
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Quote Sign*Reader Replybullet Posted: 16 January 2007 at 6:36pm
Originally posted by sgeorge5

I can not get this file into this website, but send me your email address and I will send to you the info.  I do not seem to know how to "cut & paste" here.  Be advised, that it is not in English.


Why can't you explain the contents of the file, if you know what it is



Edited by Sign*Reader
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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Quote Sign*Reader Replybullet Posted: 16 January 2007 at 9:44pm
Originally posted by Josh_345

I`m a Christain, and Islam doesent make any sense. (please dont be offended, leave if you might be :))
Anyways, I am a christain. I will admit i`m not the strongest Christain.

This composition of yours does not give any sign of great scholarship to be credible.
Who gave you the idea that IC board is place for your confessions?
From the looks of your writing it doesn't seem from a disciple of Jesus but some from dark and troubled soul crying for help.
Originally posted by Josh_345

I believe Islam was created by Satan, and he told Muhammed this.

The only way you can state with such certainty if Mr. Satan happens to be lurking in your heart or round about.
Originally posted by Josh_345


 Also Christainity makes more sense.
The Bible says Iseral would come back (I think it does im 99% sure) and Iseral is back.
Thats just my thoughts.

More bad English, You are giving the Christ a bad name; the tree is known by it's fruits. I see you are thinking with nothing to think with and this a fact for all readers to see. I hope and pray that some one knowledgeable intervenes and educates your troubled soul.


Edited by Sign*Reader
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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Patty
 
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Quote Patty Replybullet Posted: 19 January 2007 at 7:30am

I think after such a long period of time, that Mr. Joshua has left the building.  Too bad...he may have been learned some valuable information if he had remained patient and chosen to stay for awhile.

God's Peace.

Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.
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Quote yasha Replybullet Posted: 20 January 2007 at 3:22pm
Josh,

I've noticed that you've been attacked, somewhat, by various users.
So if you don't mind, I'll help you get started.

Originally posted by Arab

You see if Satan created Islam, which would Satan chose to create, a religion which propagates worshiping idols, or worshiping God alone? of course, idols.

An interesting question.  The answer would involve a study of Satan, his character, as presented in the bible.  And at best we would try and deduce what kind of 'religion' he would create and if Islam might qualify.  I invite you to list off the traits of Satan, according to Islam.  I'll provide a few points according to the bible.  Lets see if we can find Any common ground regarding this being. 

Here are a few points: (scriptures availble upon request)

1) Satan masquerades as an angel of light.
2) Satan is the great imitater.
3) Satan desires to be like God.

Therefore if Satan were to invent a religion, we might expect it to imitate God's religion, with an outward appearance of rightousness. 

Would he "propagate the worship of idols, or God alone".
I would say he would propage the worship of himself, and probably himself alone.  He would set set himself up as if he were God and require worship of him alone.


At the time of Mohammed most the Arabs were idol worshipers they worship almost 360 Gods. Than comes along Mohammed who proclaims that God is one who has no partners. That Jesus was the Christ, the Messiah, he was born a miraculous birth, he gave life to the dead by Gods permission, and his mother Marry was the most rightouse women that ever lived. That you must give charity. That you mustnt kill innocent people. That a smile is a form of charity. That alcohol is forbidden. That high manners and ethics are very important. Satan inspires this? Please, please, stop. All Muslims say before they start there prayer "I seek refuge in Allah from Satan". (Allah means God in arabic). Why on earth would Satan do this, its crazy.


If Satan were to do such a thing, it would be quite a deception wouldn't it?  I believe deception is a quality that Satan also posesses.

From a Christian point of view, Satan is defeated in Christ.  Therefore all Satan need do is prevent people from accepting the salvation offered by Christ.   With out Christ people are on their own.  And their sin will kill them, no matter how many good deeds they posess. 

Yasha,

2 Cor 11:14-15
14    And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
15    It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
(NIV)
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BMZ
 
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Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 20 January 2007 at 10:01pm

yasha,

Good to see you helping Josh.

As for "Why believe in Islam?", the answer is very simple. Islam leads us to the One God, the Lord Almighty. There is no adulteration in God and the Magnificience of God Almighty remains the Most High.

Some comments, in response:

From you: "An interesting question.  The answer would involve a study of Satan, his character, as presented in the bible.  And at best we would try and deduce what kind of 'religion' he would create and if Islam might qualify.  I invite you to list off the traits of Satan, according to Islam.  I'll provide a few points according to the bible.  Lets see if we can find Any common ground regarding this being."

Satan is not into the business of creating religions. Satan wants simply to lead people away from the Lord Almighty. Even Jesus was attcked by him. But Jesus kicked him out. So far the world has never heard of any religion created by Satan.  

From you; "Here are a few points: (scriptures availble upon request)

1) Satan masquerades as an angel of light.
2) Satan is the great imitater.
3) Satan desires to be like God.

Therefore if Satan were to invent a religion, we might expect it to imitate God's religion, with an outward appearance of rightousness."

Satan is neither an angel nor an ex-angel or light. He has his own powers and does not have to imitate. Satan's desire is to lead humanity away from God and that's what he is after. I don't think he has any desires to be like God for he knows God Almighty and His Powers well! He knows he was created and also knows that he can be destroyed. 

For more information on how Satan has been described as an evil, you will have to read and understand Qur'aan, which is the only Book that describes Satan's revolt against God and tells us how he became a sworn enemy of God after making sure he got a respite till the Judgement day.  Is there any account of that in the Bible?


From you: "If Satan were to do such a thing, it would be quite a deception wouldn't it?  I believe deception is a quality that Satan also posesses."

Satan has many qualities and his job is to mislead people and make them go astray, with whatever means he has.  

From you: "From a Christian point of view, Satan is defeated in Christ.  Therefore all Satan need do is prevent people from accepting the salvation offered by Christ. With out Christ people are on their own.  And their sin will kill them, no matter how many good deeds they posess."

Satan was never defeated and still remains fully active. Even Jesus Christ could not kill or destroy him. Sins, death, illnesses, bloodshed, deception, hate, wars, plundering and all evils continue. Nothing has changed. To say that Satan is defeated in Christ is void. People knew of a life hereafter several milleniums before Jesus. In fact, if you look at Jesus' 1-3 years of ministry, you can see what Satan did during that period and after Jesus was gone.

BMZ



 



Edited by bmzsp
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Quote yasha Replybullet Posted: 21 January 2007 at 8:21am


Satan is not into the business of creating religions. Satan wants simply to lead people away from the Lord Almighty. Even Jesus was attcked by him. But Jesus kicked him out. So far the world has never heard of any religion created by Satan.  

People are religious by nature.  They need to worship.  Redirecting their worship is how one is led away from the Lord.  If Satan's business is to lead people away from God, then he MUST be in the business of creating religions.  However the biblical perspective is quite clear on Satan desireing worship.

Matt 4:8-9
8    Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
9    "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."
(NIV)

Rev 13:4
4    Men worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, "Who is like the beast? Who can make war against him?"
(NIV)

Rev 13:13
13    And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men.
(NIV)


He has his own For more information on how Satan has been described as an evil, you will have to read and understand Qur'aan, which is the only Book that describes Satan's revolt against God and tells us how he became a sworn enemy of God after making sure he got a respite till the Judgement day.  Is there any account of that in the Bible?

The qur'ans story, which has a jewish origin, is not found in the bible.  There are only hints of Satan's fall, but enough.

For example, many under stand this to be referring to Satan.

Isa 14:12-15
12    How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!
13    You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain.
14    I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High."
15    But you are brought down to the grave, to the depths of the pit.
(NIV)

Pride was what began the fall.  In this we can at least agree.  But notice also the desire to be like God.  There is more if you are interested.


Satan was never defeated and still remains fully active. Even Jesus Christ could not kill or destroy him. Sins, death, illnesses, bloodshed, deception, hate, wars, plundering and all evils continue. Nothing has changed. To say that Satan is defeated in Christ is void. People knew of a life hereafter several milleniums before Jesus. In fact, if you look at Jesus' 1-3 years of ministry, you can see what Satan did during that period and after Jesus was gone.

As you may know, in Christianity it is through Christ, only, that one can be saved.  All Satan needs to do is keep people from believing the NT.  Islam, at present, it seems, teaches people to reject the gospel, which is to reject the forgiveness of sins, reject salvation, reject God.  This is why many Christian believe Islam to be Satanic in origin.  Satan in already defeated, it's just a matter of time.  Those in Christ are already saved.  All his effort is undone with Christ, that is why it is first priority to keep people from believing the good news.  If people try to lead good lives (as muslims are supposed to), yet reject salvation through Christ (which muslims do), then Satan is victorious in their lives.   But in Christ Satan is defeated.

Yasha.
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Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 21 January 2007 at 9:15pm

yasha,

From you: "People are religious by nature.  They need to worship.  Redirecting their worship is how one is led away from the Lord.  If Satan's business is to lead people away from God, then he MUST be in the business of creating religions.  However the biblical perspective is quite clear on Satan desireing worship."

Not necessarily. To lead people away is Satan's business. satan just does not want people to obey and listen to God. He deceived Adam and Eve and tricked them both into eating the fruit. All religions believe in this story. 

From you: "Matt 4:8-9
8    Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
9    "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."
(NIV)"

Ok, I can accept that according to the story which tells me that the temptation was specially and specifically organised and arranged by God for Jesus and the Spirit led him into the desert to be tested by Satan. I don't know why God had to test him after declaring so boldly and loudly from heavens "This is my son with whom I am pleased." I think God should not have done that if He were pleased with his son. If I am pleased with my son, I would not push him into difficulties and trials.

Anyway, Satan asked him to worship him but Jesus answered,"It is written:'Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.' " This is a huge statement, don't you think, keeping in mind the word only?

And I think the above statement should have reverberated throughout the Bible but unfortunately, it did not. Why was that so and who did the diluting of that statement? I am not saying that it was done 100% by Satan. What do you think?

I do not discuss anything from the chapter of Revelations, as it's John's own dream, vision or thoughts. It's his own story and the chapter had been in and out of the Bible quite a few times according to Christian scholars and historians but finally was left in. Hence I have no comments.

From you: "The qur'ans story, which has a jewish origin, is not found in the bible.  There are only hints of Satan's fall, but enough."

All the Scriptures, mostly have the Hebrew and the Jewish origin. The OT of the Christians is a 100% copy of the Jewish Holy Scriptures, with quite  afew changes made, where necessary but the interpretation done is entirely different and the funny part is that the Jews are not aware of.  

From you: "As you may know, in Christianity it is through Christ, only, that one can be saved."

Yes, I am aware of that but one must know that according to Isaiah and other Prophets, one can only be saved by the Saviour only, who is the Lord Almighty. And remember that the words of the Lord Almighty never change. Whatever God Almighty uttered through Isaiah, uttered in all Integrity sworn by God Almighty Himself.

How did that change from the Lord Almighty to Jesus? Was it posssibly the work of Satan? 

From you: "All Satan needs to do is keep people from believing the NT.  Islam, at present, it seems, teaches people to reject the gospel, which is to reject the forgiveness of sins, reject salvation, reject God." 

I don't think so. Satan does not want people to believe in any book that has got anything to do with God.

Islam does not reject the teachings of Jesus, for Jesus taught the words of God from the Torah, spoke about God and asked people to worship only God Almighty with all their herats, minds and souls. Who then asked people to worship Jesus? Satan?

Islam does not reject forgiveness of sins, salvation and God. Islam says,"believe only in God, the Lord Almighty, have full faith and trust in the Lord Almighty and one would have one's sins forgiven and one would have salvation from God Almighty only, not from anybodyelse. it is that simple. I believe all those, who believe in God Almighty, are saved. This is where, you don't have to point a finger to the moon. Just look at it direct.

From you: "This is why many Christian believe Islam to be Satanic in origin.  Satan in already defeated, it's just a matter of time.  Those in Christ are already saved.  All his effort is undone with Christ, that is why it is first priority to keep people from believing the good news.  If people try to lead good lives (as muslims are supposed to), yet reject salvation through Christ (which muslims do), then Satan is victorious in their lives.   But in Christ Satan is defeated."

It is our duty to tell the Christians and others that all religions before Islam were attacked and infected by Satan, the Master Virus. In fact, we can say that Satan has been defeated by Islam with it's open and blaringly loud declaration "There is no other god/God but only One God, the Lord Almighty". Satan will never be pleased with this declaration.  He has given up on Islam.

I must tell you something interesting here, that almost a hundred times or may be more, every day, every Muslim, recites this: "I seek refuge in Allah, the Lord Almighty only, to  keep away this kicked-out/cursed Satan."   Believe me, he dares not sway our Faith and Belief in the One God, the Lord Almighty!

BMZ



 



Edited by bmzsp
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Quote pauline35 Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2007 at 10:20am
Dear BMZ, you said "It is our duty to tell the Christians and others that all religions before Islam were attacked and infected by Satan, the Master Virus.",

Pauline questioned : What I don't understand is that how other religions have infected by Satan when Osama Bin Laden, an Islamist is the one who has been infected by satan to carry out satanic attack? As we all know, Osama is a greatly devoted to Islam. He does fasting on Monday and Thursday as what Prophet Mohammed(pbuh) did. Don't get me wrong, I am not against Islam's dotrine.

You said again : In fact, we can say that Satan has been defeated by Islam with it's open and blaringly loud declaration "There is no other god/God but only One God, the Lord Almighty". Satan will never be pleased with this declaration. He has given up on Islam.",

Pauline questioned : I just don't see how the Satan has been defeated by Islam through its declaration? Christianity also declare that only ONE GOD AND JESUS IS THE SON OF THE LORD.

You have to do better than this because I doubt Josh would understand.




Edited by pauline35
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