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|Topic: Jinns: spirits or aliens of space? Both?|
Joined: 17 November 2006
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| Topic: Jinns: spirits or aliens of space? Both?
Posted: 17 November 2006 at 8:46pm
OTHER FORMS OF INTELLIGENT LIFE? (Allah knows best)
4:133 "If it were His will, He could destroy you, o mankind, and create another race; for He hath power this to do."
17:99 "See they not that Allah, Who created the heavens and the Earth, has power to create the like of them? And He has decreed for them an appointed term, whereof there is no doubt. But the unjust refuse but disbelief."
According to Islam humans are not "image of God" like Bible teaches us. In the beginning (1:2) Koran says "Praise be to Allah, the cherisher and sustainer of the WORLDS". In Koran Allah has created us and "(other) things of which you have no knowledge" (16:8). Humans are not said to be created first, before us Allah created "jinns", which sound like other species in space (all those yet unknown for us?), some of them live in same world (universe/earth) with us, some of them even eat same food as us, are invisible (by technology?) or can be seen, are good and bad, and some resemble humans, even have intelligence (not all of the jinns are said to do or be so, but at least some or many of them):
55:15-16 "And He created jinns from fire free of smoke: Then which of the favors of your Lord will ye deny?"
72:6-12 "(jinns said:) ´True, there were persons among mankind who took shelter with persons among the jinns, but they increased them into further error. And they (came to) think as ye thought, that Allah would not raise up any one (to judgment). And we pried into the (secrets of) heaven (/we have sought to reach the heaven); but we found it filled with stern guards and flaming fires. We used, indeed, to sit there in stations, to (steal) a hearing; but any who listens now will find a flaming fire watching him in ambush. And we understand not whether evil is intended to THOSE ON EARTH, on whether their Lord (really) intends to guide them to right conduct. There are among us some that are righteous, and some the contrary: we follow divergent paths. But we think that we can by no means frustrate Allah throughout the earth, not can we ESCAPE Him BY FLIGHT.` "
Jinns are told to be created from "fire without smoke" before humans. When you think where fire does not have any smoke, it is in space without any oxygen. There is huge "torches" (of Koran), stars that are in constant state of burning and fire, and (without oxygen) there is no smoke. When first stars exploded, all material for planets and even for us were born, so would not any possible alien-species be also from the stars? Wideness of description from creation, unlike with humans (water/clay/semen), makes it possible that in space can be all kind of alien-life, not just carbon or water based, as all material has come from stars, that is probably why Allah took first stars as point in their creation, as creation from water is definitely valid to describe life on earth, but for all planets it might not fit. Jinns have been traditionally understand by interpretation as "spirits" or "ghosts", but from their description we have a hint from other more developed civilizations, which have for example capability to fly, to travel with developed ways (even among us unnoticed, f.ex. invisible or as a human/animals according to hadiths, in hadiths jinns are also said to live on same world with us, in same universe or even some on same planet, but not ALL jinns are said to mach these descriptions, they are just general descriptions about [some of] them, because such interpretation that all jinns are on earth is in contradiction to parts of Koran where is talked about flight and passing of borders of heavens by jinns). Jinns are even told to have been sitting on borders of heaven (universe) seeking way to get ("hear"=search for information, with radio waves?) pass it, but noticed that it can not be done. If there is nothing behind border, where to cross it? What kind of natural phenomena’s there could be close the border of heavens, universe and dimensions, where we can not get any information yet? "Guards" and "flames" (meteors and electric flows? Other dangerous flame-like phenomena’s? New-born or dead stars wondering in high speed without orbit around galaxy?)? So does jinns mean aliens, both the spirits and alien-creatures, or are spirits in fact alien-creatures? Jinns said (72:12) that they are not able to escape Allah even by flight, so is it not clear that they live or are (in future at least) capable of living outside our planet?
According to Islam satan (Iblis) was originally a "Jinn", who was promoted to an angel (and began rebellious, knowledge brings responsibility), even that points to a very long life and development with an invidual / species that finally got "promoted" clearly above his own level in "mega-evolution". In Koran (21:30) Allah said that He created “everything living” from water, but it may be only about species on earth (as ayat says “didn’t UNBELIEVERS know..” and "earth"), everything else can be classified as “jinns” who were created from (“fire without smoke”) stars long before possible evolution from water (or from other elements, as material for the planet came from the stars). It is only interpretation that “good and bad” jinns means that there is also Muslims and other religions (like Christians) among them, they might have their very own understanding, mission and judgment, as obedient angels do (who were created from light, so satan was clearly only jinn promoted to an angel, although there is possibility that all or some other jinns were already originally created to be fallen angels, satans, and so from "fire without smoke").
14:19-20 "Do you not see that Allah has created the heavens and the earth with truth? If He wills, He can remove you and bring (in your place) a new creation! And for Allah that is not hard or difficult."
42:29 "And among His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the living creatures He has scattered through them: And He has power to gather them (heavens & earth / creatures) together when He wills."
We are young species, and with all probability there is lot more older species (intelligent creatures) than us, even though habitable planets would be even more rare than we think, it is VERY BIG space. These creatures also act (knowingly/unknowingly/accidentally) according to will of Allah (even used as tools or instruments by Him), that has been defined when the rules of nature have been decided and created. Rules of nature by Allah dictate also everything happening here, even us, because it has made us what we are. And Allah can also put humans and other species to meet when He wills. He can also create through us new species as robots, which could be also understand as “jinns” (metal on them is created in stars before fire). It would still be creation of Allah, as He created us and ordained all that we will do:
6:101 "To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth: How can He have a son when He hath no consort? He created all things, and He hath full knowledge of all things."
"Primal origin of creation" is that even if man or jinns would create even planets, Allah is real creator behind it, as He created them before it to do so.
55:33 "O ye assembly of jinns and men! If it be ye can pass beyond the zones of the heavens and the earth, pass ye! Not without authority (/permission) shall ye be able to pass!"
Here is also hint that "jinns" have been able for space-travel before humans. Fact is, that if we will not get to other planets soon, we will be extinct species sooner or later. If we are able to pass atmosphere of our planet or border of universe, then we have had permission for it. For Muslims living in space would be easier, pilgrimage to Mecca is not necessary if there is no change for it, and in prayer it is possible to bow in any direction when no certainty about direction.
evidence behalf of Koran is that it does not declare that each and everyone of
us is going to die on earth, in this planet, but will leave it open that are we
going to travel on other planets as we now see might be possible someday,
although Koran speaks generally (many times as quotes of other than Allah)
about humans living/who lived here and about general life in here, which will
not lose its meaning even for generations possibly on other planets as home of
mankind. Mars could be easily and quickly habituated by giant domes build on lopes
of mountains, where circulation of water (brought by pipes from northern polar
cap) would go from lake/sea in the bottom of dome to upper hills of mountain,
raining down (even as snow on top) and forming rivers coming back to lake/sea
under it. This could be done also on mountains on Earth above clouds in case of
nuclear winter (nuclear war/meteor). Destruction of Columbia-shuttle (with for
example former fighter pilot of Israel, who were leading attack on Iraq
nuclear-facility in 1981) in 1.2.2003 has its own message, as war on Iraq were
already decided on that time, it urges mankind to do more co-operation on
space-programs, and reserve of now 1,5-1,7 billion Muslims is far too large to
be wasted. Muslim dominated
6:100 "Yet they make the jinns equals with Allah, though Allah did create the Jinns; and they falsely, having no knowledge, attribute to Him sons and daughters. Praise and glory be to Him! (for He is) above what they attribute to Him!"
In Koran is already answer for beliefs that other species from space would be responsible for religions (Hindus and Christians? WHY??) and birth of humans (proved by evolution, would have been VERY slow unnecessary process for other than God).
72:11,13-15 "There are among us some that are righteous, and some the contrary: we follow divergent paths.".."And as for us, since we have listened to the Guidance, we have accepted it: and any who believes in his Lord has no fear, either of a short (account) or of any injustice. Amongst us are some that submit their wills (to Allah), and some that swerve from justice. Now those who submit their wills - they have sought out (the path) of right conduct: But those who swerve,- they are (but) fuel for Hell-fire´-"
6:130 "O ye assembly of Jinns and men! came there not unto you messengers from amongst you, setting forth unto you My signs, and warning you of the meeting of this Day of yours?" They will say: "We bear witness against ourselves." It was the life of this world that deceived them. So against themselves will they bear witness that they rejected Faith."
So there are those who reject fate (by choose if knowledge/intellectuality) brought to them on jinns (by their own prophets?), and those who have accepted it. If they are moving around universe (if I remember correct, even in hadiths is mentions about them visiting on different planets), message can be brought for them even for another planet to find. Allah only knows, Arabic words on Koran could have also another meaning on some other language, maybe that is why Allah said that we will never understand all from Koran. Maybe that is reason if aliens are "studying" us as claimed by some. That would ensure also that Koran will not vanish, even if mankind would, memorization of Koran might not be limited for mankind, it can be traveling with telepathic skills, at least Koran is traveling on radio transmissions by humans in space, and even we were raised from early human-like (so who is coming here after us? Notice how near to 6:130) :
6:133 "Thy Lord is self-sufficient, full of Mercy: if it were His will, He could destroy you, and in your place appoint whom He will as your successors, even as He raised you up from the posterity of other people."
,24-25 "O Adam! dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden, and enjoy (its good things) as ye wish: but approach not this tree, or ye run into harm and transgression."... "(Allah) said: "Get ye down. With enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood,- for a time.". He said: "Therein shall ye live, and therein shall ye die; but from it shall ye be taken out (at last)."
Here is one of the great miracles in Koran. Only Adam and Hawwa (Eve) is said to die on earth, but NO ONE ELSE OR MANKIND IS NOT SAID DIRECTLY TO DIE ON EARTH, although it could have appeared certain for people living long time ago. Of course, Koran is words of Allah mostly for Mohammed and people of his time (fitting also with people after that through understanding of that time), so even interpretations of such that humans would die on earth will fit without problems. Descriptions about earth and mankind in it (in other parts) is almost like from traveling advertisement, description about life and living (and dying) on earth on early days of mankind, as these years on earth will not certainly lose importance even on distant future on far away planets as a birthplace of mankind. This is confirmed here:
31:034 "Verily the knowledge of the Hour is with Allah (alone). It is He Who sends down rain, and He Who knows what is in the wombs. Nor does any one know what it is that he will earn on the morrow: NOR DOES ANY ONE KNOW IN WHAT LAND HE IS TO DIE. Verily with Allah is full knowledge and He is acquainted (with all things)."
We can always try to guess where we are going to die, but no certain knowledge we have from it. Even if some would decide not to move from his country anywhere until he dies, he can not know if aliens from space or other humans are going to come to get him, for certain.
Here is some earlier mentioned descriptions about earth as in "traveling advertisement" (for interplanetary traveling):
57:4 ".........He knows what enters within the earth and what comes forth out of it, what comes down from heaven and what mounts up to it. And He is with you wheresoever ye may be. And Allah sees well all that ye do."
40:64 "It is Allah Who has made for you the earth as a resting place, and the sky as a canopy, and has given you shape- and made your shapes beautiful,- and has provided for you Sustenance, of things pure and good;- such is Allah your Lord. So Glory to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds!"
67:15 "It is He Who has made the earth manageable for you, so traverse ye through its tracts and enjoy of the Sustenance which He furnishes: but unto Him is the Resurrection."
"One day the earth will be changed to a different earth, and so will be the heavens, and (men) will be marshalled forth, before Allah, the One, the Irresistible;"
Although this part told most likely about Judgment Day (different than judgment, before it and we can not know time scale), it could also hint for living on other planets (where even constellations of stars look different on heavens), maybe it is reality on this Judgment Day when all people (except "people without knowledge", young and mentally limited) are required for accepting Islam (when Islam and Koran is so spread that no other member of other religions can not avoid it, even from intelligent species in space, and when Koran has been proven totally accurate on all ways as said on 41:53 "Soon will We show them our Signs in the [furthest] regions [of the earth], and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?").
This "marshalled forth" can be happening on long time scale as people and planets die and pass away, until all is finished and they finally get their punishment or reward they have been waiting (on their graves or elsewhere after destruction of planet, resurrection is anyway happening even our atoms were scattered all over galaxy), descriptions about judgment and punishments are only after this part, so this could be early part of the "day" (that could be billions of years).
14:43 "They running forward with necks outstretched, their heads uplifted, their gaze returning not towards them, and their hearts a (gaping) void!"
Yes, this is earlier than , but there is clear distinction and cap between them as Allah is for example speaking about messengers in couple of parts. So this could also describe both judgment or that "Day" () before it. Some scientists believe that humans evolution will eventually lead us with body similar as space-aliens are described to have, big head with long neck and thin foots and arms, also genetic engineering will be very likely (maybe destroying religious part from our brains, causing this "void in hearts"). On that judgment they as well might have same long neck, and "heart full of emptiness" as going to be judged, no light and so no gaze (or when brains are just too big not to even care about Allah). So this part also may have dual meanings. Warnings of risks might well carry on, along describing judgment:
"O ye People of the Book! believe in what We have (now) revealed, confirming what was (already) with you, before We change the face and fame of some (of you) beyond all recognition, and turn them hind wards, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath-breakers, for the decision of Allah Must be carried out."
This might be about Judgment. But who knows, maybe "aliens" visiting here are us from future, "beyond recognition". Description about fire that can be put down by water or earth may say that humans have advance, maybe it is our bigger willing to believe or our feelings (genetic engineering changed jinns?) that gives us advantage in some things.
27:65 "Say: None in the heavens or on earth, except Allah, knows what is hidden: nor can they perceive when they shall be raised up (for Judgment)."
Finally ending this section, here is possibly a question inside answer:
"Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not."
Why "vicegerent" on earth? Koran only mentions Adam as first VICEGERENT on earth, there is no denying that same kind of human-like species could exist on other planets, or that other kinds of earlier human-like species were created earlier (who were not "vicegerent", maybe because they were unable to be it due lack of some properties like higher intelligent). How did angels know properties of man as Allah made Adam to teach to them all names of things in human-language, and angels said () they know nothing that Allah has not given them? For me it hints that human species (Adam) might not have started from earth, but from other planet(s) (with different language), as it is said also in other part () for Adam and Eve that "get ye down" (from paradise?). If that is the case (it might just be speaking unliterally or with descriptioning way, about expulsion from paradise-like state of mind and being on earth already, as earth and obviously paradise too is said to be created/opened again later elsewhere on Koran, and Koran has been with Allah even before Adam), and 3:59 "The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: ´Be´. And he was." has a meaning that as Jesus was from womb of woman and so was Adam (all parts of their semen eventually originating from organic materials from ground of any planet, "dust"), then body of Adam before receiving its spirit from paradise may have been (as genetically engineered to fit) implanted into womb of woman (as Jesus was implanted by Allah) from earlier human species to speed up evolution by Allah (perhaps using as a tool some like angels or some other ways, as still Allah would be one to orchestrate and organize everything as creator of them and as all knowing and almighty their actions too), as most likely also Jesus was implanted to his mother by Allah as a SEMEN, as all living things need to grow from somewhere (it does not matter was he created as semen or embryo). Notice, even though Allah would have created semen inside mother of Jesus, it would not make Allah as biological father of Jesus as Christians almost claim Him to be.
Edited by ABDUL-RAHMAN
Joined: 22 September 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
|Posted: 18 November 2006 at 11:50pm|
You know this is a very interesting point of view! The things you say make a lot of sense. It opens up a whole new understanding of things mentioned in Qur'an and sheds light on deeper meaning than just face value. I think too many people take what is said in Qur'an too literal and do not stop to think that the Lord Almighty is intelligent beyond our imagination! He speaks to us in ways to open up our minds and allow our intelligece to guide us in the search of what cannot be concieved of using simple thinking.
You definitely have opened up my mind broader than I thought possible. I'm not sure if you saw the video on the home page of islamicity entitled "The Secret Beyond Matter." It also brings a new perspective on our existence. The only thing I did not like about the video is that it did not include any citations from Qur'an to aid in the explanation of the proposed theory.
Joined: 17 March 2005
Online Status: Offline
|Posted: 21 November 2006 at 2:14pm|
Okayee, but there was a nice endorsement there for Koolaid and Nike shoes.
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Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com