Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Refutation of Dr. Zakir Naik Post Reply Post New Topic
Page  of 2 Next >>
Author Message
bharatiya
 
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 April 2005
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 157
Quote bharatiya Replybullet Topic: Refutation of Dr. Zakir Naik
    Posted: 27 April 2005 at 8:21am
I think most of my fellow members know who Zakir is...

He is a Dawa in India...

His home page is here.

I am an Indian Hindu.  So had a good reading about his Comparitive Religion(with respect Hinduism) which can be found here.

I want to point some things.

The basis of so called 'hinduism' is One 'God'.  But for hindus It has no gender.  So we call It as 'That', 'It' etc.  Sometimes when translated to english we say 'Him'.  We call It Brahman.

Mind you... there are three similar words with different meaning.

Brahman = Allah

Brahma   = Khaaliq

Brahmin  = Imam(priest)

1. Mr. Zakir mistook Brahman to be Brahma and says that we worship Khaaliq and not Allah.

2. Mr. Zakir was pointing to Vishnu(Rabb) as ultimate Hindu 'god' which is not true.

3. Mr. Zakir doesn't know Sanskrit and studied vedas from a tertiary source(some of them even written by english scholars).

4. Hinduism is not all the same everywhere(except for the concept of Brahman(Allah)).  And most of them pray the so called 'gods' and all the temples exist of these 'gods'.

There is no temple of Brahman as Mr. Zakir himself points out, "There is no image of Him."  "He is bodyless and pure."

And lastly, Mr. Zakir tells us that 'Hinduism' is an offshoot of Islam(lol, cheerio).

In his own words,
"The Prophecy confirms:
i.  The name of Prophet as Ahmed since Ahmed is an Arabic name.  Many translators misunderstood it to be "Ahm at hi" and translated the mantra as "I alone has acquired the real wisdom of my father."

ii.  Prophet was given the eternal law, i.e. the Shariah.

iii. The Rishi was enlightened by the Shariah of the Prophet Muhammad.  The Quran says in the Surah Saba chapter 34 verse 28(34:28)

"We have not seen thee...""

Well to start with, its not "ahm at hi", but "Aham adir hi", which means "I am(Brahman) the origin(of everything)."

And to Zakir, there are not one but many rishis(sages) in India.

Mr. Zakir, being my fellow Indian, don't you know how old Hindu philosophy is???

Another thing, its true that there is no definite date officially given to the compilation of Vedas.  The research process is still on.  Soon the world will know how old are Vedas.  And we celebrate the birthdays of so called 'gods'(who are actually humans just like the Prophet) since thousands of years.  This, I think, even Zakir knows.

Zakir also says that its not 'Hinduism' but Islam to be the oldest.  Well nothing to say about it as everyone knows the truth.  I dont say 'hinduism' is the best religion.  But its the best for some people, just like Islam is best for some mindsets and Christianity is best for some other mindsets.  Paths may be different, but the goal is same.

Pity on you, you muslim chauvinists...




Edited by bharatiya
THE SOIL OF BHARAT IS MY HIGHEST HEAVEN, THE GOOD OF BHARAT IS MY GOOD.
IP IP Logged
Israfil
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 September 2003
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3984
Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 27 April 2005 at 4:41pm

Bharatiya God's Blessings and peace be upon you,

After reading your refutation I totally agree with your presentation and how you assrted yourself. I am guilty in saying that I'm unfamiliar with Zakir and I will make more of an effort to read and understand him through his website (if it is intellectually possible). I also want to note that as a Philosophy/Philosopher student  have been blessed enough to experience the diversity in religion and to be exposed to religious institutions. I just want to point out that the foundation of what Hinduism stands for is widely misunderstood by all people not just Muslims. Of course from the outside looking in many Muslims as well as other adherents of faiths would certainly misundertood Hinduism and overlook its monotheistic core.

I have read certain books that briefly talked about Hinduism and read some hymns based on some of the sacred text. Even though Hinduism has its monotheistic roots you have to understand that in the Muslim mind when looking at various spiritual figures apart from God (i.e. idols) people will interpret that as a form of polytheistic worship. In conclusion you definitely have a good response and I hope we can bring to light the relationship between Muslims and Hindus...

IP IP Logged
bharatiya
 
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 April 2005
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 157
Quote bharatiya Replybullet Posted: 27 April 2005 at 8:57pm
Asalam walaikum Israfil!

I come from a country which has world's second largest Muslim population, world's largest Sikh population and around 40 million Christian population.  After all these years in my life, I found that if we have to live, we have to live together.

But as you well know, because of all these 'hindu', Muslim and Christian fundamentalists, we are unable to live a good life.
THE SOIL OF BHARAT IS MY HIGHEST HEAVEN, THE GOOD OF BHARAT IS MY GOOD.
IP IP Logged
Israfil
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 September 2003
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3984
Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 28 April 2005 at 6:00pm
Yes you have point out some facts that it is those who have
extreme views hinder the beautiful horizon of God's plane yes
indeed.
IP IP Logged
bharatiya
 
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 April 2005
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 157
Quote bharatiya Replybullet Posted: 28 April 2005 at 10:49pm
Salam Israfil!

Most of what we see in the world happens due to political reasons than real...
THE SOIL OF BHARAT IS MY HIGHEST HEAVEN, THE GOOD OF BHARAT IS MY GOOD.
IP IP Logged
Shams Zaman
Male Islam
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 March 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 135
Quote Shams Zaman Replybullet Posted: 30 April 2005 at 12:27pm

Hello Dear Bharatiya

I have been very regularly listening to Mr. Zakir Naik. At least 3 of his debates were covering the Hinduism in detail. These were:-

1. Concept of God in major religions.

2. Universal Brotherhood.

3. Similarities between Islam and Hinduism.

So if you had an opportunity to listen to these you must have observed that a great numbers of Hindus were present at that time as well. At least a few hundred in the first two debates and a few thousand in the third one. So once he was quoting from Hindu scriptures he quoted the verses in Sanskrit and its translation in English. None of the Hindu sitting there contradicted him. Why?

There can be only two possibilities that he was quoting right (as these translations were of the Hindu pundits and not of his own team) or if he was wrong all the Hindus sitting there were ignorant of the Sanskrit and believed in what he said.

So if none of the Hindu can understand the Sanskrit or the Hindu scriptures why to accuse Zakir of not knowing Sanskrit. Of course he has no mastery over Sanskrit but he knows of it at least to deduce sense out of it, which most Hindus even don't know.

Regarding your saying that all religions lead to one objective this is totally wrong. All religions mostly preach good things but they don't lead to one objective. It's just like two sons of a father given equal status of which one is obedient while other refuses to accept his father as father. How can they be equal? Similarly one who worships one God can't be of like those who worship hundreds. One for sure is grossly wrong and will have to suffer for his deeds.

Hinduism is not classically a RELIGION like of any other religion. Whether you believe in one God or thousand or even do not believe in God you still remain a Hindu. You go to temple or simply refute all the forms of worship you still are Hindu. You whether draw figures / make idols of the Hindu gods or simply refuse to accept them you remain a Hindu.

What is really essential for a man to be a Hindu? Just to be born in Hindu family? So its more of a cultural dress having multiple and diverse paths of superstitious myths, whit no real religious codes to follow. Caste system, animal worship, considering their waste as sacred etc are the most humiliating and un-hygienic rituals established in the Hinduism, and once you find no justification for that you simply have to refute a person who is calling you to the truth and challenges you to bring forth any logic or proof for denial. 

Shams Zaman     Pakistan.

 

 

smszmn72@yahoo.cm
IP IP Logged
bharatiya
 
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 April 2005
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 157
Quote bharatiya Replybullet Posted: 30 April 2005 at 9:45pm
Originally posted by Shams Zaman

So if you had an opportunity to listen to these you must have observed that a great numbers of Hindus were present at that time as well. At least a few hundred in the first two debates and a few thousand in the third one.



'hindus' do not consider 'hinduism' to be the ultimate religion.  The core of 'hinduism' is Spirituality.  Even I listen to the Quran on the Q TV.  I listen to what the Father says at our local Church.  Whatever gives us peace, is sufficient.


So once he was quoting from Hindu scriptures he quoted the verses in Sanskrit and its translation in English. None of the Hindu sitting there contradicted him. Why?


Because they were not present their for contradicting.  And if I were sitting their and I were to contradict him, who would listen to me?


I really want to meet Mr. Zakir.  Hope I can get an appointment when I go to Mumbai and discuss it.  But I hate to defend 'hinduism'

There can be only two possibilities that he was quoting right (as these translations were of the Hindu pundits and not of his own team) or if he was wrong all the Hindus sitting there were ignorant of the Sanskrit and believed in what he said.


Well, he was not quoting right.  The second possibility is right.  All the 'hindus' sitting their were ignorant of what he was speaking.

So if none of the Hindu can understand the Sanskrit or the Hindu scriptures why to accuse Zakir of not knowing Sanskrit. Of course he has no mastery over Sanskrit but he knows of it at least to deduce sense out of it, which most Hindus even don't know.


I am accusing Mr. Zakir because he was misinterpretting and showing our scriptures in bad light.  Even if a 'hindu' misinterprets(most 'hindus' do misinterpret), I would accuse him.
You are right brother, majority dont know Sanskrit.  It is still said that, Sanskrit instead of Hindi should have been made our National Language.  And in near future Sanskrit, the mother of all Indian languages(including Urdu, Urdu has taken syllable from Sanskrit and script from Arabic) will become the National Language.


Regarding your saying that all religions lead to one objective this is totally wrong. All religions mostly preach good things but they don't lead to one objective. It's just like two sons of a father given equal status of which one is obedient while other refuses to accept his father as father. How can they be equal?


I dont want to prove you wrong.  I am not here to prove anyone wrong.


Similarly one who worships one God can't be of like those who worship hundreds.


You are right.  You mean to say 'hinduism' is a farce.  Yes it has been a farce, it is still a farce, and it will be a farce.  Do you have any problem?  We do not force you to idolatry nor we ask you to follow our religion.  Then whats the problem.


One for sure is grossly wrong and will have to suffer for his deeds.


Thats the basis of 'hinduism'.  If you do good, good will follow and if you do bad, bad will follow.


Hinduism is not classically a RELIGION like of any other religion.


Damn right brother.  No 'hindu' knows what "hindu" means.  But still uses the word.  I dont know why.


Whether you believe in one God or thousand or even do not believe in God you still remain a Hindu. You go to temple or simply refute all the forms of worship you still are Hindu. You whether draw figures / make idols of the Hindu gods or simply refuse to accept them you remain a Hindu.


'hinduism' is not a religion as you have said.  Our so called 'religion' doesn't have any name.  We never used the word 'hindu' until the first Muslim attacked Bharat.  But still we used to have that so called 'gods' and their 'idols'. 


For us, it used to be, a man is called an 'Asthik'(theist) if he believes and a 'Nasthik'(atheist) if he does not believe.  Thats all their was.

'hinduism' is a huge 'religion'.

What is really essential for a man to be a Hindu? Just to be born in Hindu family?


Many have asked me this question, "What is it essential to be a 'hindu'?" or "Who is a real follower of 'hinduism'?"

I dont have an answer buddy, because, I dont understand 'hinduism'.  No one ever thought of explaining or describing 'hinduism'.   What we understand is our Philosophy.  I am the follower of that Philosophy.


So its more of a cultural dress having multiple and diverse paths of superstitious myths, whit no real religious codes to follow.


You are right.  The present day 'hindus' are superstitious.  Most of them have been superstitious since the medieval times.


Caste system, animal worship, considering their waste as sacred etc are the most humiliating and un-hygienic rituals established in the Hinduism,


No defence or offence(I am tired of explaining to everyone)


...and once you find no justification for that you simply have to refute a person who is calling you to the truth and challenges you to bring forth any logic or proof for denial.


 And what  "truth"  is it?  You  believe  in submission  to Allah.  So be it.  We believe in  realisation .  We believe in reason.  Our ancestors have asked us not to believe blindly(which few follow in modern India).  They asked us to reason out everything.


Peace and Love.


Kumar

 

 

THE SOIL OF BHARAT IS MY HIGHEST HEAVEN, THE GOOD OF BHARAT IS MY GOOD.
IP IP Logged
Shams Zaman
Male Islam
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 March 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 135
Quote Shams Zaman Replybullet Posted: 01 May 2005 at 12:20pm

Dear Kumar

I am simply asking you that once you know a lot is wrong in the Hindu Philosphy then why you follow it?

And what  "truth"  is it?  You  believe  in submission  to Allah.  So be it.  We believe in  realisation .  We believe in reason.  Our ancestors have asked us not to believe blindly(which few follow in modern India).  They asked us to reason out everything.

What reason is this once you know there is some thing terribly wrong with Hinduism and it also lacks religious dimension why to follow it? Which is this logic. And what is the purpose of live you have no concept of divine punishment so how does one get one. Only by becoming a lower specie animal no one has claimed to be one yet? And neither the population of the animals has grown as so many dead humans change their form to animals but rather most species are at the verge of extint. And once you yourself has not read the Hindu scriptures how can you say the other one qouting is wrong?

I will certainly agree that you must meet Zakir and if he is quoting wrong you must tell him to stop. Because no one has the right to quote wrong but if he is not wrong I will certainly like to listen to your view point. 

Lets suppose if I am wrong then should I continue like this or if you are wrong should you continue like this? Surely I am not responsible for deeds of anyone else but as as a fellow human I must try to save others from suffering a huge loss.    

Shams Zaman   Pakistan.

smszmn72@yahoo.cm
IP IP Logged
Page  of 2 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com