IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Is there an Islamic response to John 3?

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StephenC

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Posted: 09 November 2006 at 4:46am

Originally posted by air_one

Originally posted by StephenC

One of my main points is that it really doesn't matter - it is the worship of God that is important not the status of the various messengers!

How?

Will God really leave it up to his creation to decide how He will be worshipped?

Will God accept His creations' logical thinking on what is good (allowed) and what is evil (sins)?

God has allowed numerous false prophets in the past and present.

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StephenC

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Posted: 09 November 2006 at 4:51am

Originally posted by ysimjee

A few good statements made.

But to the ones that don’t know, the bible has been chance to sooth the lifestyle of the Christians in this time n era. If they read the original old testament they would find that pork n drinking of wine is also not permitted.

As for the Jewish Torah, they refused to accept that Muhammad (saw) was the last prophet of Allah just because he was n Arab and not from them.

But the Quran does not state that Muhammand was the last prophet. I believe that is something Muhammad claimed in his last sermon. Previously did not he claim (in the QURAN) that he was merely an apostle?

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Angel

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Posted: 09 November 2006 at 5:04am

Originally posted by StephenC

Stephen, please go to the thread: Basic Islamic Questions, in islam for nonmuslims, where I have posted answered, yes the qu'ran does state so and it is Allah that has said. Please continue about the qu'ran there or the other thread you made about it

Edited by Angel

[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~

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Cyril

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Posted: 09 November 2006 at 9:02am

Originally posted by ysimjee

But to the ones that don’t know, the bible has been chance to sooth the lifestyle of the Christians in this time n era. If they read the original old testament they would find that pork n drinking of wine is also not permitted.

I don't think that drinking of wine was forbidden in the Old Testament.

The taboo on eating pork was abandoned because of the numerous non-Jews entering Christianity and as a protest against religion becoming too ritualistic. Jesus said that it is not the eating of pork that makes people impure but the evil thinking that comes out of the mind.

As for the Jewish Torah, they refused to accept that Muhammad (saw) was the last prophet of Allah just because he was n Arab and not from them

Ridiculous. It was because they had a complete religion and the Quran did not bring anything new to them.

Would you accept that Baha'is invite you to acknowledge that their religion is the continuation and final revelation of God to replace Islam?

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Redneck

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Posted: 09 November 2006 at 10:25am

Cyril wrote:

Jesus( sallahu alayhe wassalam) contradicts this hear........

Matthew 5:17-20

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

It wasn't Jesus(sallahu alayhe wassalam) who relaxed the laws but he people. When he said "it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a man but what comes out of it" a person could hardly construe that as a command from him to repeal the law against eating pork.

"One Nation Under Allah"

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Cyril

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Posted: 09 November 2006 at 11:35am

Originally posted by Redneck

Jesus( sallahu alayhe wassalam) contradicts this hear........

Matthew 5:17-20

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

This is one of the contradictions of Christianity. Let's find a Christian to explain it.

It wasn't Jesus(sallahu alayhe wassalam) who relaxed the laws but the people. When he said "it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a man but what comes out of it" a person could hardly construe that as a command from him to repeal the law against eating pork.

For me it is a good start for repealing.

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Reepicheep

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Posted: 09 November 2006 at 8:40pm

There are no passages in the bible where wine is forbidden. And, if you check out Mark 7:19, you will read:

Thus he (Jesus) declared all foods clean.

So obviously, Christians are not required to follow Old Testament dietary laws.

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ysimjee

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Posted: 10 November 2006 at 12:04am

Find the origenal text of the Bible and Torah.

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Topic: Is there an Islamic response to John 3?
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Author	Message
StephenC Guest Group Joined: 16 September 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 264	Posted: 09 November 2006 at 4:46am
	*Originally posted by air_one* *Originally posted by StephenC* One of my main points is that it really doesn't matter - it is the worship of God that is important not the status of the various messengers! How? Will God really leave it up to his creation to decide how He will be worshipped? Will God accept His creations' logical thinking on what is good (allowed) and what is evil (sins)? God has allowed numerous false prophets in the past and present.
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StephenC Guest Group Joined: 16 September 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 264	Posted: 09 November 2006 at 4:51am
	*Originally posted by ysimjee* A few good statements made. But to the ones that don’t know, the bible has been chance to sooth the lifestyle of the Christians in this time n era. If they read the original old testament they would find that pork n drinking of wine is also not permitted. As for the Jewish Torah, they refused to accept that Muhammad (saw) was the last prophet of Allah just because he was n Arab and not from them. But the Quran does not state that Muhammand was the last prophet. I believe that is something Muhammad claimed in his last sermon. Previously did not he claim (in the QURAN) that he was merely an apostle?
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Angel Senior Member Joined: 03 July 2001 Online Status: Offline Posts: 6626	Posted: 09 November 2006 at 5:04am
	*Originally posted by StephenC* But the Quran does not state that Muhammand was the last prophet. I believe that is something Muhammad claimed in his last sermon. Previously did not he claim (in the QURAN) that he was merely an apostle? Stephen, please go to the thread: Basic Islamic Questions, in islam for nonmuslims, where I have posted answered, yes the qu'ran does state so and it is Allah that has said. Please continue about the qu'ran there or the other thread you made about it Edited by Angel
	[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Cyril Senior Member Joined: 08 May 2006 Location: France Online Status: Offline Posts: 176	Posted: 09 November 2006 at 9:02am
	*Originally posted by ysimjee* But to the ones that don’t know, the bible has been chance to sooth the lifestyle of the Christians in this time n era. If they read the original old testament they would find that pork n drinking of wine is also not permitted. I don't think that drinking of wine was forbidden in the Old Testament. The taboo on eating pork was abandoned because of the numerous non-Jews entering Christianity and as a protest against religion becoming too ritualistic. Jesus said that it is not the eating of pork that makes people impure but the evil thinking that comes out of the mind. As for the Jewish Torah, they refused to accept that Muhammad (saw) was the last prophet of Allah just because he was n Arab and not from them Ridiculous. It was because they had a complete religion and the Quran did not bring anything new to them. Would you accept that Baha'is invite you to acknowledge that their religion is the continuation and final revelation of God to replace Islam?
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Redneck Newbie Joined: 08 November 2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 32	Posted: 09 November 2006 at 10:25am
	Cyril wrote: I don't think that drinking of wine was forbidden in the Old Testament. The taboo on eating pork was abandoned because of the numerous non-Jews entering Christianity and as a protest against religion becoming too ritualistic. Jesus said that it is not the eating of pork that makes people impure but the evil thinking that comes out of the mind. ( end of quote) Jesus( sallahu alayhe wassalam) contradicts this hear........ Matthew 5:17-20 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. It wasn't Jesus(sallahu alayhe wassalam) who relaxed the laws but he people. When he said "it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a man but what comes out of it" a person could hardly construe that as a command from him to repeal the law against eating pork.
	"One Nation Under Allah"
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Cyril Senior Member Joined: 08 May 2006 Location: France Online Status: Offline Posts: 176	Posted: 09 November 2006 at 11:35am
	*Originally posted by Redneck* Jesus( sallahu alayhe wassalam) contradicts this hear........ Matthew 5:17-20 *17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18* For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. This is one of the contradictions of Christianity. Let's find a Christian to explain it. It wasn't Jesus(sallahu alayhe wassalam) who relaxed the laws but the people. When he said "it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a man but what comes out of it" a person could hardly construe that as a command from him to repeal the law against eating pork. For me it is a good start for repealing.
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Reepicheep Senior Member Joined: 06 November 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 235	Posted: 09 November 2006 at 8:40pm
	There are no passages in the bible where wine is forbidden. And, if you check out Mark 7:19, you will read: Thus he (Jesus) declared all foods clean. So obviously, Christians are not required to follow Old Testament dietary laws.
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ysimjee Groupie Joined: 08 November 2006 Location: South Africa Online Status: Offline Posts: 48	Posted: 10 November 2006 at 12:04am
	Find the origenal text of the Bible and Torah.
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